Thai senate rejects disputed amnesty bill

[webfact]

Thai senate rejects disputed amnesty bill
by Aidan Jones

BANGKOK, November 12, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand's senate unanimously rejected a contentious political amnesty bill on Monday night, as tens of thousands of anti-government protesters massed in Bangkok to try to heap pressure on Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

All 141 senators present voted to kick out the legislation, which the embattled premier has already pledged not to revive.

The vote is likely to embolden a range of anti-government forces who have gathered in large numbers on Bangkok's streets for nearly a fortnight.

"This house rejects this bill for consideration," deputy speaker Surachai Lengboonlertchai said of the legislation, which critics say was aimed at helping divisive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra -- Yingluck's brother -- return to Thailand from self-exile.

Thaksin is a hugely polarising figure in Thailand, drawing great support from the rural poor but hatred from many of the Bangkok middle and upper classes.

An estimated 50,000 protesters remained in the city's political centre on Monday night, according to police, heightening fears of clashes with authorities as street politics appeared to return to the capital.

The opposition Democrat Party has harnessed the growing anti-government sentiment, while experts say the bill has chastened the ruling Puea Thai party and weakened Yingluck's authority.

A spokesman for her party said the ruling coalition "would not bring this (bill) back to parliament", adding the opposition protests were now groundless.

"We believe from tomorrow the political crisis will start to ease as there are no reasons to maintain the protest," said Pormpong Nopparit.

But anti-government forces -- with the Democrats at the helm -- earlier vowed to keep up their mass rally.

In a tub-thumping speech to rapturous supporters, a key Democrat leader vowed to turn the heat on Yingluck's government and urged supporters to observe a three-day strike starting on Wednesday.

"I ask you to clear all your work tomorrow and then on 13, 14 and 15th (of November) we will stage a nationwide strike," former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban said to cheers of approval a few hours before the senate vote.

Thaksin was toppled by royalist generals in 2006. He lives in exile to avoid prison for a corruption conviction that he contends was politically motivated.

He would be excused of charges under the proposed blanket amnesty.

Suthep, who is facing murder charges related to a bloody crackdown on protests in 2010 when the Democrats were in power, would also be cleared under the proposal, alongside his party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Demonstrators, many waving Thai flags, blowing whistles and using plastic hand-clappers, were in a bullish mood before the vote.

"I came here to expel the Shin(awatra) family. I want them out," said one protester called Thamathorn, giving only one name. "Don't stay here and cheat this country. Get out!"

Rallies have so far been peaceful, but concerns were mounting that the issue could unleash a fresh bout of political turmoil in a country rocked by a series of rival demonstrations since 2006.

Thousands of police were deployed to protect Government House -- where Yingluck's offices are -- and parliament in case protests turn ugly, a police spokesman told AFP.

Police have tear gas, batons, rubber bullets and water cannon at their disposal, according to Police General Adul Saengsingkaew, but will only use "necessary force" to ensure a peaceful protest.

The senate debate coincided with a ruling by the International Court of Justice in The Hague which found that most of an area around an ancient temple on the Thai border belongs to Cambodia.

Any public anger in Thailand over the ICJ's decision is likely to be directed against the government by the country's opposition -- which includes some hardline nationalists among its supporters.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-11-12

[15Peter20]

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

Edited November 11, 2013 by 15Peter20

[Thait Spot]

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

I think the demonstrators could quite easily continue until the true losses of the rice scheme were transparently published, the 2.2T loan was dropped, the 350B flood scheme was brought under control etc.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

Some of the most interesting political decisions of the last 7 years were:

The 2006 snap election, 14 months into term with a large majority

the 2007 election where despite claimed popularity, vote-buying and bribery saw PPP disbanded

the subsequent decision not to seek another election

agitation and financing of the red shirts to commit sedition

the amnesty bill.

What do they all have in common? Thaksin's failure to see past his own political ambition and judge the feelings of the Thai electorate.

[JRSoul]

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

We only have Yingluk and Thaksin's word that the bill will not become law in 180 days, and that is worth SFA.

Are people not allowed to express anger at the hubris of a government prepared to foist an an amnesty on the country that was so obviously self-serving? Can't you see that this is corruption, especially when the WHOLE party is prepared to follow the orders of a fugitive convicted criminal?

[jucel]

This will be law in 180 days as the bill was not amended back. I'm pretty sure this can just go through the house in 180 days and not need the senates' approval. Can anybody clarify my simplistic view of the bill?

Edited November 11, 2013 by jucel

[blaze]

First JrSoul

The 'whole party' was NOT in favor of this amnesty-

If you think you don't l8ike it because it grants amnesty to someone who is repulsive to you

Imagine how welcome this is to the woman pushing her 25 year old kid around in a wheel chair for the rest of his life.

