Democrats slam door on poll

[NanLaew]

Suthep and the body politic of established power - whose face the Democrat party is - are using the same game plan as last time. And it'll work in the short term because it's not that difficult to make a country ungovernable when the forces of law and order connive in the business. But it might be that this time around the people who are being disenfranchised by this nonsense won't wait five years before organizing a fight-back. For better or worse the genie of democracy is out of the bottle now, and the people of the provinces won't be so easily cowed. So the only way to effectively quell democratic aspirations and demands would be through massive repression. For Thailand, nothing looks good in the near future. It seems to be a choice between a massive fight or a regime of door knocks in the night and disappearances.

So why didn't the Democrats just wait for elections and take on the PTP politically? They have the funding and influence to have organized a massive campaign and with the government mis-spending, the rice subsidy debacle, etc, etc, the PTP was handing them ammunition hand over fist. They would have had their best chance of winning an election in 20 years. The only conclusion to be drawn is that the Democrats and the people behind them have no real interest in democracy except as window dressing for control by a ruling oligarchy, and now that they see an opportunity to do away with universal franchise altogether, they're grabbing it with both hands. Which, despite the claims of representing 'educated' people, puts them very far away indeed from the philosophical and moral principles which I was educated in.

A sound opinion. Abhisit even acknowledged that due to the PTP's spectacular series of own-goals, the Democrats have their best chance of toppling the incumbent government at the next election.

Then they suddenly throw in the towel, choose to boycott real democratic process and endorse Suthep's nebulous council of 'smarter than thou' opportunists.

[JRSoul]

Sometimes I think that a parody of democracy could be more dangerous than a blatant dictatorship, because that gives people an opportunity to avoid doing anything about it.

Aung San Suu Kyi

[SebD]

Sometimes I think that a parody of democracy could be more dangerous than a blatant dictatorship, because that gives people an opportunity to avoid doing anything about it.

Aung San Suu Kyi

Would that be the same Aung San Suu Kyi who now plays such a large (yet inefectual) part in the very parody of (Burmese) democracy she seeminly once railed against?

The same Aung San Suu Kyi who refuses to even protest, nevermind condemn, HER government's genocide of minority ethnic and religious groups within the borders of her own governmental "influence"?

Aung San Suu Kyi is less her own person and with less substance than the winner of last year's "X-Factor".

I'll take neither lessons nor lectures from Ms Aung San Suu Kyi, thank you very much.

Edited December 22, 2013 by SebD

[chooka]

Yes, or Suthep and Abhisit calling themselves democrats, then boycotting elections in favor for a peoples council chosen by themselves. OHH the irony!

There is a slight difference between Suthep & Abhisit.

Suthep demands reform and intends to do so via his "300 + 100" council. Nothing else will satisfy him.

Abhisit wants reform before elections, but I am not sure whether he has said explicitly that he supports Suthep's method. I suspect he can't be seen to advocate Suthep's 400, because that would really be unrepresentative and blatantly biased.

I think the Dems would be happy with a reform body with balanced reps from across the full Thai spectrum - and not from across just Suthep's (very narrow and personal) spectrum.

All this talk of reforms before elections, how is it going to be done? The democrats have resigned and the nutter Suthep demanded that Parliarment be dissolved which has been done. How are changes going to be passed when their is no government or opposition?

?

[DocN]

Sometimes I think that a parody of democracy could be more dangerous than a blatant dictatorship, because that gives people an opportunity to avoid doing anything about it.

Aung San Suu Kyi

Would that be the same Aung San Suu Kyi who now plays such a large (yet inefectual) part in the very parody of (Burmese) democracy she seeminly once railed against?

The same Aung San Suu Kyi who refuses to even protest, nevermind condemn, HER government's genocide of minority ethnic and religious groups within the borders of her own governmental "influence"?

Aung San Suu Kyi is less her own person and with less substance than the winner of last year's "X-Factor".

I'll take neither lessons nor lectures from Ms Aung San Suu Kyi, thank you very much.

Yeah that same Aung San Suu Kyi, who is revered the world over and is now playing it a bit safer, to change the system from within.

Which might take some time to work out!

Who are your idols?

Men with impressive mustaches?

[chooka]

Not going to register or contest the elections What a pack of lying hypocrites, the were the first party to register for the elections. Now they have organised via Suthep to try and block all other parties from registering that way they win in a landslide. gutter politics and definitely corrupt.

[whybother]

Not going to register or contest the elections What a pack of lying hypocrites, the were the first party to register for the elections. Now they have organised via Suthep to try and block all other parties from registering that way they win in a landslide. gutter politics and definitely corrupt.

