Thinking Of Moving Daughters And I To Thailand?

[gary and kids]

I have two daughters 12 and 13 their mother passed away last year. We do not speak Thai (except the polite stuff- hello, thank you ,how much ect...) we visited Thailand for a month in Jan/feb.06 and fell in love with it.We are returning to Thailand in July this year for another month to explore and see if it's a place we really want to live.

We would like to stay at least a year in Thailand, maybe in Phuket or Ko Samui where we have friends living now(though they don't have children).I have an income from the U.S that would allow us to live there comfortably. My girl's go to public school here in Seattle but would be up to going to privet or public school in Thailand.

After visiting Thailand I could not stop thinking that it may be a much better place to raise my girls for a while, after experiencing the Thai's appreciation for the family and elders,their open hearts and love for their country and King. Not to mention there's not multiple murders and extreme crimes happening EVERY NIGHT and generally very little respect for family and elders like there is here.

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated

[vinny]

See Which Visa Should I Apply For? and also List of Schools.

[gary and kids]

See Which Visa Should I Apply For? and also List of Schools.

Vinny,

Thank's for the info on schools and visas. -gary

[lopburi3]

Unless your girls attend one of the Bangkok based International Schools (run for diplomatic community) at a very high cost do not believe you will be doing them any favors. As for crime it is here just as any place else. This happens to have one of the highest murder rates in the world. As for family much of what you see is superficial and there are all the problems here that you face anywhere else. Motorcycle gangs, drugs, etc. are just as common here as there. You seem to be looking through a tourists rose tinted glasses. The real Thailand is not going to be the same.

Thailand is fine for many; but most have Thai connections that compensate for any negatives. I would advise you to visit for a bit longer before making a decision that could severely effect your daughters and there chance of advancement. Please take it slow.

As there was no visa question in this post am moving to family.

[vinny]

See also Crime in Thailand, Crime and the Police in Thailand, and Bangkok as Crime Central.

[gary and kids]

See also Crime in Thailand, Crime and the Police in Thailand, and Bangkok as Crime Central.

Thank you for your posts,I appreciate all your views, even the(not so) Harsh ones.

First I do realize Thailand is not perfect and does have crime and yes yaa baa(Meth here in the states) and murder ect... Although if you check these rates against cities in the U.S it's much lower than Thailands.I did much walking around Bangkok and other cities at night while we were there and from my experience found it much safer than Seattle,no one offered me drugs,sex,or seemed overly intimidating which happens all the time here in the states (a friend of mine was recently hospitalized just for saying hello to someone downtown here,EVERY morning I wake up hearing about another shooting,rape or abduction this list goes on and on....).I know there's crime in Thailand I believe it's just not as prevalent as it is in the here, it seems most Thais don't appear to be as "hel_l bent on killing each other".

I also realize kids learn respect(and more) from their parents. I'm blessed my girls have respect for others, although living in a place where elders are cast aside like an old pair of shoes,your not cool unless you have the newest car, i-pod,or cell phone ect..doesn't make it any easier.

Our experience (and some good Thai friend's) from talking to kid's there they are not as caught up in this vicious cycle as they are here in the states, although I know this happens to some degree every where.It seems Thai people (even the very poor) are much more grateful for what they have than I've seen in the here in the U.S,Canada,and most of Europe.

As far as schooling go's, unless your in one of the top privet schools here in the U.S most of our schools are failing our kids(according to our own statistics) collage is another thing.

my children and I are coping with the loss of their mother(almost 2 yrs.ago) quite well,they really seem to want to move to Thailand for a while (not forever)and we are taking it slow traveling there a few times before making any real decisions.

I do appreciate the devil's advocate roll (i do it myself often)that's why Im trying to get as much feed back as possible from all kinds of people.I appreciate any other advice on schools,Visas,and other?

Thank you all soo much-- GARY and KIDS

[Nawtilus]

You said you have enough funds to live, does that include the associated extra costs of living here, health, the best schools you can afford, these are around 250k to 400k per term with 3 terms in a year generally.

Also remember your daughters are coming of age, do you really want them fooling around with Thai boys and the disregard they have for sex, partners and safety ?? Your girls being white and maturing, maybe not immediately at 12 and 13, but very soon, will be prime attractions for young Thai bucks and it is considered high on the score card for them to score with a white girl.

Boys and men start harrassing the girls at a very young age here. My wife moved her niece out of the country area to live with us for this very reason when she was 14yo. They were even considering moving a younger one as it can happen.