For all the virtriol and hatred for this bill on this website- just think- of the hatred for it among those who are paying REAL price- and that is probably not YOU.

Thaksin and his clowns learned this too late- but they aren't stupid-- in the cutthroat world of politics and business, yuou don't amass a fortune being thick headed --

And especially not in Thailand.

This shit has colors- beneath colors-

And above all, Thaksin wants to survive- and those officially holding the reins of power want to survive too- now we got a kind of conflict.

Save Taksin- and let the dream die?

Save Taksin and let the yahoos down south take our place at the trough?

Of F Thaksin--

And what do you think the reds who lost kids in that want? (we hear only about 90 odd killed- how many are permanantly mamimed?

no- the bi8ll is done- this government is done.. when the opposition's number two man walks out of the democratic process- the process is pretty much shot.

The only question now is- what next.

OH I know- a benevolent dictator- kind of like- Santa Clause- or Mussolini

Edited November 11, 2013 by blaze

[JRSoul]

First JrSoul

The 'whole party' was NOT in favor of this amnesty-

If you think you don't l8ike it because it grants amnesty to someone who is repulsive to you

Imagine how welcome this is to the woman pushing her 25 year old kid around in a wheel chair for the rest of his life.

For all the virtriol and hatred for this bill on this website- just think- of the hatred for it among those who are paying REAL price- and that is probably not YOU.

Thaksin and his clowns learned this too late- but they aren't stupid-- in the cutthroat world of politics and business, yuou don't amass a fortune being thick headed --

And especially not in Thailand.

This shit has colors- beneath colors-

And above all, Thaksin wants to survive- and those officially holding the reins of power want to survive too- now we got a kind of conflict.

Save Taksin- and let the dream die?

Save Taksin and let the yahoos down south take our place at the trough?

Of F Thaksin--

And what do you think the reds who lost kids in that want? (we hear only about 90 odd killed- how many are permanantly mamimed?

no- the bi8ll is done- this government is done.. when the opposition's number two man walks out of the democratic process- the process is pretty much shot.

The only question now is- what next.

OH I know- a benevolent dictator- kind of like- Santa Clause- or Mussolini

My apologies 310-0, with 4 gutless mongrels too scared to put their opposition stronger than an abstain, seemed close enough to the whole party.

You don't amass a fortune being thick-headed, but with a monopoly on the fastest growing industry in the world, a moron could do it.

Why don't you stop trying to playing the sympathy card for those who danced to the criminal's tune and discuss the level of self benefit from this bill, the conflict of interest, failure to recuse, and the corruption involved in voting on a bill that will drop your own criminal cases. Korkaew, for one, should have been arrested by now.

Edited November 11, 2013 by JRSoul

[waza]

The answer is to dissolve this ineffective government and let the electorate decide what party and what policies they want in a general election. Then in the interim a caretaker government can cancel the rice scam, amnesty scam ect ect and maybe save the treasury. Then everyone can be charged, and the truth will come out and the people can decide amnesty on a individual basis. A blanket amnesty leaves too many unanswered questions.

Edited November 12, 2013 by waza

[coma]

Game over on the amnesty bill. Next on the agenda.... Removing the Shinawatra family from Thai politics.

[MaxLee]

"This house rejects this bill for consideration," deputy speaker Surachai Lengboonlertchai said of the legislation, which critics say was aimed at helping divisive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra -- Yingluck's brother -- return to Thailand from self-exile.

Rejecting the bill "for consideration",... <- this sounds like to me like a small print of BUT BUT BUT behind closed doors.

Nothing in this country is ever guaranteed... so watch out

[blaze]

JRsoul

How I feel doesn't matter - not to me even- let alone my 'hosts'.

But how THEY feel will determine how this plays out.

I can say my feelings about Thaksin's alleged crimes but so what?

My point was simply that Thaksin has alienated his core.

And I think he knows that now- and for that reason-- there will be no further talk of amnesty- for anybody.

Surely the hostility from BOTH the red and the non-red camp will have taught him that even the affection he commanded from the hard cores is slipping away- and all thanks to this bill-

More important- the PTP, like all political parties, like the smell of power-- and I think that this will mark the beginning of a implosion.

And if continued power is the goal- then

thaksin must be sidelined.

Thaksin will be- I think, as a result of this bill, put to pasture.

And remember- having Thaksin back in the country does NOT gurantee an easy ride for his sycophants.

