Chronic/Acute Renal Failure - Anyone else?

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My Thai dog has recently been diagnosed with first, the vet told me acute, then a week later chronic renal failure. He's a bit long in the tooth - an adopted dog so not sure of exact age, vet thinks over ten years old, but very active.

I'd noticed him throwing up only the kibble in his otherwise home made diet, so stopped adding it and he was fine, for a week. Back to vet, she advised to give him a supplement of calcium, magnesium, zinc tablet every day. I feed him fresh grilled sardines and baked chicken mixed with a little rice, so none of that commercial crap and NO sodium. That Science Diet's a rip off your dog will not eat BTW.

He's now upchucking the entire ONE of two meals I give him each day. First it was white bile, now this.

The vet had said there was a pill (she didn't name) which couldn't be crushed, shaped like a long paracetamol, around 40 baht a tab, which may, or may not, alleviate his condition, and suggested I just keep to the supplement.

Has anyone had any experience with this and their dogs? I ask because there's so much confusing information, including from various vets, one suggested an anti vomit med, but that's only good short term.

Thanks

[DogNo1]

Are you confident of the diagnosis? I'm not a doctor but I suspect some other problems besides renal failure.

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Are you confident of the diagnosis? I'm not a doctor but I suspect some other problems besides renal failure.

Positively. Had exact same symptoms with another dog - his was genetic, so nothing could be done. However, this dog's renal failure - high creatine count - can maybe be 'controlled', to what extent I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking for others' experience. Dogs' life expectancy is determined by organ (kidney) failure, humans - heart.

These pills are for hypertension which is a side effect of kidney disease. Has anyone used them. Did they work?

[Sheryl]

I am not aware of any medication which can be sued to cure or reverse renal failure. If the dog is hypertensive, that can be controlled, but that's about it.

Chronic renal failure in both dogs and cats is ultimately a fatal prognosis though supportive care can extend life by months or sometimes year. The main stays of management are diet and fluid management.

This is a good source http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/urinary/c_multi_renal_failure_chronic?page=2#.UqG4uY1yWlw

[Cuban]

Sorry if this is harsh reading, please also do your own research on this matter.

Dogs are designed by nature to gain sustenance from digesting small animals of prey (rabbits/chickens) that they eat raw as meat taken from any larger animal that they might scavenge from like a Hyena might in Africa. That dogs are domesticated over the thousands of years in our shared history will have shared the remains of human meals, and typically this would have been soups/stews etc.

Look at a dogs teeth an function of the jaw - this is not designed to crush & grind fruits and grains. Their teeth are for meat, ripping it from bone and then crushing the bones into smaller pieces with their shaped molars designed for the purpose. Google BARF.

All dried kibble based "food" is made mostly from blood from slaughtered chickens/ducks padded out with low grade broken rice and corn etc. whatever is the cheapest cereal at that time with added bone powder. It is baked for a long shelf-life and then sprayed with fat before bagging to ensure that dogs are fooled into thinking it is food.

Although every packet of kibble carries marketing blurb about "balanced diets" and providing dogs with water with their meal this is rubbish. The pet "food" is indeed the rubbish by-products from the human food industry - that they make a fortune selling it a marketing miracle.

Kidney diseases in pets is most commonly seen where they have been trained to eat a dry based diet - this puts the kidneys under extra pressure as the animal does not get enough water in their diet. Kidney illness in cats is much more common as their natural diet (mice etc) provide lots of water and cat are less naturally motivated to drink compared to dogs. But with dogs they are driven 70-80% by smell. The "fresh" water you might draw from a tap and offer to a dog will often be rejected as it smells of chemicals to their sensitive noses. have you never wondered why a dog will prefer to drink from a river or pond? We have a barrel to allow water to stand a few days and loose it's chemical odour before giving to the dogs.

Lightly cooked fish flesh is fine, any form of cooked bone is bad. Cooked fish bones are really bad - the same as feeding needles.

The same with chicken, raw (yes bones as well) is fine, for a dog new to raw food you can dip it is boiling water for a10 seconds to develop the cooked smell they they might have become used to - but raw chicken served at room temperature is our dogs main diet.

Their coat looks like polished wood after including a raw mackerel in their diet each week too, just cut off the dorsal spine.

While a dog is sick the desire to eat is simply not there so smaller potions is wise.

Finding what works on a particular day can be trial and error but bear in mind that a bad sickness reaction one day after eating say lightly warmed chicken might cause the dog to reject that food the next day through association. Humans are the same when ill through bad mussels they will not want to "risk it" again for a while.

The absolute bed food from a dog's point of view is a shared meal from the boss, so make some bacon sandwiches for yourself, with some etc cooked bacon that you give to your dog from your plate and you would share a meal with a friend. Not only does cooked bacon trigger the "lovely food" button but it is also the boss's shared food which is high value in itself.

Like humans dogs do taste and seek sugar, so a small amount can work as an energy boost for a dog that is not eating much.

Easy to eat foods like a rice porridge/Congee with lightly cooked eggs provides something for the stomach to work with that is not too fatty (avoid increasing bile in the stomach) and carries protein. A cod liver oil capsule can stimulate appetite without bringing too much fat/oil to the meal.

