Reform talks only way to avoid bloodshed, say Thai academics

[webfact]

POLITICS
Reform talks only way to avoid bloodshed, say academics
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Leading academics have proposed that both sides get together to address reform issues in a move to defuse the tension caused by the ongoing street protests.

A coordinating committee for Thailand's reform should be created in order to turn political fight into cooperation," social critic Prawase Wasi said yesterday.

He called on all sides to push for reform that centred on the decentralisation of power, adding that the political struggle would reoccur if power continued to be left in the hands of one ruling party.

Relevant parties need to reach an agreement on reform if future bloodshed is to be avoided, he said.

Former Supreme Administrative Court president Ackaratorn Chularat said the media had a vital role to play in disseminating accurate information on the current political climate, allowing people to form their own judgement.

If people can draw their own conclusions, then the situation will not spiral out of control, he said.

He dismissed the idea of seeking a royal intervention or getting the government to negotiate with protest leaders, saying the current situation was beyond that point.

Should the government decide not to heed protesters' demands, the stand-off would continue indefinitely, he said.

"We are trapped by an illusory idea of democracy - that it simply means an elected government - when in reality, democratic rule comprises of so many other elements," he said.

Democrat MP Nakorn Machim said a representative picked by university presidents should moderate talks between the five relevant parties - namely the prime minister, the opposition leader, party leaders, representatives from all political colours and the Association of University Presidents.

Nakorn said the talks should aim at setting up a Constitution drafting assembly to rewrite the charter within six months, paving way for House dissolution and a snap election.

After the polls, all sides should cooperate to implement major reforms, he said.

Meanwhile, People's Empowerment Foundation yesterday issued a statement calling on all political parties to avoid provocation and hatred.

The foundation, along with its network of allies, said democracy should be kept alive, and warned against resorting to a military coup or a "royally-sponsored prime minister".

It called on leaders of the anti-government protest to clarify their demand for a so-called people's council. It also called on Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to be ready to dissolve the House of Representatives if the situation got out of control.

Separately, the Chulalongkorn Doctors Network for the Protection of Ethics issued a three-point statement calling on the government to issue an apology for its contempt of the Constitutional Court.

It said the prime minister, the House speaker and the Senate speaker should take responsibility and step down.

It also said the MPs and senators who voted for the charter changes should apologise to the people before resigning en masse.


-- The Nation 2013-11-30

[NongKhaiKid]

The academics are only stating the obvious but when two sides are so entrenched reason and commonsense etc. goes out the window.

The Shin clan have so much to lose and the protestors have so much to gain but on both sides there are those and such as those with their own agendas and it's the ordinary people who are used.

[rwdrwdrwd]

The statements in this article are by far and away the most sensible I've heard over the last few weeks. Whether they can influence at this stage is a different matter.

[chooka]

Won't happen as the Yellow Shirts have flatly refused to talk or negotiate and I get the feeling they are hoping it will turn messy in a bid to help their cause. The Government has been very restrained and I am sure if protestors stormed military bases and government offices in Australia they would have been removed by force if needed by now.

[Thai at Heart]

The only reform that is going to change this country is to start locking up thieves irrespective of their so called "face".

Until then, it's all semantics.

[Balance]

Democracy is more than elections, but in a democracy elections count and elections allocate to the winner the power to govern. So, if the policies of minority party prevent it from winning elections, they have to resort to other means, such as what is happening how. I am curious as to what reforms Khun Nakorn has in mind. Would it include land reform, and perhaps tax reform so that all people pay taxes, or, perhaps they would include decentralization of industry, or maybe full university scholarships for poor students of great promise, or real agricultural education for farmers lower cost of inputs and improve yields and retention ponds in dry areas to allow for two crops per year, or instruction on diversification.

But the problems with Democracy are not limited to Thailand. The Unitied States has the same problems right now. The policies of the Republicans prevent them from winning the Presidency and many other state wide officies. Their answer is not to modify their policies, but try to prevent people from voting and to try to pretend that the last two elections were just mistakes. Democracy is hard, even for the big rich countries. Historically, Democracy has been much harder for poorer countries with rapidly changing economies.

[JRSoul]

"We are trapped by an illusory idea of democracy - that it simply means an elected government - when in reality, democratic rule comprises of so many other elements."

BINGO!

[h90]

Won't happen as the Yellow Shirts have flatly refused to talk or negotiate and I get the feeling they are hoping it will turn messy in a bid to help their cause. The Government has been very restrained and I am sure if protestors stormed military bases and government offices in Australia they would have been removed by force if needed by now.

And Yingluck told before that both stepping back or new elections won't be possible at all. So talk about what.

And for your Australian example: In Australia would be government that obvious corrupt already in jail and it would be unthinkable that the government directly tells that they don't accept the constitutional court.

The thing is that a big part of the educated population is sympathetic with the protestors. If it would come that far that both soldiers and brass think the protestors are right and the government a bunch of criminals than also in Australia they wouldn't be removed....by who? That in Yala the police brought food for the protestors says all about the feelings.

[h90]

Democracy is more than elections, but in a democracy elections count and elections allocate to the winner the power to govern. So, if the policies of minority party prevent it from winning elections, they have to resort to other means, such as what is happening how. I am curious as to what reforms Khun Nakorn has in mind. Would it include land reform, and perhaps tax reform so that all people pay taxes, or, perhaps they would include decentralization of industry, or maybe full university scholarships for poor students of great promise, or real agricultural education for farmers lower cost of inputs and improve yields and retention ponds in dry areas to allow for two crops per year, or instruction on diversification.

