Racism against Filipinos - is there a legal limit?

[tesolguru]

I would like some general info from the teachers here in Thailand regarding discrimination against Filipino teachers. Is it everywhere, should it be expected, and what rights to those teachers have? (no, I'm not a Filipino).

This is stemming from several friends I have who are working for the *(Name edited out) * in Nakhon Ratchasima. First of all they get paid roughly half of other foreigners regardless of whether they are higher or equally qualified. It also specifically says in their contract that they will get x,000 baht per month for housing allowance, but a teacher who has lived off campus for more than one year has never received the money. If they stay in the school housing, they are forced to live 3 to 4 per apartment, while other foreigners get individual rooms. Last semester the teachers were asked to complete student workbooks to make it look like students had done the work. The foreign teachers refused, so the Filipinos were ordered to complete not only their own class workbooks, but also for the classes of all the other foreign teachers. Recently they were told that they should not be mixing with other white foreigners because they are "only Asian".

Where I come from this would be grounds for instant dismissal, so I am trying to find out if this is normal and / or expected here. I am also hoping that this is not the norm for *(Name edited out)* schools and that the main headquarters have no idea these practices are taking place, but the teachers are powerless to do anything themselves, so I'm just trying to find out as much as I can. Thank you for your feedback.

[Briggsy]

If they are not paid their contractually-stipulated housing allowance, they can make a complaint at the Labour Department.

[chuang]

You mean Filipino teachers are paid less than farang teachers....then something is not right, farangs here always complained about the double standard in thailand...paying more for these and that than the locals...strange....

[jdinasia]

Briggsy is correct. Out of the complaints you listed only the one governing wages appears to be actionable in labor court.

[arthurwait]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

[eldragon]

Sadly, this is pretty normal here. The unfortunate thing is the Filipino teachers I've worked with in the past gernerally seemed more motivated and better educated than the white foreigners. And when it comes to English language, they are in many ways better teachers, having learned it themselves as a second language.

The lone experience I had teaching at a government school was fairly straightforward most days. But even as a white native English speaker I was asked to engage in some dodgy behavior now and then. I gave up teaching after that, but still hear shady stories from my old co-workers.

[Aussieroaming]

Keep in in perspective.

The farang teacher might get twice what he would earn in his home country. The Philo get paid crap compared to the farang teacher but gets twice what he would earn in the Philippines (estimate only). This isn't a localized phenomenon, in our industry we pay Thai guys similarly when they are overseas. They get paid more than the local, less than us but two or three times better than they would at home. Its just a relative adjustment to their home country average wage. No rascism involved, so don't rock the boat on their behalf cos if they lose their job they wont be thanking you for that.

If they weren't doing better than they would be at home they wouldn't be there.

[Fookhaht]

Keep in in perspective.

The farang teacher might get twice what he would earn in his home country.

Are you sure that's what you mean?

I was paid over $6000 a month in my home country. Here, I am paid $1000 a month. That's more the norm.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Fookhaht

[Aussieroaming]

Keep in in perspective.

The farang teacher might get twice what he would earn in his home country.

Are you sure that's what you mean?

I was paid over $6000 a month in my home country. Here, I am paid $1000 a month. That's more the norm.

Ok I stand corrected....let me say that's the case in my industry not yours. But the point being I don't believe it racism, its just economics at work and the Filipinos aren't working in Thailand for love, they have usually have too much family obligation back in the Phils. That's only my view after working there.

[thailandbeachisland]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from...

They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

[lemoncake]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Hate to say but i agree. I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time, for some unknown reason they think they are worth double to what Thai get and yet no relevant skills

Keep in mind their salaries back home are half to what Thai get here(exchange rate)

[ToddWeston]

When my youngest nephew came home from school and said he wanted me to rent "buppy and da bamfire" I knew we had a problem.

[tesolguru]

The Filipinos in question had equal to or surpassing qualifications than that of the other foreigners. At the school where I teach the pay is based on qualification, not the country of origin. The Filipino teachers with a M.A. degree get exactly the same pay as I do. And no, Filipino teachers here do not get 2x what they would in the Philippines - they get the same as the govt. standardized pay in the Philippines.

