Street clashes dead identified as 1 student, 3 redshirts

[webfact]

Street Clashes Dead Identified As 1 Student, 3 Redshirts
By Khaosod Online


Anti-government protester hitting a bus suspected of carrying pro-government protesters, 30 November 2013 (AFP)

BANGKOK: -- The victims who lost their lives during nighttime clashes between rival protesters in Ramkhamhaeng district of Bangkok have been identified as one student from Ramkhamhaeng University and three Redshirts protesters.

The clashes erupted when a group of anti-government protesters, mostly composed of Ramkhamhaeng students, approached the vicinity of Rajamangala Stadium, where thousands of pro-government Redshirts protesters were holding their rally.

The violence which involved beating rival protesters and vandalising public vehicles in the afternoon deteriorated into street battles as night fell. Explosions and gunfire echoed in the area throughout the night, which forced the Redshirts leadership to call off their rally in the morning, citing concerns for the safety of their protesters.

According to Prachatai, rescue workers at Erawan Centre said three individuals had been killed by the violence: Mr. Taweesak Bhodikaew, 21; Mr. Wisanu Paopu, 26; and Mr. Viroj Khemnark, 43.

Prachatai identified Mr. Taweesak as a student from Ramkhamhaeng University, while Mr. Wisanu and Mr. Viroj are described as Redshirts protesters.

Whether Mr. Taweesak was participating in the clashes with other anti-government students is not immediately clear. His father, Mr. Naramet Teerarangsikul, was quoted as saying that he did not want his son′s death to be used as political discourse or as a tool to discredit any particular side.

"I have been pressured to choose side, but I want to confirm that my son belonged to no side," Mr. Naramet reportedly said, adding that the matter is now under legal procedure and that he wished the country would return to peace in the near future.

Meanwhile, Ms. Thida Thavornseth, chairwoman of the Redshirts official leadership, told Prachatai that one more Redshirts protester had been killed. The victim had been identified as Private Thanasith Viengkam, 23. According to Ms. Thida, his funeral is now being held at Yang Temple, Soi Onnuj 23.

All victims died from gunshot wounds, the report says.

The deadly clashes at Ramkhamhaeng have been claimed by both anti-government and pro-government factions as proofs of brutality of the opposing side. Many in both factions also accuse the police of failing to intervene and put an end to the clashes in timely manner.

Source: http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNNE5UazVOakU1T1E9PQ==

-- KHAOSOD English 2013-12-03

[chooka]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

[whybother]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

[Emptyset]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

Pretty sure these red shirts were all killed during the first clashes in the evening from what I've read and seen pictures of. There were some claims made by anti-govt activists that there were deaths inside the university, but I've seen no official confirmation of that so far...

[whybother]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

Pretty sure these red shirts were all killed during the first clashes in the evening from what I've read and seen pictures of. There were some claims made by anti-govt activists that there were deaths inside the university, but I've seen no official confirmation of that so far...

The first killed (a student) was in the early evening IIRC. Red shirts were killed around 2am and 6am.

You said yourself that red shirts broke out of police cordons to confront students.

That said, with the university and the stadium next door to each other, the students would just need to step out the gate and they would be "approaching" the stadium.

[Tatsujin]

This was never going to end well. I'm surprised the casualties are as low as they so far are given the proclivity for mob rule and mindless violence exhibited here in the past in similar protests.

[Emptyset]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

Pretty sure these red shirts were all killed during the first clashes in the evening from what I've read and seen pictures of. There were some claims made by anti-govt activists that there were deaths inside the university, but I've seen no official confirmation of that so far...

The first killed (a student) was in the early evening IIRC. Red shirts were killed around 2am and 6am.

You said yourself that red shirts broke out of police cordons to confront students.

That said, with the university and the stadium next door to each other, the students would just need to step out the gate and they would be "approaching" the stadium.

