Suthep's panel cannot resolve current conflict, academics say

[Baerboxer]

Jayboy

"Actually the past of Suthep has not been much discussed on the forum.Perhaps his present is a distraction.In any event it is always easier to return to the subject of Thaksin - as you have done."

There are considerable threads and discussions on TV referencing Suthep and his past over the last few weeks. All easily found. But of course, whether that constitutes much or not is subjective.

For the second time. I was responding to a poster who wanted to posit that Thaksin was really innocent and would be the best leader for Thailand. Interesting how you seem to think the post supporting Thaksin is on topic whilst one offering the opposite view is off topic. Easier to dismiss facts as off topic isn't it.

[jayboy]

Jayboy

"Actually the past of Suthep has not been much discussed on the forum.Perhaps his present is a distraction.In any event it is always easier to return to the subject of Thaksin - as you have done."

There are considerable threads and discussions on TV referencing Suthep and his past over the last few weeks. All easily found. But of course, whether that constitutes much or not is subjective.

For the second time. I was responding to a poster who wanted to posit that Thaksin was really innocent and would be the best leader for Thailand. Interesting how you seem to think the post supporting Thaksin is on topic whilst one offering the opposite view is off topic. Easier to dismiss facts as off topic isn't it.

As already pointed out this thread isn't about Thaksin.As already pointed out his crimes and failings are well known.Whatever you say there hasn't been that much focus on Suthep's background.In contrast there are some who will find it appropriate to drag in Thaksin even if the subject is how to deal with soi dogs.None of this really matters even if slightly comic.But it does highlight a certain myopic mindset that attributes all Thailand's problems to a single man (some of them obviously are). As to Suthep (and as at 18.00 Sunday the saga has yet to be played out) it does seem rather odd that the "educate" folks on the streets accept as their champion someone corrupt, so dishonest, so caught up in dirty politics and by some accounts so stained with blood.

[goldmonky]

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

[Baerboxer]

Jayboy

"Actually the past of Suthep has not been much discussed on the forum.Perhaps his present is a distraction.In any event it is always easier to return to the subject of Thaksin - as you have done."

There are considerable threads and discussions on TV referencing Suthep and his past over the last few weeks. All easily found. But of course, whether that constitutes much or not is subjective.

For the second time. I was responding to a poster who wanted to posit that Thaksin was really innocent and would be the best leader for Thailand. Interesting how you seem to think the post supporting Thaksin is on topic whilst one offering the opposite view is off topic. Easier to dismiss facts as off topic isn't it.

As already pointed out this thread isn't about Thaksin.As already pointed out his crimes and failings are well known.Whatever you say there hasn't been that much focus on Suthep's background.In contrast there are some who will find it appropriate to drag in Thaksin even if the subject is how to deal with soi dogs.None of this really matters even if slightly comic.But it does highlight a certain myopic mindset that attributes all Thailand's problems to a single man (some of them obviously are). As to Suthep (and as at 18.00 Sunday the saga has yet to be played out) it does seem rather odd that the "educate" folks on the streets accept as their champion someone corrupt, so dishonest, so caught up in dirty politics and by some accounts so stained with blood.

Indeed. It does seem some posters are fixated with defending Thaksin and attacking his opponents whatever the topic or however the discussion progresses and meanders. In the same way it is indeed odd that so many people from all walks of life, strata of society and different backgrounds came out to protest against a bill that would have allowed so many to whitewash their crimes. I'm sure many protesters don't have any illusions about Suthep. But maybe they, rightly or wrongly consider Suthep the lesser of two evils? Sad the choice isn't about the higher of two excellent non corrupt brilliant leaders, but that's politics for you.

Could you just remind us, exactly what crimes has Suthep been convicted of ?

[tingtongteesood]

The crime which Thaksin has been convicted for in Thailand , is not recognised in Westminster England , it is unique to Thailand .
In other countries a woman can legitimately purchase land as Mrs Shinawatra did , without her husband having to sign a consent .
Only the fact that Thaksin was Prime Minister or member of the government made it a crime in Thailand, but not anywhere else .

So basically you are saying that he did nothing wrong ? Each country has different laws and the people of that country should know the laws and abide by them whether they like it or not. He knew it was a crime when he did it and thought he could get away with it because of who he was. Your idol is a criminal according to the laws of his country and that is all that counts. Deal with it....

[brit1984]

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

just to help your understanding about politics, democratic governments come about via elections

[brit1984]

where is abhisit? why is he letting this stupid nutcase run the show?