[zoltannyc]

Nawtilus:

You are painting a very dark picture here. While I understand that white girls can be an attraction, I don’t think that they would be in any more danger than in a regular US high school.

Btw: do you know how bad are the big city high schools in the US?

My wife and her sisters went to very good high schools in BKK (King’s high school, Catholic Convent) and they never had any problems. I had (have) several collegeues in BKK with kids in ISB http://www.isb.ac.th/ and they never had problems either.

Fees: yes they can be steep see : http://www.isb.ac.th/Tuition_&_Fees however you may find some other cheaper good schools around.

Regards

[Nawtilus]

Not 'can', 'will' be an attraction.

Especially when you look at the areas he said he was thinking to live with them, phuket and samui !!

I know from fact the young guys down these ways pride themselves in bagging the white girls, the surf guys, the dive guys, the tour guys. They brag about it relentlessy the free white pussy they get because they are considered the 'cool' guys it is just something the OP needs to think about. He said he wants the devils advocate, here be me !!

[gary and kids]

Not 'can', 'will' be an attraction.

Especially when you look at the areas he said he was thinking to live with them, phuket and samui !!

I know from fact the young guys down these ways pride themselves in bagging the white girls, the surf guys, the dive guys, the tour guys. They brag about it relentlessy the free white pussy they get because they are considered the 'cool' guys it is just something the OP needs to think about. He said he wants the devils advocate, here be me !!

Nawtils---

I do agree my girl's will be an attraction,But that can happen where ever we go.Although it seems to happen here in the U.S a lot more than it did in Thailand.They got a few looks from boy's (not from older men though) and one young Thai boy did tell me he wanted to marry my 13 yo. when she got older, but he and I were joking around a bit too (he had a girlfriend).In all I find Thai boy's much less aggressive than American and european, the Thais seem to look a lot but don't really try to do as much.I believe" From what I have seen in Thailand I have to watch out for the french and Italian men even more"(witch I'm half French and 1/2 Italian)they seemed to be the most aggressive.

My girl's seem to have a good sense of what some boy's are really interested in and can stand their own ground quite well(they are not a push over by any means).Never the less I'll have to keep a close eye on them where ever we go.

As far as the schooling go's I talked about that before in my other post.I think the experience of living and traveling in Thailand will help educate my girl's beyond what most schools can do here for them here in the U.S.

-----Thank's again for all your input, it's all helping me a lot

[mittheimp]

If your daughters go to a international style school then I dont think there is a lot to worry about. Most middle class Thais - all generations - tend to be much more conservative than there western counterparts.

Dont wish to be rude to previous posters - but its highly likely that the mix of friends your daughters will find, will be very different in background to the type of people a lot of the posters on this forum knock around with!

Edited May 15, 2006 by mittheimp

[PeaceBlondie]

I don't know; it's a real gamble. Even after three years of coming here on my own, it still boggles my mind that I had the nerve to uproot myself and move across the world. Alien culture, alien language, alien customs, etc., and YOU are the alien!!

I raised six kids, including three girls. For some children, moving from place to place can be very traumatic (even from Oklahoma to Texas!!) Other teenagers seem to thrive on it.

The truly rich Thais and the wealthy expatriates can still afford to encase themselves in a fantasy bubble, and can remain culturally conservative, if they wish (although the nouveau riche and the hi-so crowd can be very materialistic). Sociology is only one of my undergraduate minors, but I still feel that Thai culture is rapidly disintegrating with modern media. The Thailand that your wives or their mothers experienced in the 1950's is already long gone, as are the heritages that most of us lived through. The 21st century is very challenging for parents of teenagers, anywhere in the world.

Thank God, your girls have weathered the greatest crisis of their lives. They may or may not be ready to go through the crisis of losing most of what they've always known about how people live. No, I wouldn't do it, and I may be the angel's advocate for saying so.

[Thaiboxer]

There are lots of advantages to raising kids over here, but since your kids are already in their teens this presents more of a challenge since they will leave the world they have grown up in. With regards to the Thai men chasing after them, motorcycle gangs and drugs, you have that pretty much everywhere and the US is certainly no exception (I'm from Southeast Florida). I would heed the same advice once given to somebody interested in coming here to live/work. Take an extended holiday here...say a good three months. Do lots of traveling around and pay close attention to how your girls are taking in their new surroundings, culture, etc. Hook up with other foreigners in the same boat and consult with them. Do LOTS of research on the ups and downs of living/schools in different parts of the country, not to mention other things you and your family can enjoy during the holidays. Keep in mind that in addition to good international schools being expensive, they can also alienate kids from their Thai surroundings which can lead to problems with socializing later on. Some expat kids really thrive and have a positive experience when going to live overseas while others run into trouble. If you do your reasearch and look after them as you would anywhere in the States you should be fine with whatever decision you make. Good luck!

