I've Got a Degree in Rocket Science!

[Madgee]

This post might rattle a few cages but it’s not done intentionally or with animosity.

Why is the teaching fraternity in LOS so dedicated to the ‘I’ve got a degree in rocket science’ so I’m a good teacher?

So many guys knock the ability of an older native speaker who has worldly experience; someone who can adequately convey the English language across to students without the need for theoretic or grammatically correct phrases which are seldom used in any language when speaking.

I can fully understand the HR dept. of any school or institution requiring a foreign teacher to submit information but the stipulation of most is the applicant must have a BA degree and fully disregard anyone who can prove they have experience of teaching / advising students who wish to learn the English language.

Ok, I’m having a little rant here but after applying for a couple of vacant positions in my vicinity, all advertised by foreign ‘head teachers’, I’m really surprised I haven’t had even a thanks but no thanks. Before anyone jumps down my throat about they cannot reply to every applicant because they receive so many, I checked up and the most they had were six. Even if I was deemed unsuitable, a reply is surely the respectable or polite thing to do and the reason why?

Only today I read a post on TV advising a guy to get some ‘starting’ experience teaching in China, I would second that because it will pay better, give him better benefits and probably he will find the experience very satisfying, Chinese students actually want to learn. Only downspin is the Chinese way of life and culture ……. But that is just my opinion after five years living and working there. The teachers I’ve talked to in LOS seem to think teaching in China is the ‘lowest of the low’; all I will say is try it first and then way up the pros and cons.

Rant over.

[SlyAnimal]

In order to legally work, you need a work permit, to get a work permit you should have a teacher's licence waiver, but to get a waiver, you need a bachelor's degree.

Most people realise that a native English speaker without a degree is often just as capable as a native English speaker with a degree. But for a teacher to legally work at a school, they generally need a bachelor's degree.

We then say that the bachelor degree requirement is stupid.

But actually the change which they made, so that farang require a degree in order to receive a teacher's licence waiver, means that we are on completely even terms with Thai teachers. We often gripe about how Thailand makes it so difficult for farang compared to Thai people, and that we should be treated the same as them....in this situation we pretty much are

I do still think they should modify the rule, as there aren't enough qualified farang teachers in Thailand to satisfy the demand. Even if they just modified the rule for areas where it's difficult for schools to find farang teachers. But in saying that, in the areas where it is difficult to find farang teachers, schools often don't worry about whether a teacher is legally able to work or not, because they know the government doesn't usually check for work permits at countryside schools. In general this is how a lot of Thailand works, they make laws but only selectively enforce them.

As some constructive advice though, universities and language schools don't require teachers licences, thus you can obtain a work permit there without a degree.

[masuk]

How I heartily agree!

I've spoken, read, studied and taught in English for a great many years. My training before heading off to University and doing TEFLA training was in a technical area which involved a good few years of on the job training plus study overseas.

However, I do not hold a degree in rocket science or bee keeping, and therefore 'not acceptable' to Thai authorities as being fit or able to teach even basic English.

Heaven knows, this country needs a lot of people who can speak basic English, and that includes a lot of the Thai English teachers I've come across.

Sadly, the situation now in Thailand is that you cannot even volunteer to have English discussions in a temple, or amongst a group of people in one's village. The rationale is that we're doing some Thai person out of a job!

Regretably, the country will not improve its English standards the way it's going, and little wonder that Thailand is one of the lowest scorers in ASEAN countries in English ability.

[FiftyTwo]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

[pastafarian]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

And fully qualified teachers will work at a government school teaching 50 kids in a class for 25-40,000 baht a month? Never in a million years!

[FiftyTwo]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

And fully qualified teachers will work at a government school teaching 50 kids in a class for 25-40,000 baht a month? Never in a million years!

I would, and I have 10 years teaching experience in UK comprehensive schools.

[sirchai]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

They should be qualified to deal with an ordinary four hour day.

