Spotlight on foreign media coverage of Bangkok's crisis

[GrantSmith]

You wrote, " Who took those photos? Who wrote that book? You catching on yet?

I wrote, "He was a 21 year old American surfer who took nude of Bangkok hookers 20 years ago with an Instamatic camera. It has nothing to do with this thread by any stretch of the imagination."

I answered your questions but all you can do is flame some more.

You want me to answer 3 times? OK, Who took those photos? A 21 year old surfer with an Instamatic camera. Who wrote that book? A 21 year old American surfer. You catching on yet? No, It has nothing to do with this thread by any stretch of the imagination.

The only hope you can possibly have to restore your posting credibility is to continue to bicker and perhaps all the posts including the ones with your false claims will be removed.

Hahahah you're either ridiculously one eyed or you really can't put the puzzle together... Again you haven't answered the questions, but keep living in your little cocoon

Here's another clue... The interviewee has recently found himself subject to claims of alleged violence stemming from attempts to attend the current protests...

[Thait Spot]

Head was blown into absurdity on the Beeb today

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pi Sek]

I hope the mods don't see this as off topic but sometimes reporting can be influenced or at least an attempt at by the reporters' own embassies.

I say this because about 17 years ago in Manila I met two German reporters working for a business related publication who were there to report on a conference of Pacific Rim nations. They had received a great orientation briefing at the German embassy which was soured by a request / warning not to write what they saw around Manila of a negative nature.

The diplomat who spoke said something along the lines of if they publish something negative etc. it was the embassy that had to pick up the pieces and take the flak from the Phillipine's Foreign Ministry.

I'm not saying that the BBC are influenced by the embassy here but diplomats do not like problems.

Should we all bring up stories about 20 or 30 years ago about Germans in the Philippines? And ...

And what ? ust pointing on that things go on behind the scenes and news reports can be tailored to suit rather than being as direct as they might be.

Too complicated ?

No too off topic. 17 years ago in Manilla? Aw come on now. The mod already said stay away from Vietnam comparisons. This is today in Bangkok. You have a debate between a poster on a blog run by Russia being compared to BBC and NYT. A Russian blog and the New York Times or the British Broadcasting Corp. Who ya gonna trust?

I do not trust Russian blogs (or any bogs for that matter), but it would certainly be folly to trust either the NYT or the BBC. They are both scoundrels with regards to factual reporting and have preferred the tabloid news route for well over a decade.

[Baerboxer]

What's amazing is the amount of reasonable,liberal red shirts suddenly supposedly "appearing", ready to listen to the other's point of view and accept criticism and opposing comments. Would this be the same group that intimidates judges who rule against their government? The group that supports a government that not so longer ago severely threatened free speech - remember the police threats about social media, or daring to press "like" buttons on any comments against PTP? Remember the defamation suits? Remember the use of Tarit to threaten and intimidate critics?

Just on this - there has always been both an extremist reactionary wing (Rak Chiang Mai 51 for instance) and a liberal wing of the red shirts e.g. Sombat and the young mostly urban people that support various liberal/radical academics who might be considered 'red'. They tend to be educated and read liberal online publications like Prachatai. They're skeptical of Thaksin and much of what the government has done but strongly want to see parliamentary democracy succeed. This group haven't just appeared but it might be getting larger. But most reds will fall somewhere in between the two groups.

Let's not conflate the government with the reds though. That would be like conflating the current protesters with the Democrat leadership. They weren't exactly pushing media freedom when they were in power either - and they were also not shy of using Tarit in a similar way to PTP. But I agree with you. More needs to be done to challenge authoritarianism of all stripes.