[GuestHouse]

I take a slightly different view on this.

My first question is, what do your daughters want, where do they want to live?

You have just lost your wife, they have just lost their mother, but importantly at the very time in life when daughters need support from their mothers. I hope you are addressing this question, if not I implore you to seek some help and guidance on this issue.

Can I make an observation.

From my own experience and observation, most professional expatriates in Thailand, that is those who are assigned to work in Thailand by their employers and who enjoy the benefits of funded education, health care programs, family support groups etc (The full expat package) return home when their children enter their teens. They do so for all the social, educational and personal development reasons that are important to the development of young people.

If parents (myself included) who have access to the very best education in Thailand make that choice, you need to ask yourself why?

One of the reasons is of course their/our/your children are not Thai, their future is very unlikely to be in Thailand and remaining in Thailand/moving to Thailand at a age critical to education and personal development greatly limits the choices these children would have in later life.

In your particular case you would also be removing your children from their own culture and the links they have with their culture and their recently lost mother.

Secondly I think you need to examine your own motives for moving to Thailand, an odd choice, yes you had a great holiday there, yes you have some friends their, but are your able to cope with the move, are you able to manage life for your daughters. I think this is an issue relating to grief and I would urge you to at least talk to someone about that.

Again, from my own personal experience of being an expatriate (I’ve lived overseas for 19 years - I’m overseas now). Very common indicators of people who fail to make a success of their move overseas are:

Moving overseas to escape a problem (Debt/Family Strife)

Moving overseas immediately after divorce (in the first two or three years)

Moving overseas immediately after grief (in the first two or three years)

Moving overseas with any kind of an addiction (Alcohol/Gambling/Drugs)

I haven’t written that out for your specially, it is straight out of my employer’s overseas assignment manual and something I have both observed to be correct and frequently posted here on TV.

I really do urge you to talk to someone about the decisions you are making and the part your recent grief is playing in those decisions. – Please do, if your decisions are sound you will, I am sure receive help and support in sorting out your ideas, if they are affected by grief and are in need of examination, then the help available might save you and your daughters a great deal of trouble – All gain and no loss.

Finally, I’d like to pass some of my own observations on Thai life for growing children, not to counter your own views, but to add some balance.

I have lived in Thailand for over twelve years, I am fluent in Thai, I worked for a major international corporation and I had the privilege of working with some of the brightest and best educated Thais (male and female) that the Thai education system produces. I have a daughter and a son.

My wife and I were constantly bothered by the subliminal messages that Thai society passes to boys and girls, defining roles based on a culture that is not that of our children. Worse still at work I listened to the constant banter, women (and I’m talking the top of the Thai educational tree here) seen and treated as objects. As a department manager I had to deal with two cases of sexual abuse, one of which was extremely serious, an experience that was more worrying, not just because of the attacks, which happen the world over, but because of the systematic abuse of the victims and their good name. Every part of our Thai organization and management turned on the victims (women) to protect their attackers.

I had a very senior member of our Thai staff tell me that a rapist should be forgiven and allowed to continue in his job because he has a family of his own and that his victim should be ‘moved out of the office’ to prevent embarrassment for the ‘good family’ of the rapist.

That might be extreme, but it was educated Thais expressing the values of Thai society with respect to men/women and their roles. Not the smiling holiday faces, but real attitudes of real Thai people. Not what I want my daughter, or son to grow up with.

Again, I urge you to talk to a grief councilor, your children’s school, aunts, uncles, grandparents. There is a whole lot more at stake than you perhaps realize.

[gary and kids]

I take a slightly different view on this.

My first question is, what do your daughters want, where do they want to live?

You have just lost your wife, they have just lost their mother, but importantly at the very time in life when daughters need support from their mothers. I hope you are addressing this question, if not I implore you to seek some help and guidance on this issue.

Can I make an observation.

From my own experience and observation, most professional expatriates in Thailand, that is those who are assigned to work in Thailand by their employers and who enjoy the benefits of funded education, health care programs, family support groups etc (The full expat package) return home when their children enter their teens. They do so for all the social, educational and personal development reasons that are important to the development of young people.

