1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[Emptyset]

RT@ChadapornLin: Reports of Ramkamhaeng students still stuck on campus with gunmen still present targeting them; police say they're on their way

I would have thought that police would have already been there? Clashes between protest groups all night, and there are no police??

There were police somewhere, but clashes happened outside of area they could control according to this reporter from Voice TV:

Prapapoom Eiamsom ‏@Prapapoom 27m

Injured and deaths were bcoz they got out of police wall and fought. Everyone behind the wall was safe.

Not sure what's happening at RU...

Edited December 1, 2013 by Emptyset

[Hawkman]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

1. Abhisit and Suthep don't want to be cleared through an amnesty bill. If there are charges against them they want to face them the correct way through a legit court. Not like someone who refuses to come back and face his crimes and uses the propaganda message you red shirts have believed - "Politically motivated!" - Well if you're innocent, come back and face the charges, then. Why doesn't he?

2. The bill will clear 2500 cases of corruption. You think people should just get away with that? You think the Government should put one man before it's people. You think the Government should potentially damage the country's finances with a rice pledging scheme that is making some people very rich indeed. God knows what will happen if they get the hands on the 2 trillion loan. The money should be going into schools and hospitals not some corrupt MP and Farm owner's pockets!

3. Nothing is stopping the people working in farms for seeking out a new life in Bangkok. I know a few people in BKK that have done that, set up their own business. Now at least one of these friends is a red shirt, but even she is anti the bill and thinks the Government are not acting out in the best interests in Democracy.

4. It's clear that some red shirt supporters here have an issue with people living a life in BKK and earning a bit of money. What's wrong with that? Is it jealousy? Bitterness? Funny how the red shirts are brainwashed into thinking it's the Elite they are fighting against, where many of the Elite are actually Thaksin supporters and you don't get more elite than the Thaksin family, do you?

5. Thaksin doesn't give one monkey about the poor in Isaan, well he does but only for his political gain. He wants power, the end of. As a friend who knows someone high up in the Thaksin circles said, they don't want Thais to be educated, easily controllable that way. You're being brainwashed.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Hawkman

[bifftastic]

Taking a step back then, what DOES he want?

And do you agree with it?

he wants Thaksin out the picture for good, no more proxy governments no more clones no more corruption.

And it seems he wants to achieve that through limiting the one-man-one-vote concept. It's hard to see how that can be achieved otherwise, as he will keep on accusing 'everyone who doesn't agree with him' as being under the influence of Thaksin. Even if Thaksin committed suicide today he would likely just find another bogeyman or 'Thaksin regime remnants' to continue his crusade against. It really wouldn't end until he has a PAD favored form of government. (i.e. something other than a parliamentary democracy in the commonly understood definition.)

Tell me if Thaksin wasn't around would there have been the rice scam, the amnesty bill, the constitutional changes, or any of the catalysts of public discontent? If not for Thaksin would there have ever been the yellowshirts and redshirts?

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

[Alwyn]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

So, in 2010 it was all Suthep and Abhisit's fault, and now it is again all their fault. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Sent from my phone ...

There would seem to be a common denominator though

Yep. Thaksin.

I was looking at the two names you mentioned previously and i was seeing Suthep. Actually the reall common denominator is anarchy. Topple an elected government ad replace it with an unelected peoples government is pretty anrachic

[brewsterbudgen]

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

Which is what some people seem to want to return to!

[gerry1011]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Those shot were "students" caught in crossfire. Reports say that the dead "student" was shot by another "student" (that one must have been high).

The "students" were warned not to confront the red shirts. But since they were apparently looking for new sensations, it was difficult to avoid trouble.

Here are a few pictures of the "students" in action, and, hopefully, after the action.

A nice bunch of gently guys who would never do anything wrong

The yellow thugs of Suthep seem to be well "educated" indeed... And they have a whistle

<snipped photos>

You should be able to link to these reports then?

The students were warned by Jatuporn not to confront the red shirts "or else". It seems we know what the "or else" means now.

I like how you link to completely separate incidents to try to prove your propaganda. The 4 in the bottom picture was from a few days ago.

Here it is: https://www.facebook.com/stopdadjarit2

My pleasure

I like your way to, in "total good faith", question everything that could taint the reputation of the "good and gentle students" who fight against the evil government. No, these guys are not yellow thugs recruited by Suthep, of course. These are horrible stinky reds, disguised in yellow and wearing a whistle

Edited December 1, 2013 by gerry1011

[Alwyn]

So, in 2010 it was all Suthep and Abhisit's fault, and now it is again all their fault. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Sent from my phone ...

