Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[RuamRudy]

 

If facts are from a source, then that source should be cited.

 

I wasn't having a go at any of the posters here (1), merely the inadequate references that they were quoting, which were on the vitriolic rabble-rousing side of argument, rather than rational, reasoned debate.

If someone is proposing or supporting a change, then it behoves them to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that it will be for the better, and beyond reasonable doubt that it will not be for the worse. The Independence campaign has consistently failed on the reasonable doubt criterion, so we are being asked to vote for independence on the grounds that "it'll be fine - what could possibly go wrong.... don't worry".

SC

Edit: Footnote added

(1)The specific post I was ridiculing, from WigantoJapan, wherein he had got quite carried away with his 'copy&pasting' did actually have a link back to the source. Which was an unsubstantiated rant with no supporting evidence.

If the general public could have foreseen just how much the current government would punish the poor for the failings of the rich would they be in power now? I like to think not. Similarly, could we have predicted that Blair's government would turn so poisonous? Certainly not in '97 - everything seemed rosy and bright.

Everything in life is a risk; voting Yes is a risk, but so is voting No. You want cast iron guarantees? You will not get them from either side.

[oldsailor35]

England needs to dump Scotland. What with all the europeans and the Scots she has too many 'hanger- ons' all with their hands out. Let Scotland try to support its self for a change. Take away any Briy military bases and do not give them any share of England's North Sea oil, it is not theirs to have.

[nontabury]

England needs to dump Scotland. What with all the europeans and the Scots she has too many 'hanger- ons' all with their hands out. Let Scotland try to support its self for a change. Take away any Briy military bases and do not give them any share of England's North Sea oil, it is not theirs to have.

In the event of a yes vote, the rest of the UK would still be sending Scotland money, the only difference is that it would come under the heading of "Foreign Aid"

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[StreetCowboy]

 

 

If facts are from a source, then that source should be cited.

 

I wasn't having a go at any of the posters here (1), merely the inadequate references that they were quoting, which were on the vitriolic rabble-rousing side of argument, rather than rational, reasoned debate.

If someone is proposing or supporting a change, then it behoves them to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that it will be for the better, and beyond reasonable doubt that it will not be for the worse. The Independence campaign has consistently failed on the reasonable doubt criterion, so we are being asked to vote for independence on the grounds that "it'll be fine - what could possibly go wrong.... don't worry".

SC

Edit: Footnote added

(1)The specific post I was ridiculing, from WigantoJapan, wherein he had got quite carried away with his 'copy&pasting' did actually have a link back to the source. Which was an unsubstantiated rant with no supporting evidence.

If the general public could have foreseen just how much the current government would punish the poor for the failings of the rich would they be in power now? I like to think not. Similarly, could we have predicted that Blair's government would turn so poisonous? Certainly not in '97 - everything seemed rosy and bright.

Everything in life is a risk; voting Yes is a risk, but so is voting No. You want cast iron guarantees? You will not get them from either side.

 

That's why we elect our governments for such a limited time - and limited by statute, to boot.

[RuamRudy]

 

 

If facts are from a source, then that source should be cited.

 

I wasn't having a go at any of the posters here (1), merely the inadequate references that they were quoting, which were on the vitriolic rabble-rousing side of argument, rather than rational, reasoned debate.

If someone is proposing or supporting a change, then it behoves them to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that it will be for the better, and beyond reasonable doubt that it will not be for the worse. The Independence campaign has consistently failed on the reasonable doubt criterion, so we are being asked to vote for independence on the grounds that "it'll be fine - what could possibly go wrong.... don't worry".

SC

Edit: Footnote added

(1)The specific post I was ridiculing, from WigantoJapan, wherein he had got quite carried away with his 'copy&pasting' did actually have a link back to the source. Which was an unsubstantiated rant with no supporting evidence.

If the general public could have foreseen just how much the current government would punish the poor for the failings of the rich would they be in power now? I like to think not. Similarly, could we have predicted that Blair's government would turn so poisonous? Certainly not in '97 - everything seemed rosy and bright.