There are liberals who initially joined the anti-amnesty protest and strongly want the 'Thaksin regime' to go. But I believe some have been put off as the protest has taken on a more anti-democratic, often nationalist tinge*. It's a shame because often these people would find a lot to agree on with the liberal red shirts. It's the extremists on both sides that are causing the problem. Like I was saying yesterday to Bluespunk I think it was, liberal red shirts didn't do enough to challenge PTP and the same goes for liberal Democrat supporters wrt to the relationship with their party. Shame they can't just withdraw support from both parties and form a genuinely liberal/progressive party really. Something that offers a change to both the capitalists and the old order.

*It's not clear how many of the current protesters support this. The Asia Survey found that about half the PDRC protesters they interviewed would support a 'strong' unelected ruler, whilst half believed the leader must be democratically elected. This compares to 90% of the red shirts who believed the leader must be democratically elected. So there's a mixture of believes within the PDRC. From what I've read of the protesters online, many seem strongly royalist and nationalist. The problem with online comments is it tends to bring out the extremists though. So I won't make too much of that. Like I say, ordinary people like my partner supported the PDRC initially but would never agree with a lot of the right-wing stuff that some of the groups leaders and supporters come out with.

I agree. Where do the people who want a truly democratic government, one that governs for the best interests of the country go to? Certainly not PTP, they've taken corruption and ineptness to new levels. I know many people, of very different backgrounds, who voted PTP last time and feel badly betrayed. They are sick of the lies, cheating, corruption and above all with Thaksin running things. They feel badly let down and many have joined some of the protests.

They don't agree with Suthep, or want a return to being governed by a party that looks after the interests of the old amart wealthy families first. But they do want the Shiniwattras out and will side Suthep on that. They don't see the Democrat Party as a viable alternative.

They all know that less corruption, the rule of law, goes hand in hand with democracy. But they don't know how to get there. And, sadly, there does not appear to be any leaders, thinkers, and moral politicians coming to the fore to form new alternative parties, free from the old influences or owned by one or more families.

All the Thais I know are royalist and nationalist, in the sense they love king and country. Most I know are totally dissatisfied with the current political parties and the system that elects them. They want change but have no vision on what that change could look like. Unless something dramatic happens both PTP and Democrats / Suthep will continue to exploit this to their own advantage.

[blokker]

Good to see Cartalucci getting some exposure. He is a rare bird in that he reports facts without allowing emotion to cloud his judgement, which combined with his long term familiarity with Thailand makes his articles well worth reading. All too often these international reporters, some clearly looking like disheveled junkies, seek short term relationships with workers in the "entertainment" industries, straight after arriving in country from other less hospitable places, and read way too much into the drunken pillow talk they hear.

We're talking about the same Tony Cartalucci right? This is conspiracy theorist Tony Cartalucci that writes for Alex Jones' Infowars? Does he report the 'facts' in the same way that Alex Jones does?

Yes, the very same.Still it's interesting that he is getting much exposure on the Thai political crisis, and is widely quoted - even though a quick survey of his views (on non Thai matters) demonstrates he is nuts.He is for example a passionate Assad supporter and believes 9/11 was an inside job etc etc.I know nothing about his background but it is curiously akin to the mindset of some Indian/Pakistani commentators - where zany conspiracy theory is a way of life.

The trouble is the Democrat/Suthep people have a conflicted view of foreign press coverage.They hate to have their darker side scrutinised by outsiders and yet at the same time crave foreign approval.Unfortunately every serious foreign news source, academic, think tank, ambassador tends to identify the obvious - namely the deeply undemocratic nature of the anti government opposition.This means that their few foreign supporters are given great prominence, not only the laughable Cartalucci but also the equally absurd American, Michael Yon.Personally I find Michael Yon more absurd than Cartalucci, because at least the latter has some command of the material.Yon is just plain ignorant.Yet both have huge support across the social media from the actiivist urban middle class - and shamefully for educated men, Abhisit and Korn have taken up Michael Yon as a credible source.

Finally, since invoking oddities like Cartalucci/Yon etc is ultimately self defeating we will inevitably hear more on the lines that Thailand is utterly inexplicable to foreigners, follows unique rules unknown to other countries and that you have to be a Thai (in practice often descendants of Southern Chinese coolies) to appreciate "Thainess".

