CBR 500

[Lucky33]

The Ducati is still here, I enjoy riding it but it isn't the motorcycle that you need for tooling around Pattaya, I still enjoy riding it out on the road and I plan on keeping it. I just noticed that I posted my previous message in the wrong forum, mine is a CB500, not a CBR . The Ducati is just too hot and heavy to be puttering around Pattaya.

[yankee99]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

[mania]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

I feel bad for that guy.

He did a good job of documenting his oil useage

Too bad he did not get a better result. But at least he is done now.

Does make one pause a bit as to whether or not purchase a

1st year new design engine. Maybe smarter to let the bugs work out?

Edited February 23, 2014 by mania

[Lucky33]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up, I've only ridden mine a little over 100 kilometers so I don't have anything to compare it with. I'm going to make a trip to Koh Chang later next week and I'll keep a close eye on it and let you know the results. So far I'm really pleased with the bike, my only complaint is that it should have a hinged gas filler cap and a gear indicator in the instrumentation.

[ll2]

The Ducati is still here, I enjoy riding it but it isn't the motorcycle that you need for tooling around Pattaya, I still enjoy riding it out on the road and I plan on keeping it. I just noticed that I posted my previous message in the wrong forum, mine is a CB500, not a CBR . The Ducati is just too hot and heavy to be puttering around Pattaya.

you got a nice bike, no worries.

and oil loss issues, it is one in a thousand, like a kawa engine blowing up one in a thousand.

i have no problems with mine at 24000 km now.

[bramds]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

I actually sent that guy a message.

He just got a lemon, same like superior from Chiang Rai.

Bike made on a Monday or a Friday.

I am happy with my Wednesday bike :-)

[ll2]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up, I've only ridden mine a little over 100 kilometers so I don't have anything to compare it with. I'm going to make a trip to Koh Chang later next week and I'll keep a close eye on it and let you know the results. So far I'm really pleased with the bike, my only complaint is that it should have a hinged gas filler cap and a gear indicator in the instrumentation.

'as you can see at the second photo there was actually not much to see as there was almost no oil.

I agree, the guy got a lemon bike. An unfortunate event that can make any rider crazy.

But, it is not like no oil, only 400 ml is missing.

These bikes can go with less than that.

and sorry but, how can you know how many ml is missing by just looking at oil check glass?

Besides, they have to put full 3 liters at 1000 km service as they change the oil filter not 2700 ml.

Edited February 24, 2014 by ll2

[yankee99]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up, I've only ridden mine a little over 100 kilometers so I don't have anything to compare it with. I'm going to make a trip to Koh Chang later next week and I'll keep a close eye on it and let you know the results. So far I'm really pleased with the bike, my only complaint is that it should have a hinged gas filler cap and a gear indicator in the instrumentation.

'as you can see at the second photo there was actually not much to see as there was almost no oil.

I agree, the guy got a lemon bike. An unfortunate event that can make any rider crazy.

But, it is not like no oil, only 400 ml is missing.

These bikes can go with less than that.

and sorry but, how can you know how many ml is missing by just looking at oil check glass?

Besides, they have to put full 3 liters at 1000 km service as they change the oil filter not 2700 ml.

if it takes 400 ml to bring it up to where it was previously then you know how much is missing?

[ll2]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up, I've only ridden mine a little over 100 kilometers so I don't have anything to compare it with. I'm going to make a trip to Koh Chang later next week and I'll keep a close eye on it and let you know the results. So far I'm really pleased with the bike, my only complaint is that it should have a hinged gas filler cap and a gear indicator in the instrumentation.

'as you can see at the second photo there was actually not much to see as there was almost no oil.

I agree, the guy got a lemon bike. An unfortunate event that can make any rider crazy.

But, it is not like no oil, only 400 ml is missing.

These bikes can go with less than that.

and sorry but, how can you know how many ml is missing by just looking at oil check glass?

Besides, they have to put full 3 liters at 1000 km service as they change the oil filter not 2700 ml.

if it takes 400 ml to bring it up to where it was previously then you know how much is missing?

But not that precisely, right?

Also you fill 3 liters if you change the oil filter at 1000 km service.

And it is not like 'no oil'.

