Its for the best that there is no social security system in Thailand.... Uk comparison

[wilcopops]

Here are some interesting facts about welfare.........Jan 2013.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1468668_551485528278041_1570642657_n.jpg

[Rimmer]

One post discussing moderation has been removed

[Bpuumike]

Some good points made in this thread and some complete & Utter <deleted> spouted re UK welfare..

I left school early 80s and instead of doing Sweet FA in Thatchers Britain I done a year on a YTS till I was 17, (lived in Northwest of England) proper jobs were few and far between then. ended up doing another till 18 then went on a CEP (community Enterprise Project) Yeah basically I am daft enough to be a 'Grafter' and have always done something instead of just taking the easy option, boils down to personal pride also. I eventually got a full time job at 18 and have always been in coller (work) I know lots of lazy good for nothing scroungers who have fiddled the system all their miserable crappy lifes and now in the UK is at the point where there are like 3 generations of these scumbags. They think it is normal, why work when we can have lots for nowt? Funny thing is they are the first to whinge about immigrants coming to UK and getting all the grants etc... Sorry, means test them properly the ones who are genuine should get welfare, the fiddling lay abouts who have never contributed to the pot should have all benefits stopped and made to do something for the community or get zero. Most fiddle the system, I for one have no sympathy for them. Get off your ar$e and work, Give them free sterilization so they do not carry on infecting the gene pool, that would be a good benefit for them

One reason I like Thailand, you look after yourself, do not expect anything for free... suits me fine

Good comments.

I have worked for the last 43 years and made a couple of significant job changes along the way.

Motivation, and I have lots, self pride and a determination to provide a better life for my loved ones.

Might be called an old-school fool but I have my own principles and never relied on the state (UK).

As for Thailand, the wife's retired parents don't receive anything from the state except some very basic medical care.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Bpuumike

[TheSpade]

The welfare system has destroyed the UK. Most of the people who would have taken the lower paid jobs (quite gladly) refuse to do this work now because they can get as much or more in benefits

'Most' people claiming benefits just get the standard job seekers allowance of £70 a week or £50 if you're under 22 (or whatever the age limit is now) so they don't get anywhere near a full time wage even if just on minimum wage which would net you about £900 a month.

[nontabury]

In Thailand no work=no eat=you die. I agree with this

Does that apply to babies? Should young children work in sweatshops? And what about the mentally ill, physically handicapped and elderly? Do you really want them all dead? Or is this just the moronic posting of a heartless imbecile?

I don't think he was referring to those who cannot work, I think he was referring to those who don't want to work,

[jimbeam1]

If there was 'welfare' in Thailand ,the system would collapse in a few months because everyone would be on it.

I'm not certain, but I think there is a welfare system in Thailand, but it is only for those who pay into it. What a great Idea.

jb1

[nontabury]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

I personally benefitted by getting off my back side, and at times having 3 jobs.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

Many of us don't have a pension from such a scheme, we now liven off what we work hard for.

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

Many of us don't have the benefit of a university degree, but in spite of this perceived drawback, we did not use this as an excuse for not working hard and being responsible for our own lives.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Again many of us were not so lucky to make our money this way, we just worked hard.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

Having left school at 15 ( none grammar school ) without any qualifications, and never once claimed benefits of any kind, always relied on myself to support me and my family, I think I do have the right to pass judgment on those claimants who think others should automatically support them. Later in life when I had my own business I would be sent job applicants from the employment exchange, many of these people were out and out scrounges, who had no intension of contributing to society, they thought it was their God given right to do nothing in life, yet they expected the rest of society to financially pay for their lifestyle,

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

Again many of us managed to cut it without the benefit of being a graduate, when life in some respects was harder than it is today.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

Agree the present government is trying to reverse some of the bad policies of previous governments

And yes there will always be those who abuse the system, unfortunately in the past they have been encouraged.

Just like to add that the points I have made above, do not refer to those unfortunate people , who CANNOT work, e.g genuine physical or mental problems. But for everybody else they should be responsible for themselves.

The Thai's have to be responsible for themselves," yes"some of them do it by the wrong means, but they are at least Doing something, and for that alone I admire them. Maybe that is one of the reasons that Thailand is going forward while some western countries are sinking into debt.