There would seem to be a common denominator though

Yep. Thaksin.

And almost half the country agrees with you. The other half does not.

Next.

Next? Anrachy

[BrooklynNY]

Base on live report from a website following up the unrest situation, since 5PM. yesterday until now 9:19 AM of Sunday, there has not any single police went to rescue RU uni students (about 100 students) are hiding from snipers shooting randomly at will into students who are trying to flea. In the opposite there are police protecting those red shirts group to go back to their provinces.

[Melonade]

maybe already posted but the national is claiming there were four killed last night.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Jatuporn-claims-four-reds-killed-last-night-30221013.html

lots of sirens going by in the last couple of hours..

[whybother]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Those shot were "students" caught in crossfire. Reports say that the dead "student" was shot by another "student" (that one must have been high).

The "students" were warned not to confront the red shirts. But since they were apparently looking for new sensations, it was difficult to avoid trouble.

Here are a few pictures of the "students" in action, and, hopefully, after the action.

A nice bunch of gently guys who would never do anything wrong

The yellow thugs of Suthep seem to be well "educated" indeed... And they have a whistle

<snipped photos>

You should be able to link to these reports then?

The students were warned by Jatuporn not to confront the red shirts "or else". It seems we know what the "or else" means now.

I like how you link to completely separate incidents to try to prove your propaganda. The 4 in the bottom picture was from a few days ago.

Here it is: https://www.facebook.com/stopdadjarit2

My pleasure

Yeah. Really believable.

[dunks]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

I agree. Get rid of the Shinawatra criminals and the problem is solved. Not sure why it has not been carried out yet.

[whybother]

maybe already posted but the national is claiming there were four killed last night.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Jatuporn-claims-four-reds-killed-last-night-30221013.html

lots of sirens going by in the last couple of hours..

Jatuporn is claiming there were four killed last night.

The Nation is reporting his claims. There doesn't seem to much other evidence of 4 red shirts killed.

[umbanda]

This is stupidity.....

The PM deny that she is a Taskin puppet...but..the streets are full of her's people propaganda banners showing Taskin pictures in Chiang Rai..one of Tasking supporting provinces....The Chiang Rai major just started an expensive project building a wide road and a sky train connecting downtown with the airport and the stadium in Bandu....All the ground around that new road is empty and undeveloped, already expensive but not for sale yet. I beat that belongs to Mr, Taskin family...Politics is not about the people wellness..is about power and money. The people is just a politic tool to get it, and change never exit. People are used for free, and will be always the losers...some or many dying in vain...

Somebody said "If you have nothing to die for ...you have nothing to live for"....but that one was an exceptional man. Unfortunately there are not enough of that kind of people in this world.....ready to die for justice and honesty.

Edited December 1, 2013 by umbanda

[pisico]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

So, in 2010 it was all Suthep and Abhisit's fault, and now it is again all their fault. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Sent from my phone ...

Why not?

1- Then you mean that in 2010 the Royal Thai Army took it upon itself (without anyone in office ordering them) to escalate armed attacks against the Red Shirts in Ratchaphrasong, including snipers assassinations. Suthep was appointed by Abhisit in charge of enforcing emergency decrees: he was running the show.

2- Who are the ones inciting breaking of the law and order in Bangkok and beyond for almost a month in Democracy Monument?

[waza]

he wants Thaksin out the picture for good, no more proxy governments no more clones no more corruption.

And it seems he wants to achieve that through limiting the one-man-one-vote concept. It's hard to see how that can be achieved otherwise, as he will keep on accusing 'everyone who doesn't agree with him' as being under the influence of Thaksin. Even if Thaksin committed suicide today he would likely just find another bogeyman or 'Thaksin regime remnants' to continue his crusade against. It really wouldn't end until he has a PAD favored form of government. (i.e. something other than a parliamentary democracy in the commonly understood definition.)

Tell me if Thaksin wasn't around would there have been the rice scam, the amnesty bill, the constitutional changes, or any of the catalysts of public discontent? If not for Thaksin would there have ever been the yellowshirts and redshirts?

