Yingluck accused of dodging responsibility over Ramkhamhaeng shootings

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Yingluck accused of dodging responsibility over Ramkhamhaeng shootings



BANGKOK: -- The Democrat party has accused Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra of ducking responsibility for the violence against Ramkhamhaeng Univeristy students and threatened to take actions against the government on six issues.

Party spokesman Chavanond Intharakomalasut said Tuesday that the party’s working committee headed by party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva assessed the political situation since the start of the protests against the government and concluded that the prime minister still remains aloof of all the problems and refuses to take any responsibility for the political crisis and violent incidents which took place during the monthlong protests.

The six issues that the Democrats will take actions include:

- The police must investigate the shooting incidents at Ramkhamhaeng University in a straightforward manner.

- The party will ask the Criminal court to withdraw bails for two red-shirt leaders, Jatuporn Promphan and Natthawut Saikua for their alleged role in inciting violence perpetrated by red-shirt followers.

- The party will ask the National Anti-Corruption Commission to take legal actions against 312 senators and MPs for their role in amending the charter on Senate composition.

- The party will inform international orgainsations about the police use of banned chemicals against the protesters.

- The party will ask the National Human Rights Commission to investigate alleged human right violations by the government.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/yingluck-accused-dodging-responsibility-ramkhamhaeng-shootings/

-- Thai PBS 2013-12-04

[millwall_fan]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

[Thait Spot]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site.  It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides. 

Indeed. It is quite normal for them to bring guns, knives, clubs etc. To a peaceful gathering.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[noikrit]

Yingluck is Prime Minister, Defence Minister and Minister for Shopping , of course she must take responsibility ... Someone just has to explain it to her ... slowly !!!!

[smutcakes]

Why the hell is it her responsibility anymore than anyone else? People kill other people everyday in every country all over the world.

If you want to try and make it her responsibility due to it being a political rally, why is it her responsibility anymore than leader of the Democrats or Suthep or any other politician for that matter.

There is a far cry from allegedly giving an order to the army to use live fire or whatever and people killing each other at a rally. I don't believe Abhisit or Suthep should be held responsible, unless there was some extremely reckless and provable evidence which I doubt very much there is, any more than why Yingluck should or could take responsibility on this, even more so when there are no verifiable facts.

[Jasun]

Politicising these deaths is absolute gutter politics.

[jaidam]

She will not be able to dodge responsibility over all these deaths. As Prime Minister and Defense Minister and according to her, the person in charge and leading her government, she must bear ultimate responsibility of all actions carried out by the state. So far she has had about 300 people injured and 5 deaths in the street riots precipitated by her governments ramming through of Thaksins amnesty law and her governments decision to put itself above the courts.

It is a shame as she looks so pretty and helpless, but in reality is just another brutal leader with bloodied hands. Shame on her, and shame on her family. How many more deaths will it take to remove this malignant family from Thai politics?

[Mampara]

She pleaded many times for a peaceful demonstration, everything went well until Mr T, made a phone call to one of his sidekicks to organise bus loads of R/S, and then the twang hit the fan. So whose fault is it really? someone who tried to plead for a violent free demonstration, or a untouchable? I say get rid of all his sidekicks and leave her alone, Remember the women in this country outnumber the men by 7 to 1, she will never be outvoted.

Edited December 4, 2013 by metisdead
Unnecessary usage of bold font removed.

[ramrod711]

- The party will ask the Criminal court to withdraw bails for two red-shirt leaders, Jatuporn Promphan and Natthawut Saikua for their alleged role in inciting violence perpetrated by red-shirt followers.

- The party will ask the National Anti-Corruption Commission to take legal actions against 312 senators and MPs for their role in amending the charter on Senate composition.

Jatuporn and Natthawut; bail should be revoked, should never have been granted in the first place. Anyone who disagrees with that cannot complain if Suthep gets bail.

Legal action against MPs: The bill was unconstitutional, probably when it was introduced, but certainly after it was amended between the first and second readings. MPS who voted for it should be prosecuted.