[HardenedSoul]

" Contemptuous attitude " - What a ridiculous comment and your attitude is incredibly selfish. I know though experince that there are so many benefit frauds that in no way deserve the life they have without either doing or wanting to do an honest days work. They are the lowest form of life, liers and cheats that prey on the honest worker's contributions. They brag about their dishonesty and work privaltely for cash, without a second's remorse. They are proud to take benefits away from the real needy and deserving cases. I also know of many deserving people with disabilities that justly accepting the help from the state and our grateful.

So get real and face the facts of the society we have today.

Oh shut up.

The majority of welfare claimants aren't as you describe, are they?

What - exactly - is ridiculous about saying that people have a contemptuous attitude towards those who claim benefits? They DO!!

Are you saying that a lot of self-righteous pricks who've retired here having been born, educated and employed at the right time in the economic cycle aren't contemptuous of pretty much anyone who receives benefits?

Put down the bottle of Jack Daniels, read the post again then come back with something coherent instead of wheeling out irrelevant anecdotes.

Edited December 14, 2013 by HardenedSoul

[nontabury]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

" Contemptuous attitude " - What a ridiculous comment and your attitude is incredibly selfish. I know though experince that there are so many benefit frauds that in no way deserve the life they have without either doing or wanting to do an honest days work. They are the lowest form of life, liers and cheats that prey on the honest worker's contributions. They brag about their dishonesty and work privaltely for cash, without a second's remorse. They are proud to take benefits away from the real needy and deserving cases. I also know of many deserving people with disabilities that justly accepting the help from the state and our grateful.

So get real and face the facts of the society we have today.

Correct in everything you say. It makes me wonder how some TV members get/got through life.

[HardenedSoul]

Correct in everything you say. It makes me wonder how some TV members get/got through life.

You're just as blinkered as he is, mate.

Still, if you believe that everyone who claims benefits in the UK is abusing the system, up to you.

[harrry]

There is welfare for people assessed with a disability. 500baht a month.

There is wefare for elderly people also 500 baht a month.

There is Universal Health Care for all Thais.

[gbswales]

The welfare state in the UK has fallen into disrepair because successive Tory governments and their new labour equivalents have bowed to the lower taxes lobby of the higher paid (of course which they are a a part). The welfare state depended on a system whereby people paid in according to their means and benefited according to needs. This ensured that someone like me who suffers from hemophillia with treatmens that have cost hundreds of thousands over the years was able to lead a normal life, work and contribute back to the system. Having good social welfare provision does not mean that people should automatically be able/entitled to receive benefits when they could be working. That has come about because of poor management over the years when we had revenue pouring in from North Sea oil and the like and governments just wanted to look good. It is not the fault of the welfare state itself. Of course reigning it in now is considerably more difficult and, less popular, than it would have been to properly manage a fair system in previous years. This came about because industry was able to offer good managerial staff stupidly high salaries to attract the best people away from the public sector and governments compounded this by reducing the taxation that these overpiad people get. The welfare state can only work if we accept that the price of no one being in poverty is that no one can be super rich either.

I am guessing that without the national health service my life expectancy would have been no more than middle age or I would have been severely disabled as a result of untreated joint bleeds. Someone cites that people wont take lower paid jobs - my response to this is that there should be no jobs so lowly paid that a person cannot live a reasonable existence. We are becoming bound up in the "take care of yourself" mentality keeping wealth that we do not really need and leaving people unable to care for themselves (I for example could not have got health insurance for my condition at any age) In short we are becoming selfish and working hard for ourselves instead of the common good.

One of the big factors is rising populations and yet the world allows organisations like the Catholic church to actively campaign against the means to control this (while it amasses great wealth itself) - we have large countries such as Russia, the middle east and India mandating against homosexuality - do they never stop to consider that this might be one of natures reactions to curb population growth? We want to live longer and be healthier and yet many -seemingly the majority are not willing to pay for it. We have come to believe that people need large salaries or bonuses to make them perform better - why? what happened to pride in work or maybe it is because the jobs they are doing are not really necessary at all and therefore there is no pride in doing them.

Sadly I see no cause for any optomism that things are going to change for the better - if anything people are more concerned with getting as much as they can for as little as possible and this is the spiral that will invevitabley lead to the collapse of society as we know it today - all we keep doing is looking for scapegoats instead of trying to change perspectives

[nontabury]

Correct in everything you say. It makes me wonder how some TV members get/got through life.