Edited December 7, 2013 by tesolguru

[rgs2001uk]

Where I come from this would be grounds for instant dismissal,

Well thankfully we are in Thailand, not elsewhere, maybe your friends should seek employment where you come from.

This is stemming from several friends I have

So why dont your "friends" do something about it instead.

If the pay is insufficient perhaps they could put an ad in the employment section here in TV and seek employment as a maid at an inflated salary, or join the charity scammers working in Pattaya.

Seen it all before, some think because they speak English (badly and heavily accented) they should somehow earn a western salary.

[Scott]

Since this is related to teaching, I will move it to the teaching forum.

Also, the name of the school has been edited out. For legal reasons, we do not allow the name to be mentioned. Name and shame is not permitted.

[tesolguru]

Where I come from this would be grounds for instant dismissal,

Well thankfully we are in Thailand, not elsewhere, maybe your friends should seek employment where you come from.

This is stemming from several friends I have

So why dont your "friends" do something about it instead.

If the pay is insufficient perhaps they could put an ad in the employment section here in TV and seek employment as a maid at an inflated salary, or join the charity scammers working in Pattaya.

Seen it all before, some think because they speak English (badly and heavily accented) they should somehow earn a western salary.

If you noticed, my friends are not complaining - I am They expect this and therefore put up with it. BUT, if my school were to ever tell the Filipino teachers that they should not associate with me because they are Asian and I'm a farang, it will be the last day I work for that school.

[Scott]

Racism is not against the law in Thailand. For a lot of schools, salary is based on your country of origin and in some cases that may be mitigated by how dark your skin color is. I know Asian teachers born in the US who are paid significantly less that a 'white' teacher born in a non-native English speaking country.

Regarding the housing allowance, there are a few circumstances which may mitigate whether you are given the housing or not. First, if the school, or employer offers to provide you with housing but you refuse, you are not entitled to housing. So, if you chose to live outside of the school housing, you don't get the allowance. If the school (or employer) can't accommodate you, then you do. For example, if you are married and living with your family, the school will usually pay you housing, if you have a child, they will not allow you to live in the housing and you get the housing allowance.

[risky11]

Wow, I see anti-Filipino sentiment is widespread. I will side with the OP. Apparently the white foreigners are more highly valued by the employer. They really don't care if they lose the services of the Filipinos. It's a shame they are treated unfairly, but that is life. They can ask the govt to help them, but that will probably backfire and they will be fired. It's a matter of "take it or leave it." Since I am a white male living in the Feminist USA, I know this feeling well.

[culicine]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

Apart from that their classroom control is next to non-existent. This is almost universal across 95% of teachers in the 13 years I've been teaching here. Kids don;t learn a lot in their classes because of lack of control.

Let's not get too carried away with their BEd degrees either. They would not be qualified t work in any western country, so not much point in saying they are more qualified than your average westerner with a degree.

[SOTIRIOS]

Keep in in perspective.

The farang teacher might get twice what he would earn in his home country.

Are you sure that's what you mean?

I was paid over $6000 a month in my home country. Here, I am paid $1000 a month. That's more the norm.

....the average salary in their home country is 3000 baht per month...

...furthermore...phony diplomas are the order of the day....

[belg]

enjoy while you can mister white man

soon chinese english teacher might invade the market and take away your big salary

[kirk0233]

I worked with many Filipinos when I taught at a bilingual private school. They were paid less than native "teachers", but seemed more dedicated with higher qualifications than most of the native teachers there. For the purposes of most bilingual schools - entertaining the students and making sure the workbook is completely filled in they were fine.

[bangon04]

The Filipinos in question had equal to or surpassing qualifications than that of the other foreigners. At the school where I teach the pay is based on qualification, not the country of origin. The Filipino teachers with a M.A. degree get exactly the same pay as I do. And no, Filipino teachers here do not get 2x what they would in the Philippines - they get the same as the govt. standardized pay in the Philippines.