Are you saying that the Democrats have registered?

Sent from my phone ...

[metisdead]

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[mikemac]

It really boggles my mind to how ignorant some people can be!

"Reform BEFORE elections is what the protests are about.... wake up!"

You mean the people who are in minority and lost the last election, and now are acting like complete idiots/spoiled brats/crybabies running around occupying government buildings, hi-jacking the countrys media and so forth?

Sheeesh...

I will agree with you on one thing, it does boggle the mind how ignorant some people can be.

You do realize that if not for the horrid track record of the Shinawatra regime none of this mayhem in Bangkok would be happening now ? It is only about one thing, removing the Shinawatras, and any other crooks associated with them, from Thai politics. and it is not just the Democrats who have had a gutfull of their evil ways, it has grown far bigger than that.

You red flag wavers and Yingluck groupies are so preoccupied by loonies like Suthep you are missing the point.

Wake up to yourselves or get your eyes checked and your ears cleaned out.

Most of you have only jumped on the Shinawatra bandwagon because you think they are here forever and will continue to buy their way into power. You just like to back a winner, whether they are right or wrong. How very shallow of you .

[fab4]

The Red shirts did not bring out the military, the military brought out the red shirts when they staged a military coup and overthrew a democratically elected government, get your history right .

... I think it is you that should check your Thai history.

1) There was no democratically elected government when the coup occurred in 2006. Thaksin was a care-taker PM after dissolving parliament for elections, which didn't produce a result.

2) The red shirts brought out their own armed militia 3 & 1/2 years after the coup, and 4 weeks after they started their protests in 2010 (after their failed protests in 2009).

-4 Feb 2006 Tens of thousands of protesters gather in Bangkok for the first major demonstration demanding Thaksin’s resignation.

-24 Feb 2006 Amidst growing protests Thaksin dissolves Parliament and calls snap elections for 2 April 2006.

-13 Mar 2006 Protesters march on Government House, Thaksins office, and vow to stay camped out until he resigns. -2 Apr 2006 Elections are boycotted by the opposition. TRT party wins 57 percent of votes but unopposed TRT candidates for 38 seats fail to get the necessary quorum of 20% of eligible votes, preventing parliament from opening. -4 Apr 2006 After an audience with King Bhumibol and under increasing pressure, Thaksin announces that he would not accept the post of Prime Minister after the Parliament reconvenes but that he would continue to be Caretaker Prime Minister until his successor is elected by the Parliament.

-Apr-May 2006 Thaksin takes a seven-week break from politics, but returns as caretaker Prime Minister and struggles to schedule a new election over increasing legal challenges.

-8 May 2006 The Constitution Court invalidates the results of the April elections and calls for new elections.

-30 May 2006 The Cabinet endorses an Election Commission proposal to hold a new round of elections on 15 October 2006.

-24 Aug 2006 Thaksin accuses several army officers of plotting to kill him after police find a car containing bomb-making materials near his house.

-19 Sep 2006 Military launches a coup detat while Thaksin is in New York at the UN General Assembly. Lead by General Sonthi Boonyaratglin, the coup leaders brand themselves the Council for Democratic Reform (CDR), suspend the constitution, and dissolve the Cabinet, both houses of Parliament, and the Constitutional Court. Coup leaders later refer to themselves as the Council for National Security (CNS)

Thank you for confirming that there was no elected government when the coup occurred.

There was a caretaker government in place as there is when awaiting a new election. You can dress up your love for the military coup any way you want whybother, but the facts are the military, staging a coup when they did, took away the right of the Thai electorate to decide who they wanted to govern them.

There is NO excuse for that, whether it be a military coup or the actions of one madman and his blindly following "followers".

[Old Man River]

They can have their tainted one sided election.

It won't change the feeling on the streets and will almost certainly make it worse.

Dems may well have sacrificed their best chance of winning, especially with the definite votes lost from red shirts who seem to be turning, especially the ones in the swing areas, thanks to the ludicrous amnesty bill. We even have the rice growers association protesting today. Add to that the fact YL only got 49% of a popularity poll that was conducted in their most dominant provinces (isaan).

So I doubt PTP would have walked this one.

I admire the Dems for their sacrifice, it must not have been an easy decision. But they are all about reform before elections as are the majority of the population. Anyone NOT for this, you really have to question their motives.

You seem to know what you're talking about. Do you know where I can read about what the proposed reforms are? Or what the nature of them will be?

I'm completely at a loss on the issue. Is it a new kind of election system? Or a purge of officials seen to be serving something other than the country?

