Old Soi Eric open again

[NamKangMan]

@ Swiss Axel

I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.

[SDM0712]

“So, a member's job is to sell property/businesses/leases and he's on the forum "talking up" the profitability of buying a bar and you don't think there's a conflict of interest? “ NKM

Have I talked up the profitability of buying a bar, in fact no I have not. I have just mentioned a number of people that I know who are quite happy with their bars and one who has purchased a much larger bar after having a smaller one for some fifteen years. All true and I am sure that anyone who knows the area well will know exactly who I mean.

In any event, let’s say I had offered a bar to someone here, I make no secret of the fact that I work for the seller. I do not work for the buyer or represent the buyer in any way, no agent does. I would expect and advise any buyer to demonstrate some due diligence, investigation and discovery. If they did not, well more fool them.

There would only be a “conflict of interest” if I had attempted to advise a buyer to purchase a bar, whilst working for the seller. I have not done this.

SDM

[IrishIvan]

@ Swiss Axel

I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.

or enslaving oneself to become a pimp, its considered 1 level up from being a rock spider in Australia

[NamKangMan]

@ Swiss Axel

I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.

or enslaving oneself to become a pimp, its considered 1 level up from being a rock spider in Australia

Indeed, and with the high bar fines now, as suggested, the bar owners are turning more to the sale of sex, rather than alcohol, to survive in business here.

[NamKangMan]

“So, a member's job is to sell property/businesses/leases and he's on the forum "talking up" the profitability of buying a bar and you don't think there's a conflict of interest? “ NKM

Have I talked up the profitability of buying a bar, in fact no I have not. I have just mentioned a number of people that I know who are quite happy with their bars and one who has purchased a much larger bar after having a smaller one for some fifteen years. All true and I am sure that anyone who knows the area well will know exactly who I mean.

In any event, let’s say I had offered a bar to someone here, I make no secret of the fact that I work for the seller. I do not work for the buyer or represent the buyer in any way, no agent does. I would expect and advise any buyer to demonstrate some due diligence, investigation and discovery. If they did not, well more fool them.

There would only be a “conflict of interest” if I had attempted to advise a buyer to purchase a bar, whilst working for the seller. I have not done this.

SDM

The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand. :)

[Swiss Axel]

@ Swiss Axel

I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.

or enslaving oneself to become a pimp, its considered 1 level up from being a rock spider in Australia

Indeed, and with the high bar fines now, as suggested, the bar owners are turning more to the sale of sex, rather than alcohol, to survive in business here.

No Bar in Bangla promotes the sale of sex, (although it looks like it with the skimpy clothing etc) this would be illegal ofcourse. Bars in Bangla is a place to drink and meet pretty girls to drink with. If said customer would like to take away a pretty girl that is entirely upto the girl and the customer. Bars do not force this upon the girls or the customer. Bars would prefer to keep the girl in the bar selling drinks. Hence a Bar Fine. You are effectively taking away their staff.

Also, if you pay a bar fine you know where she/he works so, if you do have an issue you have a comeback. If you decide to save on a bar fine and risk hooking a bit of strange on the street then that is selling sex. You'll get all sorts of surprises on that one.

[SDM0712]

“ I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.” NKM

That’s an interesting point, would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai. SDM

“Indeed, and with the high bar fines now, as suggested, the bar owners are turning more to the sale of sex, rather than alcohol, to survive in business here.” NKM

In fact I understand that the high bar fines are a tool to dissuade customers from taking the bars staff away too early in the evening. This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am. If what you say is correct the fine would not reduce. SDM

The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand. NKM

I note the two smiles, but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land, completely legally and in their own name and on a proper title document, in certain circumstances. I will let you discover those circumstances yourself, you never know you might fit the requirements.

Do you actually live in Thailand, not really relevant, I am just curious

SDM

[NamKangMan]

@ Swiss Axel

"No Bar in Bangla promotes the sale of sex" - if that's the case, why are there 10 bar girls to serve alcohol to 2 or 3 customers at a time? Why not 2 legitimate staff serving customers? The bars ARE promoting sex.

"If said customer would like to take away a pretty girl that is entirely upto the girl and the customer." - I think you would find that a bar girl, who didn't go with any customers, would soon be fired.

"You are effectively taking away their staff." - that's why there are so many of them working behind the bar.

