Viber introduces cheaper-than-Skype Int'l calls.

[a10ams]

I pay Skype 11$/month and can call without charge from any country to any country.not all are on the list - but all my countries are there.

To Skype haters - you like it or not,but Skype is in Facebook!I do not mean:"on Facebook",I mean - "in Facebook".

Skype and Facebook video messenger - is the same thing.

That sounds like the same promo plan I mentioned above... In my case, it's $9.99 plus tax per month for unlimited Skype Out calling to regular phone lines in a long list of countries, including landlines and mobiles in the U.S. and Thailand.

I'd never buy minutes from Skype for Skype Out because their rates arent especially good. But 300 baht per month for unlimited calling to regular phone numbers (among the list of designated countries) is a deal that's hard to beat.

Be careful on this. A few years ago I took Skype up on an offer of 'unlimited calls' for a fixed annual price, which included Thai mobiles. The plan was to use Skype while I was in transit to and from work in Azerbaijan.

Basically it would be a couple of calls the day I arrived and a couple of calls 28 days later when I got off the rig. Calls on the company phone were free offshore, plus Skype was not permitted on the rig network. All went well until I was on standby in town for a month and had to use it every day. This resulted in my wife's Thai mobile number being barred. I never renewed the next year.

Four years later the number is still barred despite me now being on a pay as you go / top-up basis. I have corresponded with Skype on this and all they do is spout the same company drivel that this number is 'under investigation'.

I had no idea there were alternatives like Line and Viber, so I will be looking into those right away.

Edited December 11, 2013 by a10ams

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm sure Skype has some fair use provisions for their one price calling plans...though I can't say I know what they are.

I can say this... I've had the Skype one price plan for at least six months now, and it's exclusively used by my wife for her mobile calling. She mainly calls her Mom's Thai mobile number, and they probably average an hour or two total call time per day, each day, to the Mom's same number. And her total call usage isn't much more than that.

In the months we've had the Skype plan so far, no problem at all like the one you described above.

[circusman]

Been using Skype for years and years. I think their calls are very cheap. You should get the subscription though. Im not going to be a lemming and rush to another supposed cheaper option.

[Digitalbanana]

Been using Skype for years and years. I think their calls are very cheap. You should get the subscription though. Im not going to be a lemming and rush to another supposed cheaper option.

Well I am. Always good to have another choice. I've just made a couple of calls to Europe today on Skype - out and Viber - Out. Both crystal clear and my bill much reduced in Viber (thanks to o/p for info on this). Both systems very easy to use.

[Chicog]

I was amazed by the call quality on Viber compared to Skype.

But in fairness I don't do Skype-Mobile or -Landline calls so cost isn't really an issue for me.

[richsilver]

So by using Viber rather than Skype you save 2 baht on a 3 minute call to the US. Wow, that's pretty exciting!

Let's see now what can I buy with 2 baht...

[taiping]

I don't understand the VIBER/SKYPE OUT cost table above.

A SKYPE OUT call to a UK land line costs 2.3 US cents / minute + 4.9 cents connection fee (+ VAT). To a UK mobile costs 25.9 cents / min + 4.9 cents connection fee (+ VAT).

http://www.skype.com/en/rates/

I call mainly land lines so I don't see the advantage of VIBER.

Am I missing something?

Edited December 11, 2013 by taiping

[KittenKong]

It's cheaper, as I pointed out. So why pay more?

If there really is something that makes Viber or Skype in some way better than SIP for outgoing pay calls (or incoming phone calls from landlines or mobiles for that matter) then I would really like to learn what it is.

Cheaper how? If you use Skype-to-Skype, etc., it's free; didn't you say you pay a monthly fee for SIP service?

Yes, but this thread is about using these services for phone calls to/from landlines and mobiles etc. This is what you pay for and as seen above both Skype and Viber charge for this, and they both charge more than most SIP providers do for the same calls.

Inter-SIP calls are completely free also, just like inter-Skype calls. With SIP you only pay for termination and/or a DID, as others have mentioned.

[Chicog]

Ah yes, the number.

As mentioned previously, not really an issue for me, the people that want me find me by name.

[MikeWill]

In reference to SIP, if anybody is using DialNow.com please comment on its quality/services.

