Virtues of high-speed rail system to Hua Hin

[StreetCowboy]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

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I don't think people are doubting the benefits of implementing high speed rail in Thailand. And as you say, Hua Hin to Bangkok in an hour would be great. I think people are more concerned about the safety aspect and whether or not it will be properly maintained. Of course nobody knows for sure but all we can do is look at Thailand's existing rail network where we see stories, almost weekly, of train derailments and other problems.

Hope high speed rail in Thailand will be different as, like you say, there are many benefits to be had.

Are the existing railways well maintained? I don't recall reading about any significant accidents on the BTS, although the MRT had an unfortunate accident back in 2006 or 2005, if I recall correctly, though as I recall that was not related to maintenance

SC

[TheNativeSon]

Yeah, sure. 200-years into the future, and then only "maybe"!

[iubito2001]

A high speed train makes only sense connecting densely populated areas and the only if the train intervals are rather short and regular, otherwise people choose other transport methods.

If you look at the experience from the shinkansen trains in Japan (from wikipedia) you can see that for long distance (Chiang Mai, South Thailand etc) people choose air over train.

Quote

Compared with air transport, the Shinkansen has several advantages, including scheduling frequency and flexibility, punctual operation, comfortable seats, and convenient city-center terminals.

The Shinkansen system and airlines often compete with each other for the business of city-to-city domestic travelers. If the Shinkansen connects two cities in less than three hours, most passengers choose the Shinkansen, but if it takes more than four hours by Shinkansen, the majority choose air. Some examples are as follows.

Unquote

I agree with streetCowboy. For long distance use an upgraded double track system allowing speeds up to 160 km/h and make it suitable to transport bulk goods. All other ideas are phantasy and the cost of maintaining a high speed train system connecting towns with low income populations creates a tax burden not only for the investment but the maintenance as well. Such a system cannot be operated profitably.

Agree 100%.

It would seem more sensible to double track with metre gauge track and get the benefit of through-running on the new tracks laid through Malaysia as well. They'll save most of the time upgrading the current system to 120 kmh and eliminating the delays at passing places, while that will also benefit freight, and it can be done in incremental steps. SC

This is without a doubt the most sensible comment I have seen so far regarding Thai Rail.

Now, if only the folks in Parliament can stop fighting long enough to do something about it in the interests of Thailand!

Is this just not a small part of the plan China proposed a year or two ago?

I think the point that sank that one was that it did not include Chiang Mai as it would not be feasable but it did allow for a feasibly possible spur to Chiang Rai.

A friend in the travel business told me that the big push next year is to get the hordes of Russians to Hua Hin. He said that Phuket is overloaded and the Russians are liking Hua Hin.

There is a real reason to fear that. Has there been any talk of Pattaya or Phuket receiving benefits from the Russians other than tourist baht. All I hear about them is they bring the Mafia with them. Not Russian bashing just reporting what I hear about them.

[TheNativeSon]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

Last I looked, km was for indicating distance, not speed.

And I quote:

"One of the gateways to the South is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line that will only take 1 hour.

One of the high-speed rail lines planned to be constructed is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line, which totals 225 km. and consists of 4 stops: Nakhon Pathom, Phetchaburi, Ratchaburi, and Hua Hin."

Seems llke 225 km in 1 hour to me!

Regardless of the symantics, the French, Germans & Japanese will build it, using SinoThai money. Then turn it over to the Thaithais, to handle the (SinoThai financed) maintenance.

Then the maintenance funds will be skimmed from the top, leaving just enough funds to hire the least educated, most incompetent maintenance technicians (Thai jobs only). The following story leads to tragedy.

Thailand has got plenty enough on it's plate with the slow train maintenance schedules (presuming there is an "enforced" schedule to begin with).

[TheNativeSon]

A high speed train makes only sense connecting densely populated areas and the only if the train intervals are rather short and regular, otherwise people choose other transport methods.

If you look at the experience from the shinkansen trains in Japan (from wikipedia) you can see that for long distance (Chiang Mai, South Thailand etc) people choose air over train.

Quote

Compared with air transport, the Shinkansen has several advantages, including scheduling frequency and flexibility, punctual operation, comfortable seats, and convenient city-center terminals.

The Shinkansen system and airlines often compete with each other for the business of city-to-city domestic travelers. If the Shinkansen connects two cities in less than three hours, most passengers choose the Shinkansen, but if it takes more than four hours by Shinkansen, the majority choose air. Some examples are as follows.

Unquote

I agree with streetCowboy. For long distance use an upgraded double track system allowing speeds up to 160 km/h and make it suitable to transport bulk goods. All other ideas are phantasy and the cost of maintaining a high speed train system connecting towns with low income populations creates a tax burden not only for the investment but the maintenance as well. Such a system cannot be operated profitably.

Agree 100%.

It would seem more sensible to double track with metre gauge track and get the benefit of through-running on the new tracks laid through Malaysia as well. They'll save most of the time upgrading the current system to 120 kmh and eliminating the delays at passing places, while that will also benefit freight, and it can be done in incremental steps. SC

This is without a doubt the most sensible comment I have seen so far regarding Thai Rail.

