Ugly restaurant practice in CM

[Frank James]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

If this doesn't qualify as a troll post, what does?

[Paangjang]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

If this doesn't qualify as a troll post, what does?

Did i say something out of turn?

[Chicog]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

If this doesn't qualify as a troll post, what does?

Did i say something out of turn?

You have a point, it's usually the coffin dodgers bleating on about trivial things.

Then again you get curtain twitchers the world over, in the UK they spend all their time writing to the local newspapers complaining about hoodies.

[elektrified]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

These are a lot of unfounded, unprovable assertions.

For the few places that would practice such discrimination, there are many more that would never think of doing so. Thailand in general, except for the crap one sees daily on local TV, honors and respects older people, much more so than Western countries. There, I've just made a sweeping generalization to match yours.

The elderly are treated much better in the West.

[Chicog]

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

You're missing the point. Just like the OP, you're supposed to assume the worst, then come on Thaivisa and complain. If I were a Moderator I'd delete your post and give you a months ban . They'd have nobody posting if your radical ideas caught on.

You'll be promoting peace, love and understanding next if we're not careful.

Having worked in company public relations for many years I know all about customer service and what they expect and in fact it is you who is missing the point by a long shot.

When I decide to eat out in a restaurant, the type of service is very important for me, sometimes even more so than the quality of the meals on the menu.

If the service is unfriendly, bad or simply a take it or leave it attitude, then it mars the whole experience of eating at any particularly restaurant and just like if the food was bad, leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I by no means expect the staff to be grovelling at my table and spoon-feeding me, but I do expect to felt welcomed and treated as a valid customer.

Unfortunately the art of good customer service is being lost by many of these establishments. I do have my few valid what I consider as nice restaurants in Chiang Mai, in which it is a pleasant experience dining at these places and have been their loyal customer for many years, including recommending many others to eat at those restaurants and in turn they have recommended others as well, so it is to the benefit of the owners to offer a reasonable welcoming service for their customers and to ensure that their staff know their jobs. At the end of the day it`s common sense and to the benefit of the owners, their staff and the customers. Of course this also works in reverse, give crap service and the word quickly gets passed around then they end up losing business and money.

Think about it.

If I walked out of every restaurant in Thailand that made the odd mistake I'd be anorexic by now.

[Berkshire]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

These are a lot of unfounded, unprovable assertions.

For the few places that would practice such discrimination, there are many more that would never think of doing so. Thailand in general, except for the crap one sees daily on local TV, honors and respects older people, much more so than Western countries. There, I've just made a sweeping generalization to match yours.

The elderly are treated much better in the West.

No way. I agree with Frank--the elderly are treated much better in Thailand than the west. And I'm not just talking about the young female attention (paid or otherwise). In the west, youth is celebrated. Old folks are expected to step aside and let the young folks have their turn. Old folks are not respected for their opinion or judgement. Society just wants you to go nurse a warm milk on your rocking chair or rot away in some nursing home. It's not that way in Thailand. The youth generally respect their elders here, much more so than the west. The old folks experience and wisdom is held in high regard. If anything, some would suggest that the Thais discriminate against young people, particularly in the workplace.

Of course, you could be talking about how you are treated personally. That, I have no idea.

[Saan]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

If this doesn't qualify as a troll post, what does?

Did i say something out of turn?

Wait until you get to be 60 - if you make it.

[Genericnic]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

If this doesn't qualify as a troll post, what does?

Did i say something out of turn?

Wait until you get to be 60 - if you make it.

@Paangjang,

I think you are right about needed to be in a secure environment. I just turned 64 and spent half of August and all of September traveling across Europe by train from London to Istanbul. I found the trains to be very secure there. Plus I averaged about 6-8 miles a day walking the various cities and environments I was in. And the upcoming live aboard dive trip off the Burma coast will be on a nice secure dive boat. Feel free to come along if you are up to it.

As for help getting home, I managed to make it back to Thailand all on my own. Maybe it isn't quite time for a retirement home for me.

David

[elektrified]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

These are a lot of unfounded, unprovable assertions.

For the few places that would practice such discrimination, there are many more that would never think of doing so. Thailand in general, except for the crap one sees daily on local TV, honors and respects older people, much more so than Western countries. There, I've just made a sweeping generalization to match yours.