No-- I think it's going to be- 'well, we tried- but--- no hard feelings huh? Now we need to push a new promo scheme-'

[AngelsLariat]

The answer is to dissolve this ineffective government and let the electorate decide what party and what policies they want in a general election. Then in the interim a caretaker government can cancel the rice scam, amnesty scam ect ect and maybe save the treasury. Then everyone can be charged, and the truth will come out and the people can decide amnesty on a individual basis. A blanket amnesty leaves too many unanswered questions.

Do you mean call for a new election like Thaksin did in 2006? The main problem with that is that most likely the electorate would just vote Yingluck and the rest of the reds back in again.

Edited November 12, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[robblok]

The answer is to dissolve this ineffective government and let the electorate decide what party and what policies they want in a general election. Then in the interim a caretaker government can cancel the rice scam, amnesty scam ect ect and maybe save the treasury. Then everyone can be charged, and the truth will come out and the people can decide amnesty on a individual basis. A blanket amnesty leaves too many unanswered questions.

Do you mean call for a new election like Thaksin did in 2006? The main problem with that is that most likely the electorate would just vote Yingluck and the rest of the reds back in again.

Probably.. but their powerbase might be a lot weaker not a solid majority and stuff. They might have to actually rule and think of others then. Now they just steamroll it all through and disband any organisation they think holds them back.

[Neilly]

A spokesman for her party said the ruling coalition "would not bring this (bill) back to parliament", adding the opposition protests were now groundless.

I must be getting sceptical in my old age because I don’t believe a word of it...I’m sure there have been many Skype calls detailing what has to be done next.

[AngelsLariat]

The answer is to dissolve this ineffective government and let the electorate decide what party and what policies they want in a general election. Then in the interim a caretaker government can cancel the rice scam, amnesty scam ect ect and maybe save the treasury. Then everyone can be charged, and the truth will come out and the people can decide amnesty on a individual basis. A blanket amnesty leaves too many unanswered questions.

Do you mean call for a new election like Thaksin did in 2006? The main problem with that is that most likely the electorate would just vote Yingluck and the rest of the reds back in again.

Probably.. but their powerbase might be a lot weaker not a solid majority and stuff. They might have to actually rule and think of others then. Now they just steamroll it all through and disband any organisation they think holds them back.

That could backfire though. If a new election were held and the reds won by a similar margin as last time then they would proceed as if they had a mandate. And then what, another coup? Until the Dems figure out how to win a national election nothing fundamental changes.

[Thait Spot]

“This amnesty bill is still not dead, even though the Senate is voting to block the bill,” Suthep Thaugsuban, a former deputy prime minister with the opposition Democrat party, told supporters in Bangkok late yesterday. “The lower house can still bring back the law for approval again.”

Bloomberg - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-11/thai-senate-rejects-amnesty-bill-that-sparked-bangkok-protests.html

[ridkun]

This will be law in 180 days as the bill was not amended back. I'm pretty sure this can just go through the house in 180 days and not need the senates' approval. Can anybody clarify my simplistic view of the bill?

More precisely, with 20 MPs they can bring it back to another round of vote. If the house passed it this time, it would go for the King's approval, as the final step of every Thai laws, before the law become effective. I provide here only as information, please do not discuss the King's decision to comply with the board's rule.

[PeterSmiles]

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

And don't forget the most trustworthy promise of all, Santa Claus will bring presents for everyone on Christmas day.

[MaxLee]

Why do I have the feeling, that something backstabbing is in the air???

[robblok]

The answer is to dissolve this ineffective government and let the electorate decide what party and what policies they want in a general election. Then in the interim a caretaker government can cancel the rice scam, amnesty scam ect ect and maybe save the treasury. Then everyone can be charged, and the truth will come out and the people can decide amnesty on a individual basis. A blanket amnesty leaves too many unanswered questions.

Do you mean call for a new election like Thaksin did in 2006? The main problem with that is that most likely the electorate would just vote Yingluck and the rest of the reds back in again.

Probably.. but their powerbase might be a lot weaker not a solid majority and stuff. They might have to actually rule and think of others then. Now they just steamroll it all through and disband any organisation they think holds them back.

That could backfire though. If a new election were held and the reds won by a similar margin as last time then they would proceed as if they had a mandate. And then what, another coup? Until the Dems figure out how to win a national election nothing fundamental changes.

True, there are no garantees, the democrats. are my favorite but Id be the first to admit they are bad in attracting pp to vote for them. They don't offer enough bribes and such and they don't brainwash their constitute. I guess that is just a lot easier to do with dumb rice farmers.

[AngelsLariat]

Do you mean call for a new election like Thaksin did in 2006? The main problem with that is that most likely the electorate would just vote Yingluck and the rest of the reds back in again.

