Suthep rejects House dissolution

[Totster]

Chiangmai, I don't need you to tell me that my 25 years here does not entitle me to a comment. Sutep is only second to Taksin in corrupt power. His bitch is that the Dems have not truely been elected in in 18 years. Failed policies and failure to govern when it was handed to them by the Army. So Sutep gets poorer and poorer sitting on the position bench. So you think this is all about honor, loyalty, want of an uncorrupted government, he has had his day. Hahahah, I laugh in your face!

Classy post of the day!!!

Agreed, hit the nail on the head !

totster

[chiang mai]

We start from different starting points, you assume because of history that Suthep remains a crook today, I do not. I view the fact that he's trying to get rid of a very corrupt government once and for all and that he wants a complete reformation of the police force as very positive things that will serve the future of the country well - others may however know his motives better although I'm certain they also would be guesses!

Nowhere did I say that Suthep is a totally honest man who's as pure as the driven snow and that corruption will be eliminated completely as a result of all of this, that would be foolish. And nowhere did I suggest that poster Jayjayjayjay (who seems highly agitated) couldn't or shouldn't comment on this subject.

[Spare]

I watched Jonathan Head interviewing the light skinned thai chinese as the protestors marched past shouting out out.

Yes she and the Bangkok bourgeoisie want the Shiniwatras and their government driven out. Out of the country.

They want ORDER without the law as they aspire to be elites above the LAW!

So where does it end?

Drive out the Shiniwatra family? Their business associates? PTPs backers,The parliamentary leaders? The red shirt leaders? Intellectuals and academics?

How again will Thailand be able to hold elections when there can be any hint that Thaksin ,or anyone else following for that matter, have influence over the poor?

Clearly the PAD, Dems, Suthep etc will attempt to avoid any further elections for these reasons should they be victorious.

However look at Wikileaks the State department demanded elections within 1 year last time so the Merry-go-around will start again. Or worse.

Wikileaks cannot be trusted. The released material discredit Thailand before <edited as a self-censored>

Edited December 10, 2013 by Spare

[canuckamuck]

We start from different starting points, you assume because of history that Suthep remains a crook today, I do not. I view the fact that he's trying to get rid of a very corrupt government once and for all and that he wants a complete reformation of the police force as very positive things that will serve the future of the country well - others may however know his motives better although I'm certain they also would be guesses!

Nowhere did I say that Suthep is a totally honest man who's as pure as the driven snow and that corruption will be eliminated completely as a result of all of this, that would be foolish. And nowhere did I suggest that poster Jayjayjayjay (who seems highly agitated) couldn't or shouldn't comment on this subject.

His stated goals are good, but if you want to pull off a major power play and don't have your own army. You are going to need to be seen as believable.

We will have to see if Suthep actually means to, or even has a plan to deliver the goods. He seems to me like an angry old man playing a last hand at grasping power.

Something has to change though, that is for sure.The way governing is done, the way the system gets milked, and the way the laws are upheld is obviously inadequate for a country hoping to be competitive someday. Perhaps some good may come from this.

As far as us expats are concerned, things won't get better either way. it's already as good as it is going to get. Enjoy it.

[Exsexyman]

stradavious37 is clearly deluded and letting his personal prejudices get in the way of reality if he really believes that the News Forum is is dominated by pro government posters. The reality of course, is that anyone who has followed this forum knows that the overwhelming majority of posters, probably about 90%, are rabidly anti government and anti red shirt. Hour after hour, day after day, week after week, there is a continuous stream of anti government rhetoric, for many it must be a full time job! All falling over themselves in their haste to be the first to post what they consider to be a witty comment about 'shopping, burburry handbags, fugitive criminal, the cliches just go on and on. All 'liking' each others comments. Even if it bears no relation to the topic under discussion, that doesn't matter, they will manage to somehow introduce Yingluck or Thaksin into it. They truly are sad obsessed individuals who should perhaps get themselves a hobby. Hands up all those who's eyes don't glaze over when the see the phrase "ear medicine", or "smiley smiley thank you", posted for the umpteenth time that week by posters who obviously think they are being profound and witty! They probably think that erudite is a glue!