Also oil light was never on i guess.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dave_boo]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up, I've only ridden mine a little over 100 kilometers so I don't have anything to compare it with. I'm going to make a trip to Koh Chang later next week and I'll keep a close eye on it and let you know the results. So far I'm really pleased with the bike, my only complaint is that it should have a hinged gas filler cap and a gear indicator in the instrumentation.

'as you can see at the second photo there was actually not much to see as there was almost no oil.

I agree, the guy got a lemon bike. An unfortunate event that can make any rider crazy.

But, it is not like no oil, only 400 ml is missing.

These bikes can go with less than that.

and sorry but, how can you know how many ml is missing by just looking at oil check glass?

Besides, they have to put full 3 liters at 1000 km service as they change the oil filter not 2700 ml.

I am one of Honda's staunchest fans...and missing 'only 400mL' is a fairly serious issue. All manufacturers will produce lemons (noticed something pop up about a new 320i leaking coolant into the transmission!) but the response of the Udon dealer is definitely sub-par. They should have offered to replace the top end if the head gasket change didn't fix that problem. If the owner was not happy with repairing the engine they should have offered a new engine. If problems are not acknowledged by the community than we're no better than fanboys for the other camp(s). Nit-picking about a 10% variance just sounds silly.

[ll2]

Here is a interesting read not sure if its been posted yet? Check your oil before every ride.

http://hondacb500fproblem.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up, I've only ridden mine a little over 100 kilometers so I don't have anything to compare it with. I'm going to make a trip to Koh Chang later next week and I'll keep a close eye on it and let you know the results. So far I'm really pleased with the bike, my only complaint is that it should have a hinged gas filler cap and a gear indicator in the instrumentation.

'as you can see at the second photo there was actually not much to see as there was almost no oil.

I agree, the guy got a lemon bike. An unfortunate event that can make any rider crazy.

But, it is not like no oil, only 400 ml is missing.

These bikes can go with less than that.

and sorry but, how can you know how many ml is missing by just looking at oil check glass?

Besides, they have to put full 3 liters at 1000 km service as they change the oil filter not 2700 ml.

I am one of Honda's staunchest fans...and missing 'only 400mL' is a fairly serious issue. All manufacturers will produce lemons (noticed something pop up about a new 320i leaking coolant into the transmission!) but the response of the Udon dealer is definitely sub-par. They should have offered to replace the top end if the head gasket change didn't fix that problem. If the owner was not happy with repairing the engine they should have offered a new engine. If problems are not acknowledged by the community than we're no better than fanboys for the other camp(s). Nit-picking about a 10% variance just sounds silly.

dave, i am just pointing out some irregularities in the blog. I ride many hondas in my life but Honda is not my fathers company at the end!

i am using one at 24k km and i have no problems. all the guys i know owning these bikes, does not state any problems to me as well.

Yes, 400 ml of missing oil is a demoralizing issue on a new bike and Udon dealer did not respond good enough to the guy according to the blog - although we never know what happened there, truth is always double sided, if you go shout at the Bigwing Udon shop as an angry farang, sure they will not be eager to help you out, you know Thai culture.

But please talk about these 4 points and if you add your comments on these, it will be helpful.

First, you cannot know if it is 400 ml or less or more by just looking to the oil check glass.

Second, it is 3000 ml they fill on 1000 km service not 2700 ml

Third, it is not like 'no oil' inside the bike as claimed.

Fourth, if there is a serious leak somewhere or 'no oil', why the 'oil light' never come on?

Thanks a lot.

[taninthai]

I thought it was quite good service from honda ,sent mechanics to his house two times and had the work overseen by someone from ap Honda then when all failed agreed to buy the bike back from him,of coarse op did not say what price they bought it back for that is the only spoiler

[yankee99]

LL i am also a honda fan as you know. Here is my take....

First, you cannot know if it is 400 ml or less or more by just looking to the oil check glass. if i was trying to measure i would fill it to the exact same place on the sight glass. This although not perfect seems close to accurate.

Second, it is 3000 ml they fill on 1000 km service not 2700 ml... i dont know :/)

Third, it is not like 'no oil' inside the bike as claimed. Agree but running on less then required oil is not good.

Fourth, if there is a serious leak somewhere or 'no oil', why the 'oil light' never come on? Again depending on the type of sensor low oil may not trigger it. You can still ride with low air in your tires but over time its not good.

