Anti-graft group advocates reform before election

[Lite Beer]

Anti-graft group advocates reform before election
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, Dec 20 – A counter-graft advocacy group today urged Thailand's embattled caretaker government to postpone the scheduled February 2 general election pending a fight against widespread corruption and what is seen as a vicious cycle among politicians.

Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand (ACT), said Thailand’s deep-rooted cheating in political circles has erupted into strong dissension among the public.

The country’s administration must come up with practical measures to eradicate corruption before the election and politicians’ behaviour fails to convince Thai people that the elected government will follow a pre-election agreement (for national reform), he said.

An election, if held before reform, will only be the starting point of another vicious cycle and it should be eliminated despite the necessity to postpone the poll, said Mr Pramon.

He urged all political parties to set achievable anti-corruption measures as their priority national agenda in order to encouragement amended laws for a practical fight against corruption.

“People have displayed their impatience with corruption. We are ready to stand by them in reforming Thailand towards a graft-free society,” he said.

The anti-corruption organisation offered five proposals to the new government including tougher laws to counter corruption, strengthening the country’s independent agencies so they work proactively without any attachment to the government, urging public participation and disclosure of information to people, pushing for the state’s
transparency, and campaigning for strict adherence to code of conduct and good governance.

He called on all independent organisations to be watchful on corruption during the next several months when Thailand’s permanent administration will be vacant.

Mr Pramon said Thailand has encountered a new and historic phenomenon – a widespread awareness among millions of people who demand national change. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-12-20

[NongKhaiKid]

If the election is postponed in the fight against corruption there never will be an election here again.

[Gsxrnz]

Maybe they should outsource all government services to independent contractors offshore.

[tomross46]

This sounds good, but politicians live on greed and corruption. Ever since Democracy was claimed after the 1932 rebellion there has been corrupt politicians. Corruption is going on in every country. China and Vietnam have a better was of resolving the problem, execution.

[96tehtarp]

Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand (ACT)

Add another acronym to the list. I need a dictionary.

Pramon Sutivong is on the board of directors of a large Thai corporation which is majority owned by (self censorship here).

Edited December 20, 2013 by 96tehtarp

[whybother]

Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand (ACT)

Add another acronym to the list. I need a dictionary.

Pramon Sutivong is on the board of directors of a large Thai corporation which is majority owned by (self censorship here).

The Crown Property group aren't majority shareholders of SCG. They only own 30%.

[chainarong]

Just how you combat this anti graft is the fifty dollars question, even in China this is still an everyday occurrence , with the penalty of death it may slow the graft down , but it still carries on and the reason they have not got a system of government, that is like the wests ,Westminster , US , German (to name a few), styled Governance, with checks and balances , having said that there are instances where this fails , but they get caught, channelling money out of Government departments should be noticed within twenty four hours.

[Emptyset]

This sounds good, but politicians live on greed and corruption. Ever since Democracy was claimed after the 1932 rebellion there has been corrupt politicians. Corruption is going on in every country. China and Vietnam have a better was of resolving the problem, execution.

People single out politicians - and they certainly do deserve a large proportion of the blame. But let's not forget the endemic corruption in the military, bureaucracy and the police etc. It affects all areas of public service. No amount of reform is going to change this overnight.

And those who suggest Vietnam and China as suggestions again indicate some sort of bizarre belief they have that corruption only happens in democratic countries. Where does that come from? Vietnam is still a fair way behind Thailand. China only went ahead on the Corruption Perceptions Index in the last few years I believe. And that's only a rule of thumb. It's perceptions of corruption, not actual corruption. Often press freedom in a democracy will allow the press to write more about suspected corruption and thus the public perception that there's more corruption going on will increase. In a dictatorship or authoritarian regime, this sort of reporting can be suppressed.

The people executed or jailed for corruption in the countries you mention aren't really jailed for corruption at all. That's just an excuse. They've upset too many powerful people. The Bo Xilai case is really a paradigm example, ostensibly jailed for his corruption but in reality it was his crackdown on corruption that lead to him being jailed.