Sorry to burst your bubble but where I come from any Filipino "qualification" is viewed with derision firstly, then through a magnifying glass secondly.

Filipino "Doctors" have to retrain as auxiliary nurses, and recently there was a discussion about invalidating the "seamanship qualifications" of Filipinos working around the world.

It is highly debatable whether an MA from the Philippines is worth the same as an MA from Thailand. (probably they are both equal in terms of worldwide prestige...) In any case both countries are not famous for the rule of employment protection law....

[rotary]

Not sure about the teaching profession but international it is pretty standard to pay different salary for an "Expat"(the old definition was a person who's mother tongue was English-I have saw this written in contracts but now in general means folks with a passport from major European countries or North America) was versus a TCN( Third country national) vs a National (person from the country the job is in). I am not defending the practice but it is common in most international industries. The idea behind this is that both should have the same living standard in their home country. As an example the Expat from country "A" might have a normal home cost of $50,000 where the "TCN" might have a cost of $10,000. Food cost are also different so all this is taken into the salary cost in some industries. In the end they should make a salary that allows equal living standards in the home country.

Again not defending the practice but simply stating it is common and the thought process it comes from.

[thequietman]

True. Fillipino's start their degree at age 16 and have their masters completed by 21 years old. Their degrees, like Thai's, are not on the same level as foreign degrees, from say, the UK or America. A Thai BA is compared to 'O' levels in the UK and a degree from the Philipines is on a similar level. Also, it is very difficult to understand them in the classroom. Thai students do complain and it really takes something special for a Thai student to complain !

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

Apart from that their classroom control is next to non-existent. This is almost universal across 95% of teachers in the 13 years I've been teaching here. Kids don;t learn a lot in their classes because of lack of control.

Let's not get too carried away with their BEd degrees either. They would not be qualified t work in any western country, so not much point in saying they are more qualified than your average westerner with a degree.

[rotary]

enjoy while you can mister white man

soon chinese english teacher might invade the market and take away your big salary

I have no horse in the race but.............don't most advertisement's for English teachers jobs say "Native English Speakers" or "Mother Tongue Must Be English"?

Now I can see how some Filipinos could be considered Native English speakers.

I have never seen a Chinese English speaker that I would consider close to being a Native English Speaker other than a few on major TV networks and my guess is they were educated from birth in the western world.

I have literally worked with 100s of Filipinos and Chinese in my job, which is not teaching, so I think I have a pretty good knowledge on their language abilities in general.

[ToddWeston]

It not only happens here, I brought a few Filipinos into Canada under the skilled worker programme. In the end their BSc was the rated as Grade 12, because of licence and immigration rules they were temporarily allowed to continue to practice after a 2 year stint in a local university, all of mine failed. They were paid $22 an hour vs a local hire who could go as high as $100 as a relief pharmacist.

[bangon04]

It not only happens here, I brought a few Filipinos into Canada under the skilled worker programme. In the end their BSc was the rated as Grade 12, because of licence and immigration rules they were temporarily allowed to continue to practice after a 2 year stint in a local university, all of mine failed. They were paid $22 an hour vs a local hire who could go as high as $100 as a relief pharmacist.

Just like the rich families in Thailand, the rich Filipinos get their kids educated overseas. Not difficult to see why...

[Leung Falang]

Native English speakers such as US, UK, Australia, New Zealand are paid about 30,000-38,000 baht per month, while non-native English speakers such as Filipino, Indian, Pakistani, Africa many countries, are paid 17,000 or so per month. Some friends have agents and some go direct which can make a big difference in wages and perks.

[jdinasia]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Hate to say but i agree. I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time, for some unknown reason they think they are worth double to what Thai get and yet no relevant skills

Keep in mind their salaries back home are half to what Thai get here(exchange rate)

In jobs other than reporting or teaching there is a minimum wage per nationality. The wage for US/UK is 50k a monthm the wage for Filipinos is 35k a month.