Edited December 10, 2013 by Exsexyman

[Swiss1960]

Well, from right this minute on, since HM the King has approved the Royal Decree for parliament dissolution, set Ms Yingluck as caretaker PM and ordered elections for February 2, everytime Mr. Suthep will call for her to retreat from that post and call for a people's council and reject the idea of new elections, he will be in direct contradiction and disobedience of the Royal Decree of HM the King of Thailand.

Mr. Suthep might not have wanted a house dissolution, but something different putting him in power. But based on the Royal Decree, he has now lost his battle, HM the King has decided otherwise. Mr. Suthep's only option is now to obey to the Royal Decree, withdraw all his crazy ideas or otherwise face lese majesty charges.

[chiang mai]

Chiangmai, I don't need you to tell me that my 25 years here does not entitle me to a comment. Sutep is only second to Taksin in corrupt power. His bitch is that the Dems have not truely been elected in in 18 years. Failed policies and failure to govern when it was handed to them by the Army. So Sutep gets poorer and poorer sitting on the position bench. So you think this is all about honor, loyalty, want of an uncorrupted government, he has had his day. Hahahah, I laugh in your face!

Classy post of the day!!!

Agreed, hit the nail on the head !

totster

You think the exclamation marks mean he was serious in those remarks! Oh dear.

[Spare]

Well, from right this minute on, since HM the King has approved the Royal Decree for parliament dissolution, set Ms Yingluck as caretaker PM and ordered elections for February 2, everytime Mr. Suthep will call for her to retreat from that post and call for a people's council and reject the idea of new elections, he will be in direct contradiction and disobedience of the Royal Decree of HM the King of Thailand.

Mr. Suthep might not have wanted a house dissolution, but something different putting him in power. But based on the Royal Decree, he has now lost his battle, HM the King has decided otherwise. Mr. Suthep's only option is now to obey to the Royal Decree, withdraw all his crazy ideas or otherwise face lese majesty charges.

All is not lost.

If Yingluck resign, than we can Law #7 to ask for an appointed PM nominated by Suthep's People's council.

Before you say anything, Suthep already make it clear that he will not nominate himself as a PM.

He is happy just be the Secretary General.

[englishoak]

All is not lost.

If Yingluck resign, than we can Law #7 to ask for an appointed PM nominated by Suthep's People's council.

Before you say anything, Suthep already make it clear that he will not nominate himself as a PM.

He is happy just be the Secretary General.

So let me ask you a question... What right does Suthep have to be involved at all, because he says so ?

IF a peoples council were to be formed it should consist of equal amount red as it does yellow with others.... you cannot have a hand picked council decided by those who are corrupt or have been proven to be and expect anything but more of the same.. .. if he REALLY cares he should have stated a long time ago he would have nothing to do with any of it... Suthep IS part of the problem not the solution.

Once a thief always a thief... oh and btw wiki dosnt discredit Thailand nearly as much the country does all on its own on a consistent basis.

[Thai at Heart]

This guy is such a plank. :-)

My thoughts exactly..

He knows that an election will bring back the current government - but then it's what the people of Thailand want. Sooner or later they will have to accept that democracy means that who wins an election is the chosen person to lead, regardless of whether they agree or not.

All of those who scream vote buying.. don't be so naive to think that it's just one party doing it.. we got the same amount from all candidates last time

totster

The article by Chris Baker and Acharn Pasuk in the BP yesterday demolished the argument vote buying influences electoral results once and for all.From now on those who invoke vote buying as an argument against democracy in Thailand need to show evidence and demonstrate their case.Otherwise there is no need to bother with them.

How about some logic then..

If vote buying does not work why is it done

Remember Mr T his remarks those who did not vote for me won't be helped (threat to the South)

If stuff like this does not work... then why it is done.. I am sure they much rather keep they money themselves.