Probably.. but their powerbase might be a lot weaker not a solid majority and stuff. They might have to actually rule and think of others then. Now they just steamroll it all through and disband any organisation they think holds them back.

That could backfire though. If a new election were held and the reds won by a similar margin as last time then they would proceed as if they had a mandate. And then what, another coup? Until the Dems figure out how to win a national election nothing fundamental changes.

True, there are no garantees, the democrats. are my favorite but Id be the first to admit they are bad in attracting pp to vote for them. They don't offer enough bribes and such and they don't brainwash their constitute. I guess that is just a lot easier to do with dumb rice farmers.

I think that the democrats' shortcoming is more that the lack inter-regional appeal. Perhaps part of that is because of the condescending belief that everyone else is a "dumb rice farmer".

Granted, Chiang Mai is Thaksin's home, but each of the opposition demonstrations held here over the past few days have drawn well under 100 people, probably closer to 50. In a city the size of Chiang Mai, a protest against Bozo The Clown should be able to draw more people than that. And while the Dems might not be as good at brainwashing, the people at the Chiang Mai demonstrations didn't exactly seem to have a deep grasp of the issues. Taksin is evil, they love the king, and that's about as far as they think it through.

Edited November 12, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[ggold]

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

Any other government in a democratic country would have resigned after such a fiasco. They have failed spectacularly with most if not all their populist policies designed for one aim.

The demonstrators have every right to protest. It is their democratic right, so how is that civil disobedience or rabble-rousing?

[ggold]

The answer is to dissolve this ineffective government and let the electorate decide what party and what policies they want in a general election. Then in the interim a caretaker government can cancel the rice scam, amnesty scam ect ect and maybe save the treasury. Then everyone can be charged, and the truth will come out and the people can decide amnesty on a individual basis. A blanket amnesty leaves too many unanswered questions.

Do you mean call for a new election like Thaksin did in 2006? The main problem with that is that most likely the electorate would just vote Yingluck and the rest of the reds back in again.

Probably.. but their powerbase might be a lot weaker not a solid majority and stuff. They might have to actually rule and think of others then. Now they just steamroll it all through and disband any organisation they think holds them back.

That could backfire though. If a new election were held and the reds won by a similar margin as last time then they would proceed as if they had a mandate. And then what, another coup? Until the Dems figure out how to win a national election nothing fundamental changes.

I really don't think the grass root red shirts would vote for PTP right now, all be it because they took the propaganda lies of the PTP as truth. So they still want Abhisit and Suthep to stand trial. The amnesty bill would mean that doesn't happen. But now maybe they are listening to other voices other than PTP propaganda, maybe they are starting to realize the real truth, what ever that may be!

But I agree Politics in Thailand needs a fundamental change, Parties that look after the majority as opposed to "self serving, get what I can out of it, while I can" politicians.

I don' think rice farmers are as dumb as some might think!

[Sydebolle]

Let me get this right:

- lower house 310:0 in favour

- upper house 141:0 against it

Could it possibly (possibly only) be, that this country is simply not ready for a Western-style democracy? I read between the lines, that the entire bunch of lower housers should resign for good and let people in their place to handle the business a little more professional. I already spoken to the kindergarten next door and they would be able to contribute 32 kids to act as MPs which is a fairer, more honest and more dedicated lot than the lovely people who presently screw around with this beautiful country of theirs ……..

[Arkady]

The government has now set up a 6 month stand off. Given the stealth with which they turned the first reading on its head and passed the second and third readings in rapid succession and the hollow sounding reassurances made about dropping it since that backfired on them, it is pretty obvious that they want to keep open the option to railroad it through after 180 days. If they were sincere about dropping it, they could have adopted the mechanism of retroactively determining it was a financial bill and sending it back to the PM for approval. She could have declined to sign and it would have died definitively. There were some question marks about whether this would have been constitutional after it passed its third reading but it is unlikely that anyone would have wanted to take the case to the Constitutional Court and anyway they only have themselves to blame for ramming the third reading through without waiting to gauge public reaction. So now they should take that small risk to put the milk back in the bottle for the good of the nation. If they had trouble with the Constitutional Court, they could have dissolved the house and go to the country with the amnesty off the table in the electoral campaign. As it is, dissolving the house would leave the bill on the table and it could be rammed through 60 days after a new government took office. Therefore dissolving the house in this situation would create a stick for the Dems to beat them with, i.e. don't vote for PT because they are obviously going to amnesty Dr T and the other 25,000 corrupt scumbags 60 days after taking office, which is no doubt exactly would happen.