[pastafarian]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

 

And fully qualified teachers will work at a government school teaching 50 kids in a class for 25-40,000 baht a month? Never in a million years!

I would, and I have 10 years teaching experience in UK comprehensive schools.

Well you are an exception! Most PGCE qualified teachers I've met are interested in International school jobs only with salaries upwards of 80k per month and I totally understand why. A decent salary with small class sizes and a professionally run school, why would you even consider less than half that salary to teach large classes of unruly kids in a school run by amateurs?!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Baerboxer]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

Spot on !

Why should Thailand employ people to teach English who do not have the appropriate qualifications and/or experience.

The days of the back packer, early retiree or long term "holiday maker" earning some extra money by teaching are hopefully (and thankfully) long gone.

Many people think because they are a native English speaker, or have done some training or managing of some kind in the past that they can suddenly teach a complex subject without any experience whatsoever.

Teaching is a profession, requiring knowledge and skill; and an understanding of the subject being taught.

Economics should not dictate a lowering of standards. Teachers are very underpaid in many countries. The country with the best schools and pupil education is Finland - where teaching is recognized as a key profession and remunerated accordingly. New Finnish teachers also undergo a lengthy period of probation, with in class assessors and feedback sessions.

[Eddy B]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

Spot on !

Why should Thailand employ people to teach English who do not have the appropriate qualifications and/or experience.

The days of the back packer, early retiree or long term "holiday maker" earning some extra money by teaching are hopefully (and thankfully) long gone.

Many people think because they are a native English speaker, or have done some training or managing of some kind in the past that they can suddenly teach a complex subject without any experience whatsoever.

Teaching is a profession, requiring knowledge and skill; and an understanding of the subject being taught.

Economics should not dictate a lowering of standards. Teachers are very underpaid in many countries. The country with the best schools and pupil education is Finland - where teaching is recognized as a key profession and remunerated accordingly. New Finnish teachers also undergo a lengthy period of probation, with in class assessors and feedback sessions.

I think you should take your head out of your arse and not compare Finland...........who gives a crap about Finland?? This is Thailand who has <deleted> English ability and concentrate on the matter at hand. Thailand's education system is old and needs revamping. Why not let NES people here who want to work get a job? The pay is low anyway and has gone down, not up since inflation even for the degree holders. I am from Spain but I have a degree in knitting..........so I am better than the guy from USA without a degree but used English all his life???

[teacherofwoe]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

My friend has taught in at least four government schools over the last ten years without a degree. He has always had a license waiver and a work permit for each school. As for teachers being qualified to teach in their home country, I'm afraid that Thai schools simply do not pay enough.

[SlyAnimal]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

Spot on !

Why should Thailand employ people to teach English who do not have the appropriate qualifications and/or experience.

The days of the back packer, early retiree or long term "holiday maker" earning some extra money by teaching are hopefully (and thankfully) long gone.

Many people think because they are a native English speaker, or have done some training or managing of some kind in the past that they can suddenly teach a complex subject without any experience whatsoever.

Teaching is a profession, requiring knowledge and skill; and an understanding of the subject being taught.

Economics should not dictate a lowering of standards. Teachers are very underpaid in many countries. The country with the best schools and pupil education is Finland - where teaching is recognized as a key profession and remunerated accordingly. New Finnish teachers also undergo a lengthy period of probation, with in class assessors and feedback sessions.

Let's think about this logically....

Thai teachers require a bachelor's degree, in any subject, in order to receive a provisional teacher's licence (To give them time to obtain their full Thai teacher's licence). This is the same as what foreign teacher's currently do.

Therefore, why would there be any justification for a foreign teacher to have a teaching licence from their home country in order to teach?

If a bachelor degree is enough to provide you with a provisional teacher's licence, I would assume that the reasoning for this is that you are an expert in a field of study, and so all you need to learn is how to effectively impart your knowledge to students. This seems practical, as to obtain your full teacher's licence, you need to pass exams related to teaching (And for foreigners a course on Thai culture).