Or does nobody know and we're just hoping they'll be good?

The link below are some suggestions made in 2011.

http://anfrel.org/civil-society-organisations-propose-revamp-of-thai-electoral-system/

[whybother]

There was a caretaker government in place as there is when awaiting a new election. You can dress up your love for the military coup any way you want whybother, but the facts are the military, staging a coup when they did, took away the right of the Thai electorate to decide who they wanted to govern them.

There is NO excuse for that, whether it be a military coup or the actions of one madman and his blindly following "followers".

Thank you also for confirming that there was no elected government in place.

For the record, I have never been in favour of coups.

[Hulkster]

Let the arrogant Bangkok elite dig their own graves.

You don't want democracy you want war, then so be it.

I know who I'm backing in the civil war come February, and it's not the side made up of vitamin D deficient pufferfish who can barely jog a lap of Lumpini Park without passing out.

[geriatrickid]

Suthep is the man who delivered Surat Thani and Phuket for the Democrats.

Without him, voter turnout will be down significantly and the lack of those votes would make a crucial difference in the election.

The Democrats haven't a shot without Suthep's network and machine.

IMO, that is the reason for the sudden change of heart.

Whatever one thinks of Suthep, he could deliver the votes in the south and the Democrats are nothing without the south

[HerbalEd]

What a joke. An anti-election ... i.e., anti-democratic ... party that calls it self "democrats." The real reason they don't want elections is because they're afraid they'll loose the election yet again.

BTW, I'd be very happy to see Yingluck and her Taksin-loving politicians out of power ... and I actually thought that Abbisit was a highly qualified PM ... but the Democrats are totally blowing it right now. What a mess.

[Bpuumike]

If I was running the Democrats I'd want to step back and let Yingluck, Thaksin and their friends pick up the wreckage from their failed policies.

No money to pay the farmers for the rice that can't be sold and I suspect no funds to pay the red shirts.

The good news is the baht is heading back to 70 as the birds come home to roost.

Thailand will end up as a basket case like Greece and Spain when the tourist money heads to unspoilt Burma with its huge Andaman coastline.

Nah, they want to pick up that 2 Trillion loan before they disappear and THEN let the Democrats pick up the pieces.

[62strat]

I don't think the Democrats slammed the door on Elections as much as they were unwilling to confort the rabid bull dog, growling at those who choose elections over his grand selections.

[SebD]

Sometimes I think that a parody of democracy could be more dangerous than a blatant dictatorship, because that gives people an opportunity to avoid doing anything about it.

Aung San Suu Kyi

Would that be the same Aung San Suu Kyi who now plays such a large (yet inefectual) part in the very parody of (Burmese) democracy she seeminly once railed against?

The same Aung San Suu Kyi who refuses to even protest, nevermind condemn, HER government's genocide of minority ethnic and religious groups within the borders of her own governmental "influence"?

Aung San Suu Kyi is less her own person and with less substance than the winner of last year's "X-Factor".

I'll take neither lessons nor lectures from Ms Aung San Suu Kyi, thank you very much.

Yeah that same Aung San Suu Kyi, who is revered the world over and is now playing it a bit safer, to change the system from within.

Which might take some time to work out!

Who are your idols?

Men with impressive mustaches?

Cliff Richard is revered by many, Henry Kissinger by many more, as was Adolph Hiltler, Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris.

The three Kim Jongs are still revered by many.

Blind reverence is proof of now't.

The moustaches of Gandhi and Mandela were impressive, indeed. Not sure about St Francis (no photographic records are known to exist).

Edited December 23, 2013 by SebD

[jackrich]

Maybe this infographic explains as to why Democrats are not participating in the upcoming elections.

[MAJIC]

Yingluck says the dems should respect the rules? Why the hell are all these people on the street if not to protest PTP raping all the rules! Barbie brain Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"Yingluck says the dems should respect the rules? "

And she should also remember,that the rules are:...... you do not arrange a 4 am vote on changing the Constitution to suit your Criminal Brothers return, which was the basic cause of your own,misjudgement,and abuse of power! and now you know what the people will not tolerate!

[SebD]

Yingluck says the dems should respect the rules? Why the hell are all these people on the street if not to protest PTP raping all the rules! Barbie brain Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"Yingluck says the dems should respect the rules? "

And she should also remember,that the rules are:...... you do not arrange a 4 am vote on changing the Constitution to suit your Criminal Brothers return, which was the basic cause of your own,misjudgement,and abuse of power! and now you know what the people will not tolerate!

