Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[News_Editor]

EDINBURGH, SCOTLAND (BNO NEWS) -- Scotland will break away from the United Kingdom and become an independent country in March 2016 if voters approve next year's referendum on the issue, the Scottish government announced on Sunday, even though polls continue to indicate such an event is unlikely at the moment.

The proposed date of independence is included in the Scottish government's white paper which will be published on Tuesday. March 24, 2016, follows the dissolution of the current Scottish Parliament which is expected to take place at 11:59 p.m. the day before. March 24 is also the anniversary of both the Union of the Crowns in 1603 and the signing of the Acts of Union in 1707.

Scottish Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon described the white paper as "the most detailed and comprehensive blueprint" ever published for an independent country as it runs to 670 pages with more than 170,000 words. It sets out, in five parts and over the course of 10 chapters, the independence prospectus on which people will vote in the referendum on September 18 next year.

"It is a landmark document which sets out the economic, social and democratic case for independence," Sturgeon said. "It demonstrates Scotland's financial strengths and details how we will become independent - the negotiations, preparations and agreements that will be required in the transition period from a vote for independence in September next year to our proposed Independence Day of 24th March 2016 and in time for the first elections to an independent Scottish Parliament in May of that year."

The white sheet, which will first be presented at the Glasgow Science Center, will be available to anyone who requests a hard copy and has also been produced in tablet size to make it easy to read for voters, who can download the document as an e-book. A summary of the document will also be available in print and online.

"The guide describes what a newly independent Scotland will look like," Sturgeon explained. "It illustrates how the powers of independence can be used to benefit individuals, families, communities and the nation as a whole - and it answers a range of detailed questions that we have been asked."

The deputy first minister encouraged everyone in Scotland to get a copy of the document and use it to make a decision for next year's referendum. "The document is very deliberately designed to be accessible and readable and it will be widely available to the public, with further details being made public in due course," she added. "We want as many households in Scotland as possible to have a copy."

In October 2012, British Prime Minister David Cameron and Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond signed the historic "Edinburgh Agreement" which grants the Scottish government the special powers necessary for an independence referendum. It followed months of negotiations on the specific details of the agreement.

Alistair Carmichael, the UK's Secretary of State for Scotland, on Friday urged Scottish voters to make sure they have all the facts they need to make an informed choice for the referendum. "There's now less than a year to go until voters in Scotland make what will be one of the most important decisions of their lives," he said.

Carmichael added: "Nobody should be under any illusions about the importance of this vote. If Scotland decides to go it alone then this will be an irreversible decision so it's certainly not something to undertake lightly. With time fast running out, it's important that people make sure they're up to speed and have all the facts they need."

Cameron has vowed to keep the United Kingdom united, and there are signs that support among Scots for independence continues to slip. A survey released by pollsters TNS-BMRB earlier this month indicates only 25 percent of Scots are currently in favor of Scotland becoming an independent state, while 43 percent of those asked said they are not in favor of independence.

But about 32 percent of Scots indicated they are still unsure about what they will vote, and half of all voters first want more information on the economy and employment in order to make a final decision. More than a third of voters also want to know more about pensions and benefits while 31 percent is looking for more information on taxes.

"Having previously highlighted that many feel they are lacking information, this poll clearly shows that the financial issues are of greatest concern to the voters," said Tom Costley, head of TNS Scotland. "The high number of don't knows suggests that both sides need to do much more to ensure that people are confident about the implications of their vote for their financial future."

The survey also suggested that the referendum could be set for a high turnout, with approximately 66 percent of adults saying they are certain to vote, and a further 14 percent very likely to vote. This compares with a turnout of 50.4 percent in the 2011 elections to the Scottish parliament, and the 63.8 percent Scottish turnout in the 2010 general election.

(Copyright 2013 by BNO News B.V. All rights reserved. Info: [email protected].)

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[Chicog]

I think they want to know if they will still get their free handouts from the Palace of Westminster before they commit to it.