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

Very doubtful, the public feeling of discontent and need for a greater say in their lives, the move for empowerment was already there, the writing was on the wall as evidenced in the Arab spring, the fall of communism ect. Internal and external pressure was mounting for a political change all that was needed was a political conduit to arise to give momentum to that grass roots movement. Thaksin just used and perverted it for his own empowerment and enrichment, he has set the democratisation of Thailand back decades.

Edited December 1, 2013 by waza

[pisico]

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

Which is what some people seem to want to return to!

Majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored?

Are you referring to the 15 million who voted for Pheu Thai or the 11 million who voted Democrat?"

[LuckyLew]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

If he ever returns to Thailand I believe the simple solution will then be acted out

[metisdead]

A post containing Thai language has been removed as well as the replies. English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[blackman]

Four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

The Sunday Nation:

BANGKOK: -- At least four people were injured in Ramkhamhaeng University yesterday evening after gunshots were heard. The drama was thought to be related to clashes earlier with red-shirts from the nearby Rajamongala Stadium.

Meanwhile, the Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO) has announced the closure of Ramkhamhaeng Road from Ramkhamhaeng to Lam Sali Intersection, after violence in the area.

Earlier in the afternoon, dozens of protesters in an anti-red shirt rally harassed men near the university by blowing whistles at them. The red shirts are holding a rally to support the government at the stadium.

Some protesters beat on a taxi transporting red shirts with their fists and sticks and later some protesters threw rocks and beat a passing public bus.

A group of men also showed their opposition to the reds by setting a red T-shirt on fire, then stamping on it.

These incidents prompted RU rector Assoc Prof Wuttisak Larpcharoensap to order all the protesting RU students to go back into the university compound.

The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesters earlier.

There was a fistfight and one student got minor injury, according to a reporter with the pro-Democrats' Blue Sky TV network at the scene.

Hundreds of Ramkhamhaeng University students yesterday joined in an anti-red shirts rally in front of the university, after a female student was attacked by the red shirts because she wore a whistle necklace.

The protesters set up stage at about noon. After representatives from Hua Mark and Wang Thonglang police stations came to receive their petition on the case and protesters were seeing them off, a fistfight between two men and a group of the protesters began. Protest leaders and police tried to break them up.

While inbound Ramkhamhaeng Soi 61 had been already blocked, police later set up barricades to separate the two groups.

Meanwhile, red-shirts from several provinces were mobilised yesterday to join the Bangkok rally, including from Udon Thani, Nakhon Ratchasima, Kalasin, Pathum Thani and Phitsanulok.

Red-shirt leader Thida Thawornseth yesterday told a pro-government rally at Rajamangala Stadium that the red shirts should not allow the protesters to overthrow an elected government.

More protesters coming

Udon Thani red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana, who is bringing 1,500 people on board 20 buses to Bangkok, claimed that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Friday phoned and asked him to mobilise supporters.

A leading red-shirt in Nakhon Ratchasima's Muang district, Somphot Prasartthai, said at least 1,500 reds from Muang district were registered to board 15 buses and 20 vans.

He said that at least 13,000 people from the province’s 32 districts would be mobilised to Bangkok and would remain until they had victory over the anti-government protesters. He said they would not use violence but were keen to show that there were as many people in support of the government.

Kalasin red-shirts also yesterday mobilised 3,000 people to support the Yingluck government along with other reds in Bangkok, Kalasin area 3 red-shirt coordinator Pian Donpanya said.

In Phitsanulok, 20 buses carrying over 500 red-shirts departed at 9am to join the Bangkok rally, while 1,500 reds were coming from Muang district in Pathum Thani also.

Suthep Thaugsuban, key leader of the anti-Thaksin regime campaign, has called for more supporters to come to Bangkok particularly from the South.

In Satun's Muang district, former People's Alliance for Democracy protester Udomsri Chantharassami hosted a "tea party campaign to aid the nation", serving people with "Patongko" deep-fried dough sticks, fermented rice noodles and rice noodle with coconut milk at a field in tambon Khlong Khud, to raise funds for her group's travel expenses to join the Bangkok rally. And inChumphon, demonstrators outside city hall said they had prepared 15 buses to take volunteers to join the Bangkok rally.