"Also, if you pay a bar fine you know where she/he works so, if you do have an issue you have a comeback." - the hotel also has their ID Card. Anyone who doesn't lock up their wallet, phone, watch etc is asking for trouble. After locking these items up, what "issues" could you have?

"If you decide to save on a bar fine and risk hooking a bit of strange on the street then that is selling sex. You'll get all sorts of surprises on that one." - you do know that the nightclubs fill up at 2am with all the bar girls that didn't get bar fined, or who just went for "short time." They are now freelanging after their bar closes. Many girls in the nightclub work in the bars. Effectively, you are taking the same girl home, without paying a bar fine. Once back in your room, you should apply the sample principles of securty of your valuables as you would if you took the girl out of a bar.

In recent history, there have been cases of bars drugging customers, getting the guy back home, and stealing from him. Many bar girls also try their best to rip off customers by telling the customer she has her period, after he has paid the bar fine, or she has a bad head ache etc etc. Taking a girl from a bar has its risks as well. There's less chance of being ripped off this way by a freelancer. For the freelancer, no "boom" - not money.

Also, buying a drink for a freelancer in a nightclub, you are actually buying a drink, not a small glass of coke or orange juice for 200 baht.

[nedkellylives]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

[NamKangMan]

“ I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.” NKM

That’s an interesting point, would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai. SDM

“Indeed, and with the high bar fines now, as suggested, the bar owners are turning more to the sale of sex, rather than alcohol, to survive in business here.” NKM

In fact I understand that the high bar fines are a tool to dissuade customers from taking the bars staff away too early in the evening. This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am. If what you say is correct the fine would not reduce. SDM

The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand. NKM

I note the two smiles, but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land, completely legally and in their own name and on a proper title document, in certain circumstances. I will let you discover those circumstances yourself, you never know you might fit the requirements.

Do you actually live in Thailand, not really relevant, I am just curious

SDM

"would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai" - if he's not Thai, he can't own the land, so why would I deal with a middleman, thus, making it more expensive for myself?

"In fact I understand that the high bar fines are a tool to dissuade customers from taking the bars staff away too early in the evening." - I'm suggesting, at 1000 baht, it's "dissuading customers" from going to the bar at all, and this can be seen in the sudden popularity of the nightclubs here now, even despite their higher drink prices than the bars.

"This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am." - not all bars are reducing their bar fines. They need the money.

"but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land" - you are correct, but it comes with strict conditions. Why would I "invest" 40 million baht (approx $1,333,333US) in a 3rd World Country and I can't leave the land, an asset, to my childen upon my death????

A quick google reveals this:

"Land ownership in Thailand is governed by the Land Code Act and under Thai land laws only Thai nationals are allowed to own land or have a confirmed right of possession of land. Foreigners may not own land unless there is a treaty or exemption allowing the foreigner to own land in Thailand (section 86). Thailand has currently no treaty with any country allowing a foreigner to acquire land in Thailand. Any foreigner who violates foreign land ownership restrictions could be fined and/or sent to jail for a term of up to 2 years (Land Code act section 111). Only a foreigner who qualifies under section 96 bis of the Land Code Act may own up to 1600 square meters (or 1 rai) of land for residential purposes in specified areas. Foreign land ownership under section 96 bis among other requires an investement of not less than 40 million Baht in by the BOI approved Thai bonds and assets which must be beneficial to Thai economy and requires approval by the Minister of Interior. If granted foreign land ownership under this exemption is limited to the life of the person granted the right to own the land (not transferable, not inheritable). Permission for foreign land ownership under section 96 bis Land Code Act is rarely applied for or granted.

Foreign corporations operating a business in Thailand may for the duration of their business in Thailand obtain special privileges and exemptions for land ownership through the Board of Investement under section 27 of the Investment Promotion Act and under section 44 of the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand Act or section 65 of the Petroleum Act. This exemption requires large investments and is limited to the duration of their business.

"Do you actually live in Thailand, not really relevant, I am just curious." - yes, I live on Phuket, and in Patong. I haven't lived here, full time, as long as many others on this forum, but I also highly doubt I will be leaving Thailand due to losing my life savings through becoming romantically involved with a bar girl, or buying a "business" or propertry, that sits on land that I can never own, in such an unstable and corrupt country. Why would I take such a risk, for little, or no reward????

