Gays and Promiscuity

[LeCharivari]

I don't think anyone's not as good as me - just not as fortunate.

[onthemoon]

I couldn't be with someone as jealous as your husband. But people are different, and that's OK

Onthemoon,

You need to accept that we, people who are not married, and not in long term relationships, are not good members of gay community.

We are promiscous, no good sluts, who give nice and loving, commited gay peeps bad name.

In order to be a good gay man, you need to be handcuffed, i mean married, to one guy for 25 years.

Less than that, and you are a bad gay person. Not only hated by homophobes, but also by gay dudes who happen to be in relationship, and think you are not as good as they are

No, I said no such thing. What makes you think that?

[onthemoon]

Some very long postings here. Have we defined yet what 'promiscuous' means? We learned that there is a measurement problem: Number of sexual encounters vs number of sex partners. Does it make a difference whether the subject is in a relationship? What is a relationship? When you've known each other for 3 hours or 3 weeks or 3 years? Or only when you are married or monogamous? So many questions. Sent from my I-405 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It doesn't really matter what "definitions" you use or what "questions" you ask as long as you are CONSISTENT - in other words you apply the same definitions and ask the same questions of samples selected in the same way.

If you don't differentiate between a mean and a median average and one sample is based on those cruising singles bars, saunas, parks and public toilets while another is based on a computer generated randomly selected sample any conclusions drawn are questionable, at best.

In order to discuss promiscuity, we need to agree on a definition. If I am consistent in my argumentation and you are consistent in yours, we might be talking about different things and the discussion becomes useless.

[onthemoon]

But people are different, and that's OK.

There you go. That's probably what you meant to say without insulting other posters...

When did I insult anybody? If I did, I didn't mean to. To the contrary, as evidenced by the sentence you quoted.

[Scott]

There are a lot of terms that need to be agreed upon to come up with statistically valid information on the issue. What constitutes sexual contact? What constitutes gay? Do MSM count? Many of the studies cited earlier were not specific to gay people and the wording of the questions may not fit. If you ask about how many relationships someone has had in the past year, the answer might be different from sexual encounters.

Due to a busy schedule, I haven’t had time to respond very thoroughly to this topic. First of all, the statistics sited come from a report by The Guardian and are derived from information the dating site OKCupid. OKCupid is not a gay dating site and doesn’t even rank among the top 3 dating sites. The top 3 gay sites are: Match.com, Manhunt.net and Planetout.com. The information derived is very far from a scientific study and data derived about gays do not meet any standard of statistical validity.

People using a dating site may be very different in their sexual activity than people who do not. Even so, this study does point to a higher level of promiscuity. The increase that you site as being attributable to 2% of the gay population may not be correct. According to another source, it is 13%:

My conclusion, then, is that (according to the GSS data) there is a segment of gay men (roughly 13% of the total of gay men) who are promiscuous to a degree that straight men are not.

http://humbumbershoot.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/are-gay-men-more-promiscuous-than-straight-men-analyzing-research-results/

Please note that the comparison rules out married men. If married men were included the statistical difference would likely be quite different. In that same study single gay and straight men track fairly close in the number of partners, but again gay men do have more sexual partners than straight men.

There are studies which specifically look at gays rather than gleaning information from general data. Most of those show a higher level of sexual partners than their straight counterparts.

In the New England Journal of Science article, the statistics were derived from a sample of “of men who had homosexual contact after the age of 20.” Including all men, rather than gay men, would skew the statistics, unless all men who have homosexual contact over the age of 20 are considered as gay.

The overall information points to the fact that gays have had more sexual partners than straight men. The difference seems to be in the degree. Gay men may not be as promiscuous as many think, but they are never-the-less more promiscuous than their straight counterparts.

[circusman]

The problem you have here is that for every study that says gays are more promiscuous than straight people, some other study will say straights are more promiscuous..

Having spent time as a straight guy with the gay population in a large city in the UK from an early age and even now in my early 50's I've talked to many gay people who openly admit to being promiscuous, and I've talked to many straight people who admit the same, then you get the ones who say their not..

