Ugly restaurant practice in CM

[naboo]

What the OP could also have done, was to ask to see the owner`s work permit.

I do love the obscure nature of your posts BJ. I used to think you were annoying, but realise now you're actually quite funny.

OP, paranoia is not good for you. Relax a little.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Beetlejuice, you don't really think it was because he was ugly do you? Even a haughty farang, if such people exist, are not that daft. Other than an exclusive Hollywood nightclub and Chiang Mai's own Mandalay bar, no one is that stupid.

My guess is that the only reason they went in was to get out of the rain and they took a big table in the best spot on what would have been one of his busiest day of the year and ordered a bottle of water under the understanding that that entitled him to sit there for the duration of the procession. Such people do exist, and he didn't mention ordering food.

People are talking about his ugly bug theory as if it was fact, which even by his own admission it isn't. It is assuming-the-worst-about-people nonsense that is so common here as is the assumption that farang bar/restaurant owners are rude and arrogant and don't have a work permit (which shouldn't concern the customers anyway). They possibly are rude to the miserable tight-arsed expats, who are a minority, but to most customers I'm sure they're sweet as pie. They wouldn't be in business otherwise.

You need to have been in that business to appreciate the annoying customers that you get. Unsurprisingly the miserable, moaning customers are by definition bound to get the worst service, but they'll never quite understand why, so they'll come up with some ridiculous explanation like it was because I'm ugly.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Chiengmaijoe

[northernjohn]

I suppose the responses are split between those who have an idea of what I'm talking about and those who think i'm a negative whining whatever ...

I describe what I experienced. I don't feel the need to defend myself. You can call me for what you like.

And well, this is the first time I've aroused the famed TV mentality I've read about so often. Quite an experience!

Thank you all.

Well I was just wondering if it was worth it but this particular post makes it worth it.

You described one experience you have had in three years according to your register date on the forum.

You then proceed to call it a trend.

I was walking across the iron bridge one night when a fellow on the side walk asked me where I was going. He was on a motor bike going against the traffic. A common occurrence on that bridge. and I was young at the time 70. I told him it was just a short distance and he offered me a ride.

Shall I start a thread about this being a trend?

I like you am sharing my experience.

[Beetlejuice]

What the OP could also have done, was to ask to see the owner`s work permit.

I do love the obscure nature of your posts BJ. I used to think you were annoying, but realise now you're actually quite funny.

OP, paranoia is not good for you. Relax a little.

I know much of what goes on in Chiang Mai and I can tell you that many of these so-called farang business owners are hiding behind the names of their Thai wives or other Thais and that they cannot afford to have problems, and this is something customers should keep in mind if they try to pull the old power trip over them. That`s another story for another thread.

I do not consider the OP as being paranoid regarding his treatment in that restaurant and he does has a valid complaint. All he is doing is stating his case and definitely not over the top as you are suggesting.

Perhaps some of those on here who are objecting to the OP the most are restaurant owners who run their businesses on the same lines? Now hows that for paranoia?

Edited November 19, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[Chicog]

I wouldn't put all western restaurant owners into the same category. I saw quite the reverse at Sunday's Loy Krathong party at Dave's River Market. He had reserved the prime tables by the river for his long-time regulars -- most of us are old and none-too-pretty. I suspect most of those groups had bought their tickets early and it seems that they knew enough about Loy Krathong to arrive early.

The film company working on the movie The Coup had also reserved a large number of tables -- at least 40 or 50 places. Those tables were empty for a long time and finally about 15-18 people arrived -- all young, slim, beautiful Hollywood types. They seemed incredulous that they hadn't been given the prime tables near the river and that those tables were occupied by us oldsters. At the time, I was holding down our table for 8 by myself because others in our group were off launching their krathongs and khom loys. I made the mistake of saying to two of them they could stand by ourtable for a while, thinking they wanted to take pictures or something. Before I knew it, the table was swarmed with about a dozen impossibly thin, beautiful and rude people who glared at me from time-to-time wondering why I was sitting at "their" table. Finally, I got a little ugly and chased them back to their less desirable empty tables.