Actually in Sutheps speech he says the rice scheme is vote buying because it gave the poor farmers double the price for the rice, he also said the minimum wage increase was vote buying as well, goes to show what this is really all about. The rich elite and the military don't want to see any of these peoples lives improve as they have labeled these policies as vote buying.

Put all the BS, lies, propaganda, corruption etc. etc. aside the bottom line to this struggle has always been the rich elite partnered with the military against the poor undeclassed or working class who have the majority. it just baffles me how many farangs that post here want the poor to stay poor, remain uneducated and not have the same opportunities to improve the quality of life!

That is all as maybe. If however this all leads to some committee changing the rules that make punishment of corruption easier, vote buying harder, removes defamation and gets rid of parliamentary immunity for criminal behaviour then it paves the way for the next round of political growth in thailand.

At the moment these are just growing pains. No one really cares for the poor. No one.

[chiang mai]

"He knows that an election will bring back the current government - but then it's what the people of Thailand want".

Can it really be said that the people of Thailand know what they really want when so many votes are bought for a few hundred baht a time! I think there are those who genuinely do understand what's good for the country and themselves and then there are the vast hoards who've never thought about it that much but their vote, either way, can be bought. I see what Suthep is doing currently as trying to negate the effects of the latter contingent, it may be undemocratic but people need protecting from themselves sometimes (not just true of Thailand but in other countries also).

[canuckamuck]

What the people need is an education so they can make proper decisions.

[chiang mai]

And a decent functioning police force to ensure those decisions are adhered to, which brings us back to Suthep and his current mission.

[aparasher]

Is Suthep's photo in this pose intentional???...:-)

[haroldcane]

Yingluck: okay I resign and dissolve the government

another red lie & cruelty to animals. WHEN & WHERE had yinglack without luck has ever said: "I resign and dissolve the government"? na??

[WISteve]

As an active participant in TV for over 8 years, especially in the news forum, I have come to witness an interesting phenomenon. During times of political crisis (2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013), there appears a very curious strain of poster on the TV News Forum - the TV Red Shirts. These posters seem to spring up to "pop off" only during these times of crisis, and them just as quickly fade away after the crisis settles. The are characterized by a few noticeable traits.

1) Denial - They will never say anything bad about Thaksin, Pheu Thai Party, or the Red Shirt movement, regardless of any fact or argument presented. In fact, their typical reaction is the classic "ignore, and the misdirect". They refuse to discuss or debate, but instead rely soley yelling their point again and again, ad nauseum. This type of poster who only sees their side as "all right" and the other side as "all wrong" make most of the news threads during crisis times a chore to wade through. It's also a childish worldview to insist that only one side in a discussion is at fault. People who live in this type of "bubble" and profess these beliefs can be found on both sides of the discussion, but the majority are can be found in the TV Redshirt brigade.

2) The False Equivalency - this is a particular favorite of theirs. They like to state that "Both sides" are equally guilty of corruption, malfeasance, etc. While it is certainly true that there is corruption on both sides (in this case the PTP and Democrats), any reasonable look at the hundreds of billions being funneled away and lost in the rice pledging scheme (to name one example) dwarfs any program the Democrats ran that had corruption issues. Both sides being corrupt does not mean that one side cannot be MORE corrupt.

3) The Yellow Shirt Label - most of the reasoned, thoughtful news posters are well informed, polite, and welcome open and honest discourse. This discourse goes out the window during these crisis times. They most common response to a Red Shirt directed criticism is "Well the yellow shirts did this and this and this", as if the poster they are arguing with is a yellow shirt sympathizer. In fact, most the the well-reasoned thoughtful TF news forum debaters do not self identify with either movement, but instead try to look at things through the lens of "Thailand is my adoptive country, and even though I can't vote here, I want it to find sustainable success".

The "If you comment on my post you must be a yellow shirt" is a] worn tired cliche.