Yes, sorry. I just meant that as far as I know all deaths took place on the street, not on the campus. But the details are still rather unclear. The first reported shooting of a student was around 8:30. According to Prachatai, one of the deaths red shirt deaths was at 1am, the other at 5am. Not sure when the soldier died. There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus. His mother says he went missing and wants police to investigate whether it's his body. Have seen no more details of that so far.

[NongKhaiKid]

This was never going to end well. I'm surprised the casualties are as low as they so far are given the proclivity for mob rule and mindless violence exhibited here in the past in similar protests.

Well said and it's sad it has to be said.

[whybother]

Yes, sorry. I just meant that as far as I know all deaths took place on the street, not on the campus. But the details are still rather unclear. The first reported shooting of a student was around 8:30. According to Prachatai, one of the deaths red shirt deaths was at 1am, the other at 5am. Not sure when the soldier died. There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus. His mother says he went missing and wants police to investigate whether it's his body. Have seen no more details of that so far.

"There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus."

Do you mean the body that was burnt to the bones ... and missing a skull? How hot was that fire?

[noitom]

Why doesn't the newspaper track down who it was whose body was burned to death on the bus? What's with the newspaper letting this go?

[Emptyset]

Yes, sorry. I just meant that as far as I know all deaths took place on the street, not on the campus. But the details are still rather unclear. The first reported shooting of a student was around 8:30. According to Prachatai, one of the deaths red shirt deaths was at 1am, the other at 5am. Not sure when the soldier died. There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus. His mother says he went missing and wants police to investigate whether it's his body. Have seen no more details of that so far.

"There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus."

Do you mean the body that was burnt to the bones ... and missing a skull? How hot was that fire?

Yes. Hopefully it's not true. Didn't realize the body was missing a skull.

[whybother]

Yes, sorry. I just meant that as far as I know all deaths took place on the street, not on the campus. But the details are still rather unclear. The first reported shooting of a student was around 8:30. According to Prachatai, one of the deaths red shirt deaths was at 1am, the other at 5am. Not sure when the soldier died. There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus. His mother says he went missing and wants police to investigate whether it's his body. Have seen no more details of that so far.

"There are also unconfirmed reports that a 17 year old boy's corpse was found in the burned bus."

Do you mean the body that was burnt to the bones ... and missing a skull? How hot was that fire?

Yes. Hopefully it's not true. Didn't realize the body was missing a skull.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685957-red-shirt-bus-burnt-by-angry-bangkok-mobs/

Witnesses said after the bus was burned to the ground, a skeleton was found hanging inside the bus rear toilet. It was not known if it was the skeleton of a human being or animal as the skeleton was just a back bone part but with no skull and arms.

[DocN]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

...and responsible are both sides, I might add!

Edited December 3, 2013 by DocN

[newcomer71]

Already some biased speculation on this thread. No big surprise...

The fact is 4 people dead for the fact that blind ideology and erupted violence had taken place of the peaceful protest.

Sincere condolences for families, and shame on who does speculations on dead people.

[crumpled]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

Have to agree with that sentiment.

Very sad too IMHO that so many foreigners on here have to bitch and fight amongst each other each time one of these events happens.

So many new names crop up on here each time in what seems like attempts to inflame the situation here.Is there not enough of that going on in Bangkok already without these know alls doing so here too?

Hopefully the country will see some peace for the Kings birthday and that sense might be allowed to rise from that and sensible talks begin between all parties.

[Emptyset]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685957-red-shirt-bus-burnt-by-angry-bangkok-mobs/

Witnesses said after the bus was burned to the ground, a skeleton was found hanging inside the bus rear toilet. It was not known if it was the skeleton of a human being or animal as the skeleton was just a back bone part but with no skull and arms.