I dont know this guy but have read a lot of his posts and he appears a lot more level headed then i am. Honda obviouly were reluctant to admit there was a issue and when they did seems they couldnt address it. My 2003 cbr burns so little oil i would never notice...

[Lucky33]

I thought it was quite good service from honda ,sent mechanics to his house two times and had the work overseen by someone from ap Honda then when all failed agreed to buy the bike back from him,of coarse op did not say what price they bought it back for that is the only spoiler

I agree, if one of the shops here in Thailand visited my home to service my bike that I was having problems with I would think that it was nothing short of a miracle . The more I ride my CB500F the more I like it. Great for puttering around Pattaya and almost as good as a full-on touring bike on the road.

One good thing about Honda Big Wing in Pattaya. I've bought several motorcycles in Thailand and I always buy them the same way, I put down a substantial deposit and tell them to call me when all of the paperwork is done and the bike is ready to roll out the door. Before after they called me, I still had to wait at the dealership for them to finalize the paperwork and service the bike, I guess they wanted to make sure that I was coming back before they did the work. At Honda Big Wing, when they called me and I went to pick it up everything was done, I signed the papers, paid the balance, and rode off, that's the way it is supposed to be done. Props to Honda Big Wing!

[dave_boo]

Anybody else see this dyno run with a full Yoshi exhaust?

Would be needed to hold off those new R3 inbound. Pretty flat torque spread of 29-34 lb_*ft (39-46 N_*m). Bet with a PowerCommander and tune you could get that up to 54 RWHP for a nice +25% increase.

[ll2]

Anybody else see this dyno run with a full Yoshi exhaust?

Would be needed to hold off those new R3 inbound. Pretty flat torque spread of 29-34 lb_*ft (39-46 N_*m). Bet with a PowerCommander and tune you could get that up to 54 RWHP for a nice +25% increase.

not that much but you get around 12 percent increase in power for around 30 k thb with an arrow slip on, pc5, air filter, airbox mods, freer flowing velocity stacks etc. If the pipe is a full system one, i am sure you get more increase.

one guy at another forum got 47,22 rwhp and 43,34 nm torque from it which are really respectable numbers for this bike.

still 12 percent up of 47 crank hp is making around 53 hp.

and they got 54 bhp from European junior cup cbr500r, but it is bhp but again respectable torque at 48 nm

Engine type Liquid-Cooled, parallel twin Displacement & Bore x Stroke 471cm3 / 67 x 66.8mm Max. Power Output 54 bhp Max. Torque 48 Nm/7,000 rpm ECU Dynojet Power Commander V module Exhaust Full racing exhaust system Suspension - Front Andreani 20 mm cartridge unit (Fully adjustable for preload, compression, rebound and spring rate) Suspension - Rear Ohlins S46HR1C1L with remote preload adjuster (Fully adjustable for preload, compression, rebound and spring rate) Fairing & Protection Plastic Bike full race fairing with F.Fabbri race windscreen Febur lightweight aluminium instrument and fairing holder. MikyMotor race paintwork. Chain & Sprockets RK race chain / CHT Chiaravalli race sprockets Dimensions (LxWxH) 2,075 x 740 x 1,145mm Transmission 6 speed race sequence. HM quick shifter. Seat Race-seat removable pad. Fuel Racing fuel. 95 MOn. Lubricants Motul lubricants Brakes Motodex / HEL competition brakelines. Rizoma brake guard. SBS racing pads. Dry weight 146 Kg

so 500 series are open for development.

[dave_boo]

Anybody else see this dyno run with a full Yoshi exhaust?