A very small, in fact relatively few, [Thai] "people will not tolerate" it.

A pretty small minority of the Thai people (invariably the well-shod and/or their hapless followers) want the (self-called) "Democrats" in power.

You're either FOR democracy, or you ain't (no fence-sitting allowed).

Which are you for - democracy or autocracy?

A very simple question, that I fear you already answered in your earlier post.

Edited December 24, 2013 by SebD

[SebD]

Maybe this infographic explains as to why Democrats are not participating in the upcoming elections.

In a nutshell. A set of pictures paint a thousand words.

Abhisit's political philosophy seems to be "If we can't convince you, we'll strongarm you".

They have the Army (because they have the financial resources to buy the Generals).

A coup, by any other name, would smell as rank.

Edited December 24, 2013 by SebD

[geriatrickid]

Yingluck says the dems should respect the rules? Why the hell are all these people on the street if not to protest PTP raping all the rules! Barbie brain Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"Yingluck says the dems should respect the rules? "

And she should also remember,that the rules are:...... you do not arrange a 4 am vote on changing the Constitution to suit your Criminal Brothers return, which was the basic cause of your own,misjudgement,and abuse of power! and now you know what the people will not tolerate!

The skillful use of parliamentary procedure and rules is part of how countries are governed. Have you looked at how the UK and Canada have invoked closure, or the current Canadian government's constant use of proroguing parliament? How about the US Congress' methods? Have you seen what goes on in South Korea, Japan or Taiwan? It is not the PM's fault that the Abhisit and his clowns are disorganized and held by the short hairs by khun Suthep. It was Abhisit and his advisors who created the Suthep power machine and now he has to live with it.

[michaeljordan]

Once a serious violent fight breaks out, and it might this time, both sides will be caught in a war of sorts that will end in destruction of what is today a more modern Thailand.

One side sees its way of life under threat by Democratic elections that they know they will lose. The majority Reds see elections as their human right.

How many were here after the economic collapse?

This could be far worse should a war break out.

Remember?

On 14 May and 15 May 1997, the Thai baht was hit by massive speculative attacks. On 30 June 1997, Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh said that he would not devalue the baht. This was the spark that ignited the Asian financial crisis as the Thai government failed to defend the baht, which was pegged to the basket of currencies in which the U.S. dollar was the main component,^[29] against international speculators.

Thailand's booming economy came to a halt amid massive layoffs in finance, real estate, and construction that resulted in huge numbers of workers returning to their villages in the countryside and 600,000 foreign workers being sent back to their home countries.^[30] The baht devalued swiftly and lost more than half of its value. The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the US dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.^[31]

Without foreign reserves to support the US-Baht currency peg, the Thai government was eventually forced to float the Baht, on 2 July 1997, allowing the value of the Baht to be set by the currency market. On 11 August 1997, the IMF unveiled a rescue package for Thailand with more than $17 billion, subject to conditions such as passing laws relating to bankruptcy (reorganizing and restructuring) procedures and establishing strong regulation frameworks for banks and other financial institutions. The IMF approved on 20 August 1997, another bailout package of $3.9 billion.

[geriatrickid]

I don't think the Democrats slammed the door on Elections as much as they were unwilling to confort the rabid bull dog, growling at those who choose elections over his grand selections.

Suthep is the key man in the south. Without him, the voter turnout in Surat Thani and Phuket will not be stellar. Suthep is the man who made sure the muslim votes in the south were delivered to the Democrats. Without Suthep's support, the Democrats are in deep doodoo. Whatever scorn he may deserve, the man is the classic political boss and Abhisit needs the man and his power base. Suthep is cut from the same cloth as some other Thai politicians and he can brawl with the Redshirts, something Abhisit can't do. Suthep is a tough guy, not easily intimidated and is looking for a fight.

[SebD]

I don't think the Democrats slammed the door on Elections as much as they were unwilling to confort the rabid bull dog, growling at those who choose elections over his grand selections.

Suthep is the key man in the south. Without him, the voter turnout in Surat Thani and Phuket will not be stellar. Suthep is the man who made sure the muslim votes in the south were delivered to the Democrats. Without Suthep's support, the Democrats are in deep doodoo. Whatever scorn he may deserve, the man is the classic political boss and Abhisit needs the man and his power base. Suthep is cut from the same cloth as some other Thai politicians and he can brawl with the Redshirts, something Abhisit can't do. Suthep is a tough guy, not easily intimidated and is looking for a fight.

"Suthep is a tough guy, not easily intimidated and is looking for a fight".

With Abhisit being barely fit to even hold the loser's coat.