4) Name Calling - While any crisis brings out an increased TV readership ("Those "Breaking Alert" things that flood my inbox), the people who pop in, and pop out after the crisis tend to be much more vitriolic, and more willing to offer insults when their comments are commented upon in any negative fashion. I was just called a "&lt;deleted&gt;" by one particularly delightful "Pop-in TV Red Shirt". These folks are certainly good for the TV ad revenue stream, but really don't bring anything tangible to the conversation.

I could go on, but my fingers are tired of typing, and I suspect this will be one of the more interesting threads going forward. Lets see how many of the Crisis "Pop In" TV Red Shirts come to visit, and show us examples from my list lol.

Am I one of those folks you seem to hate that appear during a political crisis? The thing is, I do read the board regularly but seldom post because I have a life other than arguing politics. And I've been reading this board for over a decade so you'll have to excuse me if I don't always agree with a person who is a relative newcomer such as yourself. I live in Thailand and I will state my opinion and there won't be any name calling involved.

Funny thing about your theory is:

1) I don't want Mr T back. He is a political lightning rod that would better serve his country by staying out in the great sand traps of the Middle East. But that fellow you seem to admire so much who is rejecting the dissolution is just as corrupt as Mr T In my opinion. And he has no basis in law to be ordering state employees to report to his merry band of self-appointed committee members for any reason. And he has been indicted for serious crimes and should turn himself in if he had a ounce of respectability. Mr T ran away from his conviction; Mr Suthep is publicly showing his contempt for the rule of law in Thailand by thumbing his nose at the criminal justice system.

2) Your rejection of any attempt at equivalency. It's ironic that you mention the rice pledging scheme as buying votes since the program began under the prior un-elected government led by Aby and Suthep!! I don't like the program either since it is fiscally unsound and too much of the funds end of benefiting the commodity traders and dealers. But pick another program next time.

3) Calling the supporters of an anarchist ( I believe that is what the arrest warrant says?) as something other than thoughtful and informed isn't hard for me to understand but you can disagree. So if you dislike being called a Yellow Shirt supporter, why do you persist in calling those who disagree with you Red Shirt supporters? You did it numerous times above. If you are so thoughtful, polite and well informed, shouldn't you be leading by example?

"He knows that an election will bring back the current government - but then it's what the people of Thailand want".

Can it really be said that the people of Thailand know what they really want when so many votes are bought for a few hundred baht a time! I think there are those who genuinely do understand what's good for the country and themselves and then there are the vast hoards who've never thought about it that much but their vote, either way, can be bought. I see what Suthep is doing currently as trying to negate the effects of the latter contingent, it may be undemocratic but people need protecting from themselves sometimes (not just true of Thailand but in other countries also).

Ahh, just what every democracy needs!! Some well-intended politician like Mr Suthep to "protect" them from themselves. This kind of logic has been present on TV during every political debate it seems? Your assertion that "those half-educated Isaan farmers don't deserve to vote!!" is an insult to the people of Thailand and shows how very little you know about why those farmers in the Northeast reject the political elite that wish to take back some of the basic human rights that they are now enjoying.

I am not for this person or that person, but I reject people who wish to set aside basis rights such as low cost primary healthcare, educational opportunity and a reasonable minimum wage. Your hero Suthep wants to turn the clock back a generation or two, to once again keep the rural poor uneducated, down on the farm and working for peanuts. Sorry, but the cat is out of the bag and those citizens have as much right to vote for the person of their choice as your elitist friends. And the sooner the former ruling class comes to grip with that reality, the sooner Thailand can move forward and make a better nation for all it's citizens.

[chiang mai]

Fair comment, playing the democratic, "everyone has a right to vote" card is not unreasonable. But stop for a moment and challenge that right, do they really have a right to vote when they allow their vote to be bought and/or as in the West in countries like the UK where they don't vote at all? I suggest no they don't, I think under those circumstances people perhaps might even get to loose their vote entirely. But regardless of what we each might think on this point, one thing is clear, no election will ever be free fair and representative as long as votes are allowed to be bought by the rural poor, in that respect I wonder if the country is actually ready for democracy.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed.