Everything in life is a risk; voting Yes is a risk, but so is voting No. You want cast iron guarantees? You will not get them from either side.

 

That's why we elect our governments for such a limited time - and limited by statute, to boot.

And yet we still end up with the same type of careerist politicians who all peddle lies of differing hues but, ultimately, the same intent. Here is an opportunity to start afresh, unencumbered by those parasite MPs in London, intent on turning the UK into a country of the mega rich serviced by a bovine-like workforce.

As I said, nothing is guaranteed, but there is one thing I am 100% certain about - if we vote no, the next UK government will be every bit as bad as the current one. As will the one that comes after that, ad nauseum.

[RuamRudy]

England needs to dump Scotland. What with all the europeans and the Scots she has too many 'hanger- ons' all with their hands out. Let Scotland try to support its self for a change. Take away any Briy military bases and do not give them any share of England's North Sea oil, it is not theirs to have.

Whilst I cannot claim to speak for anybody but myself, I am sure that there are more than a few Yes supporters who would like to thank you for your contribution. Please keep them coming - you are doing the Yes cause a wonderful service. That, and you are giving me a good laugh

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been deleted. You may only copy the headline and the first three lines of an article and then a link.

[wigantojapan]

To paraphrase the great political leader Simón Bolívar; “Political gangrene cannot be cured with palliatives and Britain is totally and utterly infected with gangrene. A green mango will ripen, but a rotten mango never ripens; the seeds of a rotten mango must be saved and planted so that a new plant may grow. That is happening in Scotland today.”

The Socialist Case For Voting Nohttps://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.labourforindy.com%2Fthe_socialist_case_for_voting_no&ei=3lhOU4LBEIve8AWesICoDw&usg=AFQjCNGsjvXd8-3hy5UAt2c2mDjb9weImw&sig2=MJMr3cOl4h_-iKixTjSqrg&bvm=bv.64764171,d.dGc.

[transam]

To paraphrase the great political leader Simón Bolívar; “Political gangrene cannot be cured with palliatives and Britain is totally and utterly infected with gangrene. A green mango will ripen, but a rotten mango never ripens; the seeds of a rotten mango must be saved and planted so that a new plant may grow. That is happening in Scotland today.”

The Socialist Case For Voting Nohttps://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.labourforindy.com%2Fthe_socialist_case_for_voting_no&ei=3lhOU4LBEIve8AWesICoDw&usg=AFQjCNGsjvXd8-3hy5UAt2c2mDjb9weImw&sig2=MJMr3cOl4h_-iKixTjSqrg&bvm=bv.64764171,d.dGc.

Just Scotland.?..............

[folium]

To me the inscription beneath a certain memorial at Bridge of Spean sums up what the UK has been all about and will continue to be.

It would be interesting to know how many of those actively engaged in this thread will actually be casting a vote come Bannockburn day.

As they say in certain parts: cha togar m'fhearg gun dioladh, though I prefer the Latin version.....

[RuamRudy]

To me the inscription beneath a certain memorial at Bridge of Spean sums up what the UK has been all about and will continue to be.

It would be interesting to know how many of those actively engaged in this thread will actually be casting a vote come Bannockburn day.

As they say in certain parts: cha togar m'fhearg gun dioladh, though I prefer the Latin version.....

An independent Scotland would not diminish the accomplishments of those commemorated at Spean (I presume that you are referring to the Commandos' Memorial at Spean Bridge).

As for active voters here? I should imagine that most involved in this thread, being on a Thai forum, will not be participating. That doesn't mean that they are not entitled to hold views.

[Scott]

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[wigantojapan]

SCOTTISH LABOUR ARE WRONG TO SUPPORT A NO VOTE Over the last few months we have seen Labour party stalwarts breaking from the party line and coming out in support of a YES vote and with 50% of Labour voters believing that an Indy Scotland would be more fair than the UK. Has the Scottish Labour Party made a strategic mistake in supporting the union? http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Faworkingclassman.com%2Fscottish-labour-wrong-support-vote%2F&h=sAQEO3mTX

Seems like its not all lovers of Salmond and SNP as thought by the high percentage of poster here

[Neeranam]

SInce someone mentioned Japan - I got this from a Japanese newspaper and find it very on the ball.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/04/04/commentary/scotland-a-nation-not-a-region/#.U0BYoKq9Kc2

I've never heard "on the ball" used as a euphemism for 'rabid polemic' before

Not totally sure if I used it for that.