If parents (myself included) who have access to the very best education in Thailand make that choice, you need to ask yourself why?

One of the reasons is of course their/our/your children are not Thai, their future is very unlikely to be in Thailand and remaining in Thailand/moving to Thailand at a age critical to education and personal development greatly limits the choices these children would have in later life.

In your particular case you would also be removing your children from their own culture and the links they have with their culture and their recently lost mother.

Secondly I think you need to examine your own motives for moving to Thailand, an odd choice, yes you had a great holiday there, yes you have some friends their, but are your able to cope with the move, are you able to manage life for your daughters. I think this is an issue relating to grief and I would urge you to at least talk to someone about that.

Again, from my own personal experience of being an expatriate (I’ve lived overseas for 19 years - I’m overseas now). Very common indicators of people who fail to make a success of their move overseas are:

Moving overseas to escape a problem (Debt/Family Strife)

Moving overseas immediately after divorce (in the first two or three years)

Moving overseas immediately after grief (in the first two or three years)

Moving overseas with any kind of an addiction (Alcohol/Gambling/Drugs)

I haven’t written that out for your specially, it is straight out of my employer’s overseas assignment manual and something I have both observed to be correct and frequently posted here on TV.

I really do urge you to talk to someone about the decisions you are making and the part your recent grief is playing in those decisions. – Please do, if your decisions are sound you will, I am sure receive help and support in sorting out your ideas, if they are affected by grief and are in need of examination, then the help available might save you and your daughters a great deal of trouble – All gain and no loss.

Finally, I’d like to pass some of my own observations on Thai life for growing children, not to counter your own views, but to add some balance.

I have lived in Thailand for over twelve years, I am fluent in Thai, I worked for a major international corporation and I had the privilege of working with some of the brightest and best educated Thais (male and female) that the Thai education system produces. I have a daughter and a son.

My wife and I were constantly bothered by the subliminal messages that Thai society passes to boys and girls, defining roles based on a culture that is not that of our children. Worse still at work I listened to the constant banter, women (and I’m talking the top of the Thai educational tree here) seen and treated as objects. As a department manager I had to deal with two cases of sexual abuse, one of which was extremely serious, an experience that was more worrying, not just because of the attacks, which happen the world over, but because of the systematic abuse of the victims and their good name. Every part of our Thai organization and management turned on the victims (women) to protect their attackers.

I had a very senior member of our Thai staff tell me that a rapist should be forgiven and allowed to continue in his job because he has a family of his own and that his victim should be ‘moved out of the office’ to prevent embarrassment for the ‘good family’ of the rapist.

That might be extreme, but it was educated Thais expressing the values of Thai society with respect to men/women and their roles. Not the smiling holiday faces, but real attitudes of real Thai people. Not what I want my daughter, or son to grow up with.

Again, I urge you to talk to a grief councilor, your children’s school, aunts, uncles, grandparents. There is a whole lot more at stake than you perhaps realize.

--Thank you all for your advice and opinions they help a lot.

I would like to say again, my girls really seem to like the idea of moving to Thailand, and we don't plan on staying forever only a year or so (depending on visa restrictions and what THEY want).

I do realize Thailand is not a perfect place, and I could tell some boy's/men are raised to think their better than girls,A lot of the stories I've heard about the downsides of Thailand are still prevalent( if not more so) here in the states.I could see wanting my children to return to the U.S if they had been living there for a long time in Thailand.I do agree one should not move any where to escape the situation they're in, whether it's debt,grief,divorce,or any other outside force.My daughter's and I have gone to grief counseling and just counseling, witch they finished with the blessings of their counselors after a year and a half.

They really seem to like Thailand! but we are visiting there again this summer to see if it's a place we really want to move to for a while.The girl's apparently like the Thai kid's and people in general, they seemed to get along well with them despite the language barrier sometimes.Moving to Thailand i don't believe would be a crisis for them, or I would not do it.

I believe moving to Thailand just might open (not limit) their possibilities in personal development, I'm not sure what your experience is but most people I have met that have traveled seem more open to others views and opinions than their counter parts who haven't.my girl's would also be able to keep link to their counter parts through the computer(my space ect...)just as they do now,it seems kid's these days use the computer more than the phone or face to face to socialize with each other.

I do agree with much of the advice given here,visit as much as possible,talk with as many people as I can about it ,don't do it for the wrong reasons,make sure the kid's are all right with it.