The elderly are treated much better in the West.

No way. I agree with Frank--the elderly are treated much better in Thailand than the west. And I'm not just talking about the young female attention (paid or otherwise). In the west, youth is celebrated. Old folks are expected to step aside and let the young folks have their turn. Old folks are not respected for their opinion or judgement. Society just wants you to go nurse a warm milk on your rocking chair or rot away in some nursing home. It's not that way in Thailand. The youth generally respect their elders here, much more so than the west. The old folks experience and wisdom is held in high regard. If anything, some would suggest that the Thais discriminate against young people, particularly in the workplace.

Of course, you could be talking about how you are treated personally. That, I have no idea.

That is ridiculous. Elderly people in Thailand are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day. How many elderly people do you ever see out in public? Hardly any. I'm a ways from being 'old' - perhaps 15-20 years younger than the average TV retiree so it does not apply to me as you intimated.

Youth is celebrated in the West? Youth is celebrated much more here. Old folks in the West are not respected for their opinion or judgement? What country do you come from?

What a bizarre post.

[Berkshire]

These are a lot of unfounded, unprovable assertions.

For the few places that would practice such discrimination, there are many more that would never think of doing so. Thailand in general, except for the crap one sees daily on local TV, honors and respects older people, much more so than Western countries. There, I've just made a sweeping generalization to match yours.

The elderly are treated much better in the West.

No way. I agree with Frank--the elderly are treated much better in Thailand than the west. And I'm not just talking about the young female attention (paid or otherwise). In the west, youth is celebrated. Old folks are expected to step aside and let the young folks have their turn. Old folks are not respected for their opinion or judgement. Society just wants you to go nurse a warm milk on your rocking chair or rot away in some nursing home. It's not that way in Thailand. The youth generally respect their elders here, much more so than the west. The old folks experience and wisdom is held in high regard. If anything, some would suggest that the Thais discriminate against young people, particularly in the workplace.

Of course, you could be talking about how you are treated personally. That, I have no idea.

That is ridiculous. Elderly people in Thailand are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day. How many elderly people do you ever see out in public? Hardly any. I'm a ways from being 'old' - perhaps 15-20 years younger than the average TV retiree so it does not apply to me as you intimated.

Youth is celebrated in the West? Youth is celebrated much more here. Old folks in the West are not respected for their opinion or judgement? What country do you come from?

What a bizarre post.

You can't be serious. I see old folks ALL THE TIME. Usually, they're being affectionately held by a relative. Now if they're 90+ and can barely walk, well of course they're not going to be out and about at Warm-up 2 am.

Let's at least try to be honest on these forums. Sharing with the readership your version of reality doesn't really help anybody. I've got plenty of expat friends who are seniors. Every last one of them love it here...or they wouldn't be here. Disagree if you must, but saying things like you never see the elderly in public, well that's just a flatout untruth.

[MB1]

Not two minutes later we were brusquely asked by another staff person to move to another table as "this table is reserved".

If this happened to me and there was no 'reserved' sign on the table I would simply leave, easy.

If they asked nicely, I would happily move to a smaller table.

Totally agree.

I would never part with any of my money in an establishment where I was given a load of BS and treated like a leper.

What the OP could also have done, was to ask to see the owner`s work permit.

A few years ago I was in a well known Chiang Mai restaurant (won`t give the name) and while eating my meal was asked to move my motorbike from outside in the public road because the farang boss wanted to park there. I objected because I was parked on a public road and in the middle of eating my meal. Then all the staff ganged up on me aggressively nagging to move my bike. The time i got back inside after farting about outside I did not feel like eating anymore, just paid up and left, never to return. I could have just left at the time and not paid the bill, but then I thought, it`s not worth all the hassle if they called the police. But if this would have happened prior to my meal being served, I would have definitely had driven off.

It`s a case of arrogance on behalf of the owners, and as they say; once bitten, 100 times shy and better to keep to the devil we know, rather than take the chances and venture into these places.

Surely you'd have had no problem with the police if they had of been called, nudge nudge wink wink, say no more about contacts in high places eh..