Thanks for that. All sounds very strange. Hopefully it is indeed an animal hung as a skeleton, but that doesn't sound like a common practice. Here's where I saw the information:

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala ‏@Thai_Talk 8h

A woman is asking police to check DNA of the charred skeleton found in burnt bus, suspecting it's her 17-yr-o son, reports @MatichonOnline

Edited December 3, 2013 by Emptyset

[Jasun]

"I have been pressured to choose side, but I want to confirm that my son belonged to no side," Mr. Naramet reportedly said, adding that the matter is now under legal procedure and that he wished the country would return to peace in the near future.

This guy for PM.

[Local Drunk]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685957-red-shirt-bus-burnt-by-angry-bangkok-mobs/

Witnesses said after the bus was burned to the ground, a skeleton was found hanging inside the bus rear toilet. It was not known if it was the skeleton of a human being or animal as the skeleton was just a back bone part but with no skull and arms.

Thanks for that. All sounds very strange. Hopefully it is indeed an animal hung as a skeleton, but that doesn't sound like a common practice. Here's where I saw the information:

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala ‏@Thai_Talk 8h

A woman is asking police to check DNA of the charred skeleton found in burnt bus, suspecting it's her 17-yr-o son, reports @MatichonOnline

"a skeleton was found hanging inside the bus rear toilet."

Hanging? Ummm... Wouldn't the driver know something about that? He did file a complaint with the police.

[gemini81]

This was never going to end well. I'm surprised the casualties are as low as they so far are given the proclivity for mob rule and mindless violence exhibited here in the past in similar protests.

Well said and it's sad it has to be said.

Good point- on a positive note, one thing about it here, be it culture, Buddhism, whatever factor, at least war doesn't break out and continue for generations, with thousands of deaths (compared to most other countries who have mobs/riots of this many protesters).

[moe666]

I do not think a skeleton would hang from anything unless there was connective tissue holding it together then it would still be a body.

[rogerdee123]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

Have to agree with that sentiment.

Very sad too IMHO that so many foreigners on here have to bitch and fight amongst each other each time one of these events happens.

So many new names crop up on here each time in what seems like attempts to inflame the situation here.Is there not enough of that going on in Bangkok already without these know alls doing so here too?

Hopefully the country will see some peace for the Kings birthday and that sense might be allowed to rise from that and sensible talks begin between all parties.

Yes the new names crop up at times like this. Don't let them wind you up. Back in 2010 it was alleged that Thaksin's PR firm (Robert Amsterdam) had hired a bunch of Uni students to respond to public discussion forums in ways positive for the Thaksin point of view. While I tend to think this TV forum isn't quite as important for PR purposes as those comment sections on the BBC news website etc ... who knows. I suppose we will read about it all when someone writes a book about it some years from now.

[DrDweeb]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

Have to agree with that sentiment.

Very sad too IMHO that so many foreigners on here have to bitch and fight amongst each other each time one of these events happens.

So many new names crop up on here each time in what seems like attempts to inflame the situation here.Is there not enough of that going on in Bangkok already without these know alls doing so here too?

Hopefully the country will see some peace for the Kings birthday and that sense might be allowed to rise from that and sensible talks begin between all parties.

Yes, there appears to be a lot of astroturfing going on here, particularly but not limited to the "red" supporters.

This protest is about Thailand versus the Reds.

My gf's family are still waiting for money for their rice, as are everyone else in their village.

How long can the government last, having cut off the money supply to the poor?

[jaidam]

Tin soldiers and Yinglucks coming, were finally on our own. Thai history clearly shows that when any sitting PM orders militia under her command to shoot dead many innocent people especially students the end to their reign is nigh.

It is a shame to see her lose what could have been considered as the moral high ground. Now she will be consigned to the history books as just another brutal self serving ruler that has no qualms in needlessly shooting dead peaceful protesters in order to keep her clan in power. Disgraceful behavior, I expected better from her.

[HuaHinHarold]

Very sad too IMHO that so many foreigners on here have to bitch and fight amongst each other each time one of these events happens.

So many new names crop up on here each time in what seems like attempts to inflame the situation here.Is there not enough of that going on in Bangkok already without these know alls doing so here too?