Would be needed to hold off those new R3 inbound. Pretty flat torque spread of 29-34 lb_*ft (39-46 N_*m). Bet with a PowerCommander and tune you could get that up to 54 RWHP for a nice +25% increase.

not that much but you get around 12 percent increase in power for around 30 k thb with an arrow slip on, pc5, air filter, airbox mods, freer flowing velocity stacks etc. If the pipe is a full system one, i am sure you get more increase.

one guy at another forum got 47,22 rwhp and 43,34 nm torque from it which are really respectable numbers for this bike.

still 12 percent up of 47 crank hp is making around 53 hp.

and they got 54 bhp from European junior cup cbr500r, but it is bhp but again respectable torque at 48 nm

Engine type Liquid-Cooled, parallel twin Displacement & Bore x Stroke 471cm3 / 67 x 66.8mm Max. Power Output 54 bhp Max. Torque 48 Nm/7,000 rpm ECU Dynojet Power Commander V module Exhaust Full racing exhaust system Suspension - Front Andreani 20 mm cartridge unit (Fully adjustable for preload, compression, rebound and spring rate) Suspension - Rear Ohlins S46HR1C1L with remote preload adjuster (Fully adjustable for preload, compression, rebound and spring rate) Fairing & Protection Plastic Bike full race fairing with F.Fabbri race windscreen Febur lightweight aluminium instrument and fairing holder. MikyMotor race paintwork. Chain & Sprockets RK race chain / CHT Chiaravalli race sprockets Dimensions (LxWxH) 2,075 x 740 x 1,145mm Transmission 6 speed race sequence. HM quick shifter. Seat Race-seat removable pad. Fuel Racing fuel. 95 MOn. Lubricants Motul lubricants Brakes Motodex / HEL competition brakelines. Rizoma brake guard. SBS racing pads. Dry weight 146 Kg

so 500 series are open for development.

You're mixing your BHP and RWHP units.

The 500 series is 48 BHP, ~43 RWHP. Obviously some dynos will read high and some low. The dyno you linked to was an increase of 12.5%. The dyno I linked to was an increase of ~16%. Going from 43 RWHP (48 BHP) to 54 RWHP measured on a dyno is an increase of 25.6%.

Put another way, that ~10% drive line loss will remain constant. So if 54 RWHP is measured, than approximately 60.3 BHP can be safely assumed. And that is 25.5% increase over stock BHP.

You'll also note that my suggestion to get up to 54 bhp seems to agree with what they did in that cup racing series.

[ll2]

Anybody else see this dyno run with a full Yoshi exhaust?

Would be needed to hold off those new R3 inbound. Pretty flat torque spread of 29-34 lb_*ft (39-46 N_*m). Bet with a PowerCommander and tune you could get that up to 54 RWHP for a nice +25% increase.

not that much but you get around 12 percent increase in power for around 30 k thb with an arrow slip on, pc5, air filter, airbox mods, freer flowing velocity stacks etc. If the pipe is a full system one, i am sure you get more increase.

one guy at another forum got 47,22 rwhp and 43,34 nm torque from it which are really respectable numbers for this bike.

still 12 percent up of 47 crank hp is making around 53 hp.

and they got 54 bhp from European junior cup cbr500r, but it is bhp but again respectable torque at 48 nm

Engine type Liquid-Cooled, parallel twin Displacement & Bore x Stroke 471cm3 / 67 x 66.8mm Max. Power Output 54 bhp Max. Torque 48 Nm/7,000 rpm ECU Dynojet Power Commander V module Exhaust Full racing exhaust system Suspension - Front Andreani 20 mm cartridge unit (Fully adjustable for preload, compression, rebound and spring rate) Suspension - Rear Ohlins S46HR1C1L with remote preload adjuster (Fully adjustable for preload, compression, rebound and spring rate) Fairing & Protection Plastic Bike full race fairing with F.Fabbri race windscreen Febur lightweight aluminium instrument and fairing holder. MikyMotor race paintwork. Chain & Sprockets RK race chain / CHT Chiaravalli race sprockets Dimensions (LxWxH) 2,075 x 740 x 1,145mm Transmission 6 speed race sequence. HM quick shifter. Seat Race-seat removable pad. Fuel Racing fuel. 95 MOn. Lubricants Motul lubricants Brakes Motodex / HEL competition brakelines. Rizoma brake guard. SBS racing pads. Dry weight 146 Kg

so 500 series are open for development.

You're mixing your BHP and RWHP units.

The 500 series is 48 BHP, ~43 RWHP. Obviously some dynos will read high and some low. The dyno you linked to was an increase of 12.5%. The dyno I linked to was an increase of ~16%. Going from 43 RWHP (48 BHP) to 54 RWHP measured on a dyno is an increase of 25.6%.

Put another way, that ~10% drive line loss will remain constant. So if 54 RWHP is measured, than approximately 60.3 BHP can be safely assumed. And that is 25.5% increase over stock BHP.