[Neeranam]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

[nontabury]

 

If facts are from a source, then that source should be cited.

 

I wasn't having a go at any of the posters here (1), merely the inadequate references that they were quoting, which were on the vitriolic rabble-rousing side of argument, rather than rational, reasoned debate.

If someone is proposing or supporting a change, then it behoves them to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that it will be for the better, and beyond reasonable doubt that it will not be for the worse. The Independence campaign has consistently failed on the reasonable doubt criterion, so we are being asked to vote for independence on the grounds that "it'll be fine - what could possibly go wrong.... don't worry".

SC

Edit: Footnote added

(1)The specific post I was ridiculing, from WigantoJapan, wherein he had got quite carried away with his 'copy&pasting' did actually have a link back to the source. Which was an unsubstantiated rant with no supporting evidence.

If the general public could have foreseen just how much the current government would punish the poor for the failings of the rich would they be in power now? I like to think not. Similarly, could we have predicted that Blair's government would turn so poisonous? Certainly not in '97 - everything seemed rosy and bright.

Everything in life is a risk; voting Yes is a risk, but so is voting No. You want cast iron guarantees? You will not get them from either side.

That's why we elect our governments for such a limited time - and limited by statute, to boot.

And yet we still end up with the same type of careerist politicians who all peddle lies of differing hues but, ultimately, the same intent. Here is an opportunity to start afresh, unencumbered by those parasite MPs in London, intent on turning the UK into a country of the mega rich serviced by a bovine-like workforce.

As I said, nothing is guaranteed, but there is one thing I am 100% certain about - if we vote no, the next UK government will be every bit as bad as the current one. As will the one that comes after that, ad nauseum.

Maybe it will be an opportunity to start afresh, but "maybe" is not good enough, and while nothing in life is guaranteed, you should be picking discrepancies in the SNP's policies, not just relying and accepting paste and post from their propaganda department. Take a leaf from the politicians down south who have tried, OK unsuccessfully, to undermine UKIP. This is what the intelligent Scots are doing, not relying on distorted truths and ancient history.

In mentioning UKIP, lets not forget how the Democratic supporters of SNP welcomed Nigel Farage when he visited Scotland last year, during that visit he challenged Alex Salmonds to a public debate, but as in the case of his fellow Scot, Alistair Darling, Alex Salmonds declined.

I have Scottish friends living in Scotland who tell me it's better for them to keep quite about their support for a"NO" vote, due to the actions of some SNP supporters, who are nothing but

Bigoted political bullies, shouting down anyone who does not agree with their views, telling them that anybody who does not support the YES campaign, is nothing but a traitor. THIS is the great achievement of the SNP, not only have they succeeded in turning Brit against Brit, but also Scot against Scot .

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[nontabury]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Sure many people in Scotland disliked Maggie and her policies, but the same can be said of many English people. I come from a region of England that was more effected by her policies than any area of Scotland. The same can be said of the policies of Tony WMD Blair and Gordon BIGOT Brown, but that is no reason for the people of England to take offence at the Scots as a whole, and before any of you say you are not anti English, read back through this thread.

[RuamRudy]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Sure many people in Scotland disliked Maggie and her policies, but the same can be said of many English people. I come from a region of England that was more effected by her policies than any area of Scotland. The same can be said of the policies of Tony WMD Blair and Gordon BIGOT Brown, but that is no reason for the people of England to take offence at the Scots as a whole, and before any of you say you are not anti English, read back through this thread.

Then why are you so resistant to independence? Reading through this thread (not necessarily by you, but the general tone is thus) we are characterised as being a whinging, moaning, ungrateful lot who take far more from the UK than we contribute. Surely an England without such a burden would flourish? Why create such a fuss?

