Street clashes dead identified as 1 student, 3 redshirts

[tingtongteesood]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

MY ASS ! The reds bring violence everywhere they go. If they were not at the stadium it would not have happened. If Jatuporn was not brainwashing them it wouldn't have happened. If the government was not paying the sheeple and bussing them in by the busload to act as thier own private militia it wouldn't have happened. The blood is on the hands of the UDD, the 'Reds' and the government. Wherever the reds had been stationed there would have been violence because that is who they are and it is what they do, they try to bully and intimidate and if someone tries to fight back they pull out their guns and start shooting....Remember people : If you see red then there will be blood.

[AlphMichaels]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

Lest we forget..., the protests began against the government many days ago and over the amnesty bill, in large measure. Subsequent to Suthep's charge, voting constituents of a government they duly elected (by a solid majority) in 2011 came into fray to voice their feelings to the "opposition's opposition".

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong. This is a breakdown of the democratic process. I care not about discussing the makeup of the current government and each elected official OR their propensity for corruption..., politicians, in large measure, ARE or become corrupt at some level. It has become a near inevitability in our world today..., not just Thailand. The idea of a small group of MPs standing up and saying "I quit because I disagree" goes against every tenant of democracy.

A democracy starts with elections and those elected official are empowered to do their best in a democratic process to represent their constituents THROUGH their elected term . Period. They have the right to vote for or against any measure placed in front of them. they can be vocal about it, presenting their position and the position of the people who elected them.

I think the fact that the Red Shirts wanted to keep their protests confined and away from the government opposition protesters is a big statement.

The bloodshed is and will always be on Suthep's hands, regardless of how this plays out. Sad at every level.

[rebelplatoon]

Yep. And not only bc of the infighting but also the xenophobic visa and property laws as opposed to the surrounding countries, Thailand will lose out... Sad....

[F430murci]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

What does the enclosed area have to do with it? No one was killed in the stadium. How much of the violence went on INSIDE the university? That would suggest that it was the red shirts that were going outside their area.

There were no yellow shirts (ultranationalists) involved. The red shirt leadership chose to hold their rally right next to the Ramkhamhaeng Univ campus, a hotbed of political activism, right at the beginning of the school term. Busloads of poor uneducated Isan farmers pouring into the Rajamangala stadium, mostly hired to join the crowd, and not exactly pillars of society. Understandably this disturbed students, faculty and other locals (there are many folks from southern Thailand in the Ram area), and they tried to push them out. Thanks to the red shirts disturbing the peace they've had to close the university and schools and sports facilities in the area, and students and athletes have had to stay home. Whoever planned the rally should be arrested and charged with disturbing the peace.

Disturbing the peace. Haha, what do you think a 100,000 in the street are doing? There is no peace to disturb. Some of you guys should be stand up comics as this stuff is priceless.

[F430murci]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

...and responsible are both sides, I might add!

You would think this was common sense and not rocket science to figure out, but apparently I am wrong and we have very few rocket scientist on here that can make that logical leap. This forum is the BEST entertainment on the net and can definitely make a sad situation amusing.

[Lakegeneve]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

This sort of blatant ignorance is really silly.

Firstly, 4 people died which is immensely sad.

2ndly the "yellow shirts" label is completely irrelevant to the incident and shows that you have no idea what you are writing.

3rdly, most informed people know that like most incidents of this nature we are unlikely to have many facts for some time and most know not to rely on the usually inaccurate thai press for correct info nor police statements.

Ram Uni is the largest public uni in BKK. It is predominately a campus of students from low socio-economic areas who can't afford private uni fees. That means many students from the NE and the south. RU also has many students who didn't finish high school doing a uni based bridging course.

The Students and Peoples Network for Thailand Reform (SRT) who have been based at Nang Lerng opposing the amnesty bill don't even have many members from RU being predominately other unis. And there are a bunch of students groups involved currently in the protests. There was no organised rally planned for that night. it appears that somehow some initial incidents occurred and then things escalated from there in a spiral of counter attacks. Most of the violence reportedly occurred at the rear on soi 24 than on Ram rd side.