Now, if only the folks in Parliament can stop fighting long enough to do something about it in the interests of Thailand!

Is this just not a small part of the plan China proposed a year or two ago?

I think the point that sank that one was that it did not include Chiang Mai as it would not be feasable but it did allow for a feasibly possible spur to Chiang Rai.

A friend in the travel business told me that the big push next year is to get the hordes of Russians to Hua Hin. He said that Phuket is overloaded and the Russians are liking Hua Hin.

There is a real reason to fear that. Has there been any talk of Pattaya or Phuket receiving benefits from the Russians other than tourist baht. All I hear about them is they bring the Mafia with them. Not Russian bashing just reporting what I hear about them.

Excuse my ignorance, but what does the so-called Russian mafia have to do with the prevailing topic of discussion? Yes, you are Russian bashing. Write about what you "know" to be a fact. Respect the fact that "The Russians" have a strong sense of solidarity (zipped lips), to a survival level of which the Americans, Aussies and British "farangs" never quite seem to fathom. Stay on topic, sir! Thank you,

[TheNativeSon]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

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And I suppose a "genius" like yourself will become a major (investor) beneficiary of that toy, eh?

[StreetCowboy]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

Last I looked, km was for indicating distance, not speed.

And I quote:

"One of the gateways to the South is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line that will only take 1 hour.

One of the high-speed rail lines planned to be constructed is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line, which totals 225 km. and consists of 4 stops: Nakhon Pathom, Phetchaburi, Ratchaburi, and Hua Hin."

Seems llke 225 km in 1 hour to me!

Regardless of the symantics, the French, Germans & Japanese will build it, using SinoThai money. Then turn it over to the Thaithais, to handle the (SinoThai financed) maintenance.

Then the maintenance funds will be skimmed from the top, leaving just enough funds to hire the least educated, most incompetent maintenance technicians (Thai jobs only). The following story leads to tragedy.

Thailand has got plenty enough on it's plate with the slow train maintenance schedules (presuming there is an "enforced" schedule to begin with).

You must know a different BTS and MRT from me.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot - they're in Bangkok, and you're talking about Thailand. The real Thailand.

Edited November 15, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[TheNativeSon]

The project will possible never see the light of day because it seems like a political tool to win the hearts and minds of the people, in light of the governments failure in delivery the Amnesty Bill so far and also having the risk of losing the next election. They would be better off fixing broken promises first by up-grading the long awaited local airport, rather than putting the cart before the horse.

Amen to that

[techboy]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

In the same time that it took you to enter your post you could have accessed the following information on the internet:

"High-speed trains travel at around 275 km/h on average. The fastest conventional high-speed trains are French TGVs. The current TGV speed record is 574.8 kilometres per hour (357.2 mph). Maglev trains are faster, but there are very few in service, mostly as test facilities. The world speed record was set by one at 581 kilometres per hour (361 mph)."

[TheNativeSon]

I don't mean to hate on Thailand and I don't want to be accused of Thai bashing but it strikes me that there are two things that Thailand should NEVER get involved with:

1. Nuclear power.

2. High speed rail.

In general everything that involves high precision and high maintenance. I understand the desire for prestige projects, but one has to learn to crawl before one can walk.

Africa will be on a par level with Thailand (infrastructure) within the next 50-years, thanks to the current Chinese incursion (colonization). Meanwhile, back to the Thailand scenario. Thailand (Siam) was a long established cultural base, 500 years before either the Greek, or the Roman Empires. If the Thais haven't learned to "crawl" by now, what possesses you to believe they ever wiil? Huh?

[mok199]

thus another reason to purchase.....................................................................................medical insurance prior to stepping off the plane in thailand....amazing ''romantic''thailand..; )

[TheNativeSon]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

In the same time that it took you to enter your post you could have accessed the following information on the internet:

"High-speed trains travel at around 275 km/h on average. The fastest conventional high-speed trains are French TGVs. The current TGV speed record is 574.8 kilometres per hour (357.2 mph). Maglev trains are faster, but there are very few in service, mostly as test facilities. The world speed record was set by one at 581 kilometres per hour (361 mph)."

Why not spend less effort "putting-down" other postees, by simply sharing the information, "friend"

[techboy]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

That's something that Thailand has, an abundance of 'idiots who think up or moreover announce these brain dead schemes'

Another post by a member of the species with a more highly evolved intelligence.

[TheNativeSon]

I don't mean to hate on Thailand and I don't want to be accused of Thai bashing but it strikes me that there are two things that Thailand should NEVER get involved with:

1. Nuclear power.

2. High speed rail.

[TheNativeSon]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

That's something that Thailand has, an abundance of 'idiots who think up or moreover announce these brain dead schemes'

Another post by a member of the species with a more highly evolved intelligence.

The entire planet has more than it's fair share of the so-called "highly" evolved intelligent species of people. Duh!

[belg]

why not a high speed train from bangkok to PHUKET ....

no more need for tuk tuk & taxi

[TheNativeSon]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

That's something that Thailand has, an abundance of 'idiots who think up or moreover announce these brain dead schemes'

The Thai government is on a par level with every other gov't on this planet. If you believe the gov't, where you come from, are such geniuses. then why are you not "there", instead of perpetually searching for a life in Thailand? Huh? Chill-out, farang.