[gemini81]

She pleaded many times for a peaceful demonstration, everything went well until Mr T, made a phone call to one of his sidekicks to organise bus loads of R/S, and then the twang hit the fan. So whose fault is it really? someone who tried to plead for a violent free demonstration, or a untouchable? I say get rid of all his sidekicks and leave her alone, Remember the women in this country outnumber the men by 7 to 1, she will never be outvoted.

I guess never being outvoted compensates for always being outsmarted. Women don't outnumber men by as extreme as 7 to 1, but I see your point. However, I don't think chromosome X determines results. A country with 80% of the people having a low education, and Yingluck's family buying votes does, however.

[GeorgeO]

She pleaded many times for a peaceful demonstration, everything went well until Mr T, made a phone call to one of his sidekicks to organise bus loads of R/S, and then the twang hit the fan. So whose fault is it really? someone who tried to plead for a violent free demonstration, or a untouchable? I say get rid of all his sidekicks and leave her alone, Remember the women in this country outnumber the men by 7 to 1, she will never be outvoted.

So she is not culpable essentially because she isn't really running the government? If she isn't running the government, then what the hell is she doing there?

Fine, accept that it's all the fault of Mr.T and his sidekicks, and then go after them with everything you've got, but in the meantime, advise this lady that she is out a job (which she didn't really have in the first place)...!!

[Prbkk]

7/1...that must be a huge increase in 'gender re-assignment'

[Emptyset]

She will not be able to dodge responsibility over all these deaths. As Prime Minister and Defense Minister and according to her, the person in charge and leading her government, she must bear ultimate responsibility of all actions carried out by the state. So far she has had about 300 people injured and 5 deaths in the street riots precipitated by her governments ramming through of Thaksins amnesty law and her governments decision to put itself above the courts.

It is a shame as she looks so pretty and helpless, but in reality is just another brutal leader with bloodied hands. Shame on her, and shame on her family. How many more deaths will it take to remove this malignant family from Thai politics?

I'm actually starting to wonder if your posts are intended as parody. I honestly can't tell. Are you trying to highlight what you believe is some sort of similarity between the way the Democrats are behaving now and the way that the UDD did in the past?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Emptyset

[chooka]

Suthep started the demonstrations and has been inciting the mob, why are they trying to pass this onto Yingluk?

Send Suthep the bill for 25 billion lost in tourism revenue also.

[Emptyset]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

There's a good report in the Bangkok Post on this. They're not generally known for investigative journalism but in this case they've actually been to the area and interviewed witnesses. There are many theories floating around and some are suggesting there's more to it than meets the eye, as usual. But what witnesses saw was red shirts being attacked by students and red reinforcements later arriving from the surrounding area. Both groups contained technical students, who, as we know, are not unknown for this kind of thing. Then it seems the reds tried to chase the students back into the university, but seemed to come off worse than the students in the early hours during a fight in the soi near RU.

Seems a pretty simple story of two grassroots groups facing off. Nevertheless there's the usual talk of 'third hands', 'men in black', 'snipers' and military involvement. Nick Nostitz was apparently present at the scene during the early hours, I don't think there were any other journalists there. Certainly most of the foreign journalists that witnessed students attacking red shirts in the late afternoon/early evening had gone home by the time the red shirts hit back. So hopefully he'll do a write-up at some point and we'll learn more.

[Alwyn]

When I read the news posts all I see is blah blah now.. sigh

[tomyummer]

Yingluck is Prime Minister, Defence Minister and Minister for Shopping , of course she must take responsibility ... Someone just has to explain it to her ... slowly !!!!    

Thank you three times.

[philw]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

Indeed. It is quite normal for them to bring guns, knives, clubs etc. To a peaceful gathering.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I take it you refer to the "students ".

[philw]

She will not be able to dodge responsibility over all these deaths. As Prime Minister and Defense Minister and according to her, the person in charge and leading her government, she must bear ultimate responsibility of all actions carried out by the state. So far she has had about 300 people injured and 5 deaths in the street riots precipitated by her governments ramming through of Thaksins amnesty law and her governments decision to put itself above the courts.

