Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[7by7]

of course Cameron has no vote and of course he is not involved in the debate Embassy cables reveal 34 nations pressured by UK to oppose Scottish independencehttp://yes2014.net/2014/04/27/34-nations-pressured-by-foreign-office-to-oppose-scottish-independence/

Anyone who thinks that the referendum is being fought on an even playing field is deluded.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

As I said before; the Yes campaign have already started to give their excuses for losing.

[Basil B]

of course Cameron has no vote and of course he is not involved in the debate Embassy cables reveal 34 nations pressured by UK to oppose Scottish independencehttp://yes2014.net/2014/04/27/34-nations-pressured-by-foreign-office-to-oppose-scottish-independence/

Anyone who thinks that the referendum is being fought on an even playing field is deluded.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So you have just worked out that there is no chance of winning Independence???

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-yes-vote-at-8-month-low-1-3414582

Edited May 18, 2014 by Basil B

[Basil B]

bit quite today, has the West Lothian Gestetner broken down?

Edited May 19, 2014 by Basil B

[wigantojapan]

As a civil servant in London, and being part of the establishment, I always accepted the general view that an independent Scotland would not be able to survive on its own without financial help from the London Exchequer.................http://scotlandowntwofeet.blogspot.com/2013/07/can-independent-scotland-stand-on-its.html.

You've posted this before; more than once if memory serves.

Each time it has been debunked.

Repeating propaganda which has previously been debunked does not somehow make it valid this time!

really show me any links you want that has debunked it,,,you certainly have not debunked it no matter how loud you sing jerusalem

[wigantojapan]

Like millions of other people, (John Smith) knew that loving your country and at the same time wanting to be part of something bigger does not make you any less Scottish…

That’s right, Prime Minister, and that’s what I think about Scotland in the EU.

However, you have neatly sidestepped the one thing that defines us as a country – and every other country in the world. It’s called independence. Sovereignty. Self-determination. Home rule.

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/05/15/tough-love/

The author seems to be saying that being part of the EU means Scotland wont lose any independence. Shome mishtake, shurely, as Private Eye would say!

From later on in that article

As your own legal advice explains, the British view of Scotland is that it was merged into greater England/Britain 300 years ago and in terms of international law, it literally does not exist. If I said that of England – that there is no England to belong to, it was taken over by Britain and has no separate legal identity of its own, would you agree?

Yes, I would agree; as would any one with the slightest understanding of international law etc.

England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are not separate nations. We are all part of one nation; the United Kingdom.

Are you saying, suggesting that England is a region of the United Kingdom? Can you clarify that

[wigantojapan]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9206-another-indy-scare-undermined-as-alexander-confirms-no-border-checks....seemed to remember quite a few unionists on here harping on about this....of course it is not fear mongering only perspective,,, man the spacemen are on the way

[wigantojapan]

of course Scotland subsidizing England has been debunked...Who would believe Darling anyway

[wigantojapan]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/9212-turn-turn-turn who is turning against who and the gloves are not even off yet

[7by7]

As a civil servant in London, and being part of the establishment, I always accepted the general view that an independent Scotland would not be able to survive on its own without financial help from the London Exchequer.................http://scotlandowntwofeet.blogspot.com/2013/07/can-independent-scotland-stand-on-its.html.

You've posted this before; more than once if memory serves.

Each time it has been debunked.

Repeating propaganda which has previously been debunked does not somehow make it valid this time!

really show me any links you want that has debunked it,,,you certainly have not debunked it no matter how loud you sing jerusalem

Was it not you who told me to do my own research when I asked you a similar question?

Read back through the topic.

[7by7]

Like millions of other people, (John Smith) knew that loving your country and at the same time wanting to be part of something bigger does not make you any less Scottish…

That’s right, Prime Minister, and that’s what I think about Scotland in the EU.

However, you have neatly sidestepped the one thing that defines us as a country – and every other country in the world. It’s called independence. Sovereignty. Self-determination. Home rule.