-----Thanks again for all the advice and views it's all a great help .

--P.S any info on what kind of visas would allow us to stay in Thailand for up to a year would be greatly appreciated

[GuestHouse]

P.S any info on what kind of visas would allow us to stay in Thailand for up to a year would be greatly appreciated

Your only real option is tourist visas and visa runs. Not ideal and certainly not acceptable for settling.

In response to your reply above, I still feel your talking around the issue. Go talk to some about your plans - If your plans are sound you loose nothing but the time confirming your views.

[kat]

... From my own experience and observation, most professional expatriates in Thailand, that is those who are assigned to work in Thailand by their employers and who enjoy the benefits of funded education, health care programs, family support groups etc (The full expat package) return home when their children enter their teens. They do so for all the social, educational and personal development reasons that are important to the development of young people.

If parents (myself included) who have access to the very best education in Thailand make that choice, you need to ask yourself why? ...

Finally, I’d like to pass some of my own observations on Thai life for growing children, not to counter your own views, but to add some balance.

I have lived in Thailand for over twelve years, I am fluent in Thai, I worked for a major international corporation and I had the privilege of working with some of the brightest and best educated Thais (male and female) that the Thai education system produces. I have a daughter and a son.

My wife and I were constantly bothered by the subliminal messages that Thai society passes to boys and girls, defining roles based on a culture that is not that of our children. Worse still at work I listened to the constant banter, women (and I’m talking the top of the Thai educational tree here) seen and treated as objects. As a department manager I had to deal with two cases of sexual abuse, one of which was extremely serious, an experience that was more worrying, not just because of the attacks, which happen the world over, but because of the systematic abuse of the victims and their good name. Every part of our Thai organization and management turned on the victims (women) to protect their attackers.

I had a very senior member of our Thai staff tell me that a rapist should be forgiven and allowed to continue in his job because he has a family of his own and that his victim should be ‘moved out of the office’ to prevent embarrassment for the ‘good family’ of the rapist.

That might be extreme, but it was educated Thais expressing the values of Thai society with respect to men/women and their roles. Not the smiling holiday faces, but real attitudes of real Thai people. Not what I want my daughter, or son to grow up with.

Again, I urge you to talk to a grief councilor, your children’s school, aunts, uncles, grandparents. There is a whole lot more at stake than you perhaps realize.

...I do realize Thailand is not a perfect place, and I could tell some boy's/men are raised to think their better than girls,A lot of the stories I've heard about the downsides of Thailand are still prevalent( if not more so) here in the states ...

You really have no idea what you're talking about here, Gary. How can you make that kind of comparison if you've never lived in Thailand, and obviously know very little? You can't, and are simply making a generalization based on what you perceive to be similarities, without accounting for, or even being aware of, degrees and scope. I am an American woman who has lived here for 4 years, and I can attest to the veracity of what Guesthouse has stated to you.

*edit: btw, Guesthouse, can you tell me when this sexual abuse incident occurred?

Edited May 17, 2006 by kat

[gary and kids]

P.S any info on what kind of visas would allow us to stay in Thailand for up to a year would be greatly appreciated

Your only real option is tourist visas and visa runs. Not ideal and certainly not acceptable for settling.

In response to your reply above, I still feel your talking around the issue. Go talk to some about your plans - If your plans are sound you loose nothing but the time confirming your views.

---Thanks again Guesthouse for views and info-

do you know anything about the "multiple entry non-immigrant O visa" is it possible to do that, instead of tourist visa?

[Khun Jean]

I lived here for a while and can confirm the superficiality and disrespect for 'lower class' people. Woman are lowerclass and seen more as objects. At a much higher scale than in a western world. If someone gets caught the guilt is put on the woman. At least in the west some justice is done.

My daughter is 4 years old, and i already have to defend her from older boys. Boys here grow up without any parental guidance, they can do what they want. Next time here observe the difference between man and woman and how they interact with people. You will see a big difference in showing respect and decency.

When you are on holiday here you are treated as a guest, a money spending guest. You should not use that as a reference. During your holiday you are 'high class', once you live here you will be the 'lowest class'. Maybe not in your presence, but surely behind your back. The subject would often be how stupid someone can be to bring his two daughters to Thailand when he already has a 'perfect' live in the US. That is how you will be judged by Thais.

I often disagreed with my Thai wife about the suitability of Thailand as a place to live and grow up your children. Slowly she showed me and convinced me it is not a good idea.