[coma]

I think the referendum is a slam dunk.

[7by7]

The document will make interesting reading when it is published on Tuesday; not least in picking out the assumptions the SNP have based it on.

For example; the 'cast iron guarantee' Salmond gave about Scotland maintaining a currency union with the UK ; a cast iron guarantee which Colin McKay, SNP's strategy chief, has now admitted cannot be given!

And why should it? Why should the UK stand by to bail out an independent Scotland?

If an independent Scotland does retain currency union with the UK Scotland would have to bow to Westminster in all fiscal policy; that's not independence.

But the EU have said that an independent Scotland would not automatically become a member of the EU, which the SNP want; but would have to apply for membership. One of the conditions of which would be joining the Euro!

So, Mr. Salmond; how's that going to work?

[RickBradford]

^^^

Currency-wise, surely upon independence, Scotland will immediately re-introduce the groat and the bawbee.

Quoth he, "My goddess, nymph, and queen,

Your beauty dazzles baith my e'en",

But deil a beauty had he seen

But Jennie’s bawbee

[Mosha]

The document will make interesting reading when it is published on Tuesday; not least in picking out the assumptions the SNP have based it on.

For example; the 'cast iron guarantee' Salmond gave about Scotland maintaining a currency union with the UK ; a cast iron guarantee which Colin McKay, SNP's strategy chief, has now admitted cannot be given!

And why should it? Why should the UK stand by to bail out an independent Scotland?

If an independent Scotland does retain currency union with the UK Scotland would have to bow to Westminster in all fiscal policy; that's not independence.

But the EU have said that an independent Scotland would not automatically become a member of the EU, which the SNP want; but would have to apply for membership. One of the conditions of which would be joining the Euro!

So, Mr. Salmond; how's that going to work?

Independence with purse strings attached Mr. Salmond? Join the Euro 555 just what Europe needs another drain on the system

[super22k]

Can we English people have a referendum to vote on if we want Scotland to remain in the United Kingdom? It seems to be all one way traffic. All these people getting referendums. English people never get referendums for anything.

[Chicog]

I think the referendum is a slam dunk.

I agree.

But the result is in question.

[super22k]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

[Suradit69]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

Just to throw a little petrol on the fire I forwarded the O/P to a friend in Scotland and he shot back with this:

The UK government are using scare tactics and undermining Scotland's economy at every turn. They killed our bank, they've threatened our oil refinery, they've threatened our ship building industry. The UK govt has already squandered about half of the revenue from our oil ...

And yet many of my compatriots cannot see this?

I despair!

Please remember I'm just the messenger in this particular posting.

[Mosha]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

Just to throw a little petrol on the fire I forwarded the O/P to a friend in Scotland and he shot back with this:

The UK government are using scare tactics and undermining Scotland's economy at every turn. They killed our bank, they've threatened our oil refinery, they've threatened our ship building industry. The UK govt has already squandered about half of the revenue from our oil ...

And yet many of my compatriots cannot see this?

I despair!

Please remember I'm just the messenger in this particular posting.

Now doesn't the border turn north just before the coast? It's English oil.

[7by7]

Suradit69, by 'killing our bank' does your friend mean the £20 billion the UK government paid to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2008? Money which mainly came from English taxpayers.

By 'threatened our oil refinery' does he mean the dispute between the Swiss owners, Ineos, and the union, Unite, which nearly closed Grangemouth. A dispute settled after the British government promised £125 million in loan guarantees? (Yes, I am aware that the Scottish government promised £9 million, too. Where's that money coming from, I wonder? The grants they receive from English tax payers?)

Maybe you could also ask your friend to comment on this:

BAE closure of Portsmouth shipyard prompts political row

The coalition has been accused of sacrificing Portsmouth's 500-year-old shipbuilding tradition to save the industry in Glasgow before Scotland's independence referendum, as it unveiled plans for almost 1,800 job losses in the two cities.