Who's right and who's wrong on this, I don't have the answer, do all tell the truth when participating in studies, I doubt not..

I just have the attitude of do what you want in life as long as your not hurting others....

Your not gay but your friends are....hummmm.

[wilcopops]

when it comes to Gay rights etc the media and consequently most people are obsessed with the sexual implications of being gay, rather than being gay itself. The result is that the general perception of homosexual people is that they are more promiscuous than heterosexual people. Thai Visa members seem in general to be remarkably uncritical of what they see or read so it would be fair to assume that it is the prevailing perception on this site.

[Alwyn]

I lived in Toronto on Churc and Wellesly, other than San Fransisco, I dont think there is more clearly defined gay ghetto in NA.

For few years that I lived in the area, I had sex several times a day. Mind you never was in relationship at the time, so maybe this doesnt count as being promiscous.

There was a bathhouse, Spa On Maitland, i was there sometimes 72 hrs straight, i knew staff, they let me leave to get fast food, and come back in.

I dont think it is possible for a straight guy to have sex 4, maybe more times a day, unless he pays for it.

In the Spa, I saw guys who were in long term relationships, guys who i knew, they were doing the same thing, except they checked out after they got layed, so they could get home on time.

Sent from my C6903 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They "let you leave to get fast food"? So you were imprisoned, raped, raping, allowed to leave for food and went back, is that what you're saying?

[Alwyn]

I like all the stats but the truth of the matter is that 63.7% of all statistics are made up..

[anon8]

I couldn't be with someone as jealous as your husband. But people are different, and that's OK

Onthemoon,

You need to accept that we, people who are not married, and not in long term relationships, are not good members of gay community.

We are promiscous, no good sluts, who give nice and loving, commited gay peeps bad name.

In order to be a good gay man, you need to be handcuffed, i mean married, to one guy for 25 years.

Less than that, and you are a bad gay person. Not only hated by homophobes, but also by gay dudes who happen to be in relationship, and think you are not as good as they are

No, I said no such thing. What makes you think that?

Onthemoon, my post was not directed at you at all, I know you never said such thing.

But many gay people who are in long term relationships say it, I can't be sure if they actually believe that, or do they say it in order to feel superior to gay person who is single, and prefers short term, 1hr commitments.

Again, my post had nothing to do with your post, onthemoon!

[abhaya]

Men being men are by nature more promiscuous. That is if women let men shag them as much as men wanted to, straights would be viewed just as promiscuos. Since they don't, having to take into consideration the more serious fallout of casual affairs (like babies) have to be more thoughtful about sex than guys. The gay women I know are pretty monogamous, so it is not surprising to me that gay men are viewed as prosmiscuous.

[wilcopops]

There are a lot of terms that need to be agreed upon to come up with statistically valid information on the issue. What constitutes sexual contact? What constitutes gay? Do MSM count? Many of the studies cited earlier were not specific to gay people and the wording of the questions may not fit. If you ask about how many relationships someone has had in the past year, the answer might be different from sexual encounters.

Due to a busy schedule, I haven’t had time to respond very thoroughly to this topic. First of all, the statistics sited come from a report by The Guardian and are derived from information the dating site OKCupid. OKCupid is not a gay dating site and doesn’t even rank among the top 3 dating sites. The top 3 gay sites are: Match.com, Manhunt.net and Planetout.com. The information derived is very far from a scientific study and data derived about gays do not meet any standard of statistical validity.

People using a dating site may be very different in their sexual activity than people who do not. Even so, this study does point to a higher level of promiscuity. The increase that you site as being attributable to 2% of the gay population may not be correct. According to another source, it is 13%:

My conclusion, then, is that (according to the GSS data) there is a segment of gay men (roughly 13% of the total of gay men) who are promiscuous to a degree that straight men are not.

http://humbumbershoot.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/are-gay-men-more-promiscuous-than-straight-men-analyzing-research-results/

Please note that the comparison rules out married men. If married men were included the statistical difference would likely be quite different. In that same study single gay and straight men track fairly close in the number of partners, but again gay men do have more sexual partners than straight men.