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/05/15/tough-love/

The author seems to be saying that being part of the EU means Scotland wont lose any independence. Shome mishtake, shurely, as Private Eye would say!

From later on in that article

As your own legal advice explains, the British view of Scotland is that it was merged into greater England/Britain 300 years ago and in terms of international law, it literally does not exist. If I said that of England – that there is no England to belong to, it was taken over by Britain and has no separate legal identity of its own, would you agree?

Yes, I would agree; as would any one with the slightest understanding of international law etc.

England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are not separate nations. We are all part of one nation; the United Kingdom.

Are you saying, suggesting that England is a region of the United Kingdom? Can you clarify that

If you read the whole post, rather than the snippet you have quoted, you will see exactly what I mean.

I don't really see how I can make it any simpler; but I will try and dumb it down.

It is the United Kingdom which is the internationally recognised nation.

It is the United Kingdom which other countries deal with

It is the United Kingdom which is a member of the UN, NATO, the EU, the ECtHR etc.

Not England, not Scotland, not Northern Ireland, not Wales; but the United Kingdom.

Except for some sporting bodies; but not very many of them. The IOC, for example, doesn't recognise the constituent countries of the UK, just the UK; although they do call us Great Britain which would, I admit, pee me off a bit were I from Northern Ireland.

Got it now?

[7by7]

Talking of regions; let's suppose for a moment that the Yes campaign wins and Scotland becomes independent.

How would you react were some regions of Scotland say we want no part of an independent Scotland but want to remain in the UK, or even be independent sovereign nations in our own right?

For example the Orkneys, the Hebrides or Shetland.

Would you support their right to self determination?

[StreetCowboy]

 

Talking of regions; let's suppose for a moment that the Yes campaign wins and Scotland becomes independent.

How would you react were some regions of Scotland say we want no part of an independent Scotland but want to remain in the UK, or even be independent sovereign nations in our own right?

For example the Orkneys, the Hebrides or Shetland.

Would you support their right to self determination?

 

Freedom for Fife!

Independence for the Kingdom!

Burn the Bridges...

[RuamRudy]

Talking of regions; let's suppose for a moment that the Yes campaign wins and Scotland becomes independent.

How would you react were some regions of Scotland say we want no part of an independent Scotland but want to remain in the UK, or even be independent sovereign nations in our own right?

For example the Orkneys, the Hebrides or Shetland.

Would you support their right to self determination?

Should such an unlikely scenario arise, I think it would come down to common sense and practicalities - obviously immense difficulties would arise from any move to rejoin the UK.

From my perspective, the ideal solution would be for the newly independent Scotland to structure itself such that regional interests are devolved to the regions.

Of course, how could an rUK government encourage parts of Scotland to secede without listening seriously to the Cornish separatists? Maybe a new deal for Sealand?

[wilcopops]

Talking of regions; let's suppose for a moment that the Yes campaign wins and Scotland becomes independent.

How would you react were some regions of Scotland say we want no part of an independent Scotland but want to remain in the UK, or even be independent sovereign nations in our own right?

For example the Orkneys, the Hebrides or Shetland.

Would you support their right to self determination?

A rather tangential hypothesis - You are envisaging a N. ireland situation? this was brought about by a mass immigration bt "Scots" into N.I. encouraged by the English dominated govt. So it is unlikely to happen There is also a flaw in arbitrarily defining areas for self rule. Certain parts of the Scottish Isles have cultural connections to Scandinavia so one could form some kind of argument there....but I think it would be seen as rather flimsy.

[7by7]

It is a hypothesis, using those islands as an example.

Unlikely? Maybe.

Unworkable? Don't see why, there are already nation states as small, or even smaller, in Europe and elsewhere in the world.

So far, though, no one has answered the basic question.

Will anyone?

[RuamRudy]

It is a hypothesis, using those islands as an example.

Unlikely? Maybe.

Unworkable? Don't see why, there are already nation states as small, or even smaller, in Europe and elsewhere in the world.

So far, though, no one has answered the basic question.

Will anyone?