You're just as blinkered as he is, mate.

Still, if you believe that everyone who claims benefits in the UK is abusing the system, up to you.

No not blinkered, just experience.

Not saying that everybody who is claiming benefits is abusing the system, but for sure some/ many are.

As I replied earlier, I used to interview job applicants, many of whom were sent to me by the local employment exchange, on many occasions they would purposely talk themselves out of a job, why? Two reasons 1/they simple did not want to work, preferring to live on benefits. 2/

Already had a job on the side while at the same time claiming benefits. This 2nd group I could understand, what I could never understand was why the system allowed it. I did mention this to the employment exchange, and the lady was very sympathetic, admitting they were aware that the system was being grossly abused, however the subject was a hot potato.

I also remember discussing this problem with some Thai suppliers on my first visit to Thailand approx 25 yrs ago, they laughed and said it would never occur in Thailand, 25 yrs on, they have't copied the UK system, yet the country And people are prospering, OK some more than others, but even the poorer people are making financial progress, can you say the same about the UK?.

[HardenedSoul]

No not blinkered, just experience.

Not saying that everybody who is claiming benefits is abusing the system, but for sure some/ many are.

As I replied earlier, I used to interview job applicants, many of whom were sent to me by the local employment exchange, on many occasions they would purposely talk themselves out of a job, why? Two reasons 1/they simple did not want to work, preferring to live on benefits. 2/

Already had a job on the side while at the same time claiming benefits. This 2nd group I could understand, what I could never understand was why the system allowed it. I did mention this to the employment exchange, and the lady was very sympathetic, admitting they were aware that the system was being grossly abused, however the subject was a hot potato.

I also remember discussing this problem with some Thai suppliers on my first visit to Thailand approx 25 yrs ago, they laughed and said it would never occur in Thailand, 25 yrs on, they have't copied the UK system, yet the country And people are prospering, OK some more than others, but even the poorer people are making financial progress, can you say the same about the UK?.

How long ago did you have this "experience"?

25 years ago??!!

If so then, with respect - due or otherwise - you are completely out of touch and, consequently, your opinion is irrelevant.

If not, then are you really suggesting that a few people who were sent along for an interview by the local labour exchange and "talked themselves out of the job" did so because they were either happier on benefits or had a job on the side paid cash-in-hand?

Did it not enter your mind that the job they were interviewing for was shit?

Maybe they were relying on their own efforts (as I often did when job-hunting) to find the work they wanted to do rather than take a crappy job for shit pay just because the dole office tried to force it on them.

As for your appraisal of Thailand, what the hell are you smoking?

The country's in a freakin' recession, mate. Household debt is through the roof and loan delinquencies are spiraling out of control and hardly anyone pays tax.

You really have no clue what you're talking about

[nontabury]

No not blinkered, just experience.

Not saying that everybody who is claiming benefits is abusing the system, but for sure some/ many are.

As I replied earlier, I used to interview job applicants, many of whom were sent to me by the local employment exchange, on many occasions they would purposely talk themselves out of a job, why? Two reasons 1/they simple did not want to work, preferring to live on benefits. 2/

Already had a job on the side while at the same time claiming benefits. This 2nd group I could understand, what I could never understand was why the system allowed it. I did mention this to the employment exchange, and the lady was very sympathetic, admitting they were aware that the system was being grossly abused, however the subject was a hot potato.

I also remember discussing this problem with some Thai suppliers on my first visit to Thailand approx 25 yrs ago, they laughed and said it would never occur in Thailand, 25 yrs on, they have't copied the UK system, yet the country And people are prospering, OK some more than others, but even the poorer people are making financial progress, can you say the same about the UK?.

How long ago did you have this "experience"?

25 years ago??!!

If so then, with respect - due or otherwise - you are completely out of touch and, consequently, your opinion is irrelevant.

If not, then are you really suggesting that a few people who were sent along for an interview by the local labour exchange and "talked themselves out of the job" did so because they were either happier on benefits or had a job on the side paid cash-in-hand?

Did it not enter your mind that the job they were interviewing for was shit?

Maybe they were relying on their own efforts (as I often did when job-hunting) to find the work they wanted to do rather than take a crappy job for shit pay just because the dole office tried to force it on them.

As for your appraisal of Thailand, what the hell are you smoking?