The were some reports by RU students that a female student wearing an anti-govt neckband or something similar was harassed by some males, supposedly red shirts, going to Raja stadium. Some male RU students then reportedly retaliated and things escalated from there. A very unfortunate and horrific incident then occurs where a bus and taxi are attacked on Ram rd by a number of young males.

I don't know if that sequence of events is somewhat accurate but it would make some sense and seems a reasonably understandable overview. Thai guys finding an excuse to fight over a relatively small incident and then everything escalates from there is a very typical event as we all know. We are talking about a city where attacks on buses by rival tech students resulting in fatalities is not uncommon (in fact Bangkapi up the rd is an area where they occur).

I really felt for those pax in the BMTA bus, it would have been terrifying. In the evening things really start to escalate and intensify with projectiles thrown. Later, unknown individuals then start to use guns. Some RU students then report being shot at in their dorms which are located on campus. Red shirt guards also report coming under fire.

The fact that many students were then stuck in their dorms during the night and that police failed to intervene to ensure that the confrontating groups were separated and secure the whole area is not in dispute. Police had previously stated that they have mobile riot police who can be deployed to any area of BKK promptly for just such incidents. Students then needed a military escort to evacuate from the area late morning the next day. That the red shirt leaders (not a homogeneous bunch btw, there are many factions & they have had political & power disputes) decided to leave Raja stadium on Sat night is to their absolute credit as it helped to deescalate the situation.

Was this politically motivated violence? most likely not. Was politics involved in some way, obviously yes. Do we know the facts of what occurred that night, no we don't and anyone silly enough to attribute blame beyond the police is showing themselves to be a fool.

In May 2010, I personally witnessed & filmed pitched battles at the intersection of Silom rd and Rama 4 involving rock, bottle and other projectile throwing between red shirts who had extended their barricade down Ratchadamri rd to Rama 4 and a large group of people on the Silom rd side. This occurred over a number of nights without police intervening though they were in situ. Eventually and reluctantly they did on one night.

Now you would have said "oh those yellow shirts attacking the reds". Fact was it was all Silom stall workers/traders and their friends who are predominately from the Klong Toey slums. ie. very poor people fighting the reds shirts. Why was this happening? Well after the red shirts extended their occupation zone down to Rama 4 all of Silom rd was closed. Thus, the stalls were all closed and the stall workers thus had no income though they had rental liabilities to the people who control the stalls.

That example doesn't at all fit into the simplistic narrative of 'middle class & elite yellow shirts' vs 'poor rural red shirts' which in itself is overly simplistic. There are other examples over the last 7 years which also don't fit such a simplistic view.

I appreciate that a simplistic and ignorant red vs yellow analysis is an easy one for most to cling onto. Reality is much more complex. Let's wait & see how the DSI investigation into the deaths unfolds

[farangbanok]

Lakegeneve

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

This sort of blatant ignorance is really silly.

Excellent post - balanced and accurate.

[Emdog]

I think of all the anti red shirt crowd here that was sure it was reds attacking, that they are rabid hyenas, etc as are all the other ignorant, uneducated low life that they are said to be.... How about "manning up" and admiting perhaps you were wrong, that your sweet elite and middle class perhaps have homicidal tendancies as much as anyone???? And that somehow the reasoning that red shirts gathering peacefully at a stadium is superior behavior to storming government buildings, burning buses, etc?

[DGIE]

Father of the victim said:

I want to confirm that my son belonged to no side," Mr. Naramet reportedly said, adding that the matter is now under legal procedure and that he wished the country would return to peace in the near future.

I salute you , Mr. Naramet in your wish. I wish the same even if I am not Thai.

[tingtongteesood]

Just look at the reds track record from 2010 and stop being ignorant. Try to know the facts instead of just being opinionated...

[fasteddie]

Tin soldiers and Yinglucks coming, were finally on our own. Thai history clearly shows that when any sitting PM orders militia under her command to shoot dead many innocent people especially students the end to their reign is nigh.

It is a shame to see her lose what could have been considered as the moral high ground. Now she will be consigned to the history books as just another brutal self serving ruler that has no qualms in needlessly shooting dead peaceful protesters in order to keep her clan in power. Disgraceful behavior, I expected better from her.

