1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[Harleys]

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

Some of us "FALANGE" (would you please learn your own language, before attempting to mix it with any other, have their family here, pardon me!

You are the best example of THAI RACISM and DISCRIMINATION and YOUR CALIBRE is to be blamed for Thailand getting a bad reputation!

So YOU better shut up or stop spreading your racist comments, false hero!

[Lite Beer]

One killed as 'V-Day' eve violence erupts

BANGKOK: A man was shot dead and five others suffered gunshot wounds on Saturday as thousands of red-shirt supporters and anti-government students clashed during running street battles.


A man was seriously hurt after being attacked yesterday behind Ramkhamhaeng University in the Hua Mak area.

BANGKOK: -- ''A 21-year-old man was shot dead by two bullets to his left side,'' said Boonchuay Pochantong, an official at a police station near Ramkhamhaeng University where unrest broke out earlier.

The violence followed a confrontation between a red-shirt security guard and a Ramkhamhaeng student.

It also came on the eve of a ''total seizure'' campaign announced by anti-government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban. He is urging anti-government protesters to take control of all key government agencies today as part of a ''Victory Day'' push.

Nearly 3,000 troops will be deployed to reinforce security in Bangkok, Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (Capo) spokesman Piya Utayo said.

''From tonight there will be soldiers out to take care of security,'' he said in a televised address, adding that 2,730 military personnel from the army, navy and airforce would take part.

Saturday's violence flared in front of the university just after 4pm when a group of red shirts on pick-up trucks bound for their rally site at Rajamangala Stadium appeared to taunt the anti-government protesters.

Both groups exchanged verbal abuse before a brawl broke out.

It was estimated that about 3,000 people were involved in the scuffle, with several people injured on both sides.

More violence erupted sporadically throughout the afternoon and early evening as protesters refused orders to retreat into the university compound.

A Bangkok Post reporter heard gunshots and what sounded like an explosion near the university at about 8pm.

A 29-year-old Cambodian worker and two university students were taken to hospital a short time later with bullet wounds.

About 9pm, a third male student was shot in front of Rajamangala national stadium.

The worker was apparently a bystander and was shot in the back by a stray round.

A witness said he saw a man firing a gun from within a group of red shirt guards who were gathering near the back entrance of the university.

The man fired into the air and also at the students.

A group of Ramkhamhaeng students also reportedly smashed a taxi window shortly after the initial clash when they spotted a passenger wearing a red shirt.

Some students were also seen using wooden clubs and other objects to vandalise a city bus being used by red-shirt supporters to get to the stadium rally site. About 600 police officers were rushed to the scene to restore order.

Ramkhamhaeng Road, from Lam Salee intersection to the front of the university, was closed to traffic last night.

Speaking at the Democracy Monument demonstration base, ex-Democrat MP and protest leader Sathit Wongnongtoey claimed that some police officers had taken off their uniforms and donned red shirts to attack Ramkhamhaeng students in front of the university.

The officers had set up barricades to create a siege situation, he claimed.

Mr Sathit called on demonstrators at Democracy Monument to move to the university to help the students.

He said if Capo fails to control the situation at Ramkhamhaeng, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Deputy Prime Minister Pracha Promnok must take responsibility.

Ms Yingluck on Saturday affirmed authorities would not use force on demonstrators and called for talks to settle the political problems.

Police will handle the situation in accordance with the law, she said.

Red-shirt supporters nationwide yesterday began leaving their home provinces to join the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) rally at Rajamangala Stadium, vowing to ''protect democracy'' until the anti-government demonstrators end their campaign.

It followed a call by UDD leader Tida Tawornseth for red shirts to put on a show of force in the capital after Mr Suthep earlier told his supporters to lay siege to Government House and all key government offices today.

''I beg all red-shirt sisters and brothers to come out while the Pheu Thai Party is still the elected government and still has power. Or will you come when it is too late?'' Ms Tida said.

Jatuporn Prompan, a UDD leader, said the government should not let Mr Suthep besiege government agencies.

He said Mr Suthep was trying to entice the government into using violence so the army would be forced to intervene.

In Udon Thani on Saturday, Khon Rak Udon Club chairman Khwanchai Praipana, said he was leading about 1,000 people to join the UDD rally in Bangkok after ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra talked to him over the phone and asked for support.

Thousands of anti-government protesters on Saturday occupied the compound of the state telecommunications firm TOT Plc, padlocked the doors of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), and partially cut off electricity at CAT Telecom.

Speaking last night to the crowd at the government administrative headquarters in Chaeng Watthana Road which the protesters have occupied since Wednesday, Mr Suthep urged Bangkok residents to join the ''V-Day'' operation by going to government agencies near their homes at 10.45am on Sunday.