The country's in a freakin' recession, mate. Household debt is through the roof and loan delinquencies are spiraling out of control and hardly anyone pays tax.

You really have no clue what you're talking about

Personal experience from 12 yrs ago. In addition speak to friends and relations in the UK frequently, they all seem to be of the same opinion as I. However because their opinion is not the same as yours, their opinions must also be incorrect.

Your 2nd paragraph is no more than a rant. It's irrelevant if the job was high paying or not, it was a job, better to take that,even if for only a short period of time than to remain on the dole. As I told you earlier I did not have your advantage of a uni education, left school at 15 with no qualifications and throughout my life HAD to take crappy jobs on occasions.

You say Thailand is in recession, can you back that statement up with official figures?

"Yes" some Thai's are accumulating a high debt, mostly from copying those in the west. however many Thai's are indeed prospering including members of my Thai family, and no, they are not using my money, they are making their way through life by THEIR own efforts.

[PooMik]

Actually there is a social security system in Thailand, called SSO http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/home_eng.jsp?lang=en

[HardenedSoul]

Personal experience from 12 yrs ago. In addition speak to friends and relations in the UK frequently, they all seem to be of the same opinion as I. However because their opinion is not the same as yours, their opinions must also be incorrect.

Your 2nd paragraph is no more than a rant. It's irrelevant if the job was high paying or not, it was a job, better to take that,even if for only a short period of time than to remain on the dole. As I told you earlier I did not have your advantage of a uni education, left school at 15 with no qualifications and throughout my life HAD to take crappy jobs on occasions.

You say Thailand is in recession, can you back that statement up with official figures?

"Yes" some Thai's are accumulating a high debt, mostly from copying those in the west. however many Thai's are indeed prospering including members of my Thai family, and no, they are not using my money, they are making their way through life by THEIR own efforts.

I didn't have a university education - just a good, solid grammar school one but on the rare occasion I found myself without gainful employment, I held out for the right role despite the grave consequences for the welfare state bill.

12 years ago, the British economy was going great guns. The jobs you were interviewing for were - as I said - probably shit. How do you know those candidates didn't have other interviews lined up for better positions? That's just it - you DIDN'T.

You just made foolish assumptions based on petty prejudices towards those who claim benefits.

As for Thailand, last I heard, it was in recession. Not sure if that's still the case but the point is fairly straightforward; there is trouble ahead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23751846

[Hardened Spanker]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

"

"It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West. "

"Growth" fueled in large part by irresponsible leverage, i.e. borrowing staggering amounts with the intention of passing the debt on to future generations. That as well as financial chicanery and greed that had devastating consequences circa 2008 to date, and probably worse to come.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

Definitely agree about this. Speaking in my case from the US perspective. I have a decent income from pension and social security, both of which have some (dubious) adjustments made annually with regard to inflation. I also have 80% reimbursement for all medical, dental, vision-related and prescription drug costs, paid even while I reside in Thailand. It's doubtful the pension and medical reimbursement programs will remain in place for future generations and the government social security program will be on shaky financial foundations. The whole idea of voluntary retirement will probably never be the same again.

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

Not sure whether British ingenuity led the world in many areas after World War II but, again from the American perspective, I recall graduating from university at a time when businesses sent recruiters to the campus to entice/bribe us to join them. I changed employers a few times on my terms and was able to get an additional two degrees later in life while on leave with full salary and most expenses paid. Nowadays a university degree only assures employment in a few select sectors and most university grads in the US start working with the burden of a mind-numbing debt for educational loans that will take years to repay.

While I should not be critical of all these benefits that I've received, and I do genuinely feel lucky to have lived during a time when things were pretty free and easy, the fact still remains that a lot of these generous "handouts" were based on the concept of spending now, promising more in the near term future and don't worry how it will be paid for ... an attitude shared by government, businesses and individuals. And this view hardly seems to be affected by the recent world wide economic and financial crises.

"Not sure whether British ingenuity led the world in many areas after World War II"

Well the Americans certainly didn't,as they stole all of Hitler's Nazi scientists to build the Apollo rockets and that's when NASA and it's famous Jet Propulsion Laboratory was born!

[duanebigsby]

hardly anybody (2 out of 60 million) pay taxes

this would be another disaster

you work, you have money

you dont work, you have what you deserve

Try telling that to the Down's syndrome person or the lady at the market with no hands.