But the problems with Democracy are not limited to Thailand. The Unitied States has the same problems right now. The policies of the Republicans prevent them from winning the Presidency and many other state wide officies. Their answer is not to modify their policies, but try to prevent people from voting and to try to pretend that the last two elections were just mistakes. Democracy is hard, even for the big rich countries. Historically, Democracy has been much harder for poorer countries with rapidly changing economies.

Well I wouldn't use a USA comparison, because a two party system, is a special case of democracy.

For the above: The most simple most understandable example is: If a party won the majority, could it complete democratic pass a law that no further elections are necessary anymore in future?

No of course not, it wouldn't be a democracy anymore, even if the law is passed by a democratic elected parliament/PM.

So as you say, there is more than elections..

[hellodolly]

Won't happen as the Yellow Shirts have flatly refused to talk or negotiate and I get the feeling they are hoping it will turn messy in a bid to help their cause. The Government has been very restrained and I am sure if protestors stormed military bases and government offices in Australia they would have been removed by force if needed by now.

If the yellow shirts did negotiate what difference would it make. They are a minority just along for the ride. They saw a rising star and hooked their wagon to it. They would hardly be missed.

Makes no difference how this all tuirns out they will still be losers. the temple lands will not have a clear Thai title as is there is less of it to argue over. Losers no matter what.

I wonder if it has dawned on them that they should have voted in the last election.

[Thai at Heart]

"We are trapped by an illusory idea of democracy - that it simply means an elected government - when in reality, democratic rule comprises of so many other elements."

BINGO!

They are trapped in a world where there is no consequence for your actions if you are powerful.

Just look at the hissy for thaksin has thrown. Anything happen to the pad or red shirt leaders yet for their protests? Any politicians locked up for corruption?

Why should they care about anything if they are untouchable?

[hellodolly]

Democracy is more than elections, but in a democracy elections count and elections allocate to the winner the power to govern. So, if the policies of minority party prevent it from winning elections, they have to resort to other means, such as what is happening how. I am curious as to what reforms Khun Nakorn has in mind. Would it include land reform, and perhaps tax reform so that all people pay taxes, or, perhaps they would include decentralization of industry, or maybe full university scholarships for poor students of great promise, or real agricultural education for farmers lower cost of inputs and improve yields and retention ponds in dry areas to allow for two crops per year, or instruction on diversification.

But the problems with Democracy are not limited to Thailand. The Unitied States has the same problems right now. The policies of the Republicans prevent them from winning the Presidency and many other state wide officies. Their answer is not to modify their policies, but try to prevent people from voting and to try to pretend that the last two elections were just mistakes. Democracy is hard, even for the big rich countries. Historically, Democracy has been much harder for poorer countries with rapidly changing economies.

Yes it would be interesting to see what policies Khun Nakorn has in mind. He is far and away a better man than the PTPs have and I would take him any day over Suthep. It is people like him that would make the difference in the welfare of Thailand. He may not be a leader but he is the brains that knows what to do to solve a problem.

edit

He can probably spell better than me.

Edited November 30, 2013 by hellodolly

[indyuk]

Now Thailands academics are recommending the unthinkable. Reformation is already under way following a call of the peoples mandate for the government to use its power to continue their already instigated process of reform.

If Thailand attempts to enforce a third TRT- PTP - TXT? initiative of reform in Thai Politics it will result in eternal chaos.

The TRT and PTP reform process will lead Thailand to an egalitarian philosophy of governance. Clearly this will put egalitarian lawmakers between the elite and their proletariat so that no one will be able to drive Thailand to return to feudal elitism or exploitive racial dominance. Such will allow the rest of our world to recognise Thailand as their equal at last.

[indyuk]

Won't happen as the Yellow Shirts have flatly refused to talk or negotiate and I get the feeling they are hoping it will turn messy in a bid to help their cause. The Government has been very restrained and I am sure if protestors stormed military bases and government offices in Australia they would have been removed by force if needed by now.

And Yingluck told before that both stepping back or new elections won't be possible at all. So talk about what.

And for your Australian example: In Australia would be government that obvious corrupt already in jail and it would be unthinkable that the government directly tells that they don't accept the constitutional court.

The thing is that a big part of the educated population is sympathetic with the protestors. If it would come that far that both soldiers and brass think the protestors are right and the government a bunch of criminals than also in Australia they wouldn't be removed....by who? That in Yala the police brought food for the protestors says all about the feelings.

h90 I find your text astonishing coming from someone that claims to be 'educated'. The fact is that PM Yingluck is correct. If Thailand attempts to enforce a third TRT- PTP - TXT? initiative of reform in Thai Politics it will result in eternal chaos.

The TRT and PTP reform process will lead Thailand to an egalitarian philosophy of governance. Clearly this will put egalitarian lawmakers between the elite and their proletariat so that no one will be able to drive Thailand to return to feudal elitism or exploitive racial dominance. Such will allow the rest of our world to recognise Thailand as their equal at last.

[Baerboxer]

Now Thailands academics are recommending the unthinkable. Reformation is already under way following a call of the peoples mandate for the government to use its power to continue their already instigated process of reform.

If Thailand attempts to enforce a third TRT- PTP - TXT? initiative of reform in Thai Politics it will result in eternal chaos.

The TRT and PTP reform process will lead Thailand to an egalitarian philosophy of governance. Clearly this will put egalitarian lawmakers between the elite and their proletariat so that no one will be able to drive Thailand to return to feudal elitism or exploitive racial dominance. Such will allow the rest of our world to recognise Thailand as their equal at last.

Unfortunately, you probably believe that.

PTP's reform "process" will lead to the whitewash and return to power of Thaksin Shinawatra, who will continue to remove or severely weaken all checks and balances that has been started and move the country towards a one party state dictatorship dominated by his family. Then you will see just how egalitarian and fair his new laws will be. Just like Mugabe, Stalin, Castro, Marcos, Mao - all very egalitarian.