I would also advice against other advises here to travel around a lot. That way you are still a tourist and will be unable to pick up important signals.

I suggest finding a place and stay put for at least 6 months.

I have been to the States on holiday a few times. My feeling was that living there would be great.

Grass is greener......

Of course news about the USA is more available and its more easy to find good information.

It might even be a good idea to move location within the USA. If citylive is getting to you there seems to be a lot of choices left in that vast country.

Still, a year or so living in Thailand, with a safety net still in your own country to return to, can be a good experience and a big eye opener.

Especially if you stay around Phuket/Samui you will notice that schools are not that great, do the research now for schools so you won't be surprised/disappointed.

BTW this 'tropical paradise' feeling will be replaced by 'just another place to live' with all its good and bad points in a few months. Reality will catch up quick.

[gary and kids]

... From my own experience and observation, most professional expatriates in Thailand, that is those who are assigned to work in Thailand by their employers and who enjoy the benefits of funded education, health care programs, family support groups etc (The full expat package) return home when their children enter their teens. They do so for all the social, educational and personal development reasons that are important to the development of young people.

If parents (myself included) who have access to the very best education in Thailand make that choice, you need to ask yourself why? ...

Finally, I’d like to pass some of my own observations on Thai life for growing children, not to counter your own views, but to add some balance.

I have lived in Thailand for over twelve years, I am fluent in Thai, I worked for a major international corporation and I had the privilege of working with some of the brightest and best educated Thais (male and female) that the Thai education system produces. I have a daughter and a son.

My wife and I were constantly bothered by the subliminal messages that Thai society passes to boys and girls, defining roles based on a culture that is not that of our children. Worse still at work I listened to the constant banter, women (and I’m talking the top of the Thai educational tree here) seen and treated as objects. As a department manager I had to deal with two cases of sexual abuse, one of which was extremely serious, an experience that was more worrying, not just because of the attacks, which happen the world over, but because of the systematic abuse of the victims and their good name. Every part of our Thai organization and management turned on the victims (women) to protect their attackers.

I had a very senior member of our Thai staff tell me that a rapist should be forgiven and allowed to continue in his job because he has a family of his own and that his victim should be ‘moved out of the office’ to prevent embarrassment for the ‘good family’ of the rapist.

That might be extreme, but it was educated Thais expressing the values of Thai society with respect to men/women and their roles. Not the smiling holiday faces, but real attitudes of real Thai people. Not what I want my daughter, or son to grow up with.

Again, I urge you to talk to a grief councilor, your children’s school, aunts, uncles, grandparents. There is a whole lot more at stake than you perhaps realize.

...I do realize Thailand is not a perfect place, and I could tell some boy's/men are raised to think their better than girls,A lot of the stories I've heard about the downsides of Thailand are still prevalent( if not more so) here in the states ...

You really have no idea what you're talking about here, Gary. How can you make that kind of comparison if you've never lived in Thailand, and obviously know very little? You can't, and are simply making a generalization based on what you perceive to be similarities, without accounting for, or even being aware of, degrees and scope. I am an American woman who has lived here for 4 years, and I can attest to the veracity of what Guesthouse has stated to you.

*edit: btw, Guesthouse, can you tell me when this sexual abuse incident occurred?

---Your absolutely right KAT,

I have never lived in Thailand so I don't know exactly how all Thai men treat woman.All I do know is how they are treated here in the U.S and Canada and the month we stayed in Thailand, and in my view they were treated (for the most part) with much more respect while we were visiting Thailand.The Thais seemed to have more respect for families by far than they do here in the states,and maybe it's because my girls are quite self-confident and don't take a lot of crap from people (especially boy's).

But never the less it's something I (and they) would have to watch out for if we move there (or any where).I do know two american woman who have lived in Thailand who really loved it for the most part (One still doe's),and it seems there's a few here on the forum (you included) that are doing o.k for themselves in Thailand.

-- I know Thailand is not a perfect place, just one that we would like to live and experience for a little while. Thank's for your views kat

[Khun Jean]

I have to add some observations i made with close family.

My wifes sister has two daughters 11 and 12.

This family is middle class, both man and wife have good jobs and on top of that they have a small minimart.

They get up very early in the morning to prepare everything for their shop and then bring their children to school. They go to work, take leave from work to pick up their children and bring them home. The childrens grandmother will take care of them. Then back to work. After work the father educates his children further and overseeing that they do their homework.

They are NEVER alone. They can visit a friend, but they have to know the family first. The children are in western eyes overly protected.

