Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[7by7]

We only have to look across the Irish Sea to see the problems caused by nationalists who wont accept the will of the majority!

[tgeezer]

We only have to look across the Irish Sea to see the problems caused by nationalists who wont accept the will of the majority!

Is it a question of a simple majority? That sounds dumb. Now that Salmond has stirred up the passions he will have a lot to answer for if he doesn't win. It's Scotch immigrants to Ireland who caused all the problem in Ulster so we know what they are capable of.

Salmond is a scoundrel, Westminster is not enough for him, he wants to be the head of a dog rather than the tail of a lion and this is the only way he can achieve it.

[Basil B]

We only have to look across the Irish Sea to see the problems caused by nationalists who wont accept the will of the majority!

Is it a question of a simple majority? That sounds dumb. Now that Salmond has stirred up the passions he will have a lot to answer for if he doesn't win. It's Scotch immigrants to Ireland who caused all the problem in Ulster so we know what they are capable of.

Salmond is a scoundrel, Westminster is not enough for him, he wants to be the head of a dog rather than the tail of a lion and this is the only way he can achieve it.

A good point on the majority, I presume it will be how the votes are counted so it could theoretically be decided by on vote.

I would be more happier to see a requirement of 67% for such a monumental change, as you put it it will not be easy for them to turn round in few years and say they made a big mistake, can we rejoin?

Probably the same for the EU referendum also, it is not that I see this as making it more difficult for change, but more it should be an decisive wish of the people, likewise I would have been more happy to see the same rules applied when we joined the EU.

Just looking at the figures it was only 67.2% yes vote for entry. but then only 64.5% of those entitled to vote voted.

[StreetCowboy]

As I mentioned earlier, the last time we voted on devolution, there was a requirement of 40% of the electorate in favour.

For major decisions such as this, that does not seem an unreasonable constraint on the democratic process. If I was a democratic pedant, I would ask for >50% of the electorate.

SC

[Trembly]

So what happens to all of us Scots who hold British Passports if Scotland votes for independence? What happens to our Children's nationality rights for those born here in Thailand? I for one think the Union is the way ahead. Too many Scots have watched too many movies and are still bearing either a 700 year old or a 300 year old grudge. Whatever happened in the past, it is what it is now and Scotland does very well out of the Union. Where should the English grudges start, Italy, Denmark, Norway, Germany, France? It's all water under the bridge. Independence....Big mistake.

Even more modern history shows that only a few years grudges can be buried and forgot, take Germany for instance...

As for the Passport issue Scotland will have to issue their own, but first they will need to decide who is Scottish, their will be a lot more duel nationals.

As my grandfather was Scottish I do hope I will be able to apply for Scottish Nationality...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/29/british-scottish-passport-scotland-independence

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[Trembly]

I've always thought that the Scots were justified in requesting a vote on this issue, as Salmonds and the SNP have always stated the original agreement to create the Act of Union in 1706 was not taken by the majority of the Scottish people, only by a small number, mostly the rich and landed.

So what will happen if there is a NO vote, will the SNP accept the democratic wish of the Scottish people. Well, not according to Alex Salmonds the leader of the nationalist, he has already gone on record as saying they will make another attempt in a few years time. So again we will be left in limbo. In the meantime the rest of the UK, who have never had the opportunity to vote on this issue ( and this includes the English people in 1706 ) will just have to accept the union, even though, according to numerous opinion post carried out in England and Scotland, a larger percent of the English, as opposed to the Scots, would favour separation.

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25 years' time. It was agreed that in the case of a No vote, the issue would be dropped for 25 years.

Sorry! You are wrong, the issue of separation will not be dropped, what they will demand is another referendum in 25 yrs, even though the Scottish people as a whole will have made their decision in 2014. They will still keep harping on about the subject, in other words they have no intention of accepting the decision of the Scottish electorate. What is a fact, is that they will achieve more division amongst the Scottish people. So much for narrow minded Scottish Nationalism.

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But surely if he wants to harp on about it that's his democratic prerogative . Whether he continually fails or succeeds is another matter.

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[Trembly]

Another factor, I am assuming much of Eire legislation has to shadow the UK, not the other way around so the Scots will also have consider what is happening south of the boarder and act accordingly particularly if they want an open boarder, not exactly the Independence they want.

For an open boarder they would have to apply to join but I see it being in the rest of the UK's interest that they are allowed to do so anyway and be part of the UK & Eire free travel arrangement.

Another issue is if Scotland was outside the EU those using specialized hi tech equipment, would not be able to expect a service engineer to turn up in few hours with a fully equipped service van from south of the boarder, as there will be such issues as "Customs Duty" and possibly even work permits to sort out.

In the event of independence I'm sure that pragmatic bilateral arrangements will come into place. Just look at the way Irish citizens are still given special privileges over other EU citizens. They're even still allowed to join the British military.

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Edited February 25, 2014 by Trembly

[Neeranam]

I pray for independence. I really can't see why anyone wouldn't want it

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[StreetCowboy]

 

I pray for independence. I really can't see why anyone wouldn't want it

 

I suppose it depends on how balkanised you want your country to be.