There are studies which specifically look at gays rather than gleaning information from general data. Most of those show a higher level of sexual partners than their straight counterparts.

In the New England Journal of Science article, the statistics were derived from a sample of “of men who had homosexual contact after the age of 20.” Including all men, rather than gay men, would skew the statistics, unless all men who have homosexual contact over the age of 20 are considered as gay.

The overall information points to the fact that gays have had more sexual partners than straight men. The difference seems to be in the degree. Gay men may not be as promiscuous as many think, but they are never-the-less more promiscuous than their straight counterparts.

Yet again a mod expressing opinions which are ill-researched. The New England journal does NOT back up your conclusion.......

Edited January 4, 2014 by wilcopops

[bonobo]

According to studies I read in the book, Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women, by Anne Moir, gay males do have more sexual partners, on average, then straight males. Her take on it is that males are more promiscuous than women, and as such, women act as a governor, so-to-speak, on straight males, keeping down their number of sexual partners, whereas gay males, having other males as potential partners, males who share the same proclivity for promiscuity, have much more opportunity to engage in sex with different partners.

I read here in this thread that some studies show that gay and straight males have the same number of partners, but with regards to the studies quoted in the book, her theory on the whys to that sure make sense to me. As a straight male who has what I consider a normal desire for promiscuity, I've often envied my gay friends who seem to have an easier time finding desirable hook ups.

[Scott]

Yet again a mod expressing opinions which are ill-researched. The New England journal does NOT back up your conclusion.......

The New England Journal of Medicine has already been discussed. I don't know that the New England Journal of Medicine is a good source of information on gay sex.

They don't study gay sex, per se, and there interest in gay sex is with regard to medical implications. They also look at excluding gays from some studies.

[squarethecircle]

Im sure you can find studies going either way, but the common sense/stereotype/word of mouth knowledge is that men are aggressive in spreading their seed, while women are like gate keepers for their eggs. It is no surprise then that men, without the balancing influence of a female, might run wild, so to say. Of course no judgements implied but I think the stereotype holds true (even ignoring the obvious biases such as the tendency of more visible and self identified gays to be flashy and put their sexuality right out front). My 2 satang anyways.

[Docno]

What a discussion. I don't have any scientific facts, but all the men I know (guy or straight) like sex.

The straight guys have the problem that they need to find women that think likewise. Not being sexist, I understand that women in general think differently about sex than men do.

My experience with women (I mean by talking to them) and straight guys says that women are less inclined to have casual sex than men. There are always exceptions though.

When two men, both liking men, meet each other in venues that allow (legally or not) casual sex, it follows that gay men have more casual sex than straight men (well, unless they are well-off and pay for it) and than women.

(Of course, I am taking prostitutes out of the equation for argument's sake. That would be a different discussion.)

'When two men, both liking men, meet each other in venues that allow (legally or not) casual sex, it follows that gay men have more casual sex than straight men (well, unless they are well-off and pay for it) and than women."

You seem to be making the assumption that "women" (except for a few "exceptions") don't "like sex" as much as men!

I'm tempted to just say "bizarre" and leave it at that, but I think you need to do a little more homework.

This thread, as I've said, is NOT about whether men or women are more promiscuous, but since you seem to be saying that gay and straight men are potentially equally promiscuous but gays have more sex because there's more available then I suppose it has some relevance so I'll reply but ONLY (and I do mean ONLY as anything more will be going totally off topic) in that context:

Try reading the following link, which I have already given:

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/promiscuity-differs-by-gender

As you correctly say "women in general think differently about sex than men do", but its not because they want less sex, its because they are more fussy about who they have it with. To paraphrase the study, men will sleep with anyone, and the less intelligent the better, while women are more selective. .... Women have as much casual sex, but not with so many men - lucky for some men but unlucky for most, which is probably why some of the latter assume that because they are turned down regularly so is everyone else.