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[wigantojapan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy_sJyLevQY.This

[Mojomor]

Scotish people need to have some faith ---- as well as being part of the UK they are also part of Europe.

The European movement is much stronger than many believe, and is very weloming -----so either way Scotish people can't really lose. For the record I am not from the UK.

[Richard W]

you tell us? and i will also offer a suppose question ... if the leader of a Conservative led UK government was Scottish would you think it right or wrong for him/her to debate with Salmond?

David Cameron's father was born in Scotland, and the Camerons are a Scottish clan, so what's with the 'if'?

[folium]

To me the inscription beneath a certain memorial at Bridge of Spean sums up what the UK has been all about and will continue to be.

It would be interesting to know how many of those actively engaged in this thread will actually be casting a vote come Bannockburn day.

As they say in certain parts: cha togar m'fhearg gun dioladh, though I prefer the Latin version.....

An independent Scotland would not diminish the accomplishments of those commemorated at Spean (I presume that you are referring to the Commandos' Memorial at Spean Bridge).

As for active voters here? I should imagine that most involved in this thread, being on a Thai forum, will not be participating. That doesn't mean that they are not entitled to hold views.

It's the inscription on the Commando Memorial that speaks volumes for what Brits (in all spheres, not just the military) have achieved.

Seems like many expat Scottish emigrants have lots of opinion but no vote....shame really. Perhaps you should have kept an interest in Scotland.

[I Like Thai]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Sure many people in Scotland disliked Maggie and her policies, but the same can be said of many English people. I come from a region of England that was more effected by her policies than any area of Scotland. The same can be said of the policies of Tony WMD Blair and Gordon BIGOT Brown, but that is no reason for the people of England to take offence at the Scots as a whole, and before any of you say you are not anti English, read back through this thread.

You can be Anti England, without being Anti English. There is a big difference in both.

[nontabury]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Sure many people in Scotland disliked Maggie and her policies, but the same can be said of many English people. I come from a region of England that was more effected by her policies than any area of Scotland. The same can be said of the policies of Tony WMD Blair and Gordon BIGOT Brown, but that is no reason for the people of England to take offence at the Scots as a whole, and before any of you say you are not anti English, read back through this thread.

Then why are you so resistant to independence? Reading through this thread (not necessarily by you, but the general tone is thus) we are characterised as being a whinging, moaning, ungrateful lot who take far more from the UK than we contribute. Surely an England without such a burden would flourish? Why create such a fuss?

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Thank you for noticing and pointing out that I am not against separation.

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[nontabury]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Sure many people in Scotland disliked Maggie and her policies, but the same can be said of many English people. I come from a region of England that was more effected by her policies than any area of Scotland. The same can be said of the policies of Tony WMD Blair and Gordon BIGOT Brown, but that is no reason for the people of England to take offence at the Scots as a whole, and before any of you say you are not anti English, read back through this thread.

You can be Anti England, without being Anti English. There is a big difference in both.

Read through the Whole of this thread and please don't restrict yourself from cherry picking.

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[StreetCowboy]

So let's get this clear: you want separation because the English elect tory politicians you don't like, and the British, including the Scots, elect labour politicians you don't like, amongst whom Scots are over-represented.

Let's cut out the first crowd and focus on the labour politicians who were elected by Scots and amongst whom Scots were over-represented. You believe that the Scots will not elect such Scots in the future?

SC

[Commander Tamson]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Will England ever forgive us for the likes of Gordon Brown. <deleted> - another one who only remembers Culloden

[transam]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Will England ever forgive us for the likes of Gordon Brown. <deleted> - another one who only remembers Culloden

Or Blair...............

[Commander Tamson]

Even if we get independence, I wonder how many Scots can forgive England for what they've done. I witnessed Maggie Thatcher getting hit by an egg in Aberdeen. I think she was treated better than she deserves.

Will England ever forgive us for the likes of Gordon Brown. - another one who only remembers Culloden

Or Blair...............

Was Blair Scots? He was educated there, but his ancestry is doubt - I don't think his mother knew his father - if you get my drift?

[Iforbach]

scotland away n &lt;deleted&gt; good luck to u stuff uk too live there f joke

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