What are you blathering on about? No such order has been given, nor have any of the terrorists been shot by police or army.

[johnlandy]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

I must be blind, as I don't see where yellow shirts were involved. At least 2 of the red shirts (who died) were survivors of the Oct 2010 riots, and they have succeeded this time around and they cannot blame

Abhisit this time and I don't see anything that indicates Suthep is responsible.

Your statement is no different than saying Ho Chi Minh killed a hundred thousand ++ yanks in Naam, or a farang is guilty of causing an vehicle accident simply because he was in Thailand at the time.

There is only one person who is responsible for the current protests, and whatever results as a consequence and every one know who that is

Edited December 3, 2013 by johnlandy

[DocN]

RIP to all

...and shame on those responsible

...shame on those, treating this like the Olympics of Idiocy: You shot first! No, you shot first!

...and responsible are both sides, I might add!

Couldn't agree more Doc.

These white's/yellows or whatever the hell they are have now sank to the very bottom along with the bullies they are trying to kick out. Shame on you.

Can't help thinking, how many of Suthep's 'peaceful protesters' were reds at the last election? alt=whistling.gif width=19 height=18>

Good that you agree with me...and now stop the selective reading and focus on this part: ...and responsible are both sides, I might add!

Just look at the reds track record from 2010 and stop being ignorant. Try to know the facts instead of just being opinionated...

...and that helps...how?

[Emptyset]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

I must be blind, as I don't see where yellow shirts were involved. At least 2 of the red shirts (who died) were survivors of the Oct 2010 riots, and they have succeeded this time around and they cannot blame

Abhisit this time and I don't see anything that indicates Suthep is responsible.

Your statement is no different than saying Ho Chi Minh killed a hundred thousand ++ yanks in Naam, or a farang is guilty of causing an vehicle accident simply because he was in Thailand at the time.

There is only one person who is responsible for the current protests, and whatever results as a consequence and every one know who that is

How do you know the red shirts involved were also involved in (May) 2010? I'm not saying they weren't, but you obviously know a lot of details about them. What did they succeed in doing other than getting themselved killed? Shouldn't the students bear any responsibility?

There isn't one person responsible for these protests. Do you honestly think Suthep is some sort of lone mad dog? It doesn't work like that.

[gerry1011]

I think of all the anti red shirt crowd here that was sure it was reds attacking, that they are rabid hyenas, etc as are all the other ignorant, uneducated low life that they are said to be.... How about "manning up" and admiting perhaps you were wrong, that your sweet elite and middle class perhaps have homicidal tendancies as much as anyone???? And that somehow the reasoning that red shirts gathering peacefully at a stadium is superior behavior to storming government buildings, burning buses, etc?

You wish >_>

Anti reds are so blinded by hate and anger, no way you can make them admit that the yellows thugs or the dems could do anything wrong.

What I find quite funny - and terribly hypocrite - is to read this sudden compassion for the deceased protesters.

Everybody could guess from the very first day that Suthep' mobs would incite violence and that the result would be a bloody one.

Everybody knew that the reds would show strong support for their elected government.

Everybody knew that confrontation would happen.

All those who supported the Dems and Suthep in starting this new round of irrational protests, and bringing chaos back to Thailand, have their share of responsibility in the death toll.

The wise thing to do is to end the vicious circle of the mob rule that the yellows started in 2006.

But all those who supported these thugs in their aim of overthrowing democracy are just hypocrites when they show sudden compassion for the victims or tell us that their wife is "in tears" (but still would like to see all reds dead).

Mob rule brings chaos and death.

Elections are the only peaceful way to go.

The storm will start again on the 6th.

By that time all deaths will be forgotten and hate speeches will resurface...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited December 3, 2013 by gerry1011

[HuaHinHarold]

I think of all the anti red shirt crowd here that was sure it was reds attacking, that they are rabid hyenas, etc as are all the other ignorant, uneducated low life that they are said to be.... How about "manning up"

How about manning up and direct your post specifically to those posts that state what you say they state.

It would go a lot further than your generalized, shotgun-blast-type forum bashing.

[SlyAnimal]

I have just removed a post + quoted replies from this thread, as it used multiple (10+) blind links/references.