[Robby nz]

A great start would be to give the ANCC some teeth and double their budget.

Strengthen the penalties for corruption particularly for pollies and Govt officials, like dismissal without pension on conviction, confiscation of the estimated amount of money gained by corruption and a life time ban.

Then start on the court system then the police.

Saw Yingluck standing up on a stage holding hands with a group under a big anti corruption banner.

Then the first thing she and her Govt did was to cut the budget of the NACC and other watchdog groups.

Shows their dedication to cleaning up corruption.

[slapout]

Have to agree with reform before an election, that would in all likelyhood put at least some, of the crooks right back in place. That is one of Thalands major problems, the checks and balances required, closing of loopholes when programs are written, oversight, management, fund disbursement, etc are under the thumb and watchful eye of the crooks.

Corruption has become so rampant and on such a massive scale (Baht wise) that if allowed to contine will make past protests look like a marshmellow fight. Thailand is at or nearing a crossroad and the decisions made will determine she will be compete with Singapore or the Somalia, Nigeria, etc countries of the world.

When you have no vast petro, mineral, technology, reserves, You have depleted or destroyed most of your natural potential, your education system , infastructure, need vast sums injected, which you do not have, its probably past time to reform from the top down/bottom up.

[lostmebike]

Looking at the picture, one would think they should rest up and not concern themselves with such trivial matters as government

Is it just me or do they look ready to drop??

[brit1984]

a nice idea in theory but the reality is there is so much corruption on both sides that it would be impossible to implement in practice - the only way to stop corruption is for one or both of the major political parties to modernize themselves (or for a new party to rise on such a platform)

i think korn / abhisit could do this from the opposition side but they need to be very brave to break ties with all the old mafia guys that pull the strings in the background (or in the foreground in the case of suthep)

i don't think yingluck is corrupt but her genetic ties to her brother are more difficult to break (and even if she did i don't think her pretty face alone would keep her in power for long) but there may be some educated and reasonable members of pheu thai who could come forward

[tomacht8]

100% agree!
Do it Thailand!
Please do it for our children and all future generations.
I would find it good if these men would even speak publicly in all TV channels!

[FangFerang]

I cite a Thai intellectual who suggested that all constitutional amendments and policies that create expenditures over a certain amount require a so-called super majority (2/3 or 3/4) to pass. That makes it so even minority parties are stakeholders, and also allows the elected players to have an edge -- just not the entire knife.

Then there would no opportunity for the politically-idiotic amnesty bill --the match that lit this current powderkeg -- (and similar abuses in the past committed by all sides). It would institutionalize compromise. I read the article in the Bangkok Post, and neither side even commented on it. I consider the idea a stroke of genius in this balmy climate (well not balmy lately, but usually). Not that I complain about the cool weather, except it is killing people in the North.

I think corruption is actually a red herring. Political and Constitutional reform could have more of an effect, and create a more long-lasting peace. Trying to stop corruption is impossible in a climate where laws can be enacted without all stakeholders being forced to negotiate with each other.

It seems sadly clear neither side wants any laws in place that prevent them from abusing the system once they are in power. This is a tragedy.

Every single front page leader here has more shady deals under their belt than a pattaya hooker. Every one.

Most foreign visitors here really like Thais. We bicker and argue about how they fail in education (like the west has great education in place), and how they rip people off on jet ski scams (like Phuket is the rest of the country), and how saving face is stupid (which is frustrating and very sweet at the same time, because when Thais speak they are usually also considering that you should not lose face, either)... but no one seems to talk about why we came here or say positive things about Thai people.

Thais are one whopping hell of a lot more polite than average Americans or average Brits (maybe we should listen more to the Dutch and Germans?).

I came here because...I like Thais. I have many Thai friends in my home country. I have a lot more Thai friends here. People can tell if you love them or are just faking it. We all have instincts, I hope...