Philip Hammond, the Conservative defence secretary, said it was "regrettable but inevitable" that BAE Systems' Portsmouth site would have to close, as there would no longer be enough orders to sustain two major military shipyards in the UK.

The closure in Portsmouth removes the immediate threat of closure from Glasgow's Scotstoun and Govan yards, although 835 jobs will be lost at those sites as well as at two other locations, in Fife and Bristol. These will be kept open to build three patrol boats while they wait to begin construction on millions of pounds' worth of type 26 warships in 2015.

However, ministers faced claims that they were playing politics with UK jobs as Alistair Carmichael, the Scottish secretary, said it would be difficult to award the type 26 work to Scotland if the country voted to leave the UK in 2014.

[awayego]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

I for one would welcome an English referendum on whether or not Scotland should remain in the UK.

If some of the feelings expressed by English posters here are anything to go by, we would have a much greater chance of independence.

The waters are so muddied by misinformation, a dearth of facts that are acceptable to all and interpreted in the same way, strongly held, loudly voiced and often misguided opinions (often based on completely spurious 'facts') - all from both sides of the debate - it is small wonder that there is such a significant and critical number of undecided.

IMHO, so many of that critical number, confused about the arguments for or against, or simply ignorant of them, will , if they vote at all, will vote to 'stay safe' ie. stick to the status quo. Uncertainty is such a caster of doubts.

For myself, to put my head on the block, I would vote for Independence IF I had the opportunity to vote, which I have only now had confirmed by my Local Authority in Scotland, I do not.

I also think that Salmond has made a mistake to insist that an independent Scottish currency should be tied to sterling. I would favour the good old 'Scottish Pound' - something that has existed for a very long time, although NOT tied to sterling.

As for membership of the EU, if not automatic it would still be a probability even if it took an application process to do it.

But, alas, I believe it is all pure conjecture and wishful thinking because I just don't think the Scottish voters will go for independence. They are either too scared or just plain apathetic. I despair!

[timber]

Hmmm.... maybe Scotland and Quebec will start a union

[RickBradford]

I just don't think the Scottish voters will go for independence. They are either too scared or just plain apathetic.

Tell them to go independent or the football leagues will be amalgamated, with Celtic in the Championship and Rangers in League One. Might get oot the required vote!

[topt]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

I for one would welcome an English referendum on whether or not Scotland should remain in the UK.

If some of the feelings expressed by English posters here are anything to go by, we would have a much greater chance of independence.

The waters are so muddied by misinformation, a dearth of facts that are acceptable to all and interpreted in the same way, strongly held, loudly voiced and often misguided opinions (often based on completely spurious 'facts') - all from both sides of the debate - it is small wonder that there is such a significant and critical number of undecided.

IMHO, so many of that critical number, confused about the arguments for or against, or simply ignorant of them, will , if they vote at all, will vote to 'stay safe' ie. stick to the status quo. Uncertainty is such a caster of doubts.

For myself, to put my head on the block, I would vote for Independence IF I had the opportunity to vote, which I have only now had confirmed by my Local Authority in Scotland, I do not.

I also think that Salmond has made a mistake to insist that an independent Scottish currency should be tied to sterling. I would favour the good old 'Scottish Pound' - something that has existed for a very long time, although NOT tied to sterling.

As for membership of the EU, if not automatic it would still be a probability even if it took an application process to do it.

But, alas, I believe it is all pure conjecture and wishful thinking because I just don't think the Scottish voters will go for independence. They are either too scared or just plain apathetic. I despair!

I am curious - why do you want Independence? Is it purely a nationalist feeling and/or do you think there will be a benefit to be separate?

I stress I have no real view either way and have not troubled myself to find out anything about it up to now, partly because I thought it would never happen.

[Chicog]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

Already done, and a larger percentage want Scottish independence than in Scotland!

[pacovl46]

Finally William Wallace's dream might come true! FREEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOM. ;-)

[Credo]

Hmmm.... maybe Scotland and Quebec will start a union

That would be interesting, I can't understand either language they speak.