Edited November 19, 2013 by NamKangMan

[eezergood]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

Aussie bar and?????

[NamKangMan]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

Agreed, there are a few "legitimate" bars on Bangla Road that do well, but they are in the minority. I frequent them also. Scruffy Murphy's and The Aussie Bar. That said, I have seen them a lot busier in the past than what they have been in recent times.

Edited November 19, 2013 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

Aussie bar and?????

Scruffy Murphy's - Irish Bar. Great live music and air conditioning.

Edited November 19, 2013 by NamKangMan

[eezergood]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

Aussie bar and?????

Scruffy Murphy's - Irish Bar. Great live music and air conditioning.

and about as Irish as fried rice

[SDM0712]

Morning NKM

I had a couple of observations I wanted to ask you about.

“ In recent history, there have been cases of bars drugging customers, getting the guy back home, and stealing from him.” NKM

I must admit that I rarely go out to bars these days, but this surprises me and I wonder how you have come to know this. Either you were directly involved as the person who was drugged, or are a friend of the person who was drugged, or were involved in some other direct way, if so, can you name the bar or bars so the rest of us might avoid them. Or is it the case that this is purely an unsubstantiated rumour, an urban myth? SDM

“ There's less chance of being ripped off this way by a freelancer. For the freelancer, no "boom" - not money.” NKM

Aren’t there other risks associated with “Freelancers” though? As I understand matters girls in bars are required to do a 90 day blood test and have a book to show Police on request. No such requirement is made of “ freelancers”. I might be wrong on this, perhaps someone with actual knowledge would confirm. SDM

“Also, buying a drink for a freelancer in a nightclub, you are actually buying a drink, not a small glass of coke or orange juice for 200 baht.” NKM

An interesting comment since I doubt the girl in either case really cares what she is drinking and since the chap as buyer of the drink is not consuming it himself, why should he care either. SDM

"would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai" - if he's not Thai, he can't own the land, so why would I deal with a middleman, thus, making it more expensive for myself?” NKM

I think what you actually said was

“ I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.”

But now you seem to be saying that you do not have a problem with the Thai landlord, so much as a problem with a middleman, such as an agent, because this would be making it more expensive for you. Did I miss something ? Also it is worthy of note, since we are talking about Soi Eric/Freedom, that all the bar owners deal with the new Soi owner directly.

"This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am." SDM - not all bars are reducing their bar fines. They need the money. “ NKM

Perhaps so, although all the bars that I know have this policy. SDM

"but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land"

“ you are correct, but it comes with strict conditions. Why would I "invest" 40 million baht in a 3rd World Country and I can't leave the land, an asset, to my children upon my death????” NKM

Unfortunately I personally myself do not have a spare 40 MB so my opinion is irrelevant. However what you actually wrote was, incorrectly intimating that a foreigner cannot own land;

“The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand”. NKM

and my answer given correctly that yes a foreigner can own land here. As a point of interest we have a very similar rule in the UK, not sure about The States.

“ yes, I live on Phuket, and in Patong. I haven't lived here, full time, as long as many others on this forum, but I also highly doubt I will be leaving Thailand due to losing my life savings through becoming romantically involved with a bar girl, or buying a "business" or property, that sits on land that I can never own, in such an unstable and corrupt country. Why would I take such a risk, for little, or no reward????”

The question begs to be asked, with all the negatives points you have made, why are you here ? And why in a place like Patong with all its bars, bar girls etc that you seem to despise. Had you not considered somewhere less of a “ party town”. I don’t dispute what you say, I just wonder what has attracted the “ Ice Man” to the land of smiles and what I like to call “ Party Town.

SDM

Edited November 19, 2013 by SDM0712

[xylophone]

Quote SDM0712: "you would have noticed that I am involved in this kind of work professionally" SDM

If you are involved in the sale of bars, then there is absolutely a conflict of interest and I totally agree with NKM on this.

It is a well-known fact that bar owners will never tell you if they are losing money (and I know this from first-hand experience) because if word gets out, they will never be able to sell their bar. And even if they do put their bar up for sale, then the "books" (such as they are) will never tell the full story.

If bars are such a good investment one only has to ask oneself what Soi Eric looked like before it closed. Of the around 30 bars in the Soi, only about 10 were making money and that is the reason that the majority of the bars in the last 3rd of the Soi (on both sides) were closed. The owners basically walked away before the leases were up, because they had already paid the lease and it was now dead money, however their income could not cover the monthly rent and other outgoings.