On that basis, as native English speakers, we have a better command of the English language than Thai teachers with bachelor degrees in English. Thus we are essentially experts in the subject which we are teaching, and provided that our status as a native English speaker can be verified, it would make sense for all NES to also be granted a provisional teacher's licence (After which they have 2 years to work towards their full Thai teacher's licence).

The only assumption which I'm making, is that bachelor degree holders are granted provisional teaching licences based on them being an expert in their subject area. If they're granted the temporary teacher's licence on the basis that they're good role models for students (As they have pursued higher education), then that would justify the current system. However neither assumption would justify what you're proposing (That foreign teachers should have a teacher's licence from their home country).

[aussiestyle1983]

One thing I miss about working in Thailand - the jealousy, hypocrisy and just plain stupidness of some. In particular, the way degreed non-native English speakers treat non-degreed native English speakers (at least where I worked as for months I was the only Western and native English speaking teacher working with 20 non-native English speakers).

Regarding Jealousy. They did not like me because I got paid more and was less qualified. News flash... This is Thailand. I am nto Thai. I do not make the rules. I also think that the pay scales are not fare but it is not my doing. Rather than blaming somebody who is as powerless as yourself, take it up with the people who make the rules.

Regarding hypocrisy. They say farangs only come to work in Thailand for money when the money is nothing. They say this, and then every pay day the first thing they do is pile into a van and head straight to the closest Western Union to send MONEY overseas. MONEY. Why are you here then?

Regarding stupidness (and where this becomes relevant to the OP). They say farangs are not qualified to teach because we don't have degrees yet we hold a WP and TL. Somehow, they think that a non-native English speaker with a degree in IT, nursing, business, law etc. is more qualified than a native English speaker with a TEFL and no degree. Obviously the MOE does not think like that.

So no, the whole degree v. non-degree debate is BS. You do not need a degree in anything to be a good teacher. There a plenty of non-degreed teachers with students who are more capable and produce better grades than teachers with degrees in non-related fields such as engineering or plastic surgery. But this debate will always exist and there will always be jealousy, hypocrisy and stupidness shown as long as things regarding qualifications and pay scales remain they way they are. If non-native English speakers with degrees who get paid half of your salary have a go at you just remind them that you too are a visitor in Thailand and you do not make the rules. Tell them to take in up with management or the government and see how far they get.

Edited December 3, 2013 by aussiestyle1983

[mogo51]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

And fully qualified teachers will work at a government school teaching 50 kids in a class for 25-40,000 baht a month? Never in a million years!

Western teachers have nothing to complain about regarding pay levels, compared to Filipino teachers. They have degrees, often dual degrees and masters and can't get 20k a month. They are far more qualified than the 6 week wonders from western countries that come to Thailand and think they can learn to be a teacher in that short time - not likely.

Edited December 3, 2013 by SlyAnimal
Fixed quote

[FiftyTwo]

Well you are an exception! Most PGCE qualified teachers I've met are interested in International school jobs only with salaries upwards of 80k per month and I totally understand why. A decent salary with small class sizes and a professionally run school, why would you even consider less than half that salary to teach large classes of unruly kids in a school run by amateurs?!

You've never been in an International school then?

As for the teaching, it's a vocation, not about the money.

If all you care about is the money, you shouldn't be in the teaching profession.

[FiftyTwo]

So no, the whole degree v. non-degree debate is BS. You do not need a degree in anything to be a good teacher. There a plenty of non-degreed teachers with students who are more capable and produce better grades than teachers with degrees in non-related fields such as engineering or plastic surgery. But this debate will always exist and there will always be jealousy, hypocrisy and stupidness shown as long as things regarding qualifications and pay scales remain they way they are. If non-native English speakers with degrees who get paid half of your salary have a go at you just remind them that you too are a visitor in Thailand and you do not make the rules. Tell them to take in up with management or the government and see how far they get.