It is a shame as she looks so pretty and helpless, but in reality is just another brutal leader with bloodied hands. Shame on her, and shame on her family. How many more deaths will it take to remove this malignant family from Thai politics?

Just wonder if you have any comment on Suthep's role in all of this and his clear responsibility for inciting and causing an insurrection and serious rioting ??

The restraint and responsible reactions shown by the government in the face of a deliberate attempt to provoke them into a violent response is laudable.

Suthep now looks like a fool, will shortly be arrested and the government and PM have been seen, by the electorate and the world, to offer conciliation and avoid the escalation of violence.

To all but the die hard Thaksin haters, it's pretty clear who comes out winner, and it's not Suthep.

[Bakseeda]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

Can you show or prove that guns were available to both sides... It is clear to most people by now that the Red Shirts are a vicious mob of thugs... one just has to listen to the vile hatred spouted by their glorious leaders.. Take your red rose tinted glasses off and open your biased eyes... and tell your Red wife to write her own posts...

[whybother]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

It wasn't that sensible a decision to set up at the stadium considering that it is right next door to a university attended by many southern students and also in a Democrat area.

I'm sure that the few red protesters that you saw and thousands of other red protesters weren't going there for violence, just as most students weren't there for violence. It is quite clear from pictures and reports that neither side were peaceful, but that was probably just a couple of hundred from each side that got violent, as with all protests.

The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved, just as the red shirt leaders should have told the red shirts not to get involved, not that protesters listen to the leaders or authorities very often.

Except it does appear that a red shirt leader did tell the students to "stay away or else". That doesn't seem like telling the red shirts not to get involved.

[patjem]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

There's a good report in the Bangkok Post on this. They're not generally known for investigative journalism but in this case they've actually been to the area and interviewed witnesses. There are many theories floating around and some are suggesting there's more to it than meets the eye, as usual. But what witnesses saw was red shirts being attacked by students and red reinforcements later arriving from the surrounding area. Both groups contained technical students, who, as we know, are not unknown for this kind of thing. Then it seems the reds tried to chase the students back into the university, but seemed to come off worse than the students in the early hours during a fight in the soi near RU.

Seems a pretty simple story of two grassroots groups facing off. Nevertheless there's the usual talk of 'third hands', 'men in black', 'snipers' and military involvement. Nick Nostitz was apparently present at the scene during the early hours, I don't think there were any other journalists there. Certainly most of the foreign journalists that witnessed students attacking red shirts in the late afternoon/early evening had gone home by the time the red shirts hit back. So hopefully he'll do a write-up at some point and we'll learn more.

I'm sure Nick will indeed do a write-up on this event, but don't expect that we'll learn anything that is unbiased or a truly reflective account of what happened.

It was a sensible move to disperse the red shirts after this event, else there would be nowhere else for the blame to lie for whatever might transpire later. Given their track record, I can only guess that it was not Nattawut or Juttaporn's decision to disperse..... but somebody at least had some common sense.

[Artisi]

It's not at all clear who started this. The Red Shirts we saw going towards Rajamangala stadium on Saturday, did not look like they were looking for violence. Everyone knew that the Reds had gone to the stadium, it was a sensible choice - well away from Rachadamnoen and the 'Other Shirts' They had a right to protest in Bangkok. The university authorities should have advised students not to get involved or to go down to Rachadamnoen to 'their' sides protest site. It is quite clear from TV and stills pictures that the students were certainly not peaceful protesters, but were a violent mob. One assumes there were elements of the Red Shirts that were happy to mix it too. It also appears that guns were available to both sides.

Can you show or prove that guns were available to both sides... It is clear to most people by now that the Red Shirts are a vicious mob of thugs... one just has to listen to the vile hatred spouted by their glorious leaders.. Take your red rose tinted glasses off and open your biased eyes... and tell your Red wife to write her own posts...

"and tell your wife to write her own posts..."