One bar owner "topped" himself (RIP poor man) because he lost just about everything on the bar; another bar was sold to the bar adjoining it because it had started to lose money, and even the new owner actually closed the bar some months later. The bar next to that also closed because it lost too much money........ and I could go on with many other examples, having lived here for quite a few years.

Yes, there are some that make money and they are particularly well run, however the majority don't, and I would like to quote a very smart guy who owned a bar here and to sold it a few years back, at the right time as it happened, when he said that, "there is always some fool with half a brain and deep pockets who steps off the airplane and thinks that owning a bar is a good investment, and all the time that happens, bars will be sold".

[NamKangMan]

Morning NKM

I had a couple of observations I wanted to ask you about.

“ In recent history, there have been cases of bars drugging customers, getting the guy back home, and stealing from him.” NKM

I must admit that I rarely go out to bars these days, but this surprises me and I wonder how you have come to know this. Either you were directly involved as the person who was drugged, or are a friend of the person who was drugged, or were involved in some other direct way, if so, can you name the bar or bars so the rest of us might avoid them. Or is it the case that this is purely an unsubstantiated rumour, an urban myth? SDM

“ There's less chance of being ripped off this way by a freelancer. For the freelancer, no "boom" - not money.” NKM

Aren’t there other risks associated with “Freelancers” though? As I understand matters girls in bars are required to do a 90 day blood test and have a book to show Police on request. No such requirement is made of “ freelancers”. I might be wrong on this, perhaps someone with actual knowledge would confirm. SDM

“Also, buying a drink for a freelancer in a nightclub, you are actually buying a drink, not a small glass of coke or orange juice for 200 baht.” NKM

An interesting comment since I doubt the girl in either case really cares what she is drinking and since the chap as buyer of the drink is not consuming it himself, why should he care either. SDM

"would you also have a problem if the Landlord were not Thai" - if he's not Thai, he can't own the land, so why would I deal with a middleman, thus, making it more expensive for myself?” NKM

I think what you actually said was

“ I couldn't think of anything worse than enslaving one's self to a greedy Thai landlord by owning a bar.”

But now you seem to be saying that you do not have a problem with the Thai landlord, so much as a problem with a middleman, such as an agent, because this would be making it more expensive for you. Did I miss something ? Also it is worthy of note, since we are talking about Soi Eric/Freedom, that all the bar owners deal with the new Soi owner directly.

"This is reflected by the bar fine reducing from around midnight to 1am." SDM - not all bars are reducing their bar fines. They need the money. “ NKM

Perhaps so, although all the bars that I know have this policy. SDM

"but in fact I am delighted to tell you that a foreigner CAN own up to one rai of land"

“ you are correct, but it comes with strict conditions. Why would I "invest" 40 million baht in a 3rd World Country and I can't leave the land, an asset, to my children upon my death????” NKM

Unfortunately I personally myself do not have a spare 40 MB so my opinion is irrelevant. However what you actually wrote was, incorrectly intimating that a foreigner cannot own land;

“The next thing you will be saying is how a foreigner CAN own land in Thailand”. NKM

and my answer given correctly that yes a foreigner can own land here. As a point of interest we have a very similar rule in the UK, not sure about The States.

“ yes, I live on Phuket, and in Patong. I haven't lived here, full time, as long as many others on this forum, but I also highly doubt I will be leaving Thailand due to losing my life savings through becoming romantically involved with a bar girl, or buying a "business" or property, that sits on land that I can never own, in such an unstable and corrupt country. Why would I take such a risk, for little, or no reward????”

The question begs to be asked, with all the negatives points you have made, why are you here ? And why in a place like Patong with all its bars, bar girls etc that you seem to despise. Had you not considered somewhere less of a “ party town”. I don’t dispute what you say, I just wonder what has attracted the “ Ice Man” to the land of smiles and what I like to call “ Party Town.

SDM

The drugging of customers (drink spiking) was reported in the media. You will find it with google. It's one of the reasons there was a "crackdown" on the sale of sleeping tablets by pharmacies. I have never been drugged, or have been involved in the drugging of an innocent person. It is not a rumor, there have been reported cases of this crime.