When i saw that i looked how others treat their children, and to my surprise it is very common.

Look at some older girls, you will see them always in pairs. Almost never alone. It says something about the environment. And this signal is not a good one.

[KhunMarco]

At the end of the day, one year is not the end of the world.

First off if Thailand was such an awful place, these farangs wouldn't live here. Instead most of "us" arrive here and are touched by the people, want to interact with them, got married etc.

The same people who this nation is capable to "produce".

Good for them but not for you and your daughters Gary?

Ah yup and naysayers are usually prone to spread their negativities, content people usually don't bother.

It's not my intention to show disrespect to the opinion of the other posters , just my thought.

Edited May 17, 2006 by KhunMarco

[gary and kids]

At the end of the day, one year is not the end of the world.

First off if Thailand was such an awful place, these farangs wouldn't live here. Instead most of "us" arrive here and are touched by the people, want to interact with them, got married etc.

The same people who this nation is capable to "produce".

Good for them but not for you and your daughters Gary?

Ah yup and naysayers are usually prone to spread their negativities, content people usually don't bother.

It's not my intention to show disrespect to the opinion of the other posters , just my thought.

------WOW you guy's are the best, I truly respect all your opinions very much and "thank the computer god's for forums like these"

-It seems to me I'm judged where ever I go, and that's o.k because I always say "what ever people want to do with their spare time is up to them" I just need to be concerned how I act.

Again - Thank you all very much for your opinions they help a lot

[skylar]

I don't know how long it has been since you have left Thailand, GuestHouse, but a lot of parents in the mid-90s didn't tend to return to their country of origin, but moved their children to boarding schools in the UK, Australia, NZ and US prior to GCSE/IB/A level/AP/SAT/HSC/etc courses beginning. These children were those who were homesick. I only know of one girl who moved back to England so that she could do A levels instead of the IB programme. Parents sent their children back to their home countries in the early 90s did so because of a lack of international schools offering all levels of high school education, not because the choice was there and Thailand wasn't a good enough place to bring their children up in.

Of course, since then a couple of schools have opened up in Bangkok that offer A levels. My year level at my school in Bangkok was only the third to do IGCSEs and the IB programme. Many parents took their children out of the school I went to in the two years higher than mine because their students were being guinea pigs while going through the courses, and more than a few parents didn't want that uncertainty of putting their child in a school where the results were unproven. The students in my year level stayed because the results that the previous students obtained at IGCSE and IB level were as good as and even above even those of top schools in their home countries. Moreover, international school society is very different to Thai school society. It's a mishmash of about 30 different cultures every year, and there's always something new to learn about something or someone.

Meanwhile, making a big change in the wake of a sudden emotional event is not a rational to do. If Gary is going to leave his kids to the forces of society without looking after them properly and being there for them as much as a parent is meant to be while he cruises around Phuket or Samui, then in Thailand or whichever country he chooses to do this in he can expect disaster.

[elGrande]

I have two daughters 12 and 13 their mother passed away last year. We do not speak Thai (except the polite stuff- hello, thank you ,how much ect...) we visited Thailand for a month in Jan/feb.06 and fell in love with it.We are returning to Thailand in July this year for another month to explore and see if it's a place we really want to live.

We would like to stay at least a year in Thailand, maybe in Phuket or Ko Samui where we have friends living now(though they don't have children).I have an income from the U.S that would allow us to live there comfortably. My girl's go to public school here in Seattle but would be up to going to privet or public school in Thailand.

After visiting Thailand I could not stop thinking that it may be a much better place to raise my girls for a while, after experiencing the Thai's appreciation for the family and elders,their open hearts and love for their country and King. Not to mention there's not multiple murders and extreme crimes happening EVERY NIGHT and generally very little respect for family and elders like there is here. .

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Better hold off until the girls are off to college. As I speak Thai and live in thailand I will give a few unbiased comments.

1. Your view of Thailand is a tourist view and not realistic.

2. Thais have very little family values.

3. Samui is one of the most lawless places in Thailand.

4. Generally tourist areas are not family oriented. As you need a school, you have only tourist (farang) areas to choose from.

5. Why are you really interested in Thailand? Is it honestly not for the available lovelies? What will your daughters think of their old man with a 20 year old?

6. Any friends / associates you have in Thailand will all be farang. You will have no Thai friends. Most of the farangs will be of the sex tourist ilk... not wholesome

Basically, the idea is crazy.