Hopefully the country will see some peace for the Kings birthday and that sense might be allowed to rise from that and sensible talks begin between all parties.

Yes the new names crop up at times like this. Don't let them wind you up. Back in 2010 it was alleged that Thaksin's PR firm (Robert Amsterdam) had hired a bunch of Uni students to respond to public discussion forums in ways positive for the Thaksin point of view. While I tend to think this TV forum isn't quite as important for PR purposes as those comment sections on the BBC news website etc ... who knows. I suppose we will read about it all when someone writes a book about it some years from now.

wiki

Perception management:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_management

Actions to convey and/or deny selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning as well as to intelligence systems and leaders at all to influence official estimates, ultimately resulting in foreign behaviors and official actions favorable to the originator's objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception, and psychological operations.

[FangFerang]

The boy's father was quoted in the story: "I have been pressured to choose side, but I want to confirm that my son belonged to no side," Mr. Naramet reportedly said, adding that the matter is now under legal procedure and that he wished the country would return to peace in the near future.

Mr Naramet has more moral character in the face of personal tragedy than I have ever seen. I am astonished and inspired.

[Dibbler]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

There were no yellow shirts (ultranationalists) involved. The red shirt leadership chose to hold their rally right next to the Ramkhamhaeng Univ campus, a hotbed of political activism, right at the beginning of the school term. Busloads of poor uneducated Isan farmers pouring into the Rajamangala stadium, mostly hired to join the crowd, and not exactly pillars of society. Understandably this disturbed students, faculty and other locals (there are many folks from southern Thailand in the Ram area), and they tried to push them out. Thanks to the red shirts disturbing the peace they've had to close the university and schools and sports facilities in the area, and students and athletes have had to stay home. Whoever planned the rally should be arrested and charged with disturbing the peace.

[Katipo]

Mr. Taweesak's father is brave and showing a more level head at this time in spite of the tradegy that has befallen him. My deepest respect and codolences go out to him. I hope justice is served, and the peace he wishes for is found.

[catweazle]

Again, RIP to the vicims... One of those days, where I lose faith in humanity in general

So far for "peaceful".

In my opinion, as soon as the first casualty is reported, people should stop and go home, whatever corner they are in, whatever color they cheer for since it is obvious that their attempt to establish a true democracy has failed big time. If true and "coming from the heart" intentions are the driving factors behind a mass rally, any dead person resulting from this should be seen as failure and/or defeat of the whole cause. If the cause and the motivation behind a demonstration or mass rally would be downright good and noble, everyone would join in and there would be no need for a fight.

A dead driver on a race track usually ends the race and each and every driver would mourn the dead comrade; no one would have or express the feeling of victory. This is good, this is noble.

Go home, Suthep and you blindly following sheeple! Things went much too far already. Sit out the time that Yingluck has gotten via demomocratic vote, and come up with a better plan and better intentions next time so you might convince and win the majority of people in a democratic process, not through violence and grinding the country and its tourism to a screeching halt.

Edited December 3, 2013 by catweazle

[rebelplatoon]

It's interesting that red shirts never follow any news on yellow shirts and vice versus. This would help both sides understand each others grievances. I see red shirts only watching the provocative red shirt rallies and yellow shirts only the yellow shirt side of the story. Both sides have points. The only way out is to have a dialogue. The way out is not a non-elected Government, that is a joke. It should either be an agreed upon business government (which would take both factions in government to work together as equal partners) or new elections. I see the latter coming up with an interim government to be installed by the military as neither side will budge.... Sad but true.

[lostmebike]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

...and responsible are both sides, I might add!

Couldn't agree more Doc.

These white's/yellows or whatever the hell they are have now sank to the very bottom along with the bullies they are trying to kick out. Shame on you.

Can't help thinking, how many of Suthep's 'peaceful protesters' were reds at the last election?