It seems to be a another big miscalculation by Dr T, almost on the scale of his in blunder in refusing to donate part of his profits from the Shin Corp sale in lieu of tax. Now he is in a bind because his chief motivation for running the Thai government is to manipulate things so he can come back scot-free and get his old job back again. If he can do everything else except that, the whole thing is futile for him and he will never give up, until he either gets what he wants, becomes senile or shuffles off his mortal coil completely. Dr T is a wonderful embodiment of the Greek tragedy principles of hubris (overweaning pride) followed by nemisis (retribution). If he had studied the classics things might have been different but, as it is, Thailand still has a long hard road ahead of it.

[mrtoad]

I would not trust PTP one bit, given that it is a governement caddied by a convicted criminal fugitive in Dubai. Honesty and integrity are not exactly trademarks of PTP, Thaksin and Yingluck. There still appears to be only one real agenda, and that is to get him back to Thailand at all costs and absolve all of the of any lackeys of their alleged crimes. I hope and wish the protestors well in finally exposing and forcing this government to come clean on their real agenda. Chalerm, Jatuporn and the other usual thugs will spout bile and hatred to rabble rouse, threaten and intimidate anyone dissenters , but maybe finally the game is up.

49 days till Chalerm gets beheaded

[whybother]

Let me get this right:

- lower house 310:0 in favour

- upper house 141:0 against it

Could it possibly (possibly only) be, that this country is simply not ready for a Western-style democracy? I read between the lines, that the entire bunch of lower housers should resign for good and let people in their place to handle the business a little more professional. I already spoken to the kindergarten next door and they would be able to contribute 32 kids to act as MPs which is a fairer, more honest and more dedicated lot than the lovely people who presently screw around with this beautiful country of theirs ……..

The upper house were only against it because of the protests and Yingluck saying to vote it down. The lower house voted 315:1 to withdraw all other amnesty bills, but couldn't get rid of the one in the senate.

[stoffel45]

Thaksin and his clowns learned this too late- but they aren't stupid-- in the cutthroat world of politics and business, yuou don't amass a fortune being thick headed --

Thank you for your post Blaze, most of which I think is accurate.

However, if you look at the history of Thaksin, you find an opportunist who married a very intelligent woman in a very powerful and wealthy Chinese family.

It was that family, who sponsored Thaksin into Government and it was that family who secured, with one other Chinese family, the total rights to every kind of mobile phone import and the broadcast system.

With such a monopoly it was, truly, impossible not to make a huge fortune and amass even more power.

Thaksin, son of a cinema owner operator, was in effect a nobody who was selected by the "in-law Family" to use as a tool in Parliament to further the "Family's" business.

Since 2006, he went off the rails, in love with his own "manufactured" persona. He started to believe that the Shin in Shinawatra Industries was all due to himself.

The deal with the Burmese, where he used 30 billion baht of Thai public purse money (he did tend to get Thaksin money and Thailand's money mixed up when it suited.) to lend to Burma's equally awful corruptocrats - so that they may buy Shin satellite technology.

Of course the family considered him "beyond the pale" when he was found guilty, but also because his handling of the land deal, convicted the daughter of the family for tax fraud.

The association with this reduced in value fugitive criminal, so totally taken with himself - and thus NOT the FAMILY meant that his wife had to distance herself - thus separating the family. Hence - the divorce.

So - no you cannot amass a fortune if you are thick headed - but you certainly can lose other people's fortune if you are thick headed.

Edited November 12, 2013 by stoffel45

[15Peter20]

The PTP government has withdrawn its plans to pursue the bill. The senate has rejected it. The government has accepted the ICJ ruling on the temple. Any further civil disobedience from the yellows or ex Dems can be seen as pure opportunistic rabble-rousing.

We only have Yingluk and Thaksin's word that the bill will not become law in 180 days, and that is worth SFA.

Are people not allowed to express anger at the hubris of a government prepared to foist an an amnesty on the country that was so obviously self-serving? Can't you see that this is corruption, especially when the WHOLE party is prepared to follow the orders of a fugitive convicted criminal?

And can't you see that the issues of Thaksin's corruption and the rice scheme were around long before the events of the past week unfolded, but when yellow-associated groups staged demonstrations about those issues, very few people turned up and they invariably had to be called of after a day or so?

With the government's climb down over amnesty, and the ICJ ruling on the temple out of the way, those issues are the only ones remaining again but the dems/yellows want to ride the wave of dissatisfaction caused by the amnesty bill screw-up to achieve the same ends they were aiming to achieve when only a matter of a few hundred or a few thousand people turned up to their earlier events.

Hence the opportunistic rabble rousing I mentioned earlier.