Anyway after being in Thailand for so long Mr Beetle I'd have thought that as being as knowledgeable as you, you'd have just given your bike key to one of the nagging staff ganging up on you and asked him/her to move the bike for you and carried on eating your meal, Thais in my experience seem more than happy to carry out a simple task of moving a bike so boss man can park in his spot...Every one then happy....

[theDukes]

 

I wouldn't put all western restaurant owners into the same category. I saw quite the reverse at Sunday's Loy Krathong party at Dave's River Market. He had reserved the prime tables by the river for his long-time regulars -- most of us are old and none-too-pretty. I suspect most of those groups had bought their tickets early and it seems that they knew enough about Loy Krathong to arrive early.

The film company working on the movie The Coup had also reserved a large number of tables -- at least 40 or 50 places. Those tables were empty for a long time and finally about 15-18 people arrived -- all young, slim, beautiful Hollywood types. They seemed incredulous that they hadn't been given the prime tables near the river and that those tables were occupied by us oldsters. At the time, I was holding down our table for 8 by myself because others in our group were off launching their krathongs and khom loys. I made the mistake of saying to two of them they could stand by ourtable for a while, thinking they wanted to take pictures or something. Before I knew it, the table was swarmed with about a dozen impossibly thin, beautiful and rude people who glared at me from time-to-time wondering why I was sitting at "their" table. Finally, I got a little ugly and chased them back to their less desirable empty tables.

I should point out that Owen Wilson was not in this little mob -- he stayed at their assigned tables and got up to walk around and took advantage of the many chairs that Dave had set up near the river for those whose tables inside the restaurant didn't afford as good a view of the fireworks.

So please, don't brand Dave and River Market/Duke's as someone who only wants young, beautiful people hanging out at his places. He values repeat business.

You were lucky. About 6 weeks ago I emailed River Market wanting to book a table for 8 for Loy Krathong. No reply. So I sent another email which also failed to garner a response. I gave them away after that and did something else. Maybe someone told them I was old and ugly.

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

One maybe two no,..Only reason then is someone in the office is not on the ball.

 

I checked [email protected] and [email protected]. Both E mail addresses worked fine. We receive very few emails and all emails for events or bookings are passed on to Nan our great event manager. We are booking on average 4-5 events a week during this high season and Nan is doing a great job.

I would check the address that you sent the email to. In any event you should have come by and made the reservation. We had 250+ people that night including the Living Films Crew and Owen Wilson. It was a great night for the customers and a lot of work for us.

Nancy had seats at her table available due to a cancellation and we had some seats that were available due to people moving to the lawn.

We chose not to sell the available seats but for a really good ThaiVisa member we probably would have made an exception.

Dave

[wolf5370]

Could it not just have been as stated - that someone had reserved the table?

[hellodolly]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

These are a lot of unfounded, unprovable assertions.

For the few places that would practice such discrimination, there are many more that would never think of doing so. Thailand in general, except for the crap one sees daily on local TV, honors and respects older people, much more so than Western countries. There, I've just made a sweeping generalization to match yours.

The elderly are treated much better in the West.

No way. I agree with Frank--the elderly are treated much better in Thailand than the west. And I'm not just talking about the young female attention (paid or otherwise). In the west, youth is celebrated. Old folks are expected to step aside and let the young folks have their turn. Old folks are not respected for their opinion or judgement. Society just wants you to go nurse a warm milk on your rocking chair or rot away in some nursing home. It's not that way in Thailand. The youth generally respect their elders here, much more so than the west. The old folks experience and wisdom is held in high regard. If anything, some would suggest that the Thais discriminate against young people, particularly in the workplace.

Of course, you could be talking about how you are treated personally. That, I have no idea.

Or the way he treats others

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

If this doesn't qualify as a troll post, what does?

The original post?

I'm always a bit jealous when people pull it off like that.

[dundas]

Well,it's been a fun run.

I'm grateful for all the people who engaged with the issue - I learned a bit of context: that Dave and the Riverside treat their older clients just fine, and that at least one person has an idea about the nature of customer service.

I also didn't mind being challenged on how valid my conclusions were. Then again, show me an establishment with a written policy of discrimination posted on the door, and I'll buy you lunch (somewhere else).

As for the people in the peanut gallery who like to throw stones at individuals, frothing sarcasm falling from their mouths, I'd like to join you again, briefly, and suggest you have another drink. No, thanks, I won't be joining you !