I think many foriegners are faking it, and riding the gravy train. They failed in their home countries, traveled halfway across the globe, and then whinge that the country is not like the nation they left. That is an essential oil from the crude scent of hypocrisy.

My people have a saying: "If you are not part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem". Thai-bashing is just hypocritical from those who live here. If you really don't like children, then don't teach. If you really don't like Thais, it's simple.

Get lost somewhere else. HM said, "Thailand is for Thais." I respect his wisdom.

Resume rants.

[allan michaud]

YES, YES and YES. Please let this happen. It is good to see this kind of thing being discussed openly. It would be easy to write some negative comments given Thailand's political history but I won't. I sincerely hope the country can make this very significant step forward. Fingers crossed.

[Nibbles48]

Yingluck has been stealing money from the people to fund her past week of election campaigning. That has been done in the most public way you can imagine and does she give a shit?

You can start right there and have her arrested and charged. That would be a start.

[Scamper]

This committee is right. Whether people are aligned with the Democrats or not, whether people are aligned with Suthep, or just think he's crackers - people are just plain fed up with the corruption, and they know this election won't solve anything, merely embed the practices further. The opposition is muddled and in disarray. But on this key point - addressing the massive practices of corruption - there is wide consensus on that, and that is what clearly angers the people.

[bigbamboo]

Without corruption there would be no politicians to eradicate corruption.

Work that one out, Einstein!

[backtonormal]

Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand (ACT)

Add another acronym to the list. I need a dictionary.

Pramon Sutivong is on the board of directors of a large Thai corporation which is majority owned by (self censorship here).

And he was the head man at Toyota Thailand. Its well known by all international companies who wish to be in Thailand that they do not go thru governmental channels they use the infamous shadowy 'state within a state' route. Then certain Thais are used as head of the these companys. Effectively its the even more shadowy amart that Thaksin is trying to replace with his own Amart. Pramon as an axe to grind...move on nothing to read here

[FangFerang]

The funniest thing to me, the outrageously hilarious fact, is that we all are all talking in an echo chamber. One side goes burgundy, the other sides with adulterated sunshine yellow, and ..........it doesn't matter at all what we say. Good click-through advertising for TV, though.

I like TV, please rant more often!

[gerry1011]

Yingluck has been stealing money from the people to fund her past week of election campaigning. That has been done in the most public way you can imagine and does she give a shit?

You can start right there and have her arrested and charged. That would be a start.

Another start would be to arrest those who defame the PM.

Yingluck has been "stealing money from people" you said?

That's a serious accusation...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[pxlgirl]

some just don't seem to get it. Lemme rephrase: Corruption is so tied to Thailand, like papaya to Somtam. Always has been (even before Thaksin), still is, and will be (no matter who'll run the country).

[Roadman]

Yingluck has been stealing money from the people to fund her past week of election campaigning. That has been done in the most public way you can imagine and does she give a shit?

You can start right there and have her arrested and charged. That would be a start.

Arrested and charged? How is that currently going especially with the rich or politicians? Which trusted agency that should be non political do you want to consider charges? - the Police? the DSI? the Attorney General? feel free to name others but most are currently politically controlled which is yet another part of the issue.

Your suggested start can not even be started with and that is the wider problem.

Agree with another poster that unless a new party can emerge with a reform platform that can win over a broad spectrum of people from the Democrat and Isaan strongholds then nothing is going to change in the short term. Thailand is already past the point of no return and the only other option when it does hit rock bottom will be the for the Army to yet again step in. Hopefully when they have to they seek a better governance solution in combination with the components of Thai society who do not make up the two thirds who accept corruption.

[GeorgeO]

Yingluck has been stealing money from the people to fund her past week of election campaigning. That has been done in the most public way you can imagine and does she give a shit?

You can start right there and have her arrested and charged. That would be a start.

Another start would be to arrest those who defame the PM.

Yingluck has been "stealing money from people" you said?