If gay men are as unselective with their partners as straight men are with theirs, therefore, very few are going to be turned down (particularly the "dumb-blonde" male) and gay men will have more partners (but not necessarily more actual sex) than women (or most straight men).

"What we found is that when men opt for short-term mating, they pursue larger numbers of partners than women," Schmitt says. "When women go short-term mating, they don't go for large numbers. They are a little more discriminating. .....Men's preference for intelligence in short-term mates drops off the scale ..... If you look at what men want in a short-term mating partner, a sexual partner as opposed to a marriage partner, they prefer below-average intelligence." These different desires hold true regardless of whether women or men are married or single, heterosexual or homosexual. And they hold true across six continents.

I have given other links, as below, but they only go into the numerical similarities/differences between men and women, and don't go into the "reasons why", as above, which makes it all credible and understandable.

http://metro.co.uk/2008/12/09/young-women-more-promiscuous-than-men-224152/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1093011/Women-far-promiscuous-men-says-shock-new-study.html /

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/5213956/Men-are-no-more-promiscuous-than-women-survey-finds.html

I should emphasise that although there are references to the More magazine survey, which is much easier reading but not so important, the far more important survey referred to was from on an earlier far wider and well researched US study - the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, by RAND Corporation, for the American Academy of Pediatrics ( http://www.rand.org/pubs/external_publications/EP20081103.html )

What do you mean by the bolded statement in this quote:

As you correctly say "women in general think differently about sex than men do", but its not because they want less sex, its because they are more fussy about who they have it with. To paraphrase the study, men will sleep with anyone, and the less intelligent the better, while women are more selective. .... Women have as much casual sex, but not with so many men - lucky for some men but unlucky for most, which is probably why some of the latter assume that because they are turned down regularly so is everyone else. If gay men are as unselective with their partners as straight men are with theirs, therefore, very few are going to be turned down (particularly the "dumb-blonde" male) and gay men will have more partners (but not necessarily more actual sex) than women (or most straight men)."

It can only mean that they're having the same frequency of sex, but with fewer partners, i.e., women are having more 'serial sex' with the same guy (i.e., fewer one night stands). So does this still count as casual sex?

From an evolutionary perspective, there's no reason for a men to actually prefer less intelligent women as casual sex partners. They simply should not care about the intelligence of their short-term partners as much as women. Now, some may report that they go after more gullible women for a quick thrash about in bed, but we know from a lot of other research that our self-reported motivations are often quite disconnected from our actual behaviour.

So we go back to the (I believe valid) arguments others have made:

1. Men will be, on average, more promiscuous than women (in terms of number of partners in a lifetime)
2. Men will be, on average, less choosy than women about the quality of their sexual partners for casual sex
3. Therefore gay men should have greater opportunities for casual sex (both 'sides' in the arrangement have fewer barriers than women)
4. But gay women should have less casual sex (be more long-term oriented) than straight or gay men

None of this has anything to do with women liking sex less (or more) than men but rather with the difference in the 'cost' of pregnancy (not financial) to the two genders.

[Fullstop]

Men are hornier then women. They'd bonk a hole in a tree. Male gays are the same. Stronger sex drive. It's only natural they are going to be male sl*ts.

And good luck to them.

I'm jealous!

[onthemoon]

According to studies I read in the book, Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women, by Anne Moir, gay males do have more sexual partners, on average, then straight males. Her take on it is that males are more promiscuous than women, and as such, women act as a governor, so-to-speak, on straight males, keeping down their number of sexual partners, whereas gay males, having other males as potential partners, males who share the same proclivity for promiscuity, have much more opportunity to engage in sex with different partners.

I read here in this thread that some studies show that gay and straight males have the same number of partners, but with regards to the studies quoted in the book, her theory on the whys to that sure make sense to me. As a straight male who has what I consider a normal desire for promiscuity, I've often envied my gay friends who seem to have an easier time finding desirable hook ups.

This is my theory too: Men are more promiscuous by nature than women, but straight men don't have the possibility to live out their phantasies as much as gay men do.

I have no academic reference though.