He said the protesters would seize 10 government installations, including Government House and the Royal Thai Police headquarters.

People in other provinces should converge at their respective provincial halls, he said.


-- Phuket News 2013-12-01

[thaimat]

"The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesters earlier."...meaning Red Shirts

More than 20,000 policemen, Army to be deployed to defend 10 sites from protesters today

BANGKOK: -- More than 21,000 police will guard key state offices including Government House today, when anti-government protesters plan to take control of 10 targeted locations, as part of their "fight to uproot the Thaksin regime".

The government's Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO) and the Metropolitan Police will deploy 21,550 policemen in and around government offices in Bangkok, including Government House and Parliament, a police source said.

At the request of the CAPO, soldiers from Thailand's three-armed forces will be sent today to help police deal with protesters attempting to occupy government offices in the capital, a high-ranking source in the military said. The unarmed troops will be responsible for preventing damage to state property and government offices, the source said, adding that they would not confront protesters.

"Soldiers will assist the police, but police will still be at the forefront of operations. Troops will not man checkpoints or patrol the streets," the source added. The prime minister yesterday also confirmed that unarmed soldiers would help with maintaining peace and order in certain areas.

The CAPO yesterday ordered closure of 14 road sections around Government House and Parliament and declared areas around the Royal Thai Police headquarters, Police Hospital and Chulalongkorn Hospital off-limits for protesters.

Metropolitan Police chief Maj-General Camronvit Toopkrajank chaired a meeting yesterday about security measures for the compounds, in preparation for the planned occupations. Participants including many senior police were informed about crowd-control measures and suppression of a protest - in line with international standards.

The Metropolitan Police chief prohibited all staff against taking leave at this time until further notice, the source said. About 50 fire extinguishers were distributed to different divisions of the Metropolitan Police in case of fire, according to the source.

Some 8,400 policemen would be deployed to guard Government House, Parliament and the Metropolitan Police Bureau, another police source said. Protest leader Suthep Thauguban, who is also secretary-general of the newly-formed People's Democratic Reform Committee, did not name Parliament among the 10 state offices the protesters will try to seize control of today.

Deputy Metropolitan Police commissioner Maj-General Samroeng Suwanpong said yesterday police would "seriously enforce" the Internal Security Act (ISA) against any protester attempting to enter Government House, Parliament and other key government offices. The authorities would focus on negotiations with protesters but would not allow them to trespass into a government office, CAPO spokesman Police Maj-General Piya Uthayo said yesterday.

"It is now clear that the protests are not peaceful. It is illegal to trespass into government offices. Also, weapons have been found at protest sites," Piya said. "Police will not allow protesters to trespass into important government offices, including Government House, Parliament and Royal Thai Police headquarters, as running of the country will be affected," he said.

"All the measures taken will be in line with the international standards. The focus will be on negotiation."

He said that the CAPO was pleased to have representatives from human rights organisations, academia and the media to observe the police's handling of the protesters.

Many government offices in Bangkok, which is now under the ISA, have been guarded by thousands of police and surrounded by concrete barriers and barbed-wire fences.

Crowd-control equipment such as batons, shields, teargas canisters, and vehicles equipped with long range acoustic devices and high-pressure water jets have also been spotted inside compounds. The police's preparation came as Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday ruled out the use of violence to tackle the protests.

"Today, we choose to be condemned as a weak government, not using force and being invaded by protesters," the prime minister said in a television broadcast. "It is better than setting a deadline to regain our ground and leading to people's suffering," she said.

The numbers of anti- and pro-government demonstrators have "increased continuously" yesterday, according to CAPO deputy spokesman Maj-General Anuch Romayanand. He said police were deployed at Ramkhamhaeng University, which is adjacent to Rajamangala Stadium, where the red shirts were gathering in support of the government, in an attempt to prevent violence.

He claimed there had been attempts to create violence between both sides. Peace advocates urged both sides yesterday to avoid violence. Gothom Arya, director of Mahidol University's Research Centre for Peace Building, said that conflict should not lead to violence, as it could cause death.

-- The Nation 2013-12-01

[thaimat]

So Kwanchai and his red shirts couldn't decide by themselves that they needed to come to Bangkok to "protect democracy". They had to be told to do it by Thaksin.

Sent from my phone ...