EVERYONE should practice safe sex with a new sexual partner, even if it's just for the night. In any case, a HIV test, 88 days ago, gives no indication of someone's HIV status on day 89. They could have contracted the virus 30 days ago. If one was to start a relationship with a former prostitute, safe sex should be practiced for 90 days, then both tested. Many of the bar girls have Thai boyfriends on the side, and this is a constant risk.

In relation to alcoholic drinks, it's of little importance to me what the bar girl drinks - I'm simply saying that in many cases you are paying for an alcoholic drink, but in fact, there is no alcohol in it. This is not the case if you go to a nightclub. If you order a scotch and coke for your "new friend" - she gets a scotch and coke, not just a coke with ice, and at a lady drink price.

I don't have a problem with ANY landlords as I have not bought a propertry/business here, and most likely, never will. So, I will not "buy" off a Thai, or a foreigner. Simple as that.

As mentioned earlier, two young French guys tried the high bar fine before midnight, reducing after midnight. Their bar was busy from 11:55pm to 12:05am. They in fact lost money using this bar fine business model. Surprise surprise - they are not here anymore. For many bars in Tiger, the bar fine is 1000 baht, and is not reduced after midnight or 1am.

I said you were correct - a foreigner can own land, but look at the conditions that must me met in order to do so. Hardly a smart business move, investing 40 million baht here, just to own 1 Rai of land in Thailand, a 3rd World Country, that you can't leave to your next of kin upon your death. Even if 40 million baht was nothing to me, I would still not invest that amount of money into this country. It would simply not be a sound business proposition.

I like living in Thailand, and Phuket, and Patong. I've been asked several times what I like about here. I've answered this question in the past.

Briefly, I like the climate, the beach, the affordability, the nature, the variety of food and beverage available, the nightlife (legitimate and otherwise) the well connected international airport, the muticultural tourists and expats here, the vibrant atmosphere that comes with a place where people holiday, access to decent medical, dental and technology Eg. fast internet, sat TV etc. I like the freedom of lifestyle here, the ease of getting visas to Thailand, I even enjoy the occasional small challenges that come with living here Eg. communication/language barrier etc etc. These are off the toip of my head - I am sure I could think of many others.

That said, Phuket has many issues. Probably, the island's biggest problem is corruption, and I think it's starting to effect the tourism industry, but that's for another thread. Many members know I am particular vocal on the transport issue here, which is directly related to corruption, and has caused so much death and injury. I admit, I am highly crtical of Phuket on this issue.

Just because I have minimised my exposure to financial risk here, you shouldn't take that as me being "negative" about Thailand and/or Phuket and/or Thai people.

I don't need to own a bar or property to be happy. In fact, it makes me happier to not have such a liability here.

I like living in Patong, or "Party Town" as you call it, mainly because of the variety of restaurants and bars that are, basically, right on my door step, and the social nature of Patong.

I have stated before, I'm an expat, living like a tourist, in a place that allows me to do so. It's a great lifestyle. Why would I burden myself with anything that would change that?

[KarenBravo]

Also, The Shipwreck bar and the Kangaroo Bar. The last hasn't changed in decades and is the original Aussie watering hole.

[SDM0712]

NKM

Thank you for your response, but there is nothing new there really. I didn't read that in the media, but if it was reported I'm sure it is true.

I get the feeling that we are going round and round here and thus have nothing new to add.

Apart from to the chap who agreed with you that I have a conflict of interest. I would only have a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in the sale, or attempting to sell a bar to someone reading this thread. I am not, so clearly no conflict exists. Even if I was actively engaged in selling or attempting to sell to someone here, I would be working for the seller as an agent and make no secret of that. There is only a conflict of interest if I am in some way also working for a buyer, this is why it is termed a conflict of interests, ie representing both sides in a transaction.

In fact I have just checked my company stock and we only have listed one bar from a few days ago. Having said that it is a four storey building that just happens to have a bar on the ground floor, but it could be used for any commercial purpose.

Clearly no conflict of interest.

Have a nice day everyone.

SDM

[IrishIvan]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

Aussie bar and?????

Of course you can barfine women from the Aussie bar. I have done it many times. There are generally about 4 or 5 women playing pool and drinking with the punters, they are the bargirls

[eezergood]

I know 2 bars in Bangla road that do very well financially with no bar girls

The only ones i ever drank at many years ago and still have the same owners

Aussie bar and?????