[Jingthing]

Men are hornier then women. They'd bonk a hole in a tree. Male gays are the same. Stronger sex drive. It's only natural they are going to be male sl*ts.

And good luck to them.

I'm jealous!

I'm not sure how much sluttier gay men are compared to straight men but I suggest we keep the myth alive that we are MUCH sluttier, true or not. It's one of the few things some straight men are jealous of us about! Why burst their bubble?

[Scott]

An anti-gay post and replies have been deleted.

[onthemoon]

Men being men are by nature more promiscuous. That is if women let men shag them as much as men wanted to, straights would be viewed just as promiscuos. Since they don't, having to take into consideration the more serious fallout of casual affairs (like babies) have to be more thoughtful about sex than guys. The gay women I know are pretty monogamous, so it is not surprising to me that gay men are viewed as prosmiscuous.

Ha! You said it.

When I was in my teens and twens (and that is many decades ago, specifically before AIDS) we were pitying the poor straight guys who always had to think about contraception. The worst thing that could happen to us where STDs, all of which were curable. People were telling each other stories about when they got their first gonorrhea - it was like the flu. You went to the doc, got a shot, informed all your sexual partners of the past two (? don't remember any more) weeks to go see a doctor and refrain from any activity until the doc said you were fine. Note: I only had to go to the doc once in all those years, but clearly remember all the awkward phone calls I had to make. We did have honour at the time and wouldn't just keep quiet and did inform those who we might have had infected. Those were the days.

Maybe I would be considered a slut nowadays, but we saw sex as physical requirement, such as food and drink. I felt sorry for my straight friends who had to wine and dine for days or weeks the girls until they - maybe - got to third base.

Of course, this is anecdotal and not academic. But we did have a got time back then.

[onthemoon]

I couldn't be with someone as jealous as your husband. But people are different, and that's OK

Onthemoon,

You need to accept that we, people who are not married, and not in long term relationships, are not good members of gay community.

We are promiscous, no good sluts, who give nice and loving, commited gay peeps bad name.

In order to be a good gay man, you need to be handcuffed, i mean married, to one guy for 25 years.

Less than that, and you are a bad gay person. Not only hated by homophobes, but also by gay dudes who happen to be in relationship, and think you are not as good as they are

No, I said no such thing. What makes you think that?

Onthemoon, my post was not directed at you at all, I know you never said such thing.

But many gay people who are in long term relationships say it, I can't be sure if they actually believe that, or do they say it in order to feel superior to gay person who is single, and prefers short term, 1hr commitments.

Again, my post had nothing to do with your post, onthemoon!

Got it, thanks for your reply.

[ntg187]

In Thailand, or atleast BKK, Pattaya, and Phuket, I would wager that Straight males are much much much much more promisuise than gays. Yeah, looking at all of you pattaya folks (including myself). I can go through 20 different girls in half a week in pattaya.

[onthemoon]

There are a lot of terms that need to be agreed upon to come up with statistically valid information on the issue. What constitutes sexual contact? What constitutes gay? Do MSM count? Many of the studies cited earlier were not specific to gay people and the wording of the questions may not fit. If you ask about how many relationships someone has had in the past year, the answer might be different from sexual encounters.

Due to a busy schedule, I haven’t had time to respond very thoroughly to this topic. First of all, the statistics sited come from a report by The Guardian and are derived from information the dating site OKCupid. OKCupid is not a gay dating site and doesn’t even rank among the top 3 dating sites. The top 3 gay sites are: Match.com, Manhunt.net and Planetout.com. The information derived is very far from a scientific study and data derived about gays do not meet any standard of statistical validity.

People using a dating site may be very different in their sexual activity than people who do not. Even so, this study does point to a higher level of promiscuity. The increase that you site as being attributable to 2% of the gay population may not be correct. According to another source, it is 13%:

My conclusion, then, is that (according to the GSS data) there is a segment of gay men (roughly 13% of the total of gay men) who are promiscuous to a degree that straight men are not.

http://humbumbershoot.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/are-gay-men-more-promiscuous-than-straight-men-analyzing-research-results/

Please note that the comparison rules out married men. If married men were included the statistical difference would likely be quite different. In that same study single gay and straight men track fairly close in the number of partners, but again gay men do have more sexual partners than straight men.