Yeah!!

Reporting on Thailand in INYT, Time, BBC to me looks like a good source, of mostly unbiased, information.

What else to read or watch? The Nation and Bangkok Post? Military-owned TV Channel 5?

Sorayot and his gang of comedians and models on Channel 3? Woody? Blue Star? DNN? Give me break.

But, must say that today on Channel 11 they broadcasted a forum about democracy

where a scholar from Thammasat university went on to explain in great detail that what Sutheep wants is a fascist government.

It meets all the definitions of fascism, apparently. I am not a political scientist, and this has never occurred to me before. Great eye opener!

Now that was interesting TV. Bangkok, hub of .... [ please fill in yourself; I am afraid of the gestapo!! ]

Edited December 22, 2013 by blokker

[15Peter20]

I see that BlueSkyTV - an anti-gov TV station - has announced that 6 million people attended the rallies on Sunday. Makes the foreign media look pretty reliable by comparison.

Edited December 22, 2013 by 15Peter20

[Thai at Heart]

Part of the lack of understanding about Vietnam during the early phases of that war in the US media was because many, if not most, foreign correspondents collected their stories from the safety and ease of a barstool in Saigon's Hotel Continental. I doubt if too much has changed for these Time, Newsweek, BBC, and NY Times types, except that they jet in and out of places like Bangkok even faster than their old contemporaries, who at least were stationed for years in the countries they covered 50 years ago.

Jonathan Head of the BBC has been based in Bangkok for many years and in the region even longer, at least 15 years, except when he was sent on "sabbatical" (shall we say) to Istanbul for a couple of years after being charged with lese majeste in Thailand. I don't see any barstools in his TV reports.

When I see any SE Asia correspondent from the Beeb, I cringe. I'm just thankful I no longer need a licence to watch them.

If they really really did their job properly, they would be out of the country in a moment, or shot.

How can you make political comment in a country where you would be sued for defamation at the drop off a hat let alone lese majeste.

They are forced to pedal a softly softly approach by law and also possibly politics from the GB Embassy. The embassy knows this has never been about democracy and don't want to cut off their ability to talk to the winners.

Just look how quickly they pushed Thaksin out of the uk the moment the junta started talking about tescos share structure.

In that case why bother? Notice how Thailand dropped of the radar when Mandala died until his funeral?

Indeed in terms of news no one really gives a dam.if thailand has a protest or two.. It doesn't make or break any internationally vital industries,or endanger massive amounts of foreign investment.

The majority of the damage is internal.

No oil, no nuclear weapons, no refugees, no christians, Jews or Muslims and no white people hurt.

Globally, who cares?

[MrSlatersParrot]

I really can't see why Jonathan Head is getting so much abuse on here. I find his reports very carefully and accurately worded to provide a concise report without glaring omissions or bias for the international viewer. In summary, the work of a competent and professional correspondent for a major news organisation.

Some of the comments here are just hysterical and many lack supporting details, information or examples.

I have met a number of the leading BBC reporters around the world from the any questions program , the then political respondent for the BBC and had a long conversation with the US correspondent, he of the shaven head, now reporting from Germany.(can't remember names off hand)

I also had photojournalist friends at the Daily Telegraph ( a UK "right wing newspaper editorially but not the staff).

As a then tory i found they were as apolitical people as I have ever found.

I guess if you shoot porn all day you might get a state of ennui!

They say, well in UK politics, when you've been around long enough you get to see and understand both or all sides of an argument.

To see from the other side.

it doesn't mean you have to agree.

I think Jonathan Head is doing an excellent job. More coverage please.