[Ulic]

Great info from everyone- Thanks

[KittenKong]

In reference to SIP, if anybody is using DialNow.com please comment on its quality/services.

Not used it but the prices seem good.

[peergin]

Konini: VoipDiscount is a fraudulent outfit. I used my credit card a few times to buy credit so they knew my credit card details. They used these details to purchase merchandise in Luxembourg (that's where their office is). When I found out I did some checking on Google and found websites with lots of complaints from other people who had scary experiences.

One complaint read:

”Doing a quick search on Google I find that I am not the first to have had monies taken by voipdiscount/Betamax without permission – many others report unauthorised charges to their credit/debit cards and PayPal accounts over a period of time – several years in fact. Sums taken are alleged to be from €10 + VAT up to US$2,000!”

(from: http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?7160-WARNING-Voipdiscount-Fraud)

VoipDiscount is the name under which they operate but the company's real name/address is:

DELLMONT Sarl

3a, Val Sainte Croix
L-1371 Luxembourg
Luxembourg

Commercial Register of the Local Court: Luxembourg.
Registered under number: B 143921.
VAT registration number: LU23015703.

I also discovered that Dellmont Sarl uses 28 different websites with which they commit their theft and credit card fraud! Therefore, it may be assumed that the scale of this fraud is very large. Even worse, I found information that it has been going on for years.

Here is a note of caution from an angry user, plus the 28 names:

VOIPDiscount/Betamax companies:

As I mentioned above, Betamax GmbH & Co. KG trades under many different retail and wholesale names – if anyone here uses any of the following websites/services for phone calls and you have saved credit/debit card or PayPal details with them be warned:

12voip
Betamax

BudgetSIP
Calleasy
DialNow
FreeCall
InternetCalls
Intervoip
JustVoip
LowRateVoip
NetAppel
Nonoh
Poivy

Rynga
SIPDiscount
SmartVoiP
SMSdiscount
SmsListo
SparVoip
VoipBuster
VoipBusterPro
VoipCheap
VoipDiscount
VoipRaider
VoipStunt
VoipWise
VoipZoom
WebCallDirect

It is clear from the scale of things and the information in the websites that I found that it is not just one employé but it is the company that is stealing.

There is no way to contact Dellmont, either by phone or by e-mail. They do not respond. I think the only thing you can do is contact the police in Luxembourg. (I have reported it to the Embassy of Luxembourg in Bangkok with a request to report the matter to the police in Luxembourg.)

Here are a couple of sites that you may want to look at in order to confirm the above details. There are more sites but I did not want to waste more time on this matter.

If VoipDiscount and/or any of its affiliates have your credit card or PayPal details I recommend that you cancel these immediately. I cancelled my credit card the day I found out about VoipDiscount’s scams. Naturally, I am also not using them anymore!

Be careful!

[peergin]

Sorry, I forgot to add the links that I mentioned in my above message (# 43):

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26339765-Credit-Card-Fraud-Charges-from-qWWW.DELLMONT.COM-A-LUXEMB

http://www.reviewstalk.com/complaints-reviews/www-dellmont-com-ask-lu-l864.html

http://www.complaintboard.com/www-dellmont-com-ask-lu-l3450.html

[MikeWill]

Thanks a lot for the worning, peergin.

I had some doubts/suspicions that something isn't kosher with these companies.

Now I see that it wasn't baseless.

[peergin]

It's not exactly clear to what that graphic above refers: is it for calls within each country listed or between countries, and if so which? My guess is the former

VoIP operators typically charge on a termination basis; that is, the rate is how much you pay to get a call to a particular destination. It doesn't matter if you're in the same country or on Mars.

Call charges that vary based on where you're sitting at the moment only apply when you're going through your local phone network, not when you're bypassing it via VoIP.

So to answer your question, the answer to "within or between?" is "both", and to "from which country?" is "all". The UK rate shown is their rate for calls from the UK to the UK and for calls from Mongolia to the UK. It's just their rate to the UK.

And yes, the Viber rates are still extremely expensive compared to SIP discounters. Better than high-price leader Skype, though.

Can you list some of these SIP discounters?