I should point out that Owen Wilson was not in this little mob -- he stayed at their assigned tables and got up to walk around and took advantage of the many chairs that Dave had set up near the river for those whose tables inside the restaurant didn't afford as good a view of the fireworks.

So please, don't brand Dave and River Market/Duke's as someone who only wants young, beautiful people hanging out at his places. He values repeat business.

You were lucky. About 6 weeks ago I emailed River Market wanting to book a table for 8 for Loy Krathong. No reply. So I sent another email which also failed to garner a response. I gave them away after that and did something else. Maybe someone told them I was old and ugly.

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

[scottishjohn]

Can I please make the following observations to the OP and welcome the OP's response. It may clear up some of the comments above.

You; I asked if we could sit at the table near the sidewalk and the entrance, no problem.

Me; Why did you ask if you could sit at that seat/table. Most people just sit down at a vacant table and either ask for a menu or give an order to the staff when they arrive. Did you give the staff a food/drinks order. A glass of water between two or a three course meal for two?

You; Not two minutes later we were brusquely asked by another staff person to move to another table as "this table is reserved."

Me; Where was this table. Was it on the sidewalk or inside. Was it a table for 2 or 4 or more

You; We sat there for a good ten minutes before another couple came in off the street.

Me; Dis anyone else come in. If they did come in did they walk pat the table.

You; We were paying customers.

Me; Did the staff know this when you asked for the table

You; I can't prove anything but everything that happened to us was consistent with the trend: Then I looked behind the bar to see the owner, a farang man who presumably has latched onto the latest restaurant trend: second class seating for older people.

Me; If you cant prove anything, why make this post?

You; He avoided all eye contact

Me; If you were so upset that you felt you had to make this post, why did you not go up to the owner, make eye contact and ask for an explanation?

[Chiengmaijoe]

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

You're missing the point. Just like the OP, you're supposed to assume the worst, then come on Thaivisa and complain. If I were a Moderator I'd delete your post and give you a months ban . They'd have nobody posting if your radical ideas caught on.

You'll be promoting peace, love and understanding next if we're not careful.

[Beetlejuice]

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

You're missing the point. Just like the OP, you're supposed to assume the worst, then come on Thaivisa and complain. If I were a Moderator I'd delete your post and give you a months ban . They'd have nobody posting if your radical ideas caught on.

You'll be promoting peace, love and understanding next if we're not careful.

Having worked in company public relations for many years I know all about customer service and what they expect and in fact it is you who is missing the point by a long shot.

When I decide to eat out in a restaurant, the type of service is very important for me, sometimes even more so than the quality of the meals on the menu.

If the service is unfriendly, bad or simply a take it or leave it attitude, then it mars the whole experience of eating at any particularly restaurant and just like if the food was bad, leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I by no means expect the staff to be grovelling at my table and spoon-feeding me, but I do expect to felt welcomed and treated as a valid customer.

Unfortunately the art of good customer service is being lost by many of these establishments. I do have my few valid what I consider as nice restaurants in Chiang Mai, in which it is a pleasant experience dining at these places and have been their loyal customer for many years, including recommending many others to eat at those restaurants and in turn they have recommended others as well, so it is to the benefit of the owners to offer a reasonable welcoming service for their customers and to ensure that their staff know their jobs. At the end of the day it`s common sense and to the benefit of the owners, their staff and the customers. Of course this also works in reverse, give crap service and the word quickly gets passed around then they end up losing business and money.

Think about it.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[MAJIC]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

Surely you don't believe your own pretentious nonsense? If so then you have my sincere sympathies, for being easily impressed!

[Chiengmaijoe]

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

You're missing the point. Just like the OP, you're supposed to assume the worst, then come on Thaivisa and complain. If I were a Moderator I'd delete your post and give you a months ban . They'd have nobody posting if your radical ideas caught on.

You'll be promoting peace, love and understanding next if we're not careful.

Having worked in company public relations for many years I know all about customer service and what they expect and in fact it is you who is missing the point by a long shot.

When I decide to eat out in a restaurant, the type of service is very important for me, sometimes even more so than the quality of the meals on the menu.

If the service is unfriendly, bad or simply a take it or leave it attitude, then it mars the whole experience of eating at any particularly restaurant and just like if the food was bad, leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I by no means expect the staff to be grovelling at my table and spoon-feeding me, but I do expect to felt welcomed and treated as a valid customer.