There is no need to use supplements in any diet that provides the right stuff in the first place, chicken bones and joints provide all the calcium, zinc and magnesium along with glucosamine.

Part of recovery is not having to over tax the body with a full stomach.

Clean "not smelly" water and food served at room or slightly above room-temperature is what dogs like, raw chicken straight from the fridge smells like nothing so will be ignored.

Good luck.

[jpeg]

Sorry if this is harsh reading, please also do your own research on this matter.

Dogs are designed by nature to gain sustenance from digesting small animals of prey (rabbits/chickens) that they eat raw as meat taken from any larger animal that they might scavenge from like a Hyena might in Africa. That dogs are domesticated over the thousands of years in our shared history will have shared the remains of human meals, and typically this would have been soups/stews etc.

Look at a dogs teeth an function of the jaw - this is not designed to crush & grind fruits and grains. Their teeth are for meat, ripping it from bone and then crushing the bones into smaller pieces with their shaped molars designed for the purpose. Google BARF.

All dried kibble based "food" is made mostly from blood from slaughtered chickens/ducks padded out with low grade broken rice and corn etc. whatever is the cheapest cereal at that time with added bone powder. It is baked for a long shelf-life and then sprayed with fat before bagging to ensure that dogs are fooled into thinking it is food.

Although every packet of kibble carries marketing blurb about "balanced diets" and providing dogs with water with their meal this is rubbish. The pet "food" is indeed the rubbish by-products from the human food industry - that they make a fortune selling it a marketing miracle.

Kidney diseases in pets is most commonly seen where they have been trained to eat a dry based diet - this puts the kidneys under extra pressure as the animal does not get enough water in their diet. Kidney illness in cats is much more common as their natural diet (mice etc) provide lots of water and cat are less naturally motivated to drink compared to dogs. But with dogs they are driven 70-80% by smell. The "fresh" water you might draw from a tap and offer to a dog will often be rejected as it smells of chemicals to their sensitive noses. have you never wondered why a dog will prefer to drink from a river or pond? We have a barrel to allow water to stand a few days and loose it's chemical odour before giving to the dogs.

Lightly cooked fish flesh is fine, any form of cooked bone is bad. Cooked fish bones are really bad - the same as feeding needles.

The same with chicken, raw (yes bones as well) is fine, for a dog new to raw food you can dip it is boiling water for a10 seconds to develop the cooked smell they they might have become used to - but raw chicken served at room temperature is our dogs main diet.

Their coat looks like polished wood after including a raw mackerel in their diet each week too, just cut off the dorsal spine.

While a dog is sick the desire to eat is simply not there so smaller potions is wise.

Finding what works on a particular day can be trial and error but bear in mind that a bad sickness reaction one day after eating say lightly warmed chicken might cause the dog to reject that food the next day through association. Humans are the same when ill through bad mussels they will not want to "risk it" again for a while.

The absolute bed food from a dog's point of view is a shared meal from the boss, so make some bacon sandwiches for yourself, with some etc cooked bacon that you give to your dog from your plate and you would share a meal with a friend. Not only does cooked bacon trigger the "lovely food" button but it is also the boss's shared food which is high value in itself.

Like humans dogs do taste and seek sugar, so a small amount can work as an energy boost for a dog that is not eating much.

Easy to eat foods like a rice porridge/Congee with lightly cooked eggs provides something for the stomach to work with that is not too fatty (avoid increasing bile in the stomach) and carries protein. A cod liver oil capsule can stimulate appetite without bringing too much fat/oil to the meal.

There is no need to use supplements in any diet that provides the right stuff in the first place, chicken bones and joints provide all the calcium, zinc and magnesium along with glucosamine.

Part of recovery is not having to over tax the body with a full stomach.

Clean "not smelly" water and food served at room or slightly above room-temperature is what dogs like, raw chicken straight from the fridge smells like nothing so will be ignored.

Good luck.

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I agree that if given the right diet the animal shouldn't need supplements. (The bacon sandwich thing would be out - I don't eat meat), but he seems to have stabilised on foil wrapped baked chicken leg for dinner with rice and grilled sardine with rice for breakfast I hear what you say about raw food, but he simply wouldn't touch it, so am keeping with the smaller portions as you suggested, of cooked. I had noticed his tendency to throw up anything too large.

I had read that dogs need a moist diet, I leave out lots of tap water - it's from my well, so no chemicals. They drink from watered pots also.

I'll give the hypertension meds a miss then. Thanks again.

PS I have mentioned to other dog owners about the importance of a good diet (home made) since all this, prevention being better than cure. A neighbour was giving his English Bulldog only kibble and had been told by a vet it was 'the food causing skin lesions', wonder why

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Just to add, after doing a lot of research, have found that magnesium not recommended for renal failure, even though the vet's supplements had magnesium in it

Also, forgot to mention, dog's not throwing up food, but there is still a lot of white coloured bile. I've looked up antacids anything with magnesium of course not recommended, but aluminium hydroxide (in powder form) can help. Vet seems clueless on this.

Azodyl is recommended, ever heard of it? Thanks.

Edited December 9, 2013 by jpeg