"The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesters earlier."... Meaning RedShirts

[bbbbooboo]

Yes we should let the Thais sort out their political problems....hmm....now I'm really starting to feel apprehensive

[HUAHIN62]

He was a 23 year old soldier that went to the stadium with his girl friend (Bangkok post 1 Dec). They were attacked by "students" and retaliated and one of the "students" started shooting. I put student in "" as the term student have very often been used in this protest when it was clear that they were not students. The red shirts have called off their rally to avoid further clashes, lets hope they are able to go home without further deaths.

[zydeco]

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

We are not participating, thank you. Nor are we doing anything to interfere with the Thai people's self determination. We are commenting. In an English language forum devoted to Thai topics. They're doing the same thing over on cnn.com. Are you going to go over there and issue the same ultimatum?

[Lite Beer]

Two dead, 45 wounded in Thai political violence

BANGKOK, December 1, 2013 (AFP) - Two people have been killed and 45 wounded during political violence in the Thai capital, emergency services said Sunday, as the opposition vowed a final push to overthrow the government.

"The confirmed toll is now two dead and 45 injured," an official at the city's Erawan emergency centre told AFP.

The circumstances were unclear but the violence broke out after a confrontation late Saturday between opposition protesters and government supporters staging their own rally at a Bangkok stadium in support of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-12-01

[spidermike007]

With the situation deteriorating, authorities announced more than 2,700 troops would be mobilised to reinforce security in Bangkok, the first time a significant number of soldiers have been deployed to cope with the unrest.

Justifying the government's use of military force against its people is the government's job, not the media's.

"We have information that there will be efforts to escalate violence in several areas," said National Police spokesman Piya Utayo.

Yes, the Jatuporn is ordering his troops to commit murder and other violence - but if you just say it like this it makes it look like the anti-government protestors are the one's ordering violence.

Wow. Do we have some intelligent, objective analysis here? Refreshing. I am always hesitant to believe the party line told in the news here. And I thought the news was censored back in the US. Very difficult to get the real news here. So, good to see some insight, as we all wonder what is really going on here. You very well might be right about the red shirt squad.

[BestBitterPhuket]

And another incorrect and misleading item from the AP article:

"The protesters' arch enemy Thaksin lives in self-imposed exile to avoid a jail term for a corruption conviction that he contends is politically motivated, but is widely believed to be the real power behind the ruling party."

His conviction is not for corruption it's for abuse of power which is an entirely different subject. AP always says this and always adds the tag about 'he contends is politically motivated'.

AP know the details of the charge quite well and it's been pointed out to them before that their words are incorrect and misleading but they never correct their writing.

The said charge and conviction are not politically motivated, in fact he was found guilty and was given 2 years in jail whilst his own party was the government. He had the chance of appeal but didn't appeal.

Can't you read? AP does not state that the charge and conviction is politically motivated, but the write that 'HE contends is politically motivated', stating what the accused/convicted is saying. This is good reporting. Most news agencies use the same statement. In the case of Malaysia's Anwar Ibrahim who was framed and convicted in a bogus court case in the Malaysian power struggle in the late 90's, the news agencies would always use the same statement, because they know that the prosecution and courts in both Malaysia and Thailand at times are used as political instruments.

[Farfetched]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

Pardon me, but this sounds like your promoting the assassination of former Prime Minister Thaksin. You sir, and I use the word "sir" with total disgust to you, should be arrested for solicitation of murder.

[bifftastic]

No, there would've been the same old style corruption instead. With the majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored completely.

Which is what some people seem to want to return to!

Majority of the people in the Kingdom being ignored?

Are you referring to the 15 million who voted for Pheu Thai or the 11 million who voted Democrat?"

The 23 or so million in the North and the 21 or so million in Isaan

[LuckyLew]

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

This might be part of the problem

It is "farang", maybe with a better education system and being able to read and write people on all sides of the color war would be able to make knowledgeable and informed decisions ....

Until then .... same same different different day day

[mikemac]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

"He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters."

"It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country."

Mayhem ? Death ? Chaos ? Well done ! Your brilliant post just described Thaksin's role in the 2010 catastrophe down to a "T".

Keep up the good work.

[sunshine51]

"The government's Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO)"...Kind of an Orwellian

phrase this isn't it! And yeah...Big Brother is watching...I only wonder if he's drooling yet.

Same shit...different year. The growing pains of young democracy....simply wonderful eh?

[Siripon]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

Pardon me, but this sounds like your promoting the assassination of former Prime Minister Thaksin. You sir, and I use the word "sir" with total disgust to you, should be arrested for solicitation of murder.

You misunderstand his post, he's simply suggesting Thaksin leaves politics for ever, how that happens is another issue.

[retiredaamt]

Wouldn't a unelected "Peoples Council" be the same as a dictatorship. Something similar to this happened in Germany by a man with a mustache.