[Thai at Heart]

The only way for the current conflict to be resolved is for the Ruling Elite to accept that Thaksin let the democratic genie out of the bag. Sure the voters will accept 500 Baht (I understand the going rate is now 1,000B) in bribes: they are poor and can't afford not to, but it will no longer affect the way they vote. The masses now understand its a secret ballot (given the circumstances, its remarkable how little malfeasance of the electoral bureaucracy is ever alleged). From the point of view of the ruling elite, Thaksin is a pretty good bet - he is no socialist, unlike Jutaporn. He is just the same as the elite- a rich Thai/Chinese who got his money corruptly. The irony is that if Thaksin doesn't return, Thailand may be in for a period of Chavez/Castro/Gaddafy style 'socialism' Now that really would scare the ruling elite.

Not a bad summary. Choices - Suthep and the old elite reactionaries, Thaksin and his family dynasty or some new communist style "socialism".

What a choice!

Neither are particularly appealing. I will go with whichever one is likely to reduce corruption and has a chance at increased democracy some time in the future.

If yingluck stays in, thailand will have a very traumatic 5 years.

[CWMcMurray]

He is asking for the impossible ...

Let's forget about what a bad idea and a step backward a non elected council to rule Thailand would be....

How could it even happen? It would mean the constitution would need to be thrown in the trash and a new constitution drafted and approved and implemented...

In the next 2 days?????

The current gov tried to change some minor clauses of constitution and were slapped down by the courts, how they make such large and sweeping changes, even if they wanted to?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[jayboy]

Jayboy

"Actually the past of Suthep has not been much discussed on the forum.Perhaps his present is a distraction.In any event it is always easier to return to the subject of Thaksin - as you have done."

There are considerable threads and discussions on TV referencing Suthep and his past over the last few weeks. All easily found. But of course, whether that constitutes much or not is subjective.

For the second time. I was responding to a poster who wanted to posit that Thaksin was really innocent and would be the best leader for Thailand. Interesting how you seem to think the post supporting Thaksin is on topic whilst one offering the opposite view is off topic. Easier to dismiss facts as off topic isn't it.

As already pointed out this thread isn't about Thaksin.As already pointed out his crimes and failings are well known.Whatever you say there hasn't been that much focus on Suthep's background.In contrast there are some who will find it appropriate to drag in Thaksin even if the subject is how to deal with soi dogs.None of this really matters even if slightly comic.But it does highlight a certain myopic mindset that attributes all Thailand's problems to a single man (some of them obviously are). As to Suthep (and as at 18.00 Sunday the saga has yet to be played out) it does seem rather odd that the "educate" folks on the streets accept as their champion someone corrupt, so dishonest, so caught up in dirty politics and by some accounts so stained with blood.

Indeed. It does seem some posters are fixated with defending Thaksin and attacking his opponents whatever the topic or however the discussion progresses and meanders. In the same way it is indeed odd that so many people from all walks of life, strata of society and different backgrounds came out to protest against a bill that would have allowed so many to whitewash their crimes. I'm sure many protesters don't have any illusions about Suthep. But maybe they, rightly or wrongly consider Suthep the lesser of two evils? Sad the choice isn't about the higher of two excellent non corrupt brilliant leaders, but that's politics for you.

Could you just remind us, exactly what crimes has Suthep been convicted of ?

You need to focus on reality.The foolish and ill advised amnesty (which most Thais disliked) was withdrawn.The current protests are not primarily about that.Even an early dissolution doesn't satisfy Suthep.He is against democracy itself because he knows his side could have huge difficulties in winning an election.The mobs on the streets do not represent all walks of life.Key groups are the Sino Thai middle class, Southerners and vocational students.I note "what crimes has he been convicted of?" you are still trying to defend Suthep.Good luck with that.

[Biscuit22]

Chainarong

The crime which Thaksin has been convicted for in Thailand , is not recognised in Westminster England , it is unique to Thailand .

In other countries a woman can legitimately purchase land as Mrs Shinawatra did , without her husband having to sign a consent .

Only the fact that Thaksin was Prime Minister or member of the government made it a crime in Thailand, but not anywhere else .

This anti Thaksin campaign at the behest of Elite , Middle Class , Democrats is effectively " Cutting Off The Nose To Spite The Face ".

For all his faults , and who in Thailand is without fault in similar measure , Thaksin still remains the strongest and best man to lead Thailand .

The Coup was a terrible error of judgement , that Thailand may have to suffer the consequences of for years to come .

Rubbish....

Thailand is already suffering the consequences of Thaksin rule long after his flleeing of CRIMINAL charges.

Thaksin still has many charges of corruption pending. You can try to fudge around legalities, but the land deal is illegal in Thailand, stop calling on the UK law to validate your opinion. This is Thailand.

[englishoak]

Can anyone here even come up with an example of a competent and decent government here in the past 30 years or really honestly think itll be any better whoever runs the place in the next one ? nope nor can I.