At least you agree that small nations are not only feasible but clearly successful worldwide - therefore there is no reason why Scotland cannot be similarly successful post independence.

So your question was would anyone support a bid from a disenfranchised part of Scotland seeking to secede. Well, if I support the right of the people of Scotland to seek their independence, I could not deny that same principle to an identifiably distinct subset of Scotland without being accused of being a hypocrite.

That said, there is a legal aspect to what I hope will be the dissolution of the UK in that there exists an agreement between separate countries to form a union. That agreement does not exist with the examples you gave - they were acquired by Scotland in the way that any country of the day acquired territory; they never chose to join.

[7by7]

So you do agree that Scotland freely entered into a union with England (I accept that the ordinary people of Scotland at the time had no say in the matter; but neither did the ordinary people of England) and so should have the right to freely leave if they wish.

As I have said many times; I agree. I simply believe it would be a big mistake were they to do so.

Yes, small countries can and do exist happily and in many cases successfully, often by becoming tax havens for the super rich; I have never denied that. However, in most cases these countries have ceded certain powers, e.g. defence, foreign affairs, to the larger nations which adjoin or surround them. Monaco and France, San Marino and Italy for example.

I accept that an independent Scotland will be considerably larger than these two examples; but the Yes campaign does seem to want similar arrangements between an independent Scotland and the remainder of the UK; e.g. monetary union, thus ceding all financial policy decisions to Westminster.

I simply believe that for the reasons previously stated that Scotland will be better off remaining in the union.

[RuamRudy]

I think 'similar arrangements' is over egging things considerably. Defence and foreign affairs will become wholly Scottish issues; where have you seen an Independence supporter clamouring for rUK to take control of these areas?

The currency union is a pragmatic and relatively painless answer to ensure that the significant cross border trade that currently exists between the 4 nations will continue unhindered. Of course it is not ideal, but it is far from unheard of, even for the UK.

[wilcopops]

So you do agree that Scotland freely entered into a union with England (I accept that the ordinary people of Scotland at the time had no say in the matter; but neither did the ordinary people of England) and so should have the right to freely leave if they wish.

As I have said many times; I agree. I simply believe it would be a big mistake were they to do so.

Yes, small countries can and do exist happily and in many cases successfully, often by becoming tax havens for the super rich; I have never denied that. However, in most cases these countries have ceded certain powers, e.g. defence, foreign affairs, to the larger nations which adjoin or surround them. Monaco and France, San Marino and Italy for example.

I accept that an independent Scotland will be considerably larger than these two examples; but the Yes campaign does seem to want similar arrangements between an independent Scotland and the remainder of the UK; e.g. monetary union, thus ceding all financial policy decisions to Westminster.

I simply believe that for the reasons previously stated that Scotland will be better off remaining in the union.

So you do agree that Scotland freely entered into a union with England

This is patently a misinterpretation of how the Union came into place.

Secondly your comparison dB with small countries is somewhat implausible. If you are looking for "similar" countries you should be looking at Norway or New Zealand.

[wigantojapan]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8772-labour-councillor-under-fire-after-laughing-at-censorship-of-yes-campaign-in-local-schools

A Labour councillor has caused anger after appearing to mock local people angered at the news the council were censoring the official Yes campaign in local schools despite allowing pupils to view the pro-Union rival site.

Councillor Stephen McCabe has come under fire after he treated the situation as a joke and suggested it would not be resolved until after the independence referendum.

The episode began when Caitlin Brannigan, a student at a local School, tweeted a picture showing that Yes Scotland's site was blocked under content filtering from the Schools internal network but no such block was in place for Better Together.

of course the bias is unfounded..and of course the various members of the public,,teachers included who have voiced this concern are fully paid up members of the SNP,,We all know this dont we my unionist friends

[RuamRudy]

of course the bias is unfounded..and of course the various members of the public,,teachers included who have voiced this concern are fully paid up members of the SNP,,We all know this dont we my unionist friends

Can I express my disappointment that you missed the opportunity to also brand them cybernats? Never mind, I am sure that there will be one or two worthy regulars who will point out the 'fact'.