Is 'stupidness' even a word?

[Baerboxer]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

Spot on !

Why should Thailand employ people to teach English who do not have the appropriate qualifications and/or experience.

The days of the back packer, early retiree or long term "holiday maker" earning some extra money by teaching are hopefully (and thankfully) long gone.

Many people think because they are a native English speaker, or have done some training or managing of some kind in the past that they can suddenly teach a complex subject without any experience whatsoever.

Teaching is a profession, requiring knowledge and skill; and an understanding of the subject being taught.

Economics should not dictate a lowering of standards. Teachers are very underpaid in many countries. The country with the best schools and pupil education is Finland - where teaching is recognized as a key profession and remunerated accordingly. New Finnish teachers also undergo a lengthy period of probation, with in class assessors and feedback sessions.

I think you should take your head out of your arse and not compare Finland...........who gives a crap about Finland?? This is Thailand who has <deleted> English ability and concentrate on the matter at hand. Thailand's education system is old and needs revamping. Why not let NES people here who want to work get a job? The pay is low anyway and has gone down, not up since inflation even for the degree holders. I am from Spain but I have a degree in knitting..........so I am better than the guy from USA without a degree but used English all his life???

Maybe you should learn to write without being rude and maybe wake up to the fact that the world is now a global market place. Thailand would be better bench marking itself against the best systems - like Finland and Korea rather than accepting the dregs from other countries, who have no relevant qualifications or experience but are willing to "accept" the low pay for a bit of pocket money or as a means of getting visa extensions.

Given the intelligence of your post, I'm surprised you even managed a degree in knitting, but well done for perseverance.

Only an idiot would suggest that teaching ability is purely dependent on nationality. I know some great American teachers who work in Thailand - teaching maths, sciences and English. That doesn't mean every American is qualified to teach those subjects. I know many native English speakers who are high achievers in their chosen careers, but I know they would not be able to teach English anymore than you would.

[bundoi]

agreed that a degree does not necessarily mean you are a good teacher, but it does show that you have attained the level of education that is necessary for (most) professional-level jobs

being a native English speaker does not make you a subject matter expert in English...a teacher needs to be able to explain his or her subject... for example I have been a car driver for thirty years, but I know nothing about how cars work (and have no interest in knowing)

by changing the regulations a couple of years ago the MoE has successfully filtered out many foreign "teachers" who were not interested in teaching at all; it was simply the easiest way for them to delay going home

all-in-all though some good foreign teachers (ie the unqualified ones) have lost out as a result of the changes to the MoE's regulations, the standard of foreign teachers has risen, and that must be good for the students

also, though some of the unqualified "teachers" may have been good, the majority fuelled the negative stereotypes that so many Thais justifiably have of farangs, thus making the work of the qualified teachers even more difficult

the idea that a 4 week TEFL can be compared to a 3-5 year degree is laughable

[Dr Robert]

Time to take a chill pill kids. Because you have a degree doesnt make you a competent teacher. Teaching is a profession requiring four years of training and a number of years as a practitioner to master it.

Imagine using the same logic here that anyone who can speak the language can teach it and apply it to medicine. Because I am a human being I should be able to practise medicine without any training because I know how to get sick.

Gimme a break you arrogant wannabes and give some respect to professional well trained educators.

[aussiestyle1983]

So no, the whole degree v. non-degree debate is BS. You do not need a degree in anything to be a good teacher. There a plenty of non-degreed teachers with students who are more capable and produce better grades than teachers with degrees in non-related fields such as engineering or plastic surgery. But this debate will always exist and there will always be jealousy, hypocrisy and stupidness shown as long as things regarding qualifications and pay scales remain they way they are. If non-native English speakers with degrees who get paid half of your salary have a go at you just remind them that you too are a visitor in Thailand and you do not make the rules. Tell them to take in up with management or the government and see how far they get.

