PROBLEM OR NOT ?

[NEWMAN2930]

Thanks in advance for all who read this and especially those who reply and can help;

I'll try to outline the situation as best i can;

My Thai wife fell pregnant with her then Swiss BF in 2009 and he reluctantly married her at the Amphur prior to her giving birth, once baby was born he was registered as the Father upon the birth certificate and the birth was registered at the Amphur, a temporary passport was granted for the baby from the Swiss Embassy BKK however as soon as baby was born he shot off into the sunset (back to Europe!) and has had no involvement in the babies life from that day to this.

My wife divorced her "husband" in 2011 via the Courts in Switzerland - this despite my wife being in Thailand, we used a lawyer from Switzerland and petitioned the Court on the grounds of his unreasonable behavior - abandonment and this proved successful, however despite him being recognized as the Father and both the lawyers and Court being aware of this so no Custody arrangements were given or made as part of the divorce decree, in fact no mention of the child at all within the divorce settlement as apparently this would have complicated matters with my wife then needing to be present in Switzerland to attend Court if the child was brought into matters, i think the Swiss court decided to let the Thai authorities deal with the custody issue, the Thai's however want any custody matters to go through the Swiss court where the divorce was issued...hope that all makes sense!.

We have tried by via a Swiss lawyer and a Thai lawyer to gain custody however without success on both occasions, the Father absolutely will not consent to signing custody papers despite never once having any contact or interest in his daughter.

Anyway onwards to today and we have now at least successfully applied for a Swiss passport for my stepdaughter despite being told at first that we could not do this.

My wife is here in the UK with me and soon to apply for ILR and the child until now has lived in Thailand however with the Swiss passport we intend to bring her to the UK as no visa required as a Swiss passport holder...however as my wife does not have formal custody and likewise cannot obtain the Por Kor 14 due to having legally married the Father before so the Amphur want to see custody arangements within the divorce decree...and yup they are not there and so around in circles we go...now my question is can my wife bring her daughter here to UK with her both removing her from Thailand and entering UK without the Por Kor 14 or formal custody ?, will immigration at either end want to see custody docs ?...as i say a visa is NOT required for the child due to being a Swiss passport holder and this has been confirmed by UKBA so the only possible issue is around a lack of custody or Por Kor 14

Thanks

[bellboy]

I take it the child. Has a Thai passport aswell, Can you not use that to leave Thailand. and the Swiss passport to enter the UK, ?

[Mario2008]

For the legal part about getting sole custody, check with isaanlawyers.

Your question is about immigration. I will move your topic to the forum dealing with visas for other countries, where you might get better answers.

[NEWMAN2930]

Thanks bellboy,

Sorry for being a "bit thick" but what would be the advantage of leaving Thailand on a Thai passport and entering the U.K on a Swiss passport ?, obviously "Mum" will carry birth cert and translations with her to prove she is the biological Mum however Mum and Stepdaughter have different Surnames (stepdaughter has her Fathers surname) though i don't think this will be a problem as my wife as stated can prove she is the biological Mum.

However my wife's lack of Por Kor 14 and Custody is the concern either at immigration leaving Thailand or entering UK.

[donniereadit]

The father is likely worried about a child support claim in not signing the custody papers. Especially if the mother has been in contact with a lawyer in his home country.

[bobrussell]

Your wife has parental responsibility (by definition!) shown by the birth certificate. Have it translated so it is available for inspection. I would have thought leaving on the Swiss passport would limit the involvement of Thai authorities. A copy of the divorce certificate would explain any difference in surnames.

As a holder of an EEA passport the child is free to enter and reside in the UK without problems. As the biological father is European I doubt the Thai authorities would require parental consent to leave Thailand to be required(perhaps worth talking to a Thai lawyer).

Once your wife is settled in the UK I would suggest you talk to a family law solicitor to discuss a residence order protecting your step-daughter from pressures from the father should he suddenly wish to get involved in her life! I doubt this would be a problem either as he has failed to provide support for the child up to now.

If you feel it is appropriate you could then try to get support for the child from the father!

I suspect few problems but the combination of documents available for inspection would get round any questions that may be asked.

Edited December 9, 2013 by bobrussell

[NEWMAN2930]

Thanks Bob

[Thongkorn]

I take it the child. Has a Thai passport aswell, Can you not use that to leave Thailand. and the Swiss passport to enter the UK, ?

you cannot leave a country on a passport then change it for another on entry to another country. The Airline would not carry you. because they would be libel for a fine.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Thongkorn

[Kevin1908]

I take it the child. Has a Thai passport aswell, Can you not use that to leave Thailand. and the Swiss passport to enter the UK, ?

you cannot leave a country on a passport then change it for another on entry to another country. The Airline would not carry you. because they would be libel for a fine.

How does the airline know that you intend to use another passport once you arrive in the UK and why would they be fined if it was legal?

[7by7]

I take it the child. Has a Thai passport aswell, Can you not use that to leave Thailand. and the Swiss passport to enter the UK, ?

you cannot leave a country on a passport then change it for another on entry to another country. The Airline would not carry you. because they would be libel for a fine.

Yes you can; my wife and daughter are just two of the millions of dual nationals worldwide who do it almost every time they fly.

See this post for the procedure.

Kevin, international agreements mean that if a passenger requires a visa for their destination but doesn't have one yet the airline still carries them then the airline will not only be liable for the cost of returning the passenger to their departure point but could also be liable for a large fine (up to $20,000 per passenger if memory serves) if the passenger is refused entry at their destination.

This is why airlines want to see your passport when checking in.

[Soutpeel]

I take it the child. Has a Thai passport aswell, Can you not use that to leave Thailand. and the Swiss passport to enter the UK, ?

you cannot leave a country on a passport then change it for another on entry to another country. The Airline would not carry you. because they would be libel for a fine.

Completely not true dual nationals do it all the time, to keep it within the thai context perfectly legal to depart thailand on a thai pp and enter say the UK on a your British pp if you have one,

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app