Tax trouble, NEED URGENT ADVICE

[GAZZPA]

I am due to to renew my work permit at the end of this month.

I have seen that i need to provide evidence that tax and social security payments have been made when re applying.

The issue is that I have now found out that the Thai company I work for has not made any such payments. I do not receive a wage slip as they don't issue them but everyone employed by the company has the Social security and tax paid by the company.

So, where do i go with this? What is the most sensible way out? What do i do if I cannot make the whole years payment in 1 go? Also, i suspect that despite this being my companies doing i will still be liable.

From what i can see my salary has simply been paid to me without and administration attached. i am drawing blank faces when asking the questions and it is feeling unlikely I will get any support on this.. by the way, yes i know it is a terrible company, I'm working in that.

If anyone has sensible advice please let me know. thanks

[pigeonjake]

when i worked in bkk, the company looked after getting me the work permit and everything that goes with it,

if they want you to work there it should be them doing the worrying,

jake,

im no expert by the way

[GAZZPA]

when i worked in bkk, the company looked after getting me the work permit and everything that goes with it,

if they want you to work there it should be them doing the worrying,

jake,

im no expert by the way

I agree they should be worrying, just don't want something to bite me on the behind.

[Soutpeel]

I am due to to renew my work permit at the end of this month.

I have seen that i need to provide evidence that tax and social security payments have been made when re applying.

The issue is that I have now found out that the Thai company I work for has not made any such payments. I do not receive a wage slip as they don't issue them but everyone employed by the company has the Social security and tax paid by the company.

So, where do i go with this? What is the most sensible way out? What do i do if I cannot make the whole years payment in 1 go? Also, i suspect that despite this being my companies doing i will still be liable.

From what i can see my salary has simply been paid to me without and administration attached. i am drawing blank faces when asking the questions and it is feeling unlikely I will get any support on this.. by the way, yes i know it is a terrible company, I'm working in that.

If anyone has sensible advice please let me know. thanks

You are most definitely will be liable, personal income tax is your problem, not the company's so sad to say all you can do is find out how much you I owe and get your wallet out or try to come to some arrangement with the tax man to negotiate a payment plan

I suppose an only other possible out as regards the company you do have a contract which states they pay your local tax ?.....if you do maybe some recourse via a lawyer...

[paz]

You don't need a lawyer, you need an accountant or payroll specialist.

The whole question is that, once confirmed they did not make any tax or SS payment, if they kept any money that was supposed to be paid on your behalf for that purpose.

If that is the case good luck recovering that money. Making the payments yourself will not be difficult and hopefully the penalty for a late payment will not be too high.

[GAZZPA]

You don't need a lawyer, you need an accountant or payroll specialist.

The whole question is that, once confirmed they did not make any tax or SS payment, if they kept any money that was supposed to be paid on your behalf for that purpose.

If that is the case good luck recovering that money. Making the payments yourself will not be difficult and hopefully the penalty for a late payment will not be too high.

thanks for that, sounds very sensible.

I have been digging as much as possible to see what i can do and i have found that for domestic payments (people employed on a local contract such as me) the company is supposed to "withhold the tax" and present it to the revenue department each month. Apparently I was then supposed to receive some sort of notification of the tax been witheld and it is offsett against the tax liability at the ned of the year.

There are a few foreign workers employed by my company and one I managed to speak to this afternoon has said that the company deduct his tax,, it looks like someone has made a very serious error but I am hoping that even though it is personal income tax the company may have some liability,,

Lastly, I dont think the payment is late as it is due to be paid next March for this year.

[tolsti]

The muppets where I work deducted the wrong amount of tax last year. In effect I paid 36K too little. So this year I have been paying an additional amount each month to make up the shortfall. There was no penalty applied and it all seemed very normal and amicable.

[GAZZPA]

The muppets where I work deducted the wrong amount of tax last year. In effect I paid 36K too little. So this year I have been paying an additional amount each month to make up the shortfall. There was no penalty applied and it all seemed very normal and amicable.

From what I can see it is a legal requirement for the company to withold tax, and yet you were still liable to cough up as it s a personal tax, I know that's the way it is but it stinks. Is the additional money part of the witheld tax this year by your company or do you have to physically pay additional money?

To say i am a little worried is an understatement.

[Soutpeel]

You don't need a lawyer, you need an accountant or payroll specialist.

The whole question is that, once confirmed they did not make any tax or SS payment, if they kept any money that was supposed to be paid on your behalf for that purpose.

If that is the case good luck recovering that money. Making the payments yourself will not be difficult and hopefully the penalty for a late payment will not be too high.

