US citizens......do you FBAR?

[thailiketoo]

That's ridiculous. For those complying with the law, there is every reason to file ACCURATELY. I am talking about a technical problem with doing that. That is all. This isn't tea party central here. For people who want to give up their American citizenship, I respect that, but most of us don't.

Who is the above post addressed to?

[mogandave]

That's ridiculous. For those complying with the law, there is every reason to file ACCURATELY. I am talking about a technical problem with doing that. That is all. This isn't tea party central here. For people who want to give up their American citizenship, I respect that, but most of us don't.

Just ballpark high if you are not sure. It is not a big deal, it is not like you are being taxed on it.

[JimGant]

Just ballpark high if you are not sure. It is not a big deal, it is not like you are being taxed on it.

Exactly. The Feds have no idea how long that money was in the account; thus, if just one day, no suggestion of any interest earnings. But, the Feds don't know if it's one day -- or one year. FATCA reporting is not yet in effect.

If, indeed, you're reporting your piddly savings account earnings on your US tax filling, the FBAR is just a bureaucratic goat rope, with no application to us poor readers of this forum.

Report the largest amount possible, i.e. the total amalgamated credit. You'll never get called on it. But if you ever did, just advise you were being conservative by certainly over reporting max amount in the account for the year. Again, if income for that account was reported on your annual taxes, absolutely no way you're in any kind of jeopardy with FinCEN -- by being conservative.

By the way, Bangkok Bank also amalgamates when the pass book isn't updated for some length of time (as seen for my gardener, when I updated for him -- not for any of my accounts subject to FBAR).

[wym]

I don't know about the above posted Snipes case, but the stuff written by Thoreau in Civil Disobedience is interesting and, well, he has me convinced to be honest. The gist is why should I be compelled to fund operations I deem to be unlawful (slavery and I believe the Mexican-American war in Thoreau's case)? Imagine if you could track your actual tax dollar..... maybe you paid for a bullet that went through the skull of an innocent child for example. You actually paid to kill the child. Of course, the practical reality is the government is too powerful to disagree with, combined with the fact that I suppose we did in fact elect them. There are no easy answers, but for the government's the "answers" are easy and very clear cut of course, pay or be punished.

Excellent principles, and those who hold them strongly are willing to rot in jail for a long time for them.

Are you?

[JimGant]

I have seen bank (I saw copies) sending complete bank report to tax offices and they don't ask permission.

Bullshiite. Use your brain for a moment -- Thai banks have (as of yet) no incentive to send bank account information to US tax authorities. Besides not having the correct address to send this to, why would they go to the added expense of doing so, if not required?

It's amazing the crap that can come out of gossip sessions -- or alcohol inspired imagination.

[wym]

Anyone wanting your bank info can just get friendly with a staffer and pay them a little, not rocket science TiT.

[thailiketoo]

Anyone wanting your bank info can just get friendly with a staffer and pay them a little, not rocket science TiT.

Are you suggesting the the US Department of the Treasury gets friendly with Thai bank employees? The thought is mind boggling.

[mania]

Thai banks have (as of yet) no incentive to send bank account information to US tax authorities.

I have read recently that US now has FATCA agreements with 22 countries

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101452453

Also saw this recent list & Thailand is not on it ...yet

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/Pages/FATCA.aspx

[thailiketoo]

Thai banks have (as of yet) no incentive to send bank account information to US tax authorities.

I have read recently that US now has FATCA agreements with 22 countries

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101452453

Also saw this recent list & Thailand is not on it ...yet

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/Pages/FATCA.aspx

FBAR. This thread is about FBAR

[mania]

FBAR. This thread is about FBAR

Yes obviously

But the question was asked if US actually gets info from Thai banks

The way they propose to do that is FATCA

I was agreeing with Jim that Thailand is not as yet a signatory

[metisdead]

Troll posts have been removed as well as the replies. The troll has been removed as well.