[MrSlatersParrot]

What's amazing is the amount of reasonable,liberal red shirts suddenly supposedly "appearing", ready to listen to the other's point of view and accept criticism and opposing comments. Would this be the same group that intimidates judges who rule against their government? The group that supports a government that not so longer ago severely threatened free speech - remember the police threats about social media, or daring to press "like" buttons on any comments against PTP? Remember the defamation suits? Remember the use of Tarit to threaten and intimidate critics?

Just on this - there has always been both an extremist reactionary wing (Rak Chiang Mai 51 for instance) and a liberal wing of the red shirts e.g. Sombat and the young mostly urban people that support various liberal/radical academics who might be considered 'red'. They tend to be educated and read liberal online publications like Prachatai. They're skeptical of Thaksin and much of what the government has done but strongly want to see parliamentary democracy succeed. This group haven't just appeared but it might be getting larger. But most reds will fall somewhere in between the two groups.

Let's not conflate the government with the reds though. That would be like conflating the current protesters with the Democrat leadership. They weren't exactly pushing media freedom when they were in power either - and they were also not shy of using Tarit in a similar way to PTP. But I agree with you. More needs to be done to challenge authoritarianism of all stripes.

There are liberals who initially joined the anti-amnesty protest and strongly want the 'Thaksin regime' to go. But I believe some have been put off as the protest has taken on a more anti-democratic, often nationalist tinge*. It's a shame because often these people would find a lot to agree on with the liberal red shirts. It's the extremists on both sides that are causing the problem. Like I was saying yesterday to Bluespunk I think it was, liberal red shirts didn't do enough to challenge PTP and the same goes for liberal Democrat supporters wrt to the relationship with their party. Shame they can't just withdraw support from both parties and form a genuinely liberal/progressive party really. Something that offers a change to both the capitalists and the old order.

*It's not clear how many of the current protesters support this. The Asia Survey found that about half the PDRC protesters they interviewed would support a 'strong' unelected ruler, whilst half believed the leader must be democratically elected. This compares to 90% of the red shirts who believed the leader must be democratically elected. So there's a mixture of believes within the PDRC. From what I've read of the protesters online, many seem strongly royalist and nationalist. The problem with online comments is it tends to bring out the extremists though. So I won't make too much of that. Like I say, ordinary people like my partner supported the PDRC initially but would never agree with a lot of the right-wing stuff that some of the groups leaders and supporters come out with.

I agree. Where do the people who want a truly democratic government, one that governs for the best interests of the country go to? Certainly not PTP, they've taken corruption and ineptness to new levels. I know many people, of very different backgrounds, who voted PTP last time and feel badly betrayed. They are sick of the lies, cheating, corruption and above all with Thaksin running things. They feel badly let down and many have joined some of the protests.

They don't agree with Suthep, or want a return to being governed by a party that looks after the interests of the old amart wealthy families first. But they do want the Shiniwattras out and will side Suthep on that. They don't see the Democrat Party as a viable alternative.

They all know that less corruption, the rule of law, goes hand in hand with democracy. But they don't know how to get there. And, sadly, there does not appear to be any leaders, thinkers, and moral politicians coming to the fore to form new alternative parties, free from the old influences or owned by one or more families.

All the Thais I know are royalist and nationalist, in the sense they love king and country. Most I know are totally dissatisfied with the current political parties and the system that elects them. They want change but have no vision on what that change could look like. Unless something dramatic happens both PTP and Democrats / Suthep will continue to exploit this to their own advantage.

Good post but the fly in the ointment for me is where you say your friends are all royalist and nationalist.

Why?

Why do they need to be?

Is it because for them the otherside are not both or neither/ Them and us?

You may not like this but I see a best outcome.

New parliament. no Dems.

Reform of civil service proposed.

Real penalties for malfeance.

80% of business corruption according to Nation article I referred to before is through business non-payment of taxes through under-reporting of receipts etc

ONly 11% attributable to bureaurat/business contract malfeance.

Reforms galore!!!