The rules regarding posting of blind links / blind references (below)

23) To use discretion when using blind references in any post or signature. Not all users of ThaiVisa.com are experienced enough to understand where these links may point.

This rule does just ask for discretion, so using them is ok, however the quoted posts had 15+. I assume that the links were nothing malicious, but please refrain from using so many of them in the future.

[Emptyset]

The Bangkok Post report on this is worth reading. The Post's anon witnesses make it clear that the students were the initial aggressors. It seems some of the red shirts were vocational students and wanted to retaliate, but obviously they're the ones that came off worse in the end. I've heard several things, that Thaksin's men in black were involved, that the military were involved, that some other unknown third hand was involved, but the most plausible thing seems to be that the main shooting was between the red shirt technical school students and their peers on the other side. Some of the pictures I've seen circulated by the anti-govt side purported to be from Saturday night are actually from April 10th.

The RU Rector is as culpable as Jatuporn for provocation, calling as he did on Saturday night (after the fighting had already begun) for students to come out to 'protect the university', when he should've appealed for peace. If you're going to condemn Jatuporn, you should also be condemning the Rector. It also turns out the red shirts were trapped in the stadium by gun shots, not just the students. It's interesting that both groups are claiming snipers were involved though. I wouldn't totally rule out outside involvement, the red shirts strongly believe there was and that's one of the reasons they left the next day. Something spooked them. Also it turns out the police did try to intervene, but they were unarmed and unable to get into the road.

Also worth noting Nick Nostitz was present during the late night fighting. Good to see he's still out there doing his job, despite attempts to intimidate him. Hopefully he'll write up a detailed report at some point and we might find out more.

[bigbamboo]

The Bangkok Post report on this is worth reading. The Post's anon witnesses make it clear that the students were the initial aggressors. It seems some of the red shirts were vocational students and wanted to retaliate, but obviously they're the ones that came off worse in the end. I've heard several things, that Thaksin's men in black were involved, that the military were involved, that some other unknown third hand was involved, but the most plausible thing seems to be that the main shooting was between the red shirt technical school students and their peers on the other side. Some of the pictures I've seen circulated by the anti-govt side purported to be from Saturday night are actually from April 10th.

The RU Rector is as culpable as Jatuporn for provocation, calling as he did on Saturday night (after the fighting had already begun) for students to come out to 'protect the university', when he should've appealed for peace. If you're going to condemn Jatuporn, you should also be condemning the Rector. It also turns out the red shirts were trapped in the stadium by gun shots, not just the students. It's interesting that both groups are claiming snipers were involved though. I wouldn't totally rule out outside involvement, the red shirts strongly believe there was and that's one of the reasons they left the next day. Something spooked them. Also it turns out the police did try to intervene, but they were unarmed and unable to get into the road.

Also worth noting Nick Nostitz was present during the late night fighting. Good to see he's still out there doing his job, despite attempts to intimidate him. Hopefully he'll write up a detailed report at some point and we might find out more.

"Gone to fight with next door's school

Every term that is the rule"

And it is madness.

Edited December 3, 2013 by bigbamboo

[fasteddie]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

I must be blind, as I don't see where yellow shirts were involved. At least 2 of the red shirts (who died) were survivors of the Oct 2010 riots, and they have succeeded this time around and they cannot blame

Abhisit this time and I don't see anything that indicates Suthep is responsible.

Your statement is no different than saying Ho Chi Minh killed a hundred thousand ++ yanks in Naam, or a farang is guilty of causing an vehicle accident simply because he was in Thailand at the time.

There is only one person who is responsible for the current protests, and whatever results as a consequence and every one know who that is

"There is only one person who is responsible for the current protests, and whatever results as a consequence and every one know who that is"

Correct! Suthep.

[kimamey]

I do not think a skeleton would hang from anything unless there was connective tissue holding it together then it would still be a body.

Hopefully it was just a dead animal for cooking when they arrived at the stadium. As you say the rest of the bones wouldn't be connected.

[Nickymaster]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

This sort of blatant ignorance is really silly.

Firstly, 4 people died which is immensely sad.

2ndly the "yellow shirts" label is completely irrelevant to the incident and shows that you have no idea what you are writing.