Of course you can barfine women from the Aussie bar. I have done it many times. There are generally about 4 or 5 women playing pool and drinking with the punters, they are the bargirls

I stand corrected.......

[NamKangMan]

NKM

Thank you for your response, but there is nothing new there really. I didn't read that in the media, but if it was reported I'm sure it is true.

I get the feeling that we are going round and round here and thus have nothing new to add.

Apart from to the chap who agreed with you that I have a conflict of interest. I would only have a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in the sale, or attempting to sell a bar to someone reading this thread. I am not, so clearly no conflict exists. Even if I was actively engaged in selling or attempting to sell to someone here, I would be working for the seller as an agent and make no secret of that. There is only a conflict of interest if I am in some way also working for a buyer, this is why it is termed a conflict of interests, ie representing both sides in a transaction.

In fact I have just checked my company stock and we only have listed one bar from a few days ago. Having said that it is a four storey building that just happens to have a bar on the ground floor, but it could be used for any commercial purpose.

Clearly no conflict of interest.

Have a nice day everyone.

SDM

The "conflict of interest" mentioned is on this forum.

If you post that you know a couple of bar owners "who do very nicely indeed" - you are promoting the ownership of a bar as a profitable business, which you just happen to be an agent selling them, and everyone here knows here that's BS. The bars are struggling. Hence, the "conflict of interest" in your posts.

I've never dealt with you on a professional basis - nor am I likely to, but, your posts talking up land/business ownership on this forum, plus hte fact you sell them, is a conflict of interest, in regards to your comments on this forum.

It's nothing personal - it's you job to BS and sell.

How's your Russian and Chinese language lessons going? :)

[KarenBravo]

NKM

Thank you for your response, but there is nothing new there really. I didn't read that in the media, but if it was reported I'm sure it is true.

I get the feeling that we are going round and round here and thus have nothing new to add.

Apart from to the chap who agreed with you that I have a conflict of interest. I would only have a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in the sale, or attempting to sell a bar to someone reading this thread. I am not, so clearly no conflict exists. Even if I was actively engaged in selling or attempting to sell to someone here, I would be working for the seller as an agent and make no secret of that. There is only a conflict of interest if I am in some way also working for a buyer, this is why it is termed a conflict of interests, ie representing both sides in a transaction.

In fact I have just checked my company stock and we only have listed one bar from a few days ago. Having said that it is a four storey building that just happens to have a bar on the ground floor, but it could be used for any commercial purpose.

Clearly no conflict of interest.

Have a nice day everyone.

SDM

The "conflict of interest" mentioned is on this forum.

If you post that you know a couple of bar owners "who do very nicely indeed" - you are promoting the ownership of a bar as a profitable business, which you just happen to be an agent selling them, and everyone here knows here that's BS. The bars are struggling. Hence, the "conflict of interest" in your posts.

I've never dealt with you on a professional basis - nor am I likely to, but, your posts talking up land/business ownership on this forum, plus hte fact you sell them, is a conflict of interest, in regards to your comments on this forum.

It's nothing personal - it's you job to BS and sell.

How's your Russian and Chinese language lessons going?

There are successful bars in Bangla where money is being made hand-over-fist..

He is not trying to sell these bars, he is just stating facts.

Don't see a conflict of interest stating this.

[NamKangMan]

NKM

Thank you for your response, but there is nothing new there really. I didn't read that in the media, but if it was reported I'm sure it is true.

I get the feeling that we are going round and round here and thus have nothing new to add.

Apart from to the chap who agreed with you that I have a conflict of interest. I would only have a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in the sale, or attempting to sell a bar to someone reading this thread. I am not, so clearly no conflict exists. Even if I was actively engaged in selling or attempting to sell to someone here, I would be working for the seller as an agent and make no secret of that. There is only a conflict of interest if I am in some way also working for a buyer, this is why it is termed a conflict of interests, ie representing both sides in a transaction.

In fact I have just checked my company stock and we only have listed one bar from a few days ago. Having said that it is a four storey building that just happens to have a bar on the ground floor, but it could be used for any commercial purpose.

Clearly no conflict of interest.

Have a nice day everyone.

SDM

The "conflict of interest" mentioned is on this forum.