[phuketjock]

Suradit69, by 'killing our bank' does your friend mean the £20 billion the UK government paid to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2008? Money which mainly came from English taxpayers.

By 'threatened our oil refinery' does he mean the dispute between the Swiss owners, Ineos, and the union, Unite, which nearly closed Grangemouth. A dispute settled after the British government promised £125 million in loan guarantees? (Yes, I am aware that the Scottish government promised £9 million, too. Where's that money coming from, I wonder? The grants they receive from English tax payers?)

Maybe you could also ask your friend to comment on this:

BAE closure of Portsmouth shipyard prompts political row

The coalition has been accused of sacrificing Portsmouth's 500-year-old shipbuilding tradition to save the industry in Glasgow before Scotland's independence referendum, as it unveiled plans for almost 1,800 job losses in the two cities.

Philip Hammond, the Conservative defence secretary, said it was "regrettable but inevitable" that BAE Systems' Portsmouth site would have to close, as there would no longer be enough orders to sustain two major military shipyards in the UK.

The closure in Portsmouth removes the immediate threat of closure from Glasgow's Scotstoun and Govan yards, although 835 jobs will be lost at those sites as well as at two other locations, in Fife and Bristol. These will be kept open to build three patrol boats while they wait to begin construction on millions of pounds' worth of type 26 warships in 2015.

However, ministers faced claims that they were playing politics with UK jobs as Alistair Carmichael, the Scottish secretary, said it would be difficult to award the type 26 work to Scotland if the country voted to leave the UK in 2014.

Here we go then, the facts as they stand on Scotlands ability to handle independence.

Source

http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/does-scotland-have-what-it-takes-be-independent

Question:

Does Scotland have what it takes be independent?

Answer:

The question is not whether Scotland can afford to be independent. We have the people, resources and ingenuity to prosper. Instead we should be asking, why isn’t Scotland doing better, given all the natural and human wealth we enjoy?

Being an independent country is all about making Scotland a better place to live, with greater prosperity and higher standards of living. That is the purpose and the reason why so many Scots are passionate about an independent Scotland.

People ask, can we afford to be independent? Many have heard the claim that spending in Scotland is much higher than elsewhere in the UK. What is less well known is that tax revenues generated by Scotland are much higher too.

The 2011-2012 Government Expenditure and Revenue figures show that Scotland got 9.3% of UK spending, but generated 9.9% of UK taxes (due in part to high oil revenues in that year). When we take into account all parts of the financial equation, spending, revenue and borrowing, this means we contributed £4.4 billion more than 'our share'. This pattern has been repeated over the last 6 years: Scotland’s finances have been stronger than the UK. And looking over a period of 30 years, we have had a relative surplus of £19 billion.

The UK government has published figures on Scotland's finances since devolution began in 1999. They showed that Scotland's accounts matched the UK's to within £1 per person for each year. If the UK government were to rerun the same calculations in light of the 2011-12 figures, they would now show that Scotland's public finances have been stronger than the UK's looking at the whole period since devolution.

Taken together, these figures for the most recent years, the devolution years and over a 30 period tell us that Scotland has sufficiently strong financial foundations. These figures are not about forecasting the future, because one of the reasons for becoming independent is to grow our economy faster and improve our financial position. However they do confirm that Scotland is wealthy enough to be an independent nation, if we so choose.

Some people worry that an independent Scotland wouldn’t be able to deal with the high level of debt, but figures released in January 2012 by City firm M&G Investments showed that, at the time, Scotland’s debt as a percentage of national wealth was smaller than the UK’s. For Scotland it was 56%, for the UK 63% - as the report said, Scotland’s starting point looks better than the UK as a whole.

The Scottish Government's Fiscal Commission working group, which includes two Nobel Laureates, has provided updated estimates in February 2013. These look forward to a point after Scotland would be independent. They say that if Scotland assumed a population share of UK public sector net debt, in 2017-18 our debt would be equivalent to 72% of Scotland's national wealth. This would be lower than the equivalent UK figure of 77%.