[maphraw]

FBAR. This thread is about FBAR

Yes obviously

But the question was asked if US actually gets info from Thai banks

The way they propose to do that is FATCA

I was agreeing with Jim that Thailand is not as yet a signatory

A friend who works in Thailand has just submitted his first FBAR (as I did a few weeks ago) He has been working in Thailand for sometime and always files a 2555 for foreign earned income exclusion. He said he is going to declare his Thai bank interest and mutual fund dividends for the first time and not notify the IRS that he hadn't been reporting his Thai assets as he should have been. He thinks they won't bother him because of the small amount and if they do make inquiries and audit him the penalties he might be subject to won't amount to much. An American Tax accountant I talked to in Bangkok (his name is Lanny--anyone know him?) felt that it could be a little more problematic than that. There is also a belief floating around the expat community I live in that there is a statute of limitations and if you have been filing your returns every year but haven't been declaring your Thai assets but include them on your 2013 return the IRS won't hold you accountable for your Thai assets held before the year 2010.

This is just some stuff I have heard and come across recently.

[thailiketoo]

FBAR. This thread is about FBAR

Yes obviously

But the question was asked if US actually gets info from Thai banks

The way they propose to do that is FATCA

I was agreeing with Jim that Thailand is not as yet a signatory

A friend who works in Thailand has just submitted his first FBAR (as I did a few weeks ago) He has been working in Thailand for sometime and always files a 2555 for foreign earned income exclusion. He said he is going to declare his Thai bank interest and mutual fund dividends for the first time and not notify the IRS that he hadn't been reporting his Thai assets as he should have been. He thinks they won't bother him because of the small amount and if they do make inquiries and audit him the penalties he might be subject to won't amount to much. An American Tax accountant I talked to in Bangkok (his name is Lanny--anyone know him?) felt that it could be a little more problematic than that. There is also a belief floating around the expat community I live in that there is a statute of limitations and if you have been filing your returns every year but haven't been declaring your Thai assets but include them on your 2013 return the IRS won't hold you accountable for your Thai assets held before the year 2010.

This is just some stuff I have heard and come across recently.

You wrote, "He thinks they won't bother him because of the small amount and if they do make inquiries and audit him the penalties he might be subject to won't amount to much."

The penalties for failure to file an FBAR are worse than tax penalties. Failing to file an FBAR can carry a civil penalty of $10,000 for each non-willful violation.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/06/04/fbar-penalties-when-will-irs-let-you-off-with-a-warning/

[mogandave]

Just make sure you're a registered Democrat and you should be okay.

If you're still worried, join the ACLU, and deduct the fee.

Audit? Fugetaboutit!

[thailiketoo]

Just make sure you're a registered Democrat and you should be okay.

If you're still worried, join the ACLU, and deduct the fee.

Audit? Fugetaboutit!

FBAR has nothing to do with an audit. It is not about taxes and the IRS. Or being a democrat or republican. Why do you post if you don't have any idea about what you are writing about?

[mogandave]

Just make sure you're a registered Democrat and you should be okay.

If you're still worried, join the ACLU, and deduct the fee.

Audit? Fugetaboutit!

FBAR has nothing to do with an audit. It is not about taxes and the IRS. Or being a democrat or republican. Why do you post if you don't have any idea about what you are writing about?

Get a grip Maynard, it was a joke.

I've been filing for years without issue.

[thailiketoo]

Just make sure you're a registered Democrat and you should be okay.

If you're still worried, join the ACLU, and deduct the fee.

Audit? Fugetaboutit!

FBAR has nothing to do with an audit. It is not about taxes and the IRS. Or being a democrat or republican. Why do you post if you don't have any idea about what you are writing about?

Get a grip Maynard, it was a joke.

I've been filing for years without issue.

A joke about a $10,000 fine when no tax is owed? A joke? $10,000 is serious cash to most. Why on earth would you make a joke in a thread that is being used for information about FBAR reporting? Beyond me. How old is FBAR? Why the democrat reference?