[MichelM]

Chainarong

The crime which Thaksin has been convicted for in Thailand , is not recognised in Westminster England , it is unique to Thailand .

In other countries a woman can legitimately purchase land as Mrs Shinawatra did , without her husband having to sign a consent .

Only the fact that Thaksin was Prime Minister or member of the government made it a crime in Thailand, but not anywhere else .

This anti Thaksin campaign at the behest of Elite , Middle Class , Democrats is effectively " Cutting Off The Nose To Spite The Face ".

For all his faults , and who in Thailand is without fault in similar measure , Thaksin still remains the strongest and best man to lead Thailand .

The Coup was a terrible error of judgement , that Thailand may have to suffer the consequences of for years to come .

You are joking? Research the circumstances regarding how the land was seized and purchased. Check up on laws changed to facilitate tax avoidance. Check out the other more serious outstanding criminal charges the fugitive is anxious not to face.

The elite HiSo's clearly don't want a change from their years of raking in massive wealth and fortunes at the expense of the poor. The want to retain the system that allows them to acquire huge wealth and also act above the law in any capacity including murder as we've seen repeatedly.

All Thaksin wants is to replace these families with his own. Period. Through a few crumbs to the poor while his family enrich themselves, put themselves above the law and implement a police state dynasty. Strong - sure if you equate no morals, ethics or conscious to strength - like Mugabe, Hun Set, Mao, Castro etc. Best man - not in a million years.

Give us a break.Thaksin's errors are well documented but the thread is about Suthep's panel.Suthep's murky and corrupt past is well set out in David Eimer's piece in the South China Morning Post.

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1369801/thai-protest-leader-suthep-son-elite-axe-grind

OK, Suthep is not white... But if not him ---- WHO???

[edwinchester]

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to an unelected committee personally appointed by Suthep and his cronies.

[Biscuit22]

Can anyone here even come up with an example of a competent and decent government here in the past 30 years or really honestly think itll be any better whoever runs the place in the next one ? nope nor can I.

The first government to be elected in a totally non-corrupt election with no trough waiting for them at the end.

Hundreds of politicians will lose interest in politics once there is nothing in it for them, or they have to work and fight hard for every vote. They will walk away in their droves leaving only the people who have Thailand and its people at heart.

[Biscuit22]

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to an unelected committee personally appointed by Suthep and his cronies.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to

Huge vote buying,

Rigged senate ballots,

Suspension of entire parties from a debate,

Attempting to force an amnesty against the will of the entire nation (apart from a bunch of TVF farangs who love Thaksin enough to forgive 25,000+ cases of corruption and crimes against the state).

Changing parliamentary bills between readings,

Inserting a fake Prime Minister into office just to send a message that a vote for her is a vote for a convicted criminal.

Unconstitutionally attempting to change the appointing system of the upper house to have almost 100% control of parliament with no interference from any other party, even if the did get over eleven and a half million votes in the last election .... the list goes on and on.

Don't bother trying to use 'democracy' to base your opinion on if you choose to ignore 90% of the crimes against democracy that are coming from the other side.

[edwinchester]

 

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to an unelected committee personally appointed by Suthep and his cronies.

 

 

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to

 

Huge vote buying,

Rigged senate ballots,

Suspension of entire parties from a debate,

Attempting to force an amnesty against the will of the entire nation (apart from a bunch of TVF farangs who love Thaksin enough to forgive 25,000+ cases of corruption and crimes against the state).

Changing parliamentary bills between readings,

Inserting a fake Prime Minister into office just to send a message that a vote for her is a vote for a convicted criminal.

Unconstitutionally attempting to change the appointing system of the upper house to have almost 100% control of parliament with no interference from any other party, even if the did get over eleven and a half million votes in the last election .... the list goes on and on.

 

Don't bother trying to use 'democracy' to base your opinion on if you choose to ignore 90% of the crimes against democracy that are coming from the other side.

 

I dislike PT and what they are doing but do not see what good Suthep and his team of dictators will do for Thailand.

[englishoak]

Can anyone here even come up with an example of a competent and decent government here in the past 30 years or really honestly think itll be any better whoever runs the place in the next one ? nope nor can I.

The first government to be elected in a totally non-corrupt election with no trough waiting for them at the end.

Hundreds of politicians will lose interest in politics once there is nothing in it for them, or they have to work and fight hard for every vote. They will walk away in their droves leaving only the people who have Thailand and its people at heart.

It's a nice dream but unfortunately elections nearly everywhere are won by those who spend the most on their campaign. One thing they can do though is start to actually enforce the laws and jail people that have sentences and arrest those with warrants out rather than letting them walk about creating more problems, then maybe just maybe the message will be understood that there is one law for all and not dependant on how deep the pockets are or what friends they have.