Thanks to North Sea oil and gas, an asset worth well over £1 trillion, we have one of the best safety nets for the future. The wholesale value of this asset is as much as ten times our share of the national debt.

But oil and gas aren’t our only guarantees for the future. Scotland has 25% of the EU’s offshore tidal and wind energy potential, which will be worth billions every year. For our size, we have the strongest university research base in the world. We have key and growing industries including tourism, food & drink (including whisky), the financial sector, engineering and life sciences. These are firm foundations for success.

[NoshowJones]

Scotland should have been independent years ago, Scotland will not vote for independence next year. The Scottish mentality is " my father votes Labour, so I must vote Labour also" If I had my choice it would be UKIP.

What I'm saying is, as a Scot, if I had the choice of a united Britain with UKIP in control, or an independent Scotland, I would take the former. I detest every British government in my adult life time, particularly Labour.

No UK government has ever done anything for the working man, all they have given us is Lies, Lies and more Lies. In saying that, Margaret Thatcher did get some things right, only some things. ie allowing us to buy our homes as sitting tenants, without that, I would not be here in Thailand today.

[awayego]

Suradit69, by 'killing our bank' does your friend mean the £20 billion the UK government paid to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2008? Money which mainly came from English taxpayers.

By 'threatened our oil refinery' does he mean the dispute between the Swiss owners, Ineos, and the union, Unite, which nearly closed Grangemouth. A dispute settled after the British government promised £125 million in loan guarantees? (Yes, I am aware that the Scottish government promised £9 million, too. Where's that money coming from, I wonder? The grants they receive from English tax payers?)

Maybe you could also ask your friend to comment on this:

BAE closure of Portsmouth shipyard prompts political row

The coalition has been accused of sacrificing Portsmouth's 500-year-old shipbuilding tradition to save the industry in Glasgow before Scotland's independence referendum, as it unveiled plans for almost 1,800 job losses in the two cities.

Philip Hammond, the Conservative defence secretary, said it was "regrettable but inevitable" that BAE Systems' Portsmouth site would have to close, as there would no longer be enough orders to sustain two major military shipyards in the UK.

The closure in Portsmouth removes the immediate threat of closure from Glasgow's Scotstoun and Govan yards, although 835 jobs will be lost at those sites as well as at two other locations, in Fife and Bristol. These will be kept open to build three patrol boats while they wait to begin construction on millions of pounds' worth of type 26 warships in 2015.

However, ministers faced claims that they were playing politics with UK jobs as Alistair Carmichael, the Scottish secretary, said it would be difficult to award the type 26 work to Scotland if the country voted to leave the UK in 2014.

Here we go then, the facts as they stand on Scotlands ability to handle independence.

Source

http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/does-scotland-have-what-it-takes-be-independent

Question:

Does Scotland have what it takes be independent?

Answer:

The question is not whether Scotland can afford to be independent. We have the people, resources and ingenuity to prosper. Instead we should be asking, why isn’t Scotland doing better, given all the natural and human wealth we enjoy?

Being an independent country is all about making Scotland a better place to live, with greater prosperity and higher standards of living. That is the purpose and the reason why so many Scots are passionate about an independent Scotland.

People ask, can we afford to be independent? Many have heard the claim that spending in Scotland is much higher than elsewhere in the UK. What is less well known is that tax revenues generated by Scotland are much higher too.

The 2011-2012 Government Expenditure and Revenue figures show that Scotland got 9.3% of UK spending, but generated 9.9% of UK taxes (due in part to high oil revenues in that year). When we take into account all parts of the financial equation, spending, revenue and borrowing, this means we contributed £4.4 billion more than 'our share'. This pattern has been repeated over the last 6 years: Scotland’s finances have been stronger than the UK. And looking over a period of 30 years, we have had a relative surplus of £19 billion.