There's a German (I think) outfit called Betamax that operates a big wholesale market and provides a white-label platform for companies to run their own SIP brands. Between them you can usually find something with pleasing rates to your preferred destinations. There's a comparison chart here: http://backsla.sh/betamax

Gentlemen, please see posts 43 AND 44 !!!!!!!!!

[rajulkabir]

I don't know about these reports of fraud. I do know that I've been using various Betamax affiliates for almost 10 years on a near-daily basis and nobody's scammed my cards. Just one data point.

[MikeWill]

I don't know about these reports of fraud. I do know that I've been using various Betamax affiliates for almost 10 years on a near-daily basis and nobody's scammed my cards. Just one data point.

Now you know.

The question is, would continue to use them (and sleep well)?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Been using Skype for years and years. I think their calls are very cheap. You should get the subscription though. Im not going to be a lemming and rush to another supposed cheaper option.

Well I am. Always good to have another choice. I've just made a couple of calls to Europe today on Skype - out and Viber - Out. Both crystal clear and my bill much reduced in Viber (thanks to o/p for info on this). Both systems very easy to use.

Regarding Skype, Viber, et al... I don't think it's an either-or situation... It's easy to use BOTH.

With Skype, I use their one-price monthly fee calling plan and pay $10 for basically unlimited calling to any landline or mobile number in Thailand (along with the same plan offering that service to many other included countries such as the U.S.).

In other words, I can use that Skype plan at very low cost to make calls from my PC or my smartphone using their Skype app to regular, non Internet phone numbers. So if I'm going to call True Online and expect to be on hold for quite a while, it's a Skype call for sure rather than my mobile phone.

But, for me, the Skype Android app is pretty un-user-friendly and I don't use the Windows app often enough to warrant keeping it open on my PC.

So when I comes to calling family members or friends who are Internet savvy, I always use crossplatform (Windows and smartphone) apps like LINE or Tango or Viber, which allow data-based voice or video calls to other app users for free. And unlike Skype, they're pretty unobtrusive and function quietly in the background without hogging system resources.

[jpinx]

..........

So when I comes to calling family members or friends who are Internet savvy, I always use crossplatform (Windows and smartphone) apps like LINE or Tango or Viber, which allow data-based voice or video calls to other app users for free. And unlike Skype, they're pretty unobtrusive and function quietly in the background without hogging system resources.

Are you saying that it's free to call a Line user from Viber, etc ?

[hvdkerkh]

In reference to SIP, if anybody is using DialNow.com please comment on its quality/services.

Yes, I´m using it. Good quality connection and very cheap for reaching mobile numbers in Holland.

[hvdkerkh]

I don't know about these reports of fraud. I do know that I've been using various Betamax affiliates for almost 10 years on a near-daily basis and nobody's scammed my cards. Just one data point.

Now you know.

The question is, would continue to use them (and sleep well)?

Never heard about any Betamax scams before. I´m using their services also for 10 years and many of my family members, friends and colleagues as well.

I´m not afraid at all continuing using them.

[Konini]

I don't know about these reports of fraud. I do know that I've been using various Betamax affiliates for almost 10 years on a near-daily basis and nobody's scammed my cards. Just one data point.

Now you know.

The question is, would continue to use them (and sleep well)?

I have been using and giving money to Betamax affiliate VoipDiscount for around 8 years without any problem whatsoever. The billing name on my credit card statements and Paypal account is Dellmont Sarl (so they're doing a pretty poor job of hiding who they really are).

In this instance, you have cited one person (you) who has had a problem and there are two of us here (myself and rajuklabir) with a combined usage of 18 years who haven't had a single problem. I know of several others, friends who I've put onto it, who also use it without problem, but I don't count these; this is 2 people giving 1st hand anecdotal evidence.

EDIT: Make that 3 - hvdkerkh

Some people complain, many more are happy or Dellmont Sarl wouldn't still be in business. Rouge employees are everywhere, more than one rouge employee over time doesn't mean that the company itself is corrupt, and how many people have zero security/common sense and their device has been compromised at the user end rather than company end? That's without mentioning the fact that VOIP business is very lucrative and competitive, review sites are know to sometimes be filled with companies badmouthing competitors. I'm not saying the reviews are fake, just pointing out the fact that it does happens in all highly competitive markets.