[StreetCowboy]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

That's something that Thailand has, an abundance of 'idiots who think up or moreover announce these brain dead schemes'

Another post by a member of the species with a more highly evolved intelligence.

The entire planet has more than it's fair share of the so-called "highly" evolved intelligent species of people. Duh!

At least he can work the 'quote' system

[easyas]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

In the same time that it took you to enter your post you could have accessed the following information on the internet:

"High-speed trains travel at around 275 km/h on average. The fastest conventional high-speed trains are French TGVs. The current TGV speed record is 574.8 kilometres per hour (357.2 mph). Maglev trains are faster, but there are very few in service, mostly as test facilities. The world speed record was set by one at 581 kilometres per hour (361 mph)."

techboy - thanks for your insult! You obviously don't understand the effect on theoretical averages of stopping (you have to brake!) and starting (you have to accelerate!) 3 times over on a relatively short journey.

[easyas]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

In the same time that it took you to enter your post you could have accessed the following information on the internet:

"High-speed trains travel at around 275 km/h on average. The fastest conventional high-speed trains are French TGVs. The current TGV speed record is 574.8 kilometres per hour (357.2 mph). Maglev trains are faster, but there are very few in service, mostly as test facilities. The world speed record was set by one at 581 kilometres per hour (361 mph)."

techboy - thanks for your insult! You obviously don't understand the effect on theoretical averages of stopping (you have to brake!) and starting (you have to accelerate!) 3 times over on a relatively short journey.

[easyas]

techboy - not to mention passengers getting and off!

[TheNativeSon]

I don't mean to hate on Thailand and I don't want to be accused of Thai bashing but it strikes me that there are two things that Thailand should NEVER get involved with:

1. Nuclear power.

2. High speed rail.

high speed rail in this country will NEVER work...costs to high and population to low....another scam to benefit the builders but not the country. So sad that such a great place is run but such people. I wonder how much they paid for their votes?

Thailand is no different from the rest of the world, re: governmant & politics. Anyone refuting that is living the American "Dream".

[hhiser]

Thailand where the government is not transparent, but the politicians are. They are practically drooling over the possible kickbacks from this scheme.

[indyuk]

Apparently there will be high speed train serving the Eastern Seaboard stopping perhaps at Pattaya and Rayong. Pattaya and Phuket have Airports, Hua Hin Does not. They are probably just shuffling the cards to see which of the many destinations under study can produce new cash flow the earliest. We do this in the oil industry at times when there are several production sites in planning. The earlier you can get cash flow the easier it is to fund the overall program.

[rostovru]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

Sent from my C6602 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

I don't think people are doubting the benefits of implementing high speed rail in Thailand. And as you say, Hua Hin to Bangkok in an hour would be great. I think people are more concerned about the safety aspect and whether or not it will be properly maintained. Of course nobody knows for sure but all we can do is look at Thailand's existing rail network where we see stories, almost weekly, of train derailments and other problems.

 

Hope high speed rail in Thailand will be different as, like you say, there are many benefits to be had.

Citing limited problems with the aged train to Chiang Mai as a reason to declare all advancement projects as non-starters is not logical.

If that argument were logical, what exactly would be the appropriate time period for all public transport projects to run without issue before pursuing a new project?

When Thailand decides to do something and commits to it, it generally works beautifully. When it's simply a vehicle for pay offs or political support, the odds decrease.

This project is the former, and Thailand is more than ready for high-end projects like this.

As a side note, look at where most of China is at in terms of safety and development vis-a-vis Thailand, and how high speed rail, among other things, is working just fine while advancing the country.

And if you think Thailand is corrupt, well, China makes it look like the most honest place on Earth...

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[bangarang]

7 years time? Wow... dont hold your breath.

[Emdog]

Whether Thais could run and maintain the system ignores the main objection I have to project: it is grossly obscene use of money that could be better used to upgrade current transport system that should be on life support. Project is only logical when viewed by out of touch hiso rich types, who see being pampered with high tech toys as a God given right. "Sir, the peasants and middle class cannot move in Bangkok, the roads, railways are disasters happening every day!" and he replies "Let them take HSR!"... apologies to Marie A

[DrTuner]

Apparently there will be high speed train serving the Eastern Seaboard stopping perhaps at Pattaya and Rayong. Pattaya and Phuket have Airports, Hua Hin Does not. They are probably just shuffling the cards to see which of the many destinations under study can produce new cash flow the earliest. We do this in the oil industry at times when there are several production sites in planning. The earlier you can get cash flow the easier it is to fund the overall program.

There has been talk of a high speed train to Pattaya every time Ittipol needs to get re-elected. Just hot air, not going to happen. And the "Pattaya" airport is a long way in the sticks, it's actually a military airfield.

[billybatson]

Don't tell anyone but about 100 kilometres south of Hua Him I'd perhaps the nicest beach resort in Thailand. Please don't tell TAT.

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