[Hardened Spanker]

hardly anybody (2 out of 60 million) pay taxes

this would be another disaster

you work, you have money

you dont work, you have what you deserve

Try telling that to the Down's syndrome person or the lady at the market with no hands.

I tried telling it to the deaf guy at the noodle stall but he just looked at me gone out!

[Hardened Spanker]

No not blinkered, just experience.

Not saying that everybody who is claiming benefits is abusing the system, but for sure some/ many are.

As I replied earlier, I used to interview job applicants, many of whom were sent to me by the local employment exchange, on many occasions they would purposely talk themselves out of a job, why? Two reasons 1/they simple did not want to work, preferring to live on benefits. 2/

Already had a job on the side while at the same time claiming benefits. This 2nd group I could understand, what I could never understand was why the system allowed it. I did mention this to the employment exchange, and the lady was very sympathetic, admitting they were aware that the system was being grossly abused, however the subject was a hot potato.

I also remember discussing this problem with some Thai suppliers on my first visit to Thailand approx 25 yrs ago, they laughed and said it would never occur in Thailand, 25 yrs on, they have't copied the UK system, yet the country And people are prospering, OK some more than others, but even the poorer people are making financial progress, can you say the same about the UK?.

How long ago did you have this "experience"?

25 years ago??!!

If so then, with respect - due or otherwise - you are completely out of touch and, consequently, your opinion is irrelevant.

If not, then are you really suggesting that a few people who were sent along for an interview by the local labour exchange and "talked themselves out of the job" did so because they were either happier on benefits or had a job on the side paid cash-in-hand?

Did it not enter your mind that the job they were interviewing for was shit?

Maybe they were relying on their own efforts (as I often did when job-hunting) to find the work they wanted to do rather than take a crappy job for shit pay just because the dole office tried to force it on them.

As for your appraisal of Thailand, what the hell are you smoking?

The country's in a freakin' recession, mate. Household debt is through the roof and loan delinquencies are spiraling out of control and hardly anyone pays tax.

You really have no clue what you're talking about

Come on now,it's still no justification for heading to Thailand to become a Boiler Room Billy and bilking gullible pensioners out of their life savings though is it?

[culicine]

Thailand has a S.S. system. Just because you are unaware of it does not mean that it does not exist.

Only for civil servants as far as I'm aware. Private employees are at the whim of their employers - they should provide a provident fund - but many do not, including my school. Hence I pay into my own fund every year. I'll be living off my wife's pension at that time. The benefit of a pension here is that the recipient can also keep working (not for govt anymore), and still receive the full pension regardless of income or assets.

[harrry]

Thailand has a S.S. system. Just because you are unaware of it does not mean that it does not exist.

Only for civil servants as far as I'm aware. Private employees are at the whim of their employers - they should provide a provident fund - but many do not, including my school. Hence I pay into my own fund every year. I'll be living off my wife's pension at that time. The benefit of a pension here is that the recipient can also keep working (not for govt anymore), and still receive the full pension regardless of income or assets.

I suggest you find out a bit more then.

[Lokie]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

"

"It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West. "

"Growth" fueled in large part by irresponsible leverage, i.e. borrowing staggering amounts with the intention of passing the debt on to future generations. That as well as financial chicanery and greed that had devastating consequences circa 2008 to date, and probably worse to come.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

Definitely agree about this. Speaking in my case from the US perspective. I have a decent income from pension and social security, both of which have some (dubious) adjustments made annually with regard to inflation. I also have 80% reimbursement for all medical, dental, vision-related and prescription drug costs, paid even while I reside in Thailand. It's doubtful the pension and medical reimbursement programs will remain in place for future generations and the government social security program will be on shaky financial foundations. The whole idea of voluntary retirement will probably never be the same again.

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

Not sure whether British ingenuity led the world in many areas after World War II but, again from the American perspective, I recall graduating from university at a time when businesses sent recruiters to the campus to entice/bribe us to join them. I changed employers a few times on my terms and was able to get an additional two degrees later in life while on leave with full salary and most expenses paid. Nowadays a university degree only assures employment in a few select sectors and most university grads in the US start working with the burden of a mind-numbing debt for educational loans that will take years to repay.