[StreetCowboy]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8772-labour-councillor-under-fire-after-laughing-at-censorship-of-yes-campaign-in-local-schools

A Labour councillor has caused anger after appearing to mock local people angered at the news the council were censoring the official Yes campaign in local schools despite allowing pupils to view the pro-Union rival site.

Councillor Stephen McCabe has come under fire after he treated the situation as a joke and suggested it would not be resolved until after the independence referendum.

The episode began when Caitlin Brannigan, a student at a local School, tweeted a picture showing that Yes Scotland's site was blocked under content filtering from the Schools internal network but no such block was in place for Better Together.

of course the bias is unfounded..and of course the various members of the public,,teachers included who have voiced this concern are fully paid up members of the SNP,,We all know this dont we my unionist friends

My understanding is that the Scottish government is fairly pro-independence. I would be surprised that their education board does not support that position.

It appears that the site was promptly unblocked when the issue was raised, and that the block was not on the basis of political view, but categorisation of the site. It seems to me that the entire article is a desperate attempt to show bias where none was intended - another example of our stereotypical ability to whinge and complain, rather than commending the local authority for their prompt response, and their commitment to free speech.

SC

[7by7]

The currency union is a pragmatic and relatively painless answer to ensure that the significant cross border trade that currently exists between the 4 nations will continue unhindered. Of course it is not ideal, but it is far from unheard of, even for the UK.

So you accept that a currency union would mean an independent Scotland handing over all fiscal policy to the UK government?

Pray tell, with which countries does the UK have a formal currency union?

A number of UK overseas territories and Crown dependencies use Sterling; is that how you envision the future of Scotland?

There used to be a sort of quasi currency union between the UK and RoI; whereas the Irish pound was tied to Sterling. This was a decision of the Irish government and abandoned by them in 1979.

In some other countries Sterling may be accepted in payment for goods; but no formal currency union exists.

A moot point anyway. Regardless of whether you believe the UK government and opposition, who say that they wont agree to one, or the SNP, who seem to think it's not up to the UK government, if an independent Scotland wants to join the EU it will have to also join the Euro.

Edited May 21, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8772-labour-councillor-under-fire-after-laughing-at-censorship-of-yes-campaign-in-local-schools

A Labour councillor has caused anger after appearing to mock local people angered at the news the council were censoring the official Yes campaign in local schools despite allowing pupils to view the pro-Union rival site.

Councillor Stephen McCabe has come under fire after he treated the situation as a joke and suggested it would not be resolved until after the independence referendum.

The episode began when Caitlin Brannigan, a student at a local School, tweeted a picture showing that Yes Scotland's site was blocked under content filtering from the Schools internal network but no such block was in place for Better Together.

of course the bias is unfounded..and of course the various members of the public,,teachers included who have voiced this concern are fully paid up members of the SNP,,We all know this dont we my unionist friends

My understanding is that the Scottish government is fairly pro-independence. I would be surprised that their education board does not support that position.

It appears that the site was promptly unblocked when the issue was raised, and that the block was not on the basis of political view, but categorisation of the site. It seems to me that the entire article is a desperate attempt to show bias where none was intended - another example of our stereotypical ability to whinge and complain, rather than commending the local authority for their prompt response, and their commitment to free speech.

SC

Indeed, SC.

Yet another example of the Yes campaign cherry picking from, and twisting, information for their propaganda.

They really are getting more and more desperate in their excuses for losing the referendum; and it hasn't even been held yet!

[RuamRudy]

The currency union is a pragmatic and relatively painless answer to ensure that the significant cross border trade that currently exists between the 4 nations will continue unhindered. Of course it is not ideal, but it is far from unheard of, even for the UK.

So you accept that a currency union would mean an independent Scotland handing over all fiscal policy to the UK government?

Pray tell, with which countries does the UK have a formal currency union?

A number of UK overseas territories and Crown dependencies use Sterling; is that how you envision the future of Scotland?