There are studies which specifically look at gays rather than gleaning information from general data. Most of those show a higher level of sexual partners than their straight counterparts.

In the New England Journal of Science article, the statistics were derived from a sample of “of men who had homosexual contact after the age of 20.” Including all men, rather than gay men, would skew the statistics, unless all men who have homosexual contact over the age of 20 are considered as gay.

The overall information points to the fact that gays have had more sexual partners than straight men. The difference seems to be in the degree. Gay men may not be as promiscuous as many think, but they are never-the-less more promiscuous than their straight counterparts.

We cannot even start to discuss promiscuity if we don't agree what it means. This has not been achieved.

Once we have defined that, we will establish a methodology to measure it. Analysing dating sites begs the question of what you are analysing.

Then we will have to look at a representative sample. As you have already explained, none of the samples used in the academic researches mentioned are representative for the general population of gay people.

I therefore conclude that no statistics we know is relevant. But then, it would be a good paper topic for a researcher in social sciences.

[onthemoon]

In Thailand, or atleast BKK, Pattaya, and Phuket, I would wager that Straight males are much much much much more promisuise than gays. Yeah, looking at all of you pattaya folks (including myself). I can go through 20 different girls in half a week in pattaya.

We are glad to have given you the opportunity to brag.

While anecdotal, you have just proven my point: Men are men, regardless of whether they are straight or gay.

[ntg187]

In Thailand, or atleast BKK, Pattaya, and Phuket, I would wager that Straight males are much much much much more promisuise than gays. Yeah, looking at all of you pattaya folks (including myself). I can go through 20 different girls in half a week in pattaya.

We are glad to have given you the opportunity to brag.

While anecdotal, you have just proven my point: Men are men, regardless of whether they are straight or gay.

Its not bragging to say I can do something, its bragging if I say I did do something. And with how many sexy women are all over the place and how many guys take a new girl back to the room every night with them form the bars... it was a factual statement. If you want to call it bragging then I leave that decision in your very capable hands but I wouldn't. Only on this forum would it be considered bragging that you can pay 20 different prostitutes for sex during the course of half a week - most places in the world it would be considered disgusting. How ridiculous is that? But lets just ball park for a moment shall we. There are countless female prostitutes in pattaya and a very countable gay male prostitutes there. So like I said I would wager that on average pattaya alone has a 100 to 1 ratio of straight sluts vs gay sluts.

[onthemoon]

I recon if your bent, your bent. and that's it.

Luckily, I'm not a native speaker, otherwise I'd understand "bent" as a graphical description of a Kama Sutra position...

But I appreciate your meaning. Yes, it is true, queer is queer and that's it. There is no discussion or religion that can change a gay man to become straight. It's just a fact of life.

[anon8]

Men being men are by nature more promiscuous. That is if women let men shag them as much as men wanted to, straights would be viewed just as promiscuos. Since they don't, having to take into consideration the more serious fallout of casual affairs (like babies) have to be more thoughtful about sex than guys. The gay women I know are pretty monogamous, so it is not surprising to me that gay men are viewed as prosmiscuous.

Exactly, most men want to get it on, as often as possible, and preferably with good looking men or women, it is males nature. We can learn to control the desire and urges, but they are there.

[anon8]

I recon if your bent, your bent. and that's it.

Bent? Bent how? What does it mean, please?

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[anon8]

In Thailand, or atleast BKK, Pattaya, and Phuket, I would wager that Straight males are much much much much more promisuise than gays. Yeah, looking at all of you pattaya folks (including myself). I can go through 20 different girls in half a week in pattaya.

Dont be so sure, brother! There were times I did 20 guys with ease, within few days, could have more probably, but sometimes needed some sleep.

6 guys or so in one night at Sunee is easily doable in Pattaya.

So I think I win!

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