[elGrande]

Pick a nice wholesome place ......... for the girls sake

[kat]

...I do realize Thailand is not a perfect place, and I could tell some boy's/men are raised to think their better than girls,A lot of the stories I've heard about the downsides of Thailand are still prevalent( if not more so) here in the states ...

You really have no idea what you're talking about here, Gary. How can you make that kind of comparison if you've never lived in Thailand, and obviously know very little? You can't, and are simply making a generalization based on what you perceive to be similarities, without accounting for, or even being aware of, degrees and scope. I am an American woman who has lived here for 4 years, and I can attest to the veracity of what Guesthouse has stated to you.

*edit: btw, Guesthouse, can you tell me when this sexual abuse incident occurred?

---Your absolutely right KAT,

I have never lived in Thailand so I don't know exactly how all Thai men treat woman.All I do know is how they are treated here in the U.S and Canada and the month we stayed in Thailand, and in my view they were treated (for the most part) with much more respect while we were visiting Thailand.The Thais seemed to have more respect for families by far than they do here in the states,and maybe it's because my girls are quite self-confident and don't take a lot of crap from people (especially boy's).

But never the less it's something I (and they) would have to watch out for if we move there (or any where).I do know two american woman who have lived in Thailand who really loved it for the most part (One still doe's),and it seems there's a few here on the forum (you included) that are doing o.k for themselves in Thailand.

-- I know Thailand is not a perfect place, just one that we would like to live and experience for a little while. Thank's for your views kat

Gary, I'm not trying to judge you at all. One year may be all right, although I as well as others would strongly advise against it when our opinions are sought. I am merely trying to tell you that unknowing comparisons between the east and west are way off target. That is because we are judging them against what we know as familiar norms, without really understanding their norms.

If you are upset with what you see in the United States, then you will be horrified when you learn about widespread norms here. And also, I believe you are a troll, albeit a useful one, if you are coming to this forum to tell us that you are moving two *pubescent daughters to Samui. There is no way an informed person in their right mind can say that without being a troll.

*edit

Edited May 18, 2006 by kat

[GuestHouse]

I don't know how long it has been since you have left Thailand, GuestHouse, but a lot of parents in the mid-90s

I left in mid 2003 but still return frequently to work for short periods (less than 2 months at at streactch) as I perform consultancy for my employers on Asian Projects out of our BKK office.

I have constant contact with expatriate families in our Thailand office and have recently let my UK home to an expat family who are returning from Thailand this summer to put their children back into the UK education system this autum.

I am speaking as a Parent with experience raising non Thai children in Thailand with the benefit of a full expatriate package. I speak read and write Thai and have a degree in Thai langauge and culture from a Thai university. My posts on this board testify to my understanding of living, working and raising a family in Thailand.

[skylar]

I left in mid 2003 but still return frequently to work for short periods (less than 2 months at at streactch) as I perform consultancy for my employers on Asian Projects out of our BKK office.

I have constant contact with expatriate families in our Thailand office and have recently let my UK home to an expat family who are returning from Thailand this summer to put their children back into the UK education system this autum.

I am speaking as a Parent with experience raising non Thai children in Thailand with the benefit of a full expatriate package. I speak read and write Thai and have a degree in Thai langauge and culture from a Thai university. My posts on this board testify to my understanding of living, working and raising a family in Thailand.

And I am speaking as a non-Thai child who spent adolescent years in Thailand. I speak Thai, I read Thai and write it too. Most of my friends were children of expat families and Thai families in my neighbourhood. I honestly think it is an excuse from these people you say you know who deliberately remove themselves and their children from Thailand for 'social, educational and personal development reasons' because they can't make the country work for them.

These parents you speak of who genuinely remove their children from international schools the calibre of ISB, Patana, Ruamrudee or NIST for these reasons sound quite insecure in their own ability to turn out their children properly. My cousins went to Charterhouse and Shiplake in England and they were worse than I was at school. Boarding does that to you And I would rather sit for the IB than A levels... A levels used to be the golden standard but are pretty passé as they're a piece of cake these days.

[GuestHouse]

These parents you speak of who genuinely remove their children from international schools the caliber of ISB, Patana, Ruamrudee or NIST for these reasons sound quite insecure in their own ability to turn out their children properly.

What you think they sound like, is irrelevant as parents they (and we) make decisions on what is best for their/our children.

But let us not loose sight of my contention, it is not that Thailand cannot provide a good life for young people, rather the life options Thailand offers young foreign children are limited compared to those that they would enjoy at home.