That's a serious accusation...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

gerry, there must come a point when even the most hardened red shirts, like yourself, start to realise that this administration has f***ed up big style...!!

There is sufficient proof out there already, and yet you continue to demand further proof...!

Large sections of the populace and business community are lining up to express their strong desire to see significant change, but you and your buddy, fab4, continue to stick your head in the sand and support this most corrupt of regimes...!

Why...??

[gerry1011]

Yingluck has been stealing money from the people to fund her past week of election campaigning. That has been done in the most public way you can imagine and does she give a shit?

You can start right there and have her arrested and charged. That would be a start.

Another start would be to arrest those who defame the PM.

Yingluck has been "stealing money from people" you said?

That's a serious accusation...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

gerry, there must come a point when even the most hardened red shirts, like yourself, start to realise that this administration has f***ed up big style...!!

There is sufficient proof out there already, and yet you continue to demand further proof...!

Large sections of the populace and business community are lining up to express their strong desire to see significant change, but you and your buddy, fab4, continue to stick your head in the sand and support this most corrupt of regimes...!

Why...??

I would be happy to be presented proof that "Yingluck has been stealing money from the people", and then change my opinion, if needed.

But without proof, accusing the PM of stealing money is only defamation, which should be punished.

Otherwise anybody could assume that any rumor can be launched about anyone, which is very far from being an opinion that I can share with you guys

[northernjohn]

This sounds good, but politicians live on greed and corruption. Ever since Democracy was claimed after the 1932 rebellion there has been corrupt politicians. Corruption is going on in every country. China and Vietnam have a better was of resolving the problem, execution.

People single out politicians - and they certainly do deserve a large proportion of the blame. But let's not forget the endemic corruption in the military, bureaucracy and the police etc. It affects all areas of public service. No amount of reform is going to change this overnight.

And those who suggest Vietnam and China as suggestions again indicate some sort of bizarre belief they have that corruption only happens in democratic countries. Where does that come from? Vietnam is still a fair way behind Thailand. China only went ahead on the Corruption Perceptions Index in the last few years I believe. And that's only a rule of thumb. It's perceptions of corruption, not actual corruption. Often press freedom in a democracy will allow the press to write more about suspected corruption and thus the public perception that there's more corruption going on will increase. In a dictatorship or authoritarian regime, this sort of reporting can be suppressed.

The people executed or jailed for corruption in the countries you mention aren't really jailed for corruption at all. That's just an excuse. They've upset too many powerful people. The Bo Xilai case is really a paradigm example, ostensibly jailed for his corruption but in reality it was his crackdown on corruption that lead to him being jailed.

You are correct that people single out politicians and ignore the other levels of authority. What you fail to realize is that the other levels of authority are following the leads of the politicians. It is like the old saying cut the head off of the snake and the rest will follow. Unfortunately no matter how hard they try corruption will never be eradicated but that is not an excuse not to try.

You talk about Thailand falling on the Corruption Perceptions Index. That is an index based on points. It is possible to fall behind other countries and still improve on eliminating corruption. Unfortunately that is not what happened under the present government.

They not only fell from a 5 way tie at 88th to 112 but the index is based on a scale of 0 to 100 with 100 being corruption free. No country has achieved that. At 0 it is entirely corrupt and no country has achieved that either.

What Thailand did under the PTP government was go from a score of 37 to 35, That is definite increase in corruption. Yingluck is not to bad looking and she says her government is fighting corruption. People believe her irregardless of the facts.

If Abhist had been the Prime Minister and taken the score from 37 to 39 many people would not believe him when he said he was fighting corruption. Welcome to Thailand where facts don't count if you have a pretty face.

If Thaksin had put in any one else no matter how qualified they are there would be even more protestors calling for reform.

Thailand is slowly waking up.

.

Edited December 21, 2013 by northernjohn

[Bpuumike]

Maybe they should outsource all government services to independent contractors offshore.

Mumbai or Dubai?