There used to be a sort of quasi currency union between the UK and RoI; whereas the Irish pound was tied to Sterling. This was abandoned by the Irish government in 1979.

In some other countries Sterling may be accepted in payment for goods; but no formal currency union exists.

A moot point anyway. Regardless of whether you believe the UK government and opposition, who say that they wont agree to one, or the SNP, who seem to think it's not up to the UK government, if an independent Scotland wants to join the EU it will have to also join the Euro.

Where did I use the word 'formal'?

I did point out that any use of the pound in an independent Scotland was not ideal, however for practicalities' sake, it makes much more sense for both Scotland and England to continue to use it post independence.

A country's (or crown dependency etc) is NOT defined by its currency. So your query, 'is that how you envision the future of Scotland' is utter nonsense. The future of Scotland is far brighter with independence than it would be if it is continued to be bled dry by a corrupt Westminster elite, whether it be blue, red or orange.

[RuamRudy]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8772-labour-councillor-under-fire-after-laughing-at-censorship-of-yes-campaign-in-local-schools

A Labour councillor has caused anger after appearing to mock local people angered at the news the council were censoring the official Yes campaign in local schools despite allowing pupils to view the pro-Union rival site.

Councillor Stephen McCabe has come under fire after he treated the situation as a joke and suggested it would not be resolved until after the independence referendum.

The episode began when Caitlin Brannigan, a student at a local School, tweeted a picture showing that Yes Scotland's site was blocked under content filtering from the Schools internal network but no such block was in place for Better Together.

of course the bias is unfounded..and of course the various members of the public,,teachers included who have voiced this concern are fully paid up members of the SNP,,We all know this dont we my unionist friends

My understanding is that the Scottish government is fairly pro-independence. I would be surprised that their education board does not support that position.

It appears that the site was promptly unblocked when the issue was raised, and that the block was not on the basis of political view, but categorisation of the site. It seems to me that the entire article is a desperate attempt to show bias where none was intended - another example of our stereotypical ability to whinge and complain, rather than commending the local authority for their prompt response, and their commitment to free speech.

SC

Indeed, SC.

Yet another example of the Yes campaign cherry picking from, and twisting, information for their propaganda.

They really are getting more and more desperate in their excuses for losing the referendum; and it hasn't even been held yet!

Yes, you have made variants of this statement on several occasions - repeating it ad nauseum does not make it right. It just makes you look more desperate.

[Basil B]

The currency union is a pragmatic and relatively painless answer to ensure that the significant cross border trade that currently exists between the 4 nations will continue unhindered. Of course it is not ideal, but it is far from unheard of, even for the UK.

So you accept that a currency union would mean an independent Scotland handing over all fiscal policy to the UK government?

Pray tell, with which countries does the UK have a formal currency union?

A number of UK overseas territories and Crown dependencies use Sterling; is that how you envision the future of Scotland?

There used to be a sort of quasi currency union between the UK and RoI; whereas the Irish pound was tied to Sterling. This was a decision of the Irish government and abandoned by them in 1979.

In some other countries Sterling may be accepted in payment for goods; but no formal currency union exists.

A moot point anyway. Regardless of whether you believe the UK government and opposition, who say that they wont agree to one, or the SNP, who seem to think it's not up to the UK government, if an independent Scotland wants to join the EU it will have to also join the Euro.

As I see it Scotland would not necessarily have to use the Euro if it joined the EU, it would be subject to negotiation, but then the EU would be pressing for it and Scotland has very little to negotiate with.

Same with the pound, nothing to stop Scotland trading in it but I doubt there would ever be a currency union with rUK.

[wigantojapan]

michael god bless him seems someone forgot to tell him not to mention the S word,,or maybe they ? of course it is unfounded and its only a perspective from the Yes side

[wigantojapan]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=705880002787279&set=a.557945437580737.1073741827.107447742630511&type

[transam]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=705880002787279&set=a.557945437580737.1073741827.107447742630511&type

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, this guy will have a weeeeeeeeee problem communicating with anyone except perhaps ET in any business venture eh............ .....................