The UK government has published figures on Scotland's finances since devolution began in 1999. They showed that Scotland's accounts matched the UK's to within £1 per person for each year. If the UK government were to rerun the same calculations in light of the 2011-12 figures, they would now show that Scotland's public finances have been stronger than the UK's looking at the whole period since devolution.

Taken together, these figures for the most recent years, the devolution years and over a 30 period tell us that Scotland has sufficiently strong financial foundations. These figures are not about forecasting the future, because one of the reasons for becoming independent is to grow our economy faster and improve our financial position. However they do confirm that Scotland is wealthy enough to be an independent nation, if we so choose.

Some people worry that an independent Scotland wouldn’t be able to deal with the high level of debt, but figures released in January 2012 by City firm M&G Investments showed that, at the time, Scotland’s debt as a percentage of national wealth was smaller than the UK’s. For Scotland it was 56%, for the UK 63% - as the report said, Scotland’s starting point looks better than the UK as a whole.

The Scottish Government's Fiscal Commission working group, which includes two Nobel Laureates, has provided updated estimates in February 2013. These look forward to a point after Scotland would be independent. They say that if Scotland assumed a population share of UK public sector net debt, in 2017-18 our debt would be equivalent to 72% of Scotland's national wealth. This would be lower than the equivalent UK figure of 77%.

Thanks to North Sea oil and gas, an asset worth well over £1 trillion, we have one of the best safety nets for the future. The wholesale value of this asset is as much as ten times our share of the national debt.

But oil and gas aren’t our only guarantees for the future. Scotland has 25% of the EU’s offshore tidal and wind energy potential, which will be worth billions every year. For our size, we have the strongest university research base in the world. We have key and growing industries including tourism, food & drink (including whisky), the financial sector, engineering and life sciences. These are firm foundations for success.

Totally agree - you put it much better than I could. I just wish the majority of voters would think the same but I seriously doubt they will see past the scaremongering and fear of taking responsibility for their own future.

[MJP]

Scotland should have been independent years ago, Scotland will not vote for independence next year. The Scottish mentality is " my father votes Labour, so I must vote Labour also" If I had my choice it would be UKIP.

What I'm saying is, as a Scot, if I had the choice of a united Britain with UKIP in control, or an independent Scotland, I would take the former. I detest every British government in my adult life time, particularly Labour.

No UK government has ever done anything for the working man, all they have given us is Lies, Lies and more Lies. In saying that, Margaret Thatcher did get some things right, only some things. ie allowing us to buy our homes as sitting tenants, without that, I would not be here in Thailand today.

Second this. It's all been a bunch of economic gerrymandering for decades with hard working peoples cash.

Sir John Major wasn't bad and could still be a serious contender today.

[Varangkul]

On a more serious note - if that is at all possible - what will happen to all those Scots who carry UK Passports, live in the UK, draw UK benefits, etc?

[awayego]

Can we English people have a referendum to find out if we want Scotland in the United Kingdom?

I for one would welcome an English referendum on whether or not Scotland should remain in the UK.

If some of the feelings expressed by English posters here are anything to go by, we would have a much greater chance of independence.

The waters are so muddied by misinformation, a dearth of facts that are acceptable to all and interpreted in the same way, strongly held, loudly voiced and often misguided opinions (often based on completely spurious 'facts') - all from both sides of the debate - it is small wonder that there is such a significant and critical number of undecided.

IMHO, so many of that critical number, confused about the arguments for or against, or simply ignorant of them, will , if they vote at all, will vote to 'stay safe' ie. stick to the status quo. Uncertainty is such a caster of doubts.

For myself, to put my head on the block, I would vote for Independence IF I had the opportunity to vote, which I have only now had confirmed by my Local Authority in Scotland, I do not.

I also think that Salmond has made a mistake to insist that an independent Scottish currency should be tied to sterling. I would favour the good old 'Scottish Pound' - something that has existed for a very long time, although NOT tied to sterling.