Is 'stupidness' even a word?

Google it

[Dr Robert]

So no, the whole degree v. non-degree debate is BS. You do not need a degree in anything to be a good teacher. There a plenty of non-degreed teachers with students who are more capable and produce better grades than teachers with degrees in non-related fields such as engineering or plastic surgery. But this debate will always exist and there will always be jealousy, hypocrisy and stupidness shown as long as things regarding qualifications and pay scales remain they way they are. If non-native English speakers with degrees who get paid half of your salary have a go at you just remind them that you too are a visitor in Thailand and you do not make the rules. Tell them to take in up with management or the government and see how far they get.

Is 'stupidness' even a word?

This is rather humerous, albeit a bit sad. It is opinion not fact. You offer no credible evidence for your assertions. Pay scales reflect training and skills to a certain extent. The logic linking non-native English speakers with teaching and being a visitor in Thailand escapes me-it does however illustrate non-sequitur very nicely. On a positive note you have illustrated you "stupidness" with aplomb. Well done!

[Baerboxer]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

Spot on !

Why should Thailand employ people to teach English who do not have the appropriate qualifications and/or experience.

The days of the back packer, early retiree or long term "holiday maker" earning some extra money by teaching are hopefully (and thankfully) long gone.

Many people think because they are a native English speaker, or have done some training or managing of some kind in the past that they can suddenly teach a complex subject without any experience whatsoever.

Teaching is a profession, requiring knowledge and skill; and an understanding of the subject being taught.

Economics should not dictate a lowering of standards. Teachers are very underpaid in many countries. The country with the best schools and pupil education is Finland - where teaching is recognized as a key profession and remunerated accordingly. New Finnish teachers also undergo a lengthy period of probation, with in class assessors and feedback sessions.

Let's think about this logically....

Thai teachers require a bachelor's degree, in any subject, in order to receive a provisional teacher's licence (To give them time to obtain their full Thai teacher's licence). This is the same as what foreign teacher's currently do.

Therefore, why would there be any justification for a foreign teacher to have a teaching licence from their home country in order to teach?

If a bachelor degree is enough to provide you with a provisional teacher's licence, I would assume that the reasoning for this is that you are an expert in a field of study, and so all you need to learn is how to effectively impart your knowledge to students. This seems practical, as to obtain your full teacher's licence, you need to pass exams related to teaching (And for foreigners a course on Thai culture).

On that basis, as native English speakers, we have a better command of the English language than Thai teachers with bachelor degrees in English. Thus we are essentially experts in the subject which we are teaching, and provided that our status as a native English speaker can be verified, it would make sense for all NES to also be granted a provisional teacher's licence (After which they have 2 years to work towards their full Thai teacher's licence).

The only assumption which I'm making, is that bachelor degree holders are granted provisional teaching licences based on them being an expert in their subject area. If they're granted the temporary teacher's licence on the basis that they're good role models for students (As they have pursued higher education), then that would justify the current system. However neither assumption would justify what you're proposing (That foreign teachers should have a teacher's licence from their home country).

Disagree on 2 points. I read 52's comment as suggesting foreign teachers who teach in Thailand should be of the same standard that their own country would expect, including necessary qualifications. So if they don't meet the qualifications to teach at home, why should they be allowed to here?

You suggest native English speakers are all "essentially experts" in English and also capable of teaching it. Are you serious? Do you think any NES would be allowed to teach English in a U.K. school?

Try doing a little field research - go to Pattaya, Patong, Nana, Soi Cowboy, Pat Pong. You will find a large number of NES's there - Americans, Brits, Aussies, Canadians, Kiwis. Have a chat with a large sample, ask a few questions and see how many you would want to employ as teachers. To be fair, you can then do the same in the 5 star hotels so you get a good cross section of NES.

To suggest anyone who is a NES is "essentially a subject matter expert" is IMO a wide exaggeration at best. To suggest all are capable of teaching - mind boggling.