You'll also note that my suggestion to get up to 54 bhp seems to agree with what they did in that cup racing series.

i am not mixing anything dave.

cbr500r dyno video you posted shows a number of 50,2 ch which is 49,5 hp and maybe that dyno shows a bit higher.

so again it does not make 25 percent increase but something like 15 - 16 percent. dont think so one can extra 25 percent extra power from cbr500r. even the mechanics at European Junior cup could not get that much - hence 54 bhp figure they got.

but 15 percent is doable and it is a very respectable number for 30 k thb. so you pay 15 percent of the value of the bike and get 15 percent extra performance plus it will be sure smoother with pc5. reasonable.

[dave_boo]

i am not mixing anything dave.

cbr500r dyno video you posted shows a number of 50,2 ch which is 49,5 hp and maybe that dyno shows a bit higher.

so again it does not make 25 percent increase but something like 15 - 16 percent. dont think so one can extra 25 percent extra power from cbr500r. even the mechanics at European Junior cup could not get that much - hence 54 bhp figure they got.

but 15 percent is doable and it is a very respectable number for 30 k thb. so you pay 15 percent of the value of the bike and get 15 percent extra performance plus it will be sure smoother with pc5. reasonable.

The European Junior Cup has never released a dyno. Unless you can find one (I spent a couple of hours looking). And I doubt that they'll strip down each and every bike and stick it on an engine dyno; I'd assume that 54 hp is rear wheel.

The video I linked to doesn't mention whether a PCIV was used. I'll admit to that. It also doesn't have either a baseline (which would indicate if it read high) or an air fuel ratio (which would be pretty compelling information as to whether a PCIV was in fact used).

Let's assume you're correct and 49.5 RWHP is all that is doable. And then look at the value option. Spending 1% of bike's cost per 1% increase in power is actually really good. The Kawasaki Ninja 250 gets about 1% increase in power per 1.9% increase in price using Yoshimura's TRC full exhaust and PCIV. The Ninja 300 gets about 1% power increase per 2.7% increase in cost. Or the Ninja 650 with 1% increase in power per 2.3% increase in cost. All in all a good option.

[ll2]

i am not mixing anything dave.

cbr500r dyno video you posted shows a number of 50,2 ch which is 49,5 hp and maybe that dyno shows a bit higher.

so again it does not make 25 percent increase but something like 15 - 16 percent. dont think so one can extra 25 percent extra power from cbr500r. even the mechanics at European Junior cup could not get that much - hence 54 bhp figure they got.

but 15 percent is doable and it is a very respectable number for 30 k thb. so you pay 15 percent of the value of the bike and get 15 percent extra performance plus it will be sure smoother with pc5. reasonable.

The European Junior Cup has never released a dyno. Unless you can find one (I spent a couple of hours looking). And I doubt that they'll strip down each and every bike and stick it on an engine dyno; I'd assume that 54 hp is rear wheel.

The video I linked to doesn't mention whether a PCIV was used. I'll admit to that. It also doesn't have either a baseline (which would indicate if it read high) or an air fuel ratio (which would be pretty compelling information as to whether a PCIV was in fact used).

Let's assume you're correct and 49.5 RWHP is all that is doable. And then look at the value option. Spending 1% of bike's cost per 1% increase in power is actually really good. The Kawasaki Ninja 250 gets about 1% increase in power per 1.9% increase in price using Yoshimura's TRC full exhaust and PCIV. The Ninja 300 gets about 1% power increase per 2.7% increase in cost. Or the Ninja 650 with 1% increase in power per 2.3% increase in cost. All in all a good option.

yep, exactly. that is what i am saying.

so, it looks like there is some room on these 500 series. and 1 percent expense on 1 percent performance increase is very good.

and i am sure cbr650f has a lot room for development as well.

here is the link for European junior cup cbr500r.

it is stated as 54 bhp:

http://2013.europeanjuniorcup.com/europeanjuniorcup/cbr500r/?machine=honda_cbr500r&team=ejc

[ll2]

now you can put a nicer cams for 500 series at 611 USD around 20 k thb.

http://danielcrowerracing.com/i-18896880-honda-cbr-500-s-cam-set-2014-15.html