As for membership of the EU, if not automatic it would still be a probability even if it took an application process to do it.

But, alas, I believe it is all pure conjecture and wishful thinking because I just don't think the Scottish voters will go for independence. They are either too scared or just plain apathetic. I despair!

I am curious - why do you want Independence? Is it purely a nationalist feeling and/or do you think there will be a benefit to be separate?

I stress I have no real view either way and have not troubled myself to find out anything about it up to now, partly because I thought it would never happen.

Unfortunately the term 'nationalist' has such negative connotations due to its misuse. Does wanting Scotland to be an independent nation make me a nationalist? Yes, if seen in that context. I am also a republican since I want the abolition of the monarchy, even if Scottish independence doesn't happen.

So, a Scottish Republican, eh? Doubly open to misinterpretation then. And before anyone suggests otherwise, I would have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual 'Scottish Republican Movement'!

Yes, I admit it, maybe my ambition for Scotland comes just a little bit more from the heart more than the head, but then that's probably a Scottish thing, something the English probably can't understand.

Benefits to be separate? Oh I think so. I couldn't really put it better than 'phuketjock' above.

The thing is, I just don't believe that Scotland could fail to make the most of independence and benefit from it - if only to confound the English!

[Chicog]

Scotland should have been independent years ago, Scotland will not vote for independence next year. The Scottish mentality is " my father votes Labour, so I must vote Labour also" If I had my choice it would be UKIP.

What I'm saying is, as a Scot, if I had the choice of a united Britain with UKIP in control, or an independent Scotland, I would take the former. I detest every British government in my adult life time, particularly Labour.

No UK government has ever done anything for the working man, all they have given us is Lies, Lies and more Lies. In saying that, Margaret Thatcher did get some things right, only some things. ie allowing us to buy our homes as sitting tenants, without that, I would not be here in Thailand today.

And you honestly think a Scottish government wouldn't rip you off and treat you like <deleted>?

[7by7]

Here we go then, the facts as they stand on Scotlands ability to handle independence.

Source

http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/does-scotland-have-what-it-takes-be-independent

Given that your source is the Yes campaign, one has to ask whether your lengthy post consists of facts or propaganda! Despite quoting my previous post in full, interestingly your lengthy post didn't deal with a single point I raised.

For the alternative viewpoint, including counter arguments to the Yes campaign's 'facts' see Better together and No Scotland.

I am English and a Unionist; but I am also a democrat. If the Scottish people do vote for independence, then I will wave a fond farewell and wish good luck to them.

But it should be full independence.

1) No monetary union with the UK.

2) No more financial bail outs to Scottish institutions from Westminster.

3) All UK government institutions, factories, defence bases etc. to leave Scotland.

4) Scotland responsible for it's own security and defence. Including paying for it.

5) Scots to choose; British or Scottish. If they choose Scottish then they lose their British passports and all other rights and privileges that British citizenship bestows.

6) Scots who renounce their British citizenship to take up Scottish citizenship who are living in the remainder of the UK to come under the EEA freedom of movement rules in order to remain there pending Scotland's admission to the EU. Which means, among other requirements, that unemployed Scots in, for example, England would need to find work within three months or return to Scotland.

7) If Scotland fails within a reasonable time frame to gain admission to the EU, then Scottish citizens living in the Uk to make Leave to Remain applications under the UK's immigration rules should they wish to remain.

8) The increased unemployment in Scotland due to the UK government leaving will have a serious effect on the rosy economic picture painted by the Yes campaign!

Etc., etc.

All that may seem a bit harsh, vindictive even. But you can't say you want to be independent when it suits, but remain British when independence is inconvenient; despite the line Salmond and his cronies are trying to peddle.

[rgs2001uk]

Dont worry, leave it to good old Dick to set it right.

Please read the lyrics,

"The Tartan Messiah"

[lineofentry]

I like diversity, I hate uniformity I like small, I hate large.

Go for it Scotland.

Signed jealous Northern Englishman.