While I should not be critical of all these benefits that I've received, and I do genuinely feel lucky to have lived during a time when things were pretty free and easy, the fact still remains that a lot of these generous "handouts" were based on the concept of spending now, promising more in the near term future and don't worry how it will be paid for ... an attitude shared by government, businesses and individuals. And this view hardly seems to be affected by the recent world wide economic and financial crises.

"Not sure whether British ingenuity led the world in many areas after World War II"

Well the Americans certainly didn't,as they stole all of Hitler's Nazi scientists to build the Apollo rockets and that's when NASA and it's famous Jet Propulsion Laboratory was born!

Agree in principle, but just a slight edit;

They got 'Rocket' technology from the Nazi Scientists, 'Jet engine' technology they were of course given by the Brits, along with the Magnatron (Radar) and the German Naval Enigma codes (Alan Turing and Co) Colossus (First programmable Mega computer) this after an Enigma machine being recovered from a damaged U-Boat by a boarding crew from HMS Bulldog (contray to how Hollywood - U571 portrayed it) Oh and nearly forgot - once we allowed them to fit the Rolls Royce Merlin into the Mustang they actually then had a decent long range Fighter plane...

Problem with US, you forget what you actually invented and where you came from, Colonials....? There's a good Chap! Time for Tea & Tiffin...

[HardenedSoul]

Come on now,it's still no justification for heading to Thailand to become a Boiler Room Billy and bilking gullible pensioners out of their life savings though is it?

Nope but that IS what you did, isn't it?

Couldn't you cut it as a TEFLer, then?

[Stradavarius37]

The Social Security system is America is nothing but a PONZI scheme. Bernie Madoff should be running the US SS system and not be in jail. In a perfect world all the social security and welfare schemes would be great, Problem is people will take advantage so in the end the schemes work for no one. As TRINK used to say "Human Manure"

An 80 year old Ponzi scheme - very impressive

[Bpuumike]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

I personally benefitted by getting off my back side, and at times having 3 jobs.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

Many of us don't have a pension from such a scheme, we now liven off what we work hard for.

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

Many of us don't have the benefit of a university degree, but in spite of this perceived drawback, we did not use this as an excuse for not working hard and being responsible for our own lives.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Again many of us were not so lucky to make our money this way, we just worked hard.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

Having left school at 15 ( none grammar school ) without any qualifications, and never once claimed benefits of any kind, always relied on myself to support me and my family, I think I do have the right to pass judgment on those claimants who think others should automatically support them. Later in life when I had my own business I would be sent job applicants from the employment exchange, many of these people were out and out scrounges, who had no intension of contributing to society, they thought it was their God given right to do nothing in life, yet they expected the rest of society to financially pay for their lifestyle,

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

Again many of us managed to cut it without the benefit of being a graduate, when life in some respects was harder than it is today.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

Agree the present government is trying to reverse some of the bad policies of previous governments

And yes there will always be those who abuse the system, unfortunately in the past they have been encouraged.

Just like to add that the points I have made above, do not refer to those unfortunate people , who CANNOT work, e.g genuine physical or mental problems. But for everybody else they should be responsible for themselves.

The Thai's have to be responsible for themselves," yes"some of them do it by the wrong means, but they are at least Doing something, and for that alone I admire them. Maybe that is one of the reasons that Thailand is going forward while some western countries are sinking into debt.

A sort of sad point but I know many Thais (and Malaysians) who are unable to work following traffic accidents, mainly motorcais. It reflects their attitude to life and traffic, until, suddenly, they come up against reality. They certainly receive no State help.

[Sloopydee]

I flabbergasted my colleagues a few years ago when it came up that I could return to my own country, sign on the dole which the most basic one equated to around 40,000b a month, for doing nothing.

The idea of being paid 40k baht a month to do absolutely nothing but lay around all day completely did their nut in.

Imagine similar here. Even if it was just enough 3 plates of food (100b), 50b for rent, an extra 50b for misc, so 200b a day/6,000b a month the nation would be at a standstill and the only people working would be those in the social security office.

[HardenedSoul]

Thailand doesn't have anything approaching a UK-style welfare state because hardly anyone pays any tax. It's as simple as that.

They've got a rice pledging scheme though

[Sloopydee]

Thailand doesn't have anything approaching a UK-style welfare state because hardly anyone pays any tax. It's as simple as that.

Incorrect.

If you wish I could explain the real reason.