Unfortunately the art of good customer service is being lost by many of these establishments. I do have my few valid what I consider as nice restaurants in Chiang Mai, in which it is a pleasant experience dining at these places and have been their loyal customer for many years, including recommending many others to eat at those restaurants and in turn they have recommended others as well, so it is to the benefit of the owners to offer a reasonable welcoming service for their customers and to ensure that their staff know their jobs. At the end of the day it`s common sense and to the benefit of the owners, their staff and the customers. Of course this also works in reverse, give crap service and the word quickly gets passed around then they end up losing business and money.

Think about it.

Your stating the obvious. The only point I and a few others have made is to perhaps give the owner a chance to either explain the situation or if need be apologise. He didn't as much as make eye contact with him. "It was because I'm ugly" is so ridiculous as to be laughable. I can barely type those words without chuckling and yet he wants us to take him seriously!! Not many people have.

[Thighlander]

One is more likely to find what is wrong with Thailand, than what is right on Moon Mueng. After 10 years, and still loving partying, I only go to MM for very good dentist/doctor. Even the fruit cart in front of the 7-11 is underhanded; smallest portions in Thailand, and they always have some over ripe <deleted> they are unloading on unsuspecting foreigner. I'll pass on the old geyser club, and the bring their kids to the bar club.

[mesquite]

OP, Have you considered posting your experience on tripadvisor ?

[dundas]

Hahaha, I didn't know what I had unleashed.

I wrote the post because I despise differential treatment in any form, regardless of whether I am the victim or not. And yes I know it happens and in some cases has to happen, but not in my opinion the way it did here.

I was writing about the art of hospitality (or lack of) and the spirit of generosity (or lack of). What I got from some posters was the famed TV anonymous abuse and personal invective. Fair enough, but (joining you for just a minute in the spirit of your own contributions) may I suggest you find something else to do while you're on Day Release?

As for the owner of the cafe, I'd like to suggest that he learn how to train his staff so that they are less brusque, more efficient (20 minutes and interminable visits back to the table to sort out the order - for two drinks!), and that they observe proper hygiene (my mango shake was the only thing I had different from my partner that night, and I was the one who woke up in the morning with diarrhoea). I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, I probably will review the place on Trip Advisor, but I will focus on the chaotic service, rather than the accusation I made here. Trip Advisor is a different story.

[onthedarkside]

Off topic troll removed

[Dante99]

Hahaha, I didn't know what I had unleashed.

I wrote the post because I despise differential treatment in any form, regardless of whether I am the victim or not. And yes I know it happens and in some cases has to happen, but not in my opinion the way it did here.

I was writing about the art of hospitality (or lack of) and the spirit of generosity (or lack of). What I got from some posters was the famed TV anonymous abuse and personal invective. Fair enough, but (joining you for just a minute in the spirit of your own contributions) may I suggest you find something else to do while you're on Day Release?

As for the owner of the cafe, I'd like to suggest that he learn how to train his staff so that they are less brusque, more efficient (20 minutes and interminable visits back to the table to sort out the order - for two drinks!), and that they observe proper hygiene (my mango shake was the only thing I had different from my partner that night, and I was the one who woke up in the morning with diarrhoea). I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, I probably will review the place on Trip Advisor, but I will focus on the chaotic service, rather than the accusation I made here. Trip Advisor is a different story.

So you start with a seating issue and now add a sanitation issue. How about putting it all on the table? Also how about talking with the owner about your problems, perhaps he can sort you.

[Saan]

I wouldn't put all western restaurant owners into the same category. I saw quite the reverse at Sunday's Loy Krathong party at Dave's River Market. He had reserved the prime tables by the river for his long-time regulars -- most of us are old and none-too-pretty. I suspect most of those groups had bought their tickets early and it seems that they knew enough about Loy Krathong to arrive early.