You would use an accountant to represent you in a contractual dispute ? With all due respect go back and reward what I wrote if his contact contains a clause which states that the company will pay his tax one suspects a lawyer would be needed to enforce this clause , if the op ends up dealing with the tax man then yes an accountant may be required

[Soutpeel]

You don't need a lawyer, you need an accountant or payroll specialist.

The whole question is that, once confirmed they did not make any tax or SS payment, if they kept any money that was supposed to be paid on your behalf for that purpose.

If that is the case good luck recovering that money. Making the payments yourself will not be difficult and hopefully the penalty for a late payment will not be too high.

thanks for that, sounds very sensible.

I have been digging as much as possible to see what i can do and i have found that for domestic payments (people employed on a local contract such as me) the company is supposed to "withhold the tax" and present it to the revenue department each month. Apparently I was then supposed to receive some sort of notification of the tax been witheld and it is offsett against the tax liability at the ned of the year.

There are a few foreign workers employed by my company and one I managed to speak to this afternoon has said that the company deduct his tax,, it looks like someone has made a very serious error but I am hoping that even though it is personal income tax the company may have some liability,,

Lastly, I dont think the payment is late as it is due to be paid next March for this year.

Irrespective of error on not the company will have no liability, PIT is your problem, no different from anywhere else...they don't pay or under pay its still coming out your pocket

[Soutpeel]

The muppets where I work deducted the wrong amount of tax last year. In effect I paid 36K too little. So this year I have been paying an additional amount each month to make up the shortfall. There was no penalty applied and it all seemed very normal and amicable.

From what I can see it is a legal requirement for the company to withold tax, and yet you were still liable to cough up as it s a personal tax, I know that's the way it is but it stinks. Is the additional money part of the witheld tax this year by your company or do you have to physically pay additional money?

To say i am a little worried is an understatement.

The company can be fined that's all.....you are still liable for the short fall in payment

[NCFC]

This seems a little odd to me. If you have a contract saying you will be paid X and you receive X each month then you must have been aware that no deductions were being paid?

Did you ever query that no deductions were made, or were you happy to receive the full amount in the hope that you might get away without paying taxes and ss?

As other posters have said, personal income tax is your responsibility and not the company's. If the tax office think you were intentionally trying to defraud them they will enforce a penalty charge in addition to the unpaid deductions. I know someone to whom this happened. He was able to negotiate down the penalty portion, though, so there is some flexibility.

[GAZZPA]

This seems a little odd to me. If you have a contract saying you will be paid X and you receive X each month then you must have been aware that no deductions were being paid?

Did you ever query that no deductions were made, or were you happy to receive the full amount in the hope that you might get away without paying taxes and ss?

As other posters have said, personal income tax is your responsibility and not the company's. If the tax office think you were intentionally trying to defraud them they will enforce a penalty charge in addition to the unpaid deductions. I know someone to whom this happened. He was able to negotiate down the penalty portion, though, so there is some flexibility.

My contract is not as simple as that. I am setting up new business and new accounts for the Thai company so I am on a retainer salary that is calculated on covering my living expenses and a little more, so at a nett level and it varies from month to month. This was expected in the first year as next year is when i get rewarded for the new contracts and accounts.

There are 2 offices for this company, 1 at the factory and 1 in Bangkok. So, now it is time to renew my visa and in the renewal it is required that i show tax documentation (not sure what that looks like as the HR team were supposed to be dealing with it). Now that the visa renewal is due the first office said the second office has dealt with this and the second office is saying the first office,, in other words poor communication, nothing has been done properly and its a mess.

Also, there are no wage slips for me to analyse deductions..

I had no intentions of evading tax and ss.

I guess I will be negotiating very soon.

[Soutpeel]

This seems a little odd to me. If you have a contract saying you will be paid X and you receive X each month then you must have been aware that no deductions were being paid?

Did you ever query that no deductions were made, or were you happy to receive the full amount in the hope that you might get away without paying taxes and ss?

As other posters have said, personal income tax is your responsibility and not the company's. If the tax office think you were intentionally trying to defraud them they will enforce a penalty charge in addition to the unpaid deductions. I know someone to whom this happened. He was able to negotiate down the penalty portion, though, so there is some flexibility.

My contract is not as simple as that. I am setting up new business and new accounts for the Thai company so I am on a retainer salary that is calculated on covering my living expenses and a little more, so at a nett level and it varies from month to month. This was expected in the first year as next year is when i get rewarded for the new contracts and accounts.

There are 2 offices for this company, 1 at the factory and 1 in Bangkok. So, now it is time to renew my visa and in the renewal it is required that i show tax documentation (not sure what that looks like as the HR team were supposed to be dealing with it). Now that the visa renewal is due the first office said the second office has dealt with this and the second office is saying the first office,, in other words poor communication, nothing has been done properly and its a mess.