[Neeranam]

 

I pray for independence. I really can't see why anyone wouldn't want it

 

I suppose it depends on how balkanised you want your country to be.

Not sure what you mean, how would Independent Scotland be balkanised?

The following is worth a look.

[phuketjock]

 

I pray for independence. I really can't see why anyone wouldn't want it

 

I suppose it depends on how balkanised you want your country to be.

Not sure what you mean, how would Independent Scotland be balkanised?

The following is worth a look.

Absolutely spot on!!!!

[folium]

 

I pray for independence. I really can't see why anyone wouldn't want it

 

I suppose it depends on how balkanised you want your country to be.

Not sure what you mean, how would Independent Scotland be balkanised?

The following is worth a look.

Redrawing boundaries can have all sorts of unintended consequences. Setting a precedent can come back to bite you on the proverbial.

The link below highlights how the Orkneys and Shetland are geographically and ethnically/culturally remote from the Glasgow/Edinburgh corridor, and any move to greater autonomy or even independence by the Orkneys/Shetland islands, would have dire economic consequences for an independent Scotland.

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21596525-scotlands-independence-referendum-more-booty-canny-folk-shetland-and-orkney

Edited February 26, 2014 by folium

[Chicog]

The SNP's Nicola Sturgeon: "Using the Olympic stadium on the day the Winter Olympics begin and seeking to invoke the successes of London 2012 as an argument against Scotland taking its future into its own hands, it betrays the extent of the jitters now running through the No campaign.

They see the polls closing and they are clearly rattled – but to politicise any sporting occasion is shameful."

Which it has been pointed out is just a smidgin on the hypocritical side if you cast your mind back to Wimbledon.....

[I Like Thai]

We only have to look across the Irish Sea to see the problems caused by nationalists who wont accept the will of the majority!

Doesn't count for much when you aren't allowed to vote.

http://campaignforcivilrights.org/northernirelandarticles.php?id=158

Northern Ireland operated a voting system for local government that retained the company vote andratepayer suffrage. Therefore, any person who did not own a home or pay rates was not entitled to vote in local council elections. This had the effect of disenfranchising over one-quarter of the population, most of whom were Catholic. Alternatively, a business owner, most of whom were Protestant, was entitled to more than one vote. The predictable outcome of this state of affairs was that most local councils remained under Unionist control.

[tgeezer]

Very good speech by Tommy Sheridon. Not terribly original; Jesus said it so did many before him and many since, I fear he is going to be a very disappointed man after a few years of Scotish independence.

[marstons]

I think they want to know if they will still get their free handouts from the Palace of Westminster before they commit to it.

And the EU which they would no longer be a member of, also loosing the military contracts for ship building as the British government has said it would no longer give the ship yards work to a foreign country. As an Englishman hope Salmond gets his way, as do the majority of English people polled, who ironically are more in favour than the Scots.

[Somtamnication]

Wish the bloody vote today and get it over with. The we can build that old Hadrian's wall back up and keep the pits away. Tired of them complaining year after year.

Next year they can trade their Scottish Rubles in Thailand.

[Somtamnication]

How extreme can they be? Force us to eat haggis?

[nontabury]

I think they want to know if they will still get their free handouts from the Palace of Westminster before they commit to it.

And the EU which they would no longer be a member of, also loosing the military contracts for ship building as the British government has said it would no longer give the ship yards work to a foreign country. As an Englishman hope Salmond gets his way, as do the majority of English people polled, who ironically are more in favour than the Scots.

While not a fan of David Cameron, I just wonder if we've underestimated him, he's agreed to all of Salmons tantrums, agreeing to hold the elections right after the commonwealth games, giving children of 16yrs, who are more susceptible to believing Mel Gibson, the vote. Maybe he also wants rid of the Scots, as he knows that a UK less Scotland, would guarantee the Conservatives continuous rule in Westminster, that"s of course if he's forgotten about UKIP.

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[folium]

I think they want to know if they will still get their free handouts from the Palace of Westminster before they commit to it.

And the EU which they would no longer be a member of, also loosing the military contracts for ship building as the British government has said it would no longer give the ship yards work to a foreign country. As an Englishman hope Salmond gets his way, as do the majority of English people polled, who ironically are more in favour than the Scots.

While not a fan of David Cameron, I just wonder if we've underestimated him, he's agreed to all of Salmons tantrums, agreeing to hold the elections right after the commonwealth games, giving children of 16yrs, who are more susceptible to believing Mel Gibson, the vote. Maybe he also wants rid of the Scots, as he knows that a UK less Scotland, would guarantee the Conservatives continuous rule in Westminster, that"s of course if he's forgotten about UKIP.

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Not quite so simple.

In the 2010 General Election there were 650 MPs elected, 59 from Scotland (41 Labour, 11 LibDem, 6 SNP, 1 Tory).