Posts using derogatory nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly.

[canuckamuck]

Fair comment, playing the democratic, "everyone has a right to vote" card is not unreasonable. But stop for a moment and challenge that right, do they really have a right to vote when they allow their vote to be bought and/or as in the West in countries like the UK where they don't vote at all? I suggest no they don't, I think under those circumstances people perhaps might even get to loose their vote entirely. But regardless of what we each might think on this point, one thing is clear, no election will ever be free fair and representative as long as votes are allowed to be bought by the rural poor, in that respect I wonder if the country is actually ready for democracy.

The people have a right to choose whomever for whatever reason. It is the job of the politicians to present themselves as the better choice. A politician has the right to make campaign promises. If the opposition cannot present a package that is more attractive, then they must educate the people as to why their opponents are being irresponsible with their promises.

It is a crime for politicians to give money in exchange for votes. But it is the job of the courts to determine if that happened. The fact that it does happen in Thailand so openly exposes a major flaw in the application of law, but it does not mean that people should lose their right to vote. It means the system needs to become accountable. Accountability can only come from the voting pubic, without a mandate from the people conspiracy is inevitable.

Without the right to vote, citizens become wards of the state, instead of the government being employees of the people. Without accountability the door is open for complete abuse of power, History has shown this to be a likely scenario. Every Tyrant starts out appearing to apply the law, only to disregard it when power is consolidated.

The only completely irresponsible thing Thailand can do at this point is to remove the right to vote. It is treason and a predictable result would be civil war.

[WISteve]

Fair comment, playing the democratic, "everyone has a right to vote" card is not unreasonable. But stop for a moment and challenge that right, do they really have a right to vote when they allow their vote to be bought and/or as in the West in countries like the UK where they don't vote at all? I suggest no they don't, I think under those circumstances people perhaps might even get to loose their vote entirely. But regardless of what we each might think on this point, one thing is clear, no election will ever be free fair and representative as long as votes are allowed to be bought by the rural poor, in that respect I wonder if the country is actually ready for democracy.

The people have a right to choose whomever for whatever reason. It is the job of the politicians to present themselves as the better choice. A politician has the right to make campaign promises. If the opposition cannot present a package that is more attractive, then they must educate the people as to why their opponents are being irresponsible with their promises.

It is a crime for politicians to give money in exchange for votes. But it is the job of the courts to determine if that happened. The fact that it does happen in Thailand so openly exposes a major flaw in the application of law, but it does not mean that people should lose their right to vote. It means the system needs to become accountable. Accountability can only come from the voting pubic, without a mandate from the people conspiracy is inevitable.

Without the right to vote, citizens become wards of the state, instead of the government being employees of the people. Without accountability the door is open for complete abuse of power, History has shown this to be a likely scenario. Every Tyrant starts out appearing to apply the law, only to disregard it when power is consolidated.

The only completely irresponsible thing Thailand can do at this point is to remove the right to vote. It is treason and a predictable result would be civil war.

Very well said sir.

Taking away the vote from responsible working citizens will inevitably lead to tyranny.

Suthep's rejection of the House dissolution is worrying to me, because it smacks of abandonment of the democratic process.

It's not scientific by any means, but every Thai person I have ever questioned about the money packets handed out on or before election day seem to have a good chuckle about it. They are happy to take the money, the family will eat a little better that week. And they often times receive these "gifts" from more than one candidate. But when it is time to vote they vote their conscience, regardless of who gave them what out on the street. I honestly don't think it matters to them who is handing out the money because they know who they are going to vote for.

Thailand is still in it's infancy democracy-wise and the process needs the application of law, fairly and universally. Attempts at bribery whether is has any effect or not is unlawful and the rule of law must be the goal for the future. Thailand has a lot of growing up to do, but I am happy here and wish only the best for my chosen home.