[rixalex]

Nick Nostitz was apparently present at the scene during the early hours, I don't think there were any other journalists there. Certainly most of the foreign journalists that witnessed students attacking red shirts in the late afternoon/early evening had gone home by the time the red shirts hit back. So hopefully he'll do a write-up at some point and we'll learn more.

Once a journalist - or should that be a photographer? - becomes part of a particular news story, as Nick has done recently, it makes it virtually impossible to go on reporting on that issue, to go on doing their job, without being seen to have "a conflict of interest", as it were.

After all, if you were roughed up by a certain group, only human for that incident to affect the way you report on them, no matter how much you may try for it to not.

Best thing from a professional ethical perspective, would be to take a break from this story. Report on something else. There must be plenty of other interesting issues in Thailand worthy of coverage. No?

[Halion]

is this guy for real? Some Condy's Crystals in a water tank and he's suggesting chemical weapons report....an international laughing stock

Yes this guy is for real and has the intelligence to be able to refer to the chemical material data sheets,

Both the compounds added to the water have detrimental effects as are clearly shown. The practice of adding a dye to the water is a common global practice for crowd control but developed countries with responsible leadership and concern for their citizens use a vegetable dye and not a powerful inorganic oxidizing agent .

The salient point being that the authorities knowingly added these chemicals to the water.

[Skywalker69]

Yingluck is Prime Minister, Defence Minister and Minister for Shopping , of course she must take responsibility ... Someone just has to explain it to her ... slowly !!!!

Thank you for making me spray coffe all over my notebook. Hilarious funny comment.

[Emptyset]

Very, very sad news. The story I mentioned on a previous thread about the corpse found in the bus burned the day after this incident is unfortunately true.

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala ‏@Thai_Talk 13m

Charred skeleton in the burnt bus has been identified. 17-year-old Suradech. RIP :-( RT “@top10thai: pic.twitter.com/BUAlomDGEf via @kowit_js100

[tingtongteesood]

Why the hell is it her responsibility anymore than anyone else? People kill other people everyday in every country all over the world.

If you want to try and make it her responsibility due to it being a political rally, why is it her responsibility anymore than leader of the Democrats or Suthep or any other politician for that matter.

There is a far cry from allegedly giving an order to the army to use live fire or whatever and people killing each other at a rally. I don't believe Abhisit or Suthep should be held responsible, unless there was some extremely reckless and provable evidence which I doubt very much there is, any more than why Yingluck should or could take responsibility on this, even more so when there are no verifiable facts.

But PT are taking Suthep and Abhisit to court to try them on murder charges for the protests in 2010 and whilst it was purely a ploy to try and force them to agree to the bs amnesty bill, they didn't think the pair would say 'NO'. Now a protestor has died on the PT watch and likewise their leader should be held equally responsible for 'murder'. The Reds clearly provoked trouble when theey started slapping people about who are not reds, their usual 'mo' and some idiot with a gun shot a protestor in the back, he was the first to die which seems to be left out of the biased news reports and it is my belief that any violence against the reds followed on from that. Then there is the matter of a gunman taking potshots at the university that night. Anyway I digress, if Suthep and Abhisit are to be tried for 'murder' then so too should Yingluck be tried. And as for Nuttawat and Jatuporn they should have both been in prison for 3 years already !!

[winstonc]

Suthep started the demonstrations and has been inciting the mob, why are they trying to pass this onto Yingluk?

Send Suthep the bill for 25 billion lost in tourism revenue also.

where have you been for the last 5 weeks....shes in charge pm....she calls the shots (allegedly)..

[Zolt]

OK, just to get everyone's facts straight: The casualties are 1 student and 3 red shirt protesters. (Or is that 4 including that poor 17-year old kid who got burned alive in that bus torched by anti-government protesters). But of course it's all Yingluck's fault, and her brother who paid thugs to kill these people (to achieve what?). Certainly not Suthep's, not now and not in 2010.

I've zero sympathy for the reds after 2010, but this is just stupid.