Also, there are no wage slips for me to analyse deductions..

I had no intentions of evading tax and ss.

I guess I will be negotiating very soon.

Let me ask you this who arranges the WP for you ? The company ?....

if so I wouldn't be too worried then, they may have a "system" or arrangement in place to get your WP renewed

[GAZZPA]

This seems a little odd to me. If you have a contract saying you will be paid X and you receive X each month then you must have been aware that no deductions were being paid?

Did you ever query that no deductions were made, or were you happy to receive the full amount in the hope that you might get away without paying taxes and ss?

As other posters have said, personal income tax is your responsibility and not the company's. If the tax office think you were intentionally trying to defraud them they will enforce a penalty charge in addition to the unpaid deductions. I know someone to whom this happened. He was able to negotiate down the penalty portion, though, so there is some flexibility.

My contract is not as simple as that. I am setting up new business and new accounts for the Thai company so I am on a retainer salary that is calculated on covering my living expenses and a little more, so at a nett level and it varies from month to month. This was expected in the first year as next year is when i get rewarded for the new contracts and accounts.

There are 2 offices for this company, 1 at the factory and 1 in Bangkok. So, now it is time to renew my visa and in the renewal it is required that i show tax documentation (not sure what that looks like as the HR team were supposed to be dealing with it). Now that the visa renewal is due the first office said the second office has dealt with this and the second office is saying the first office,, in other words poor communication, nothing has been done properly and its a mess.

Also, there are no wage slips for me to analyse deductions..

I had no intentions of evading tax and ss.

I guess I will be negotiating very soon.

Let me ask you this who arranges the WP for you ? The company ?....

if so I wouldn't be too worried then, they may have a "system" or arrangement in place to get your WP renewed

yes, the company arranged my WP. The only thing I have done is apply for the non immigrant visa in London before I got to Thailand and then I gave it all to them.

I hope you are right, so far the one office manager just looks at me with a blank expression..

[friendphil]

I worked at a school that withheld tax, and gave me a receipt each month.. I then took to the provincial or municipal tax office and applied for a refund, since I hadn't made more than xx amount (i don't know how much i'd have to make to have owed taxes).

Perhaps you could go to the tax office with pay stubs and get some kind of document to show work permit people, as to whether you've paid or not needed to pay.

And... you are thinking about this on the 18th and have until the end of the month? Heck, that's not urgent! By my standards you're way ahead of the ball game.... I'm normally thinking about something like this while I'm on my way to the work permit office!

Anyway.... good luck!

Edited December 18, 2013 by friendphil

[Soutpeel]

This seems a little odd to me. If you have a contract saying you will be paid X and you receive X each month then you must have been aware that no deductions were being paid?

Did you ever query that no deductions were made, or were you happy to receive the full amount in the hope that you might get away without paying taxes and ss?

As other posters have said, personal income tax is your responsibility and not the company's. If the tax office think you were intentionally trying to defraud them they will enforce a penalty charge in addition to the unpaid deductions. I know someone to whom this happened. He was able to negotiate down the penalty portion, though, so there is some flexibility.

My contract is not as simple as that. I am setting up new business and new accounts for the Thai company so I am on a retainer salary that is calculated on covering my living expenses and a little more, so at a nett level and it varies from month to month. This was expected in the first year as next year is when i get rewarded for the new contracts and accounts.

There are 2 offices for this company, 1 at the factory and 1 in Bangkok. So, now it is time to renew my visa and in the renewal it is required that i show tax documentation (not sure what that looks like as the HR team were supposed to be dealing with it). Now that the visa renewal is due the first office said the second office has dealt with this and the second office is saying the first office,, in other words poor communication, nothing has been done properly and its a mess.

Also, there are no wage slips for me to analyse deductions..

I had no intentions of evading tax and ss.

I guess I will be negotiating very soon.

Let me ask you this who arranges the WP for you ? The company ?....

if so I wouldn't be too worried then, they may have a "system" or arrangement in place to get your WP renewed

yes, the company arranged my WP. The only thing I have done is apply for the non immigrant visa in London before I got to Thailand and then I gave it all to them.

I hope you are right, so far the one office manager just looks at me with a blank expression..

Well there is the answer then, don't do anything or worry about it until the problem is raised with you, and then just act stupid and say "solly" you thought the company took care of all this, simple

[Arkady]

I am due to to renew my work permit at the end of this month.

I have seen that i need to provide evidence that tax and social security payments have been made when re applying.