If you post that you know a couple of bar owners "who do very nicely indeed" - you are promoting the ownership of a bar as a profitable business, which you just happen to be an agent selling them, and everyone here knows here that's BS. The bars are struggling. Hence, the "conflict of interest" in your posts.

I've never dealt with you on a professional basis - nor am I likely to, but, your posts talking up land/business ownership on this forum, plus hte fact you sell them, is a conflict of interest, in regards to your comments on this forum.

It's nothing personal - it's you job to BS and sell.

How's your Russian and Chinese language lessons going?

There are successful bars in Bangla where money is being made hand-over-fist..

He is not trying to sell these bars, he is just stating facts.

Don't see a conflict of interest stating this.

In your opinion, KB, give me a rough percentage of the profitable bars as compared to the non-profitable bars.

This complex is doing well. You should buy a bar in this place. You can't lose. :)

http://www.nasaphuket.com/

Edited November 20, 2013 by NamKangMan

[xylophone]

On the subject of a "conflict of interest", I really can't see the problem here.

Here is a guy who's business is selling property of just about any sort, and including bars.

It would be foolish of him to say anything bad about the profitability of bars, because not only could he have one for sale in the near future, he also has friends in the business. In addition, if he had a reputation of stating that bars were not profitable then no one would bring their bars to him if they wanted to sell them.

His interests lie in talking up the bars and their profitability even when many are not, indeed the vast majority are not. Sure you will get Kangaroo bar, the Aussie bar, Blue Lotus, Smiley bar, Shipwreck and a few others which are profitable, then you have to look at the bars in the recently closed Soi Eric, in which around 25 to 30% only were profitable.

Then go and look at Soi Gonzo which may be profitable for 2 months of the year, but that's about it. Soi Easy has all but finished because – – yes you guessed it, the bars weren't making any money. Then of course there is the little enclave of bars started by a couple of French guys who demolished a couple of pool rooms in order to build something like 10 bars – – the 1st 2 or 3 look to be doing okay but the ones at the back, not a chance.

His conflict of interest lies in the fact that he has to talk up the profitability of bars even when they are not, because he has friends in the business and selling property is the business he is in.

For a general definition see this: – "More generally, conflicts of interest can be defined as any situation in which an individual is in a position to exploit a professional or official capacity in some way for their personal or corporate benefit".

So in his professional position as a real estate agent, talking up the profitability of bars could result in a sale for him, i.e. a conflict of interest.

[eezergood]

Also I didnt see him actively touting anything.......

[NamKangMan]

On the subject of a "conflict of interest", I really can't see the problem here.

Here is a guy who's business is selling property of just about any sort, and including bars.

It would be foolish of him to say anything bad about the profitability of bars, because not only could he have one for sale in the near future, he also has friends in the business. In addition, if he had a reputation of stating that bars were not profitable then no one would bring their bars to him if they wanted to sell them.

His interests lie in talking up the bars and their profitability even when many are not, indeed the vast majority are not. Sure you will get Kangaroo bar, the Aussie bar, Blue Lotus, Smiley bar, Shipwreck and a few others which are profitable, then you have to look at the bars in the recently closed Soi Eric, in which around 25 to 30% only were profitable.

Then go and look at Soi Gonzo which may be profitable for 2 months of the year, but that's about it. Soi Easy has all but finished because – – yes you guessed it, the bars weren't making any money. Then of course there is the little enclave of bars started by a couple of French guys who demolished a couple of pool rooms in order to build something like 10 bars – – the 1st 2 or 3 look to be doing okay but the ones at the back, not a chance.

His conflict of interest lies in the fact that he has to talk up the profitability of bars even when they are not, because he has friends in the business and selling property is the business he is in.

For a general definition see this: – "More generally, conflicts of interest can be defined as any situation in which an individual is in a position to exploit a professional or official capacity in some way for their personal or corporate benefit".

So in his professional position as a real estate agent, talking up the profitability of bars could result in a sale for him, i.e. a conflict of interest.

Good post. That's pretty much the way I see it. He wouldn't own one himself, but is happy to sell one to others.

Edited November 20, 2013 by NamKangMan

[xylophone]

Also I didnt see him actively touting anything.......

Doesn't have to be touting anything, just stating something which could benefit him and his profession is enough for someone to suggest he has a conflict of interest.