If you rerun 2010 without Scotland the Tories would have won a majority of 18 (305 Tory, 217 Lab, 46 LibDem, 23 others). However it is quite likely that a 2010 outcome will not be replicated in 2015, especially with the emergence of UKIP and the likely implosion of the LibDem vote. Scottish independence would not guarantee Tory supremacy in Westminster. To do that you would need to get rid of Wales, N.Ireland and every major urban area north of Watford!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2010UKElectionMap.svg

Edited February 26, 2014 by folium

[7by7]

And London; which is south of Watford!

Labour has traditionally held the majority of seats in Greater London; currently 38 of the 73 available; the Conservatives hold 28 and the Lib Dems 7.

[transam]

Is it that Scotland "feel" they will have an extra pound in the pocket when leaving the fold ?

Ooooop,s sorry , Euro or other. The pound will be out of bounds as it is a Union currency controlled by the Bank of England.

Has King Salmond thought of this.........

[kimbathewhitelion]

Than I can visit. Would also be nice if England pulled out of Ireland.

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[nontabury]

Than I can visit. Would also be nice if England pulled out of Ireland.

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I think you will find that if the majority of the people of Ulster,democratically decided to leave the UK. Then that is what would happen. As it is the majority ( Protestants and also many Catholics)

continually vote to remain in the UK, this situation may change in the coming years due to the Catholics having a higher birthrate and the Protestants suffering from ethnic cleansing.

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[phuketjock]

Is it that Scotland "feel" they will have an extra pound in the pocket when leaving the fold ?

Ooooop,s sorry , Euro or other. The pound will be out of bounds as it is a Union currency controlled by the Bank of England.

Has King Salmond thought of this.........

I would think he probably has and here is some info for you that may explain why Scotland can indeed

keep the pound.

Source,

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/euro-pound-or-scottish-pound/

Euro, Pound Sterling or Scottish Pound?

Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp | 20/03/2013 | 24 Comments

In the early exchanges on the referendum, the No Campaign made some noise by claiming that Scotland would be forced to adopt the euro and that the UK Government would refuse to let Scotland, as an independent country, use the pound (sterling) as its currency. It remains one of the major questions I am asked when giving talks on the economics of independence but, the plain fact is that neither the EU, the UK Government, or the Bank of England has the ability to affect those outcomes.

No Euro, even if we wanted to

In order to adopt the euro a country needs its currency to be committed to the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) for two years. Scotland doesn’t have a currency to commit to the ERM, and as Scotland plans to keep the pound, we therefore cannot adopt the euro, even if we wanted to, and so certainly can’t be forced to either.

Alistair Darling has said we would have to reapply to the EU from outside, and that means being forced into the euro – however that is inaccurate and even David Cameron can’t help but say he was wrong.

Not really independent?

It has been argued that Scotland wouldn’t be independent if we kept the pound, however, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium etc have a shared currency and are independent of each other – the list is almost endless. Although Scotland wouldn’t be able to set independent interest rates, all the other more easily utilised fiscal tools would be available to the Scottish Government, and the joint interest rate would also help the English and other home nation economies.

The Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group of leading economists, including former White House Chief Economic Adviser Professor Joe Stiglitz, has said that Scotland can agree to currency zone financial parameters the type of which any financially prudent developed nation should have following the lessons of the financial crisis but which do not mean a lack of flexibility to grow the Scottish economy.

Sterling is a fully convertible currency, this means that if any country in the world wants to use sterling it can. Examples of a fully convertible currency being used by other nations include Panama and El Salvador using the US dollar. Using the pound for a period, is a well proven route for countries leaving British rule (New Zealand/Ireland/Australia etc). However Scotland’s right to use sterling is stronger than other countries due to the fact that Scotland owns a population percentage share of the Bank of England (BOE), and so we will just be using a currency and services of a bank that we part-own with the other UK countries. So all that is being proposed is that Scotland will maintain the currency union that we joined hundreds of years ago and still works whilst leaving the political one that doesn’t.

[7by7]

Usual rubbish from the SNP.

"We want to be free of all the commitments and obligations the union imposes upon us; but want to keep everything which is to our advantage!"

"We want to be part of the EU, but also want to dictate our terms of membership!"

Are the Scottish people really so stupid that they believe Salmond and his cronies will get away with that?

I doubt it very much.

Edited February 28, 2014 by 7by7

[Mosha]

SNP supporter Sean Connery loves the place so much he used to support them financially. He doesn't want to live there though.

[Chicog]

SNP supporter Sean Connery loves the place so much he used to support them financially. He doesn't want to live there though.

He can't, he's hiding in the Bahamas on the run from the EU for tax evasion and money-laundering.

[phuketjock]

Usual rubbish from the SNP.

"We want to be free of all the commitments and obligations the union imposes upon us; but want to keep everything which is to our advantage!"

"We want to be part of the EU, but also want to dictate our terms of membership!"

Are the Scottish people really so stupid that they believe Salmond and his cronies will get away with that?

I doubt it very much.

You are very much entitled to your opinion 7by7 but do you actually have any

facts or info to support your claim of SNP rubbish?, if not then perhaps you would

be well advised to keep your speculative poison to yourself.

Do you think that the Scottish people are really so stupid as to not expect any of their

leaders Alex Salmond or otherwise to negotiate the best possible deal for Scotland

and its' people?

I doubt it very much.