[hellodolly]

Well,it's been a fun run.

I'm grateful for all the people who engaged with the issue - I learned a bit of context: that Dave and the Riverside treat their older clients just fine, and that at least one person has an idea about the nature of customer service.

I also didn't mind being challenged on how valid my conclusions were. Then again, show me an establishment with a written policy of discrimination posted on the door, and I'll buy you lunch (somewhere else).

As for the people in the peanut gallery who like to throw stones at individuals, frothing sarcasm falling from their mouths, I'd like to join you again, briefly, and suggest you have another drink. No, thanks, I won't be joining you !

The fact it happened to you once in one restaurant and you call it a trend goes right over your head.

Unbelievable.

[dundas]

The restaurant chain in Sydney that had this as policy were only outed because staff went to the media. When newspapers called the head office, the management went to ground. It is an indefensible policy; no-one would defend it or even admit to it: "I'm sorry, sir, you are being seated down the back because you are old and ugly."

You might also google this term: "French restaurant group accused of seating good-looking patrons in best seats."

Or this: "Restaurants may seat guests according to looks. Surprise, surprise."

Enjoy!

[uptheos]

The restaurant chain in Sydney that had this as policy were only outed because staff went to the media. When newspapers called the head office, the management went to ground. It is an indefensible policy; no-one would defend it or even admit to it.

Can't trust those Aussie restaurants.

[beau thai]

Isn't it amazing that an original topic that is rather pathetic (putting it mildly) and on a noteworthiness scale of 1 to 100 rates about minus 50, has now run to 4 pages??

Note to self: Get out more and read TV less!! (or at least some threads...)

[hellodolly]

The restaurant chain in Sydney that had this as policy were only outed because staff went to the media. When newspapers called the head office, the management went to ground. It is an indefensible policy; no-one would defend it or even admit to it: "I'm sorry, sir, you are being seated down the back because you are old and ugly."

You might also google this term: "French restaurant group accused of seating good-looking patrons in best seats."

Or this: "Restaurants may seat guests according to looks. Surprise, surprise."

Enjoy!

It is not nice to discriminate against old people. I had to go look out the window to see if I was in Australia or France. It really worried me because I don't have visa for either one of them.

Lucky for me I am still in Chiang Mai where there is a trend starting to help old people up the steps at the movie theater. I know this for a fact because it happened to me at the airport theater. One of the attendants held my arm as I went up the stairs.

New trend starting.

I am not that good at rersearch on Google it is a trend against old people but I do know that what ever you want to believe you can find it on google. Yes there are snobbish restaurants the world over. Get dressed up in a tuxedo and I can take you to some where they will just laugh at you. Probably put you in the most visable spot so more people can laugh at you.

[AngelsLariat]

The restaurant chain in Sydney that had this as policy were only outed because staff went to the media. When newspapers called the head office, the management went to ground. It is an indefensible policy; no-one would defend it or even admit to it: "I'm sorry, sir, you are being seated down the back because you are old and ugly."

You might also google this term: "French restaurant group accused of seating good-looking patrons in best seats."

Or this: "Restaurants may seat guests according to looks. Surprise, surprise."

Enjoy!

Even if we assume that you were discriminated against, from what you've written it's not very clear why you assume that it was because of ugliness and age rather than because of some other factor. Maybe if you posted a picture of yourself and your partner your story would be more convincing.

[Rotweiler]

sigh... don't you all see you have been trolled... and caught... hook, line and stinker...

[Jose]

Dedicated to all discerning CM restauranteurs:

[Saan]

 

amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

I checked [email protected] and [email protected]. Both E mail addresses worked fine. We receive very few emails and all emails for events or bookings are passed on to Nan our great event manager. We are booking on average 4-5 events a week during this high season and Nan is doing a great job.

I would check the address that you sent the email to. In any event you should have come by and made the reservation. We had 250+ people that night including the Living Films Crew and Owen Wilson. It was a great night for the customers and a lot of work for us.

Nancy had seats at her table available due to a cancellation and we had some seats that were available due to people moving to the lawn.

We chose not to sell the available seats but for a really good ThaiVisa member we probably would have made an exception.