[SDM0712]

“The "conflict of interest" mentioned is on this forum. “ NKM

Again, there would only be a conflict of interest if I was actively engaged in selling a business to someone on this thread, while being retained by the seller to sell to that person whilst at the same time giving the impression I was free to give impartial advice to the buyer, also a member of this thread.

Since I am not involved in any of the above there is no conflict of interest. The only thing you could accuse me is, in your opinion, of painting a rosier picture than is true. I have been a London agent for the best part of 25 years and believe me I know what a conflict of interest is. SDM

If you post that you know a couple of bar owners "who do very nicely indeed" - you are promoting the ownership of a bar as a profitable business, which you just happen to be an agent selling them, and everyone here knows here that's BS.

Let me say here, and correct me if I am wrong, that you would seem to have no direct relationship or experience with the bar business other than being a customer. That being the case, if I am wrong please correct me, all of your observations are just that, observations enhanced by rumour. I on the other hand because I am involved professionally actually do have some insight into turnover and profitability. The bar owners I have referred to are extremely good at what they do, they are doing very nicely, and their bars are most definitely not for sale. However this is clearly not a blanket statement that covers every bar in Phuket.

I think it’s fair and obvious to point out that many bars are not doing well, but this is normal in business, some do well and others not so well. However, in my opinion, this is more down to bar owners that have had a few nice holidays here, decided they would “ live the dream” by acquiring a bar which then fails. In my experience, this is usually down to the fact that the new bar owner has never owned a bar and has not a clue how to run it. The “barstool” experts think it is easy, which it is not. They would be no more successful buying a coffee shop, assuming they are not already baristas.

Also, I would like to point out that I have been extremely polite in all my response to you, I have not made flippant remarks such as when I mentioned that if you would have read my profile you would have known what I do professionally, and your response was “ why would I care”. I note that since then you have looked. So I would like to make this clear, I do not BS, I have no reason to BS. Even though I live in Thailand I come from a rigorously regulated property market, where I still own a successful agency, and such things are dealt very harshly by the authorities. Anyone who knows me will say I tell things the way they are, and then I leave it to the other person to make their mind up. So, please, if you want to continue this discussion, let’s stick to fact and lets keep our language cleanIn you opinion, KB, give me a rough percentage of the profitable bars as compared to the non-profitable bars. . SDM

The bars are struggling. Hence, the "conflict of interest" in your posts. NKM

I have already covered this, but if you amend your statement to “ some bars are struggling but others are clearly not” I would agree with you. SDM

I've never dealt with you on a professional basis - nor am I likely to, but, your posts talking up land/business ownership on this forum, plus hte fact you sell them, is a conflict of interest, in regards to your comments on this forum.

Well that is your choice and I am quite happy with that. However, as I have said before, as an agent I represent the seller; I do not represent the buyer. Unless of course the buyer retains me and in that case I am working for the buyer, but this rarely happens. But I can never represent both, because that would be a conflict of interest. My job is to present that which we are selling in the best light, by way of details etc, but the actual decision and burden of satisfaction, must be with the buyer. You clearly consider Thailand to be a corrupt country where nothing anyone says can be trusted. However, as I have mentioned, I am British and have worked in Central London for most of my career. Hopefully you do not consider Great Britain as a corrupt country but even there we have a maxim used in legal and property circles, and that is “ Buyer Beware”, which basically means that it is up to a buyer to make his own investigation and either satisfy himself of whether a purchase is acceptable or not. The same applies here and everywhere else in the World. SDM

It's nothing personal - it's you job to BS and sell. NKM

I really don’t know what uyou are used to, but BS is not essential in sales. SDM

How's your Russian and Chinese language lessons going? NKM

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. SDM

[LivinginKata]

There are successful bars in Bangla where money is being made hand-over-fist..

He is not trying to sell these bars, he is just stating facts.

Don't see a conflict of interest stating this.

I agree. I know a guy who bought his first bar off Bangla about 7 years ago. I more or less laughed when he told me. 7 years later he has 3 bars in the new Tiger (he had 2 in the old Tiger when it burned down) and 2 other bars away from Bangla. He is doing very well. He works hard and has built up a large social network so these guys go to one of his bars when here on holiday.

My guess is that only 10 - 20% of the bars are making a good profit. The rest struggle along until they can't pay the rent and close or sell, hence the large turnover in bar sales.