[haroldcane]

Fair comment, playing the democratic, "everyone has a right to vote" card is not unreasonable. But stop for a moment and challenge that right, do they really have a right to vote when they allow their vote to be bought and/or as in the West in countries like the UK where they don't vote at all? I suggest no they don't, I think under those circumstances people perhaps might even get to loose their vote entirely. But regardless of what we each might think on this point, one thing is clear, no election will ever be free fair and representative as long as votes are allowed to be bought by the rural poor, in that respect I wonder if the country is actually ready for democracy.

The people have a right to choose whomever for whatever reason. It is the job of the politicians to present themselves as the better choice. A politician has the right to make campaign promises. If the opposition cannot present a package that is more attractive, then they must educate the people as to why their opponents are being irresponsible with their promises.

It is a crime for politicians to give money in exchange for votes. But it is the job of the courts to determine if that happened. The fact that it does happen in Thailand so openly exposes a major flaw in the application of law, but it does not mean that people should lose their right to vote. It means the system needs to become accountable. Accountability can only come from the voting pubic, without a mandate from the people conspiracy is inevitable.

Without the right to vote, citizens become wards of the state, instead of the government being employees of the people. Without accountability the door is open for complete abuse of power, History has shown this to be a likely scenario. Every Tyrant starts out appearing to apply the law, only to disregard it when power is consolidated.

The only completely irresponsible thing Thailand can do at this point is to remove the right to vote. It is treason and a predictable result would be civil war.

...Taking away the vote from responsible working citizens will inevitably lead to tyranny.

Suthep's rejection of the House dissolution is worrying to me, because it smacks of abandonment of the democratic process.

It's not scientific by any means, but every Thai person I have ever questioned about the money packets handed out on or before election day seem to have a good chuckle about it. They are happy to take the money, the family will eat a little better that week. And they often times receive these "gifts" from more than one candidate. But when it is time to vote they vote their conscience, regardless of who gave them what out on the street. I honestly don't think it matters to them who is handing out the money because they know who they are going to vote for.

Thailand is still in it's infancy democracy-wise and the process needs the application of law, fairly and universally. Attempts at bribery whether is has any effect or not is unlawful and the rule of law must be the goal for the future. Thailand has a lot of growing up to do, but I am happy here and wish only the best for my chosen home.

1. responsible working citizens? where are they? those who sell their votes to a greedy billionaire are totaly irresposible!

2. suthep did not vote for the house dissolution, why his 'rejection' worries you? its totally democratic if someone does not like the government

3. "Thailand is still in it's infancy democracy-wise" so THIS "infancy' needs to be abandoned in a democratic process as described in the constitution

4. you are a joker talking about "money packets" handed out to everybody from every candidate. and vote sellers have a "conscience"???

people who say they receive money from several sides for free are lying & bragging, not conscience-stricken. the vote buyers are not that stupid!

they give the "money packets" to people who oversee the elections & who themselves need to account for every baht they spent

vote sellers need to show their vote before they receive anything. just watch the voting like we did & you see that it isn't 'secret'

especially not in the land of tax-sinners who spread those lies to dwarf their massiv corruption (everybody does it & mine doesn't matter 55555)

5. "I honestly don't think it matters to them who is handing out the money because they know who they are going to vote for"

you have a strange kind of "honesty", obviously the same as "who is handing out the money" that voters "know who they are going to vote for"

potemkin villages: http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z205/JekyllnHyde_photos/May%2024th%202010/321930full.gif

is exactly what the useless & highly paid (many of them by the CIA) foreign election 'observers' see

they can 'observe' nothing even not the banks in their home country were they know all the dirty tricks

http://potemkinsvillage.blogspot.com/2012/06/in-individuals-insanity-is-rare-but-in.html

insanity is: voting for tax-sin & mass-murder again & again expecting a different result