The issue is that I have now found out that the Thai company I work for has not made any such payments. I do not receive a wage slip as they don't issue them but everyone employed by the company has the Social security and tax paid by the company.

So, where do i go with this? What is the most sensible way out? What do i do if I cannot make the whole years payment in 1 go? Also, i suspect that despite this being my companies doing i will still be liable.

From what i can see my salary has simply been paid to me without and administration attached. i am drawing blank faces when asking the questions and it is feeling unlikely I will get any support on this.. by the way, yes i know it is a terrible company, I'm working in that.

If anyone has sensible advice please let me know. thanks

You are most definitely will be liable, personal income tax is your problem, not the company's so sad to say all you can do is find out how much you I owe and get your wallet out or try to come to some arrangement with the tax man to negotiate a payment plan

I suppose an only other possible out as regards the company you do have a contract which states they pay your local tax ?.....if you do maybe some recourse via a lawyer...

Paying salaries tax is in fact a legal obligation of the employer and at the end of the year the employee has the obligation to submit a tax return form. The company is under a legal obligation to provide you with payslips showing the breakdown of pay and legal deductions. They also have to give you your copy of the form they submit to the Revenue Dept at year end to show how much tax they have deducted and paid on your behalf throughout the year. You need this to make your tax return. Once you have done this, you can get a notarised tax receipt from the Revenue Dept. The company also receives receipts from the Social Security office monthly. If they are not giving you monthly pay slips and tax deduction forms, there is something seriously wrong. They may be pocketing the deductions, in which case you will have to pay the tax yourself. Most large companies actually offer to do the tax returns on behalf of employees with the necessary input on personal deductions.

[Nobbie49]

yes, the company arranged my WP. The only thing I have done is apply for the non immigrant visa in London before I got to Thailand and then I gave it all to them.

Let me ask you this who arranges the WP for you ? The company ?....

if so I wouldn't be too worried then, they may have a "system" or arrangement in place to get your WP renewed

I hope you are right, so far the one office manager just looks at me with a blank expression..

Have you ever actually been given your wp or did HR just say "don't worry"? If you have a wp then tax returns must have been filed. If you have not then I suspect noone has filed anything on your behalf. Do you even have a tax ID? If not I can only draw the same conclusion which is that you are not officially on record at the company or any company for that matter. But let's start solving your problem. First thing to do is to ask HR for a copy of November PND1 which is the form with which every employee's salary is filed monthly and see if your name is on it. It also shows your official salary and tax withheld. Give me the answer to that and I will tell you which step to take next. Ill keep following this subject.

[Nobbie49]

This seems a little odd to me. If you have a contract saying you will be paid X and you receive X each month then you must have been aware that no deductions were being paid?

Did you ever query that no deductions were made, or were you happy to receive the full amount in the hope that you might get away without paying taxes and ss?

As other posters have said, personal income tax is your responsibility and not the company's. If the tax office think you were intentionally trying to defraud them they will enforce a penalty charge in addition to the unpaid deductions. I know someone to whom this happened. He was able to negotiate down the penalty portion, though, so there is some flexibility.

My contract is not as simple as that. I am setting up new business and new accounts for the Thai company so I am on a retainer salary that is calculated on covering my living expenses and a little more, so at a nett level and it varies from month to month. This was expected in the first year as next year is when i get rewarded for the new contracts and accounts.

There are 2 offices for this company, 1 at the factory and 1 in Bangkok. So, now it is time to renew my visa and in the renewal it is required that i show tax documentation (not sure what that looks like as the HR team were supposed to be dealing with it). Now that the visa renewal is due the first office said the second office has dealt with this and the second office is saying the first office,, in other words poor communication, nothing has been done properly and its a mess.

Also, there are no wage slips for me to analyse deductions..

I had no intentions of evading tax and ss.

I guess I will be negotiating very soon.

Let me ask you this who arranges the WP for you ? The company ?....

if so I wouldn't be too worried then, they may have a "system" or arrangement in place to get your WP renewed

yes, the company arranged my WP. The only thing I have done is apply for the non immigrant visa in London before I got to Thailand and then I gave it all to them.

I hope you are right, so far the one office manager just looks at me with a blank expression..

Have you ever actually been given your wp or did HR just say "don't worry"? If you have a wp then tax returns must have been filed. If you have not then I suspect noone has filed anything on your behalf. Do you even have a tax ID? If not I can only draw the same conclusion which is that you are not officially on record at the company or any company for that matter. But let's start solving your problem. First thing to do is to ask HR for a copy of November PND1 which is the form with which every employee's salary is filed monthly and see if your name is on it. It also shows your official salary and tax withheld. Give me the answer to that and I will tell you which step to take next. Ill keep following this subject.