3rdly, most informed people know that like most incidents of this nature we are unlikely to have many facts for some time and most know not to rely on the usually inaccurate thai press for correct info nor police statements.

Ram Uni is the largest public uni in BKK. It is predominately a campus of students from low socio-economic areas who can't afford private uni fees. That means many students from the NE and the south. RU also has many students who didn't finish high school doing a uni based bridging course.

The Students and Peoples Network for Thailand Reform (SRT) who have been based at Nang Lerng opposing the amnesty bill don't even have many members from RU being predominately other unis. And there are a bunch of students groups involved currently in the protests. There was no organised rally planned for that night. it appears that somehow some initial incidents occurred and then things escalated from there in a spiral of counter attacks. Most of the violence reportedly occurred at the rear on soi 24 than on Ram rd side.

The were some reports by RU students that a female student wearing an anti-govt neckband or something similar was harassed by some males, supposedly red shirts, going to Raja stadium. Some male RU students then reportedly retaliated and things escalated from there. A very unfortunate and horrific incident then occurs where a bus and taxi are attacked on Ram rd by a number of young males.

I don't know if that sequence of events is somewhat accurate but it would make some sense and seems a reasonably understandable overview. Thai guys finding an excuse to fight over a relatively small incident and then everything escalates from there is a very typical event as we all know. We are talking about a city where attacks on buses by rival tech students resulting in fatalities is not uncommon (in fact Bangkapi up the rd is an area where they occur).

I really felt for those pax in the BMTA bus, it would have been terrifying. In the evening things really start to escalate and intensify with projectiles thrown. Later, unknown individuals then start to use guns. Some RU students then report being shot at in their dorms which are located on campus. Red shirt guards also report coming under fire.

The fact that many students were then stuck in their dorms during the night and that police failed to intervene to ensure that the confrontating groups were separated and secure the whole area is not in dispute. Police had previously stated that they have mobile riot police who can be deployed to any area of BKK promptly for just such incidents. Students then needed a military escort to evacuate from the area late morning the next day. That the red shirt leaders (not a homogeneous bunch btw, there are many factions & they have had political & power disputes) decided to leave Raja stadium on Sat night is to their absolute credit as it helped to deescalate the situation.

Was this politically motivated violence? most likely not. Was politics involved in some way, obviously yes. Do we know the facts of what occurred that night, no we don't and anyone silly enough to attribute blame beyond the police is showing themselves to be a fool.

In May 2010, I personally witnessed & filmed pitched battles at the intersection of Silom rd and Rama 4 involving rock, bottle and other projectile throwing between red shirts who had extended their barricade down Ratchadamri rd to Rama 4 and a large group of people on the Silom rd side. This occurred over a number of nights without police intervening though they were in situ. Eventually and reluctantly they did on one night.

Now you would have said "oh those yellow shirts attacking the reds". Fact was it was all Silom stall workers/traders and their friends who are predominately from the Klong Toey slums. ie. very poor people fighting the reds shirts. Why was this happening? Well after the red shirts extended their occupation zone down to Rama 4 all of Silom rd was closed. Thus, the stalls were all closed and the stall workers thus had no income though they had rental liabilities to the people who control the stalls.

That example doesn't at all fit into the simplistic narrative of 'middle class & elite yellow shirts' vs 'poor rural red shirts' which in itself is overly simplistic. There are other examples over the last 7 years which also don't fit such a simplistic view.

I appreciate that a simplistic and ignorant red vs yellow analysis is an easy one for most to cling onto. Reality is much more complex. Let's wait & see how the DSI investigation into the deaths unfolds

Keep those posts coming please. We need more guys like you here on TV.

[Nickymaster]

Peaceful yellow shirts approaching people in an enclosed area who were holding a peaceful rally in private. Now 4 have lost their lives which wouldn't have happened if the yellows had not attacked. More blood on Sutheps hands

Paying people and arranging hundreds of buses to bring Reds (from all over Thailand) to Bangkok when there are huge protests going is asking for a disaster. And yes, Thaksin and his Red puppets got one. Mission accomplished.

Could you please clarify which yellows you are are talking about.