[SlyAnimal]

You're comparing two completely different subjects.

English, as a subject, in the UK/USA/Aus/NZ is completely different to English, as a subject, in Thailand.

Actually even the skills required to teach English in Thailand, are different to the skills that you'd use to teach English in the UK. Although a lot of the skills definitely cross over, much as they would for anyone who has previous experience with public speaking, training employees or as a manager/team leader.

[Baerboxer]

Time to take a chill pill kids. Because you have a degree doesnt make you a competent teacher. Teaching is a profession requiring four years of training and a number of years as a practitioner to master it.

Imagine using the same logic here that anyone who can speak the language can teach it and apply it to medicine. Because I am a human being I should be able to practise medicine without any training because I know how to get sick.

Gimme a break you arrogant wannabes and give some respect to professional well trained educators.

Excellent post sir!

Interesting isn't it, that the countries that make the investment in training and remunerating teachers, in line with other professionals like accountants, managers, engineers, dentists etc., are the same countries that score high on pupil ability and educational performance rankings.

My wife is a well qualified and very experienced teacher who has taught in a few countries and trained other teachers. She did not enter this profession to make massive bonuses (seemingly often dubiously) like the bankers or enrich herself like politicians. She, like most professional teachers I know, from many different countries, are driven by different motives.

[SlyAnimal]

Also as a point which many of you are missing...

There are a huge number of schools who would very much like to employ native English speaking teachers, however are legally unable to because:

1/ They are too expensive to hire

2/ The teacher's don't want to live in rural areas

By requiring that teachers have a bachelor degree in order to legally teach, it decreases the supply of available teachers. As the supply goes down, the price of the teachers, or their salary, goes up. As a result, the poorer schools can't afford native speakers, and because native speakers can essentially pick and choose the school they want to work for, the countryside schools usually miss out.

So the poor schools, and the countryside schools, which are often one and the same, are the ones who miss out on having native English speaking teachers. Instead they end up with a Thai teacher, who has a bachelor degree from Rajabhat xyz who teaches 80% in Thai, and when they do speak Englich, struggles to put a correct sentence together (This obviously doesn't apply to all countryside teachers, some have quite good English).

Instead, if teachers without bachelor degrees were allowed to legally teach in Thailand, the poorer countryside schools would have a better chance of getting NES teachers. The international schools would still employ NES with teaching licences from their home country, as they pay the most so can hire the best applicants, the better government schools can still employ NES teachers with bachelor degrees, as they can hire all of the teachers which the international schools don't pickup first, and then the poorer schools, who will offer smaller salaries and often not as "attractive" locations, will be able to pickup whatever is left over. But there will be more left over, as the supply will have been greater.

[Baerboxer]

You're comparing two completely different subjects.

English, as a subject, in the UK/USA/Aus/NZ is completely different to English, as a subject, in Thailand.

Actually even the skills required to teach English in Thailand, are different to the skills that you'd use to teach English in the UK. Although a lot of the skills definitely cross over, much as they would for anyone who has previous experience with public speaking, training employees or as a manager/team leader.

English is the same subject, it doesn't change. It needs to be taught differently to people who are/come from a non English speaking country. Yes indeed, which requires a deep subject knowledge, appropriate teaching skills, and the ability to explain the structure of one language in a way the people who think in a different language can really understand.

That would suggest that people with good teaching skills, knowledge of teaching a foreign language, and good subject knowledge would be desirable, would it not? Rather than anyone who happens to be a NES?

[Scott]

I expect that people use discretion in what they post or this thread will have a short shelf-life.