[ballpoint]

Here's your "peaceful" redshirts. From the Thai live news thread:

Ramkhamhaeng students, residents of boarding houses behind campus stranded by red shirts

BANGKOK: -- A lot of red-shirt guards were seen rampaging in front of and behind the Ramkhamhaeng University campus, trapping both students inside the campus and people living in boarding houses in the areas.

T News reported that about 30 red-shirt guards from Rajamangala Stadium went to road in front of the university at 6 am and clashed with the students. Explosion and gunfire were heard now and then.

A woman living in a boarding house behind the university said she could not go to work because there were a lot of red shirts on the road waiting to attack the students.

-- The Nation 2013-12-01

End of item.

<Edited to make it clear where the clipping ends and my input begins>

From various news reports, the sequence of events from non red sources goes:

Red shirts attack a female student for wearing a whistle around her neck. This draws a larger student crowd.

Jatuporn makes his threat.

A group of redshirts leave the stadium on motorcycles and attack the students.

Students retaliate and attack anyone in red.

Shots are fired, by who?

The red leaders, having achieved their objective in painting anti-government protestors as violent, call off the rally, washing their hands of any future violence.

A number of red guards, with or without the blessing of the leaders, remain to keep the situation tense.

I can only hope that the rector of the university makes a public statement clarifying his allegations of red violence prior to the main event. However, he is likely to be getting calls from "concerned" government representatives explaining the dangers should he choose to do so.

Edited December 1, 2013 by ballpoint

[Emptyset]

So Kwanchai and his red shirts couldn't decide by themselves that they needed to come to Bangkok to "protect democracy". They had to be told to do it by Thaksin.

Sent from my phone ...

"The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesters earlier."... Meaning RedShirts

None of the journalists that followed students have mentioned anything about this. Actually, I did see some pictures of red shirts leaving Rajamangala on motorcycles, but I think that was a while after students had already begun attacking red shirts. How did they provoke them, anyway?

[Bagwan]

Looks like logistics have beaten the redshirts and they are going home

They had the good sense (this time) not to burden the city with it. That means a time limited gathering. I'm not sure you prefer them to take the other option and hit town?

Right, didn't think so. And more importantly, neither do they.

824923610.jpg

The people that they bused in for this would be pretty annoyed that they're going straight back home after a couple of hours. I would imagine that there are some that haven't even arrived yet.

But I would think that the bus owners/drivers are relieved that they don't have to enter a potential maelstrom. Given Thaksin's record I wouldn't rely on him picking up the bill for damage to the bus or hospital bills.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Bagwan

[Roadman]

All this because one evil man - Suthep - wants to escape a court appearance for mass murder. He is prepared to destroy his country to escape justice - clearly the most evil & repugnant man in post-war Thai history. Reports now coming in on news thread that the guns-for-hire yellow fascists bussed in to cause mayhem & terror have now shot & killed some pro-democracy red protesters. The Yellows are fascist terrorists, no more no less, being manipulated by this monster trying to escape justice - and Bangkok may burn because of him.

If you block out names and colours, I would swear you were talking about 2010

Yes. Ironic, isn't it.

We could just repost everything that has been said in the 2010 topics, swapping out sides.

Or we could actually discuss the larger issues, not what one side's thugs are doing to the other. Few news sources ever get there, especially not within Thailand.

I do see some signs of common sense breaking out at the likes of The Nation. That shows that saner people are having doubts about the Suthep way. If either side's thugs pull enough mayhem though then those saner voices will go silent.

The saner people were saying right at the start that both Suthep and Thaksin and others alike need to be removed from the political picture at the point where Suthep overstepped the mark when he had made Pheu Thai back down over the amnesty bill. Everybody should have buggered off home then and come back out again in a larger mass in 180 days time when the Pheu Thai Khwai again pushed the dictator's agenda for being above the law. Somehow I do not think it really matters as what would have been the inevitable in 180 days time from the senators rejection of the amnesty bill is probably the same outcome as now. The Army next time around need to have a bigger cleaning agenda.

Que sara sara...

[ballpoint]

So Kwanchai and his red shirts couldn't decide by themselves that they needed to come to Bangkok to "protect democracy". They had to be told to do it by Thaksin.

Sent from my phone ...

"The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesters earlier."... Meaning RedShirts

None of the journalists that followed students have mentioned anything about this. Actually, I did see some pictures of red shirts leaving Rajamangala on motorcycles, but I think that was a while after students had already begun attacking red shirts. How did they provoke them, anyway?

There was an item that I posted on the other thread from the Coconuts agency, showing a group of men on motorcycles, wearing Thai flag bandanas, as the anti-government protestors do, and alledging they were red shirts from the stadium. This was before the main event.