The film company working on the movie The Coup had also reserved a large number of tables -- at least 40 or 50 places. Those tables were empty for a long time and finally about 15-18 people arrived -- all young, slim, beautiful Hollywood types. They seemed incredulous that they hadn't been given the prime tables near the river and that those tables were occupied by us oldsters. At the time, I was holding down our table for 8 by myself because others in our group were off launching their krathongs and khom loys. I made the mistake of saying to two of them they could stand by ourtable for a while, thinking they wanted to take pictures or something. Before I knew it, the table was swarmed with about a dozen impossibly thin, beautiful and rude people who glared at me from time-to-time wondering why I was sitting at "their" table. Finally, I got a little ugly and chased them back to their less desirable empty tables.

I should point out that Owen Wilson was not in this little mob -- he stayed at their assigned tables and got up to walk around and took advantage of the many chairs that Dave had set up near the river for those whose tables inside the restaurant didn't afford as good a view of the fireworks.

So please, don't brand Dave and River Market/Duke's as someone who only wants young, beautiful people hanging out at his places. He values repeat business.

You were lucky. About 6 weeks ago I emailed River Market wanting to book a table for 8 for Loy Krathong. No reply. So I sent another email which also failed to garner a response. I gave them away after that and did something else. Maybe someone told them I was old and ugly.

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

River Market provides a contact form on their website inviting you to contact them by email through their site. I prefer not to ring as I find on the phone my limited Thai or the other ends limited English does not lead to good communication. Emails can clearly lay out your enquiry and can be shown to someone who understands English well if there is any problem. They should not go astray if an office is run correctly. I just figured they were booked out and couldn't be bothered letting me know.

[hellodolly]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

Surely you don't believe your own pretentious nonsense? If so then you have my sincere sympathies, for being easily impressed!

He believes it.

[hellodolly]

Hahaha, I didn't know what I had unleashed.

I wrote the post because I despise differential treatment in any form, regardless of whether I am the victim or not. And yes I know it happens and in some cases has to happen, but not in my opinion the way it did here.

I was writing about the art of hospitality (or lack of) and the spirit of generosity (or lack of). What I got from some posters was the famed TV anonymous abuse and personal invective. Fair enough, but (joining you for just a minute in the spirit of your own contributions) may I suggest you find something else to do while you're on Day Release?

As for the owner of the cafe, I'd like to suggest that he learn how to train his staff so that they are less brusque, more efficient (20 minutes and interminable visits back to the table to sort out the order - for two drinks!), and that they observe proper hygiene (my mango shake was the only thing I had different from my partner that night, and I was the one who woke up in the morning with diarrhoea). I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, I probably will review the place on Trip Advisor, but I will focus on the chaotic service, rather than the accusation I made here. Trip Advisor is a different story.

You continue to baffle me one bad experience and you run to Thai Visa and claim there is a trend.

[wooloomooloo]

Macdonalds have a lot to answer for.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[steelepulse]

Mountain and molehill come to mind here. Looks like OP admitted he only ordered two low cost drinks to get out of the rain. OP did you ever inquire as to if the folks that sat at the reserved table were indeed the people that the table was reserved for, or if staff simply slagged you off? If you didn't ask, you'll never know and will carry a chip on your shoulder when you shouldn't be getting your blood pressure raised up.

[younghansomeman]

slowly but slowly chiang mai slips into the inevitable habits of our neighbors to the south. i already cut down my time in chiang mai to part time and i'm looking for the "next" expat haven. one thing i know they will be speaking spanish there.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NancyL]

I'm pleasantly surprised when businesses in Thailand, especially fairly small ones, reply to emails sent via their website. We made our reservations for Loy Krathong and purchased our tickets at River Market in person. That's the way I prefer to arrange doctor's appointments, theater seats, airline/train reservations, restaurant reservations, holiday turkey deliveries, etc. Just removes another chance for misunderstanding to arrange these things in person. Yes, it helps that I'm retired and have time available!

[Ulysses G.]

i'm looking for the "next" expat haven.

What do you care? You are still a younghansomeman. They would have saved the table for you. You do not want to be making pizza in Paraguay.

[coma]

Sounds to me like a simple case of misunderstanding on the OP's part. If not then a little paranoia. This sort of thing happens all the time for apparently no reason, when there generally is one. However trivial it may be.

Older people always receive the highest of respect here in Thailand regardless of race as it is embedded in Thai culture.