I think you do a disservice to the company with a blanket statement that they are a fraudulent operation. Libel laws would make most think twice about making such a statement. Last month I found a charge against my credit card I hadn't made. When I phoned the bank and said a charge by a telephone company, the lady said 'O2 again, is it? GBP30? We've had loads of these lately, you're my 5th one today!'. My account was credited the next working day, and I wouldn't dream of saying, much less publicly stating, that O2 is a fraudulent company because a lot of people are having their accounts charged by them.

I will continue to use them and sleep very well, and would do so even without the knowledge that depending on the method of payment I've chosen for the transactions, Paypal or my bank, will give me my money back as soon as I lodge a dispute.

I'm a very happy customer.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Konini

[KittenKong]

It seems unlikely to me that the Betamax clones could be scamming people as described after 10 years in business. They would surely have had their Paypal or Visa merchant account suspended by now if they were.

Personally my UK credit card offers 100% protection against fraudulent charging so I'm not unduly bothered about the possibility. I would never use a credit/debit card that didn't offer 100% fraud protection though.

Even so I dont actually use Betamax clones because for my needs there are other services that are better/cheaper.

[MikeWill]

Re: SIF

I can probably safe a few bucks. But I don't thing that the risk is justifiable in my case, taking into account my calling needs (calling time per month).

For sure, I will not recommend this service to my friends and I'll sleep better not using it myself.

[KittenKong]

Re: SIF

I can probably safe a few bucks. But I don't thing that the risk is justifiable in my case, taking into account my calling needs (calling time per month).

For sure, I will not recommend this service to my friends and I'll sleep better not using it myself.

What risk? It's a phone service not a heart transplant.

Do you lose sleep over which brand of washing up liquid you use also?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

..........

So when I comes to calling family members or friends who are Internet savvy, I always use crossplatform (Windows and smartphone) apps like LINE or Tango or Viber, which allow data-based voice or video calls to other app users for free. And unlike Skype, they're pretty unobtrusive and function quietly in the background without hogging system resources.

Are you saying that it's free to call a Line user from Viber, etc ?

No... of course not.

The free voice and/or video calls via data over the Internet are:

Viber to Viber

Tango to Tango

Line to Line

as you would expect.

[MikeWill]

Re: SIF

I can probably safe a few bucks. But I don't thing that the risk is justifiable in my case, taking into account my calling needs (calling time per month).

For sure, I will not recommend this service to my friends and I'll sleep better not using it myself.

What risk? It's a phone service not a heart transplant.

Do you lose sleep over which brand of washing up liquid you use also?

Have you read post #44 ?

Or, just maybe, you have some interest in promoting the SIP. Do you?

At least, this can explain the personal tone of your reply.

[rajulkabir]

I don't know about these reports of fraud. I do know that I've been using various Betamax affiliates for almost 10 years on a near-daily basis and nobody's scammed my cards. Just one data point.

Now you know.

The question is, would continue to use them (and sleep well)?

Yeah, sure, they've saved me thousands over the years and I've experienced no fraud.

I'm not terribly worried about credit card fraud since the bank always takes care of it, but I'd also tend to discount this particular sort of allegation against a company that's been around for such a long time. It doesn't really make sense that they'd be engaged in such obvious and un-subtle crime against their customers. Maybe it was an isolated incident or something, or a misunderstanding, or a grudge. In either case I'll comfortably rely on my bank's protections.

[KittenKong]

What risk? It's a phone service not a heart transplant.

Do you lose sleep over which brand of washing up liquid you use also?

Have you read post #44 ?

Or, just maybe, you have some interest in promoting the SIP. Do you?

At least, this can explain the personal tone of your reply.

Yes, I read it. Did you read my comments about credit card fraud in another post? I dont care about it because my bank takes the risk, not me.

And no, I have no personal interest in this company at all. I dont even use this particular company in fact and I wasnt actually promoting them, just curious as to what sort of risk you think you might be running by using them. I see no risk.

I do know that SIP providers are generally cheaper than Skype and appear to be cheaper than Viber also, which seems a good enough reason to consider them to me.