[kirk0233]

The disrespect for educators can be demonstrated by the endless postings with a similar theme. No one would suggest, for example, that I have built an fair number of things so why do I have to have a degree to be an engineer or I have treated myself for illnesses many times so why must I have a degree to be a physician? Education theories do seem to change regularly and this flexibility to admit mistakes and try something new suggests incompetence in the field to many critics. I would suggest that teaching is a profession to some and having any degree in order to teach in Thailand does not make one equal to Thai teachers who have a degree in education - it merely means the foreign teacher has a degree and probably knows nothing about the education process. The disdain shown the profession is apparent when posters spout off about "I've been speaking English my whole life I can be an English teacher." Have a little respect for those who consider being an educator a serious enough of an endeavor to warrant getting credentialed as a degreed educator in their home country. Being an English speaker does not make you an English teacher.

[SOTIRIOS]

What SA says, you aren't qualified to be legally employed as a teacher.

I don't think the restrictions go far enough,

I think,

Foreign teachers employed in Thai schools should be qualified to teach in their home countries.

Spot on !

Why should Thailand employ people to teach English who do not have the appropriate qualifications and/or experience.

The days of the back packer, early retiree or long term "holiday maker" earning some extra money by teaching are hopefully (and thankfully) long gone.

Many people think because they are a native English speaker, or have done some training or managing of some kind in the past that they can suddenly teach a complex subject without any experience whatsoever.

Teaching is a profession, requiring knowledge and skill; and an understanding of the subject being taught.

Economics should not dictate a lowering of standards. Teachers are very underpaid in many countries. The country with the best schools and pupil education is Finland - where teaching is recognized as a key profession and remunerated accordingly. New Finnish teachers also undergo a lengthy period of probation, with in class assessors and feedback sessions.

Let's think about this logically....

Thai teachers require a bachelor's degree, in any subject, in order to receive a provisional teacher's licence (To give them time to obtain their full Thai teacher's licence). This is the same as what foreign teacher's currently do.

Therefore, why would there be any justification for a foreign teacher to have a teaching licence from their home country in order to teach?

If a bachelor degree is enough to provide you with a provisional teacher's licence, I would assume that the reasoning for this is that you are an expert in a field of study, and so all you need to learn is how to effectively impart your knowledge to students. This seems practical, as to obtain your full teacher's licence, you need to pass exams related to teaching (And for foreigners a course on Thai culture).

On that basis, as native English speakers, we have a better command of the English language than Thai teachers with bachelor degrees in English. Thus we are essentially experts in the subject which we are teaching, and provided that our status as a native English speaker can be verified, it would make sense for all NES to also be granted a provisional teacher's licence (After which they have 2 years to work towards their full Thai teacher's licence).

The only assumption which I'm making, is that bachelor degree holders are granted provisional teaching licences based on them being an expert in their subject area. If they're granted the temporary teacher's licence on the basis that they're good role models for students (As they have pursued higher education), then that would justify the current system. However neither assumption would justify what you're proposing (That foreign teachers should have a teacher's licence from their home country).

...if you read the letter of the law it says otherwise...

...relevant experience...it used to be 3-4-5 years...at the school's discretion...

..there is a bitterness, resentment, jealousy...and it is out of control....and as many have said...the pay is therefore relatively low...as it has not risen in 10 years...

...I had a license...4 years...it should be permanent by now...to many people in charge think they will save money by sticking it to you...

...end result...no security...no self-esteem...and the petty ones can slander you and get rid of you any time.....

(...talk to so-called Master's graduates from Thailand and neighboring countries....you would be surprised that they even finished high school...)

..aside from some neighboring countries that have an organization that issues and backs fake Degrees...thus swamping the market....and lowering salaries for Native English Speakers again...

Edited December 3, 2013 by SOTIRIOS

[kuhske]

Thanks to SlyAnimal for his/her comment which I agree. This is the system here, so I fit myself in to get into any of those paying slots (technical school, international school, university, & company trainer). There are many places where a degree isn't required, so find one that honors whatever you have or are. Being antagonistic to fellow posters who shared their experiences won't change anything out there. I have been here for two decades, and I am still grateful to hear their perspectives as these pieces of advice will help me know what to be wary of.