Some posters have called the headmaster of Harrow a liar on the other thread. How long before the rector of RU is being called one here?

[Lite Beer]

RAMKAMHAENG CLASH
Two killed and 45 others injured : CAPO
THE NATION

A21-year-old student was killed became one of two victims of the clash on Saturday night in Ramkhamhaeng University Saturday evening.

The victim was Taweesak Phokaew who was rushed to a hospital after being shot at his abomen. He was pronounced dead at the hospital. Five others students were also wounded.

The Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO) did not identify the second victim.

It has earlier announced the closure of Ramkhamhaeng Road from Ramkhamhaeng to Lam Sali Intersection, after violence in the area.

Earlier, in the afternoon, dozens of protesters in an anti-red shirt rally, harassed several men near the university by blowing whistles at them. The red shirts are holding a rally to support the government at the stadium.

Some protesters outside RU beat on a taxi transporting red shirts with their fists and sticks and later some students threw rocks and beat a passing bus.

A group of men also showed their opposition to the reds by setting a red T-shirt on fire, then stamping on it.

These incidents prompted RU rector Assoc Prof Wuttisak Larpcharoensap to order the RU students to go back into the university compound.

The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesting students earlier.

There was a fistfight and one student a got minor injury, according to a reporter with the pro-Democrats' Blue Sky TV network at the scene.

Hundreds of protesters Saturday joined in an anti-red shirts rally in front of the university, after a female student was attacked by the red shirts because she wore a whistle necklace.

The protesters set up stage at about noon. After representatives from Hua Mark and Wang Thonglang police stations came to receive their petition on the case and protesters were seeing them off, a fistfight between two men and a group of the protesters began. Protest leaders and police tried to break them up.

While inbound Ramkhamhaeng Soi 61 had been already blocked, police later set up barricades to separate the two groups

-- The Nation 2013-12-01

[Prbkk]

I think it is a good idea for all you arm chair Falange keep out of it, you do not understand. Leave it to the Thai people it is their country.

This might be part of the problem

It is "farang", maybe with a better education system and being able to read and write people on all sides of the color war would be able to make knowledgeable and informed decisions ....

Until then .... same same different different day day

I think he/she may have used " falange" in the original Spanish meaning rather than intending "farang". If so, it's more alarming than just a spelling mistake!

[Bagwan]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

And the people who voted for them would also get on a plane to somewhere else?

I like posts with simple solutions. If they are truly simple. More often than not though, they're not.

. The losers will go away and sulk for a while and IF their lot in life improves they will accept the new status quo - and probably vote for more of it in the future. Cut off any communication from the convicted crook, and the money supply, and they'll be as good as gold.

Most simple solutions are the product of simple minds.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Sheryl
insult removed by Moderator

[kingalfred]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

.winning elections and then doing what ever you want aint democracy .Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited December 1, 2013 by Sheryl
personal insults removed by Moderator

[AlphMichaels]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

"The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so."

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin, but the problem with it was that it included Thaksin. If it hadn't included Thaksin, it may well have passed, and Thailand wouldn't be where it is now.

edit: btw. Thailand is comprised of 65 million people.

Yep..., typo on population..., apologies. Tho my error does make the political and socio-economic divide that much (substantially) greater in context.

Regarding Thaksin's inclusion in the amnesty bill, acknowledged. But if you're going to grant amnesty to some and not to others, then it's not a well weighted decision and likely should have never been brought to the floor. And therein lies the rub..., what has brought about this divisive set of circumstances. HOWEVER, had the bill passed, it is because a process of law was undertaken and MPs voted in by their constituents, irrespective of their knowledge of political machinery (same in the western world..., most don't have a clue), MAY have voted it in the affirmative. Indeed, had it passed then Abhisit might be taking up residence in Thaksin's neighborhood in Dubai.

And for the record, I like Abhisit.

To close out my thoughts on all this, it's politics as usual (not just in Thailand but throughout the world) and the only losers are the people. I loathe it at every level and pray for the safety of all involved.

Edited December 1, 2013 by AlphMichaels

[brit1984]

Wouldn't a unelected "Peoples Council" be the same as a dictatorship. Something similar to this happened in Germany by a man with a mustache.

if you mean hitler, i think he was elected democratically

[JRSoul]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

Pardon me, but this sounds like your promoting the assassination of former Prime Minister Thaksin. You sir, and I use the word "sir" with total disgust to you, should be arrested for solicitation of murder.

Or pest eradication without a licence.

[duidui45]

"The moore i learn about the human race,the moore i love my dog".

God bless the Thai people..