[wym]

I'm calling BS.

When no tax is owed, you're a joe citizen small beer money, you're not up to anything dodgy otherwise, and it's plausible that you honestly didn't know and are now sincerely making up for lost time and coming clean.

Show me ONE bit of evidence the gubmint comes down with a 10K sledgehammer.

Might happen won't say impossible but IMO very very rare, they really are after the intentional dodgers and specifically the bigger fish.

[thailiketoo]

I'm calling BS.

When no tax is owed, you're a joe citizen small beer money, you're not up to anything dodgy otherwise, and it's plausible that you honestly didn't know and are now sincerely making up for lost time and coming clean.

Show me ONE bit of evidence the gubmint comes down with a 10K sledgehammer.

Might happen won't say impossible but IMO very very rare, they really are after the intentional dodgers and specifically the bigger fish.

You are calling BS???? Who is asking??? Or tell it to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/06/04/fbar-penalties-when-will-irs-let-you-off-with-a-warning/

Read a little bit or talk to an American with some money in a Thai bank.

[wym]

I am an American who's had enough to qualify and didn't file in past years, gotten reliable advice from an ex IRS auditor who says given my other factors not to worry, as close to a guarantee as he could give.

And everything he's said is confirmed in that Forbes scare piece, so thanks for the warm and fuzzy reassurance.

Just go ahead and 'fess up, if you're a small player and/or didn't intend to evade odds are you'll be OK.

Putting it off another year definitely worsens those odds.

[thailiketoo]

I am an American who's had enough to qualify and didn't file in past years, gotten reliable advice from an ex IRS auditor who says given my other factors not to worry, as close to a guarantee as he could give.

And everything he's said is confirmed in that Forbes scare piece, so thanks for the warm and fuzzy reassurance.

Just go ahead and 'fess up, if you're a small player and/or didn't intend to evade odds are you'll be OK.

Putting it off another year definitely worsens those odds.

You strike me as an Aussie who was born in the USA but nevertheless. The Forbes article says, "All U.S. persons with foreign bank accounts must also file a Treasury Department Form, TD F 90-22.1—an FBAR by each June 30th for the preceding year. You must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of your foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the year." "Failing to file an FBAR can carry a civil penalty of $10,000 for each non-willful violation. But if your violation is found to be willful, the penalty is the greater of $100,000 or 50 percent of the amount in the account for each violation—and each year you didn’t file is a separate violation."

[phuketrichard]

FBAR in operation since 2004, ( they offered an amnesty for the first few years with no fines) Fines can klill u as if u are fined ur fined for each year u don't pay an past years as well

i file my 1040 ad m 2555 each year but have never filed FBAR

i make sure all my accounts never reach $10,000

Non-Willful Penalty

• Up to $10,000 for each negligent violation

• No Criminal Penalties Assessed

Willful Penalty

• Up to the greater of $100,000 or 50% of the amount in the account at the time of the violation

• Criminal Penalties of up to $250,000 or 5 years in jail or both

if you have 5 accounts that have not been reported for 5 years, there could be 25 separate penalties assessed. The penalty regime for violations after October 22, 2004

31 USC 5321(a)(5). For example, if the account balance is $6,000,000 the maximum penalty would be $3,000,000. However, for each year the FBAR is not filed the penalty can be imposed again. Therefore it is quite possible for the maximum FBAR penalty to be several times the balance in offshore accounts. An offshore account with a balance of only $15,000 could generate a penalty in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The IRS has issued so-called “mitigation guidelines” under which smaller accounts may qualify for reduced penalties.