-- The Nation 2013-12-01

Udon Thani red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana, who is bringing 1,500 people on board 20 buses to Bangkok, claimed that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Friday phoned and asked him to mobilise supporters.

he said he would pay 500 baht a day and 1 million for anyone who dies

[shaurene]

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

[whybother]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

So, in 2010 it was all Suthep and Abhisit's fault, and now it is again all their fault. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Sent from my phone ...

Why not?

1- Then you mean that in 2010 the Royal Thai Army took it upon itself (without anyone in office ordering them) to escalate armed attacks against the Red Shirts in Ratchaphrasong, including snipers assassinations. Suthep was appointed by Abhisit in charge of enforcing emergency decrees: he was running the show.

2- Who are the ones inciting breaking of the law and order in Bangkok and beyond for almost a month in Democracy Monument?

Go back and look at the time line in 2010. It's very similar to now. The government then let the red shirts protest. The red shirts escalated every time the then government ignored them. The red shirt leaders incited the protesters to break the law for weeks before they attempts were made to disperse them. The only difference so far is that the protesters haven't brought out their molotov cocktails as the red shirts did when storming Thaicom. If the government try to disperse the protests and the police get blown up by grenades, I wonder whether the police would just sit back and allow it to happen or whether they would fire back and kill protesters.

[DerringDo]

Lot of blinkers around this morning, very sad indeed.

Hopefully the violence doesn't spread too widely. I have reds and yellows in my extended family too and they don't talk about the issues because it is not "sanook" which is quite a sad indictment of the situation.

[whybother]

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

Which is what some people seem to want to return to!

Majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored?

Are you referring to the 15 million who voted for Pheu Thai or the 11 million who voted Democrat?"

Don't forget the 4 million that didn't vote PTP or Democrat, and the 10 or so million that didn't vote for anyone.

[DocN]

....

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

[waza]

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

Wow thanks for that sage like advice shaurene, I didn't realise that anonymous posting on a English speaking forum had such a profound affect on Thailand and its people.

Edited December 1, 2013 by waza

[Harleys]

WHERE IS BUDDHA?

I ask myself, what else is fake in Thailand. Look up statistics, compare Thailand with any other country, you will get a shock for your life.

No 1 in political turmoils/unrest/coups

No 5 on the list of countries with the chances of any terrorist attacks (right after Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Russia) I can remember, only 10 years ago, Thailand wasn't even among the first 100, now 5th)

Road rage? Every second all over the place

Family violence? Gosh, don't mention!

Racism, Discrimination? Thailand would win every contest.

And that in a country that is being promoted as the country of "SMILES", with fanatic wat-runers praying to Buddha day i day out, monks on the streets all the time, everywhere.

THAILAND, WHERE IS YOUR SENSE OF PEACE AND CALMNESS, UNDERSTANDING, CARE AND APPRECIATION ???

[LuckyLew]

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

Which is what some people seem to want to return to!

Majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored?

Are you referring to the 15 million who voted for Pheu Thai or the 11 million who voted Democrat?"

All 26 million are being ignored ... and for that matter pretty much every citizen of Thailand is being ignored.

Unless you are family, friends or business partners with those in power you are being ignored. They people in power are setting Thailand back decades and make them and their friends very rich while doing so. They people in power do not care the end result as long as their accounts keep getting more and more zeroes at the end. This is not a battle for democracy it is a war for power, those sitting behind desk do not care about the collateral damage. They want more and more power ... whether they are red white blue yellow pink or purple .... well wait I object to purple, gotta draw the line somewhere, that is all they want because if they are in power they control the purse strings.

[AleG]

maybe already posted but the national is claiming there were four killed last night.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Jatuporn-claims-four-reds-killed-last-night-30221013.html

lots of sirens going by in the last couple of hours..

Jatuporn is claiming there were four killed last night.

The Nation is reporting his claims. There doesn't seem to much other evidence of 4 red shirts killed.

The four "dead" Red Shirts are probably relatives of the hundreds killed during the 2009 protests....

[smedly]

Just the same old arguments over and over, one thing is clear about Thailand - Democracy isn't working because it's not set up properly to enable it to work and when they get close the sitting government wants to change the rules and hence we have this continuous cycle the last decades.

I'm out of this thread as it's like a broken record

One thing we do know is a young boy lost his life at the hands of a murderer and they will get off free - shame

[bangon04]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

The army taking over is probably what would lead to civil war.

Have the Thai people found out that the Royal Thai Police are actually worse than useless? Or is it still not obvious?