[coma]

slowly but slowly chiang mai slips into the inevitable habits of our neighbors to the south. i already cut down my time in chiang mai to part time and i'm looking for the "next" expat haven. one thing i know they will be speaking spanish there.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Any chance of going full time soon ???

[harrry]

I wouldn't put all western restaurant owners into the same category. I saw quite the reverse at Sunday's Loy Krathong party at Dave's River Market. He had reserved the prime tables by the river for his long-time regulars -- most of us are old and none-too-pretty. I suspect most of those groups had bought their tickets early and it seems that they knew enough about Loy Krathong to arrive early.

The film company working on the movie The Coup had also reserved a large number of tables -- at least 40 or 50 places. Those tables were empty for a long time and finally about 15-18 people arrived -- all young, slim, beautiful Hollywood types. They seemed incredulous that they hadn't been given the prime tables near the river and that those tables were occupied by us oldsters. At the time, I was holding down our table for 8 by myself because others in our group were off launching their krathongs and khom loys. I made the mistake of saying to two of them they could stand by ourtable for a while, thinking they wanted to take pictures or something. Before I knew it, the table was swarmed with about a dozen impossibly thin, beautiful and rude people who glared at me from time-to-time wondering why I was sitting at "their" table. Finally, I got a little ugly and chased them back to their less desirable empty tables.

I should point out that Owen Wilson was not in this little mob -- he stayed at their assigned tables and got up to walk around and took advantage of the many chairs that Dave had set up near the river for those whose tables inside the restaurant didn't afford as good a view of the fireworks.

So please, don't brand Dave and River Market/Duke's as someone who only wants young, beautiful people hanging out at his places. He values repeat business.

You were lucky. About 6 weeks ago I emailed River Market wanting to book a table for 8 for Loy Krathong. No reply. So I sent another email which also failed to garner a response. I gave them away after that and did something else. Maybe someone told them I was old and ugly.

If I didn't get a reply to the email, I'd give them a call, but that's just me. All sorts of reasons why emails go astray.

One maybe two no,..Only reason then is someone in the office is not on the ball.

[hellodolly]

I'm pleasantly surprised when businesses in Thailand, especially fairly small ones, reply to emails sent via their website. We made our reservations for Loy Krathong and purchased our tickets at River Market in person. That's the way I prefer to arrange doctor's appointments, theater seats, airline/train reservations, restaurant reservations, holiday turkey deliveries, etc. Just removes another chance for misunderstanding to arrange these things in person. Yes, it helps that I'm retired and have time available!

I am with you Nancy.

It always baffels me these retired people with no time to do any thing. On the other hand I remember my first few years I some times thought of getting a job so I could have some time for myself. It takes some of us a while to realize that ha we are OK people we don't always have to be going here and going there or helping so and so it is OK to enjoy are selves.

[Paangjang]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

[NancyL]

If your over 60 you should be in a secure environment, like a retirement home. Not let loose to rome the streets and get confused about table etiquette. Like i say, an eyesore... See your embassy or family for help getting you home.

My goodness, this piece of advice is going to clear the streets, sidewalks, bars and restaurants of Chiang Mai substantially!

Edited November 20, 2013 by NancyL

[Frank James]

In Thailand being young, slim and beautiful/handsome, nicely dressed, nice hairstyle, expensive mobiles, etc. is No.1. You could live in a 2.5K THB per month rat hole rental unit, and have 5,000 THB in the bank. But if you are young, show up in a nice new, shiny car, slim and nicely dressed - that s what impresses people. That alone will get you the better table, the ladies, the boys, whatever. The older, unattractive family members (often quite rich) are locked away in a back room at home where no one can see them except for the one day a year out on Mother's or Father's Day.

OP if you don't know this, then you don't understand Thailand. And, furthermore with the changing demographics, farangs, especially older ones have become less important to Thailand's economy. Get used to it. These are changing times.

These are a lot of unfounded, unprovable assertions.

For the few places that would practice such discrimination, there are many more that would never think of doing so. Thailand in general, except for the crap one sees daily on local TV, honors and respects older people, much more so than Western countries. There, I've just made a sweeping generalization to match yours.