Respect for the rule of law only comes if it is enforced no matter how high or low the person charged. Thailand i hate to say is a long long way from that at the moment.

[Biscuit22]

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to an unelected committee personally appointed by Suthep and his cronies.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to

Huge vote buying,

Rigged senate ballots,

Suspension of entire parties from a debate,

Attempting to force an amnesty against the will of the entire nation (apart from a bunch of TVF farangs who love Thaksin enough to forgive 25,000+ cases of corruption and crimes against the state).

Changing parliamentary bills between readings,

Inserting a fake Prime Minister into office just to send a message that a vote for her is a vote for a convicted criminal.

Unconstitutionally attempting to change the appointing system of the upper house to have almost 100% control of parliament with no interference from any other party, even if the did get over eleven and a half million votes in the last election .... the list goes on and on.

Don't bother trying to use 'democracy' to base your opinion on if you choose to ignore 90% of the crimes against democracy that are coming from the other side.

I dislike PT and what they are doing but do not see what good Suthep and his team of dictators will do for Thailand.

It won't pan out like that in the end and Suthep knows it.

He is not stupid, he is playing the old tactic... if you want to borrow $3000 from the bank, ask them for $6000 and you may get what you really wanted.

He wants to eradicate Thaksin and his regime and then overhaul the system to make it totally democratic and eradicate corruption and election fixing.

He will demand a lot more (which he is) Because he knows that he has plenty of margin at the negotiating table where everything will eventually be decided.

Once there is an offer to dissolve parliament and an agreement to overhaul the system to make it so, he will almost certainly agree, because he will find it impossible to maintain support from the protesters should he reject it. He is also clever enough to know all this too. It is all a game of chess, and he is a good player.

The only problem he really has, is that Thaksin knows that when this happens, he and the PTP are going to find it very hard to find their way back into power. Which is the main reason they are digging their heels in hard.

Watch this space.

[englishoak]

He wants to eradicate Thaksin and his regime and then overhaul the system to make it totally democratic and eradicate corruption and election fixing.

And that is the funniest thing ive read here today

Actually come to think of it its scary if you really believe that, Suthep is about as straight as a spring, By all means wish for a better system but dont for a second think itll be this clown that fixes things please.

[NCFC]

I am just a normal person that does`t know a great deal about politics.I read the news and try to be open minded ,but the way I see the current situation is that the present government has with the help of the red army of puppets aided by brother T.S.have organised this chaos .My heart goes out to thailand and the anti gov.protesters.I prey to god that they find a sollution soon and bring peace to Thailand whith a true democratic government.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to an unelected committee personally appointed by Suthep and his cronies.

If you look up democracy in the dictionary I doubt you will find any reference to

Huge vote buying,

Rigged senate ballots,

Suspension of entire parties from a debate,

Attempting to force an amnesty against the will of the entire nation (apart from a bunch of TVF farangs who love Thaksin enough to forgive 25,000+ cases of corruption and crimes against the state).

Changing parliamentary bills between readings,

Inserting a fake Prime Minister into office just to send a message that a vote for her is a vote for a convicted criminal.

Unconstitutionally attempting to change the appointing system of the upper house to have almost 100% control of parliament with no interference from any other party, even if the did get over eleven and a half million votes in the last election .... the list goes on and on.

Don't bother trying to use 'democracy' to base your opinion on if you choose to ignore 90% of the crimes against democracy that are coming from the other side.

I dislike PT and what they are doing but do not see what good Suthep and his team of dictators will do for Thailand.

It won't pan out like that in the end and Suthep knows it.

He is not stupid, he is playing the old tactic... if you want to borrow $3000 from the bank, ask them for $6000 and you may get what you really wanted.

He wants to eradicate Thaksin and his regime and then overhaul the system to make it totally democratic and eradicate corruption and election fixing.

He will demand a lot more (which he is) Because he knows that he has plenty of margin at the negotiating table where everything will eventually be decided.

Once there is an offer to dissolve parliament and an agreement to overhaul the system to make it so, he will almost certainly agree, because he will find it impossible to maintain support from the protesters should he reject it. He is also clever enough to know all this too. It is all a game of chess, and he is a good player.

The only problem he really has, is that Thaksin knows that when this happens, he and the PTP are going to find it very hard to find their way back into power. Which is the main reason they are digging their heels in hard.

Watch this space.

Suthep certainly does not want to make the system more democratic. He has stated he wants to replace the parliamentary system and the courts with a 'people's parliament' and 'people's court' which has a North Korean sound to it. Suthep has been rejected at the ballot box every time and he knows he cannot win an election. These protests are designed to get ultra nationalists into power via a military coup.