Dave

I filled in River Markets contact form, all the required fields, and hit send email. I see that the email address is not one of the above but [email protected]. Maybe there is a complication with your email addresses as that is the only one shown on your website under 'contact us'.

[elektrified]

 

amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

I checked [email protected] and [email protected]. Both E mail addresses worked fine. We receive very few emails and all emails for events or bookings are passed on to Nan our great event manager. We are booking on average 4-5 events a week during this high season and Nan is doing a great job.

I would check the address that you sent the email to. In any event you should have come by and made the reservation. We had 250+ people that night including the Living Films Crew and Owen Wilson. It was a great night for the customers and a lot of work for us.

Nancy had seats at her table available due to a cancellation and we had some seats that were available due to people moving to the lawn.

We chose not to sell the available seats but for a really good ThaiVisa member we probably would have made an exception.

Dave

I filled in River Markets contact form, all the required fields, and hit send email. I see that the email address is not one of the above but [email protected]. Maybe there is a complication with your email addresses as that is the only one shown on your website under 'contact us'.

Did you pick up the telephone and call? Why bother with email if there is a phone number? If you need to get something accomplished you need to call. English spoken (quite well in fact) at all of Dave's restaurants.

[Berkshire]

The restaurant chain in Sydney that had this as policy were only outed because staff went to the media. When newspapers called the head office, the management went to ground. It is an indefensible policy; no-one would defend it or even admit to it: "I'm sorry, sir, you are being seated down the back because you are old and ugly."

You might also google this term: "French restaurant group accused of seating good-looking patrons in best seats."

Or this: "Restaurants may seat guests according to looks. Surprise, surprise."

Enjoy!

I actually googled that French restaurant incident and yes, it appears to be true. And I have no reason to doubt your Sydney story. So that's how you managed to come to this conclusion in Chiang Mai? But I should remind you that this is Thailand and I've never heard of such a thing occurring here. This reminds of the "farang factor" in Thailand, where some farangs think that every time they're slighted or wronged, it was because they are a farang. In your case, I hope you don't go around with a chip-on-your-shoulder, thinking that every negative incident occurred because of your age or appearance. Tough to go through life that way.

[theDukes]

 

 

amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

I checked [email protected] and [email protected]. Both E mail addresses worked fine. We receive very few emails and all emails for events or bookings are passed on to Nan our great event manager. We are booking on average 4-5 events a week during this high season and Nan is doing a great job.

I would check the address that you sent the email to. In any event you should have come by and made the reservation. We had 250+ people that night including the Living Films Crew and Owen Wilson. It was a great night for the customers and a lot of work for us.

Nancy had seats at her table available due to a cancellation and we had some seats that were available due to people moving to the lawn.

We chose not to sell the available seats but for a really good ThaiVisa member we probably would have made an exception.

Dave

I filled in River Markets contact form, all the required fields, and hit send email. I see that the email address is not one of the above but [email protected]. Maybe there is a complication with your email addresses as that is the only one shown on your website under 'contact us'.

 

I also looked at the contact form and sent a message and do not know where it went. Thank you for bringing to our attention. I didn't build the web site and who knows where this contact goes. Sorry about that. We will fix it. There has probably been a bunch of miscommunication since the site has gone up 1-1/2 years ago. I owe you a dinner.

Dave

[scottishjohn]

Well,it's been a fun run.

I'm grateful for all the people who engaged with the issue - I learned a bit of context: that Dave and the Riverside treat their older clients just fine, and that at least one person has an idea about the nature of customer service.

I also didn't mind being challenged on how valid my conclusions were. Then again, show me an establishment with a written policy of discrimination posted on the door, and I'll buy you lunch (somewhere else).

As for the people in the peanut gallery who like to throw stones at individuals, frothing sarcasm falling from their mouths, I'd like to join you again, briefly, and suggest you have another drink. No, thanks, I won't be joining you !

If you really are so grateful for all the people who engaged with 'the issue' & also didn't mind being challenged on how valid my (your) conclusions were why have you not responded to my questions on Post #36.

I'm sure the respones would be welome by us all! or would the answers shoot down your ugly/trending claims.

Please respond.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I'm intrigued as to which Farang managed cafe on moon muang it was. My guess is that it isn't Mad Dog somehow. Any ideas?