If the holder of an offshore account can successfully convince the IRS that the failure to file the FBAR was not willful then the penalties would be limited to $10,000 per violation. However, the IRS takes the position that a separate violation occurs for each bank account that is not listed on the FBAR. So for example if an offshore bank account holder has 6 separate accounts the penalty would be $60,000

\

a bit off topic but an interesting read about how the US wants to control every aspect of an American life EVEN when they want give up being a US citizen,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html

Edited March 11, 2014 by phuketrichard

[55Jay]

FBAR in operation since 2004, ( they offered an amnesty for the first few years with no fines) Fines can klill u as if u are fined ur fined for each year u don't pay an past years as well

i file my 1040 ad m 2555 each year but have never filed FBAR

i make sure all my accounts never reach $10,000

Non-Willful Penalty

• Up to $10,000 for each negligent violation

• No Criminal Penalties Assessed

Willful Penalty

• Up to the greater of $100,000 or 50% of the amount in the account at the time of the violation

• Criminal Penalties of up to $250,000 or 5 years in jail or both

if you have 5 accounts that have not been reported for 5 years, there could be 25 separate penalties assessed. The penalty regime for violations after October 22, 2004

31 USC 5321(a)(5). For example, if the account balance is $6,000,000 the maximum penalty would be $3,000,000. However, for each year the FBAR is not filed the penalty can be imposed again. Therefore it is quite possible for the maximum FBAR penalty to be several times the balance in offshore accounts. An offshore account with a balance of only $15,000 could generate a penalty in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The IRS has issued so-called “mitigation guidelines” under which smaller accounts may qualify for reduced penalties.

If the holder of an offshore account can successfully convince the IRS that the failure to file the FBAR was not willful then the penalties would be limited to $10,000 per violation. However, the IRS takes the position that a separate violation occurs for each bank account that is not listed on the FBAR. So for example if an offshore bank account holder has 6 separate accounts the penalty would be $60,000

\

a bit off topic but an interesting read about how the US wants to control every aspect of an American life EVEN when they want give up being a US citizen,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html

Just curious, why are you averse to filing FBAR?

Edited March 11, 2014 by 55Jay

[phuketrichard]

The less the us government knows about me, where i am, what i do, what i have, the better i feel.

[thailiketoo]

i make sure all my accounts never reach $10,000

a bit off topic but an interesting read about how the US wants to control every aspect of an American life EVEN when they want give up being a US citizen,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html

BAR

Just curious, why are you averse to filing FBAR?

Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000.

[55Jay]

The less the us government knows about me, where i am, what i do, what i have, the better i feel.

Oh, OK, thanks. Sort of what I thought. I felt like that when I first became aware of FBAR, so I limited my accts to 9,XXX. Now it's more an inconvenience to do that than FBAR. The idea of it still pisses me off, don't get me wrong, but I decided not to let it inhibit me anymore.

Thanks for the response.

J

[55Jay]

i make sure all my accounts never reach $10,000

a bit off topic but an interesting read about how the US wants to control every aspect of an American life EVEN when they want give up being a US citizen,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html

BAR

Just curious, why are you averse to filing FBAR?

Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000.

Yeah, right. Source or link please.

[phuketrichard]

The less the us government knows about me, where i am, what i do, what i have, the better i feel.

Oh, OK, thanks. Sort of what I thought. I felt like that when I first became aware of FBAR, so I limited my accts to 9,XXX. Now it's more an inconvenience to do that than FBAR. The idea of it still pisses me off, don't get me wrong, but I decided not to let it inhibit me anymore.

Thanks for the response.

J

Since banks pay so little interest,

why leave it in there anyway as well

[mogandave]

If you work and you name is on an account at work, that account counts toward the $10k and must be reported as well, not just your own money.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mogandave]

The less the us government knows about me, where i am, what i do, what i have, the better i feel.

Oh, OK, thanks. Sort of what I thought. I felt like that when I first became aware of FBAR, so I limited my accts to 9,XXX. Now it's more an inconvenience to do that than FBAR. The idea of it still pisses me off, don't get me wrong, but I decided not to let it inhibit me anymore.

Thanks for the response.

J

Since banks pay so little interest,

why leave it in there anyway as well

Then wherecdo you keep it?

Banks here pay about 3-4%, that's not too bad.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app