Of course there remains the Constitution court and its big spanner

[Arkady]

Deleted by Arkady

[jat1012]

'The lack of depth and research in most possibly indicates the lack of real interest in Thailand.' A quote from a previous post. Really, I was given to believe that Thailand was the centre of the sentient world, and that external opinions/views/personal and political standards were not apllicable here when they conflict with 'Thainess'. Is 'Thainess' the inability to take responsibility for one's own actions? To admit an error?

I had to search the western media for reports on Thailand. When I found reports they were very basic. There was nothing proclaiming that 'Thainess' seems to mean the acceptance of a very corrupt feudal structure and that one-man-one-vote democracy does not fit comfortably in this structure.One side has the political power of vast numbers of ill educated (not their fault) voters, the other has little political power (not enough votes) but the support of the 'educated', the 'elite' and rich, so wields great fiscal/administrative/military power . No mention that stability of the country is held together by the love of the people for the current King. I can see no short term answer to the current problems, long term would be to vastly improve the 'education' system, instil basic concepts of honesty and truth into Thai society from kindergarten upwards. I fear that the situation will deteriorate , possibly even a civil war, before Thailand , as a nation starts to extract itself from the cesspit if incestuous corruption it is decending into.

[Thai at Heart]

'The lack of depth and research in most possibly indicates the lack of real interest in Thailand.' A quote from a previous post. Really, I was given to believe that Thailand was the centre of the sentient world, and that external opinions/views/personal and political standards were not apllicable here when they conflict with 'Thainess'. Is 'Thainess' the inability to take responsibility for one's own actions? To admit an error?

I had to search the western media for reports on Thailand. When I found reports they were very basic. There was nothing proclaiming that 'Thainess' seems to mean the acceptance of a very corrupt feudal structure and that one-man-one-vote democracy does not fit comfortably in this structure.One side has the political power of vast numbers of ill educated (not their fault) voters, the other has little political power (not enough votes) but the support of the 'educated', the 'elite' and rich, so wields great fiscal/administrative/military power . No mention that stability of the country is held together by the love of the people for the current King. I can see no short term answer to the current problems, long term would be to vastly improve the 'education' system, instil basic concepts of honesty and truth into Thai society from kindergarten upwards. I fear that the situation will deteriorate , possibly even a civil war, before Thailand , as a nation starts to extract itself from the cesspit if incestuous corruption it is decending into.

The western feeling towards Thailand is very similar to most powerful Thais.

I couldn't give a dam as long as it doesn't effect me. Why should the west give a dam if the Thais insist on playing with themselves debating what type of democracy they want.

The fact they even debate it shows how childish they are. There is no Thai democracy, no Asian version, no democracy with rules to make it more palatable.

There is democracy. A concept, an idea and a process to govern by the will of the people.

So is it any wonder the west really couldn't care less? They listen to Suthep or yingluck for 10 minutes and realise they are capable of ideas much the same as 12 year olds.

[wiki12]

Funny how Thailand is inexplicable to the Western media, while Egypt and the Ukraine are crystal clear, i.e. it's OK for democratically elected leaders who abuse their power and don't favour Western interests to be deposed through protests without bleading hearted cries from the BBC, CNN et al.

Bang on Dogmatix!

You missed a few countries off the Biased Broadcasting Corporation's list though!

[Spare]

BBC don't seems to be doing too well in this year coverage.

What happen to the CNN guys in 2010 battle of Bangkok massacre? Dan or something?

[Local Drunk]

The foreign media has never had, and will never have anything more than a very small effect on what actually happens in Thai politics. Suthep's comments of we don't respect farangs is something that I've always read to mean we don't respect "foreign opinions of Thailand in the media" and that is the attitude of most Thais I know.

[Dogmatix]

The foreign media has never had, and will never have anything more than a very small effect on what actually happens in Thai politics. Suthep's comments of we don't respect farangs is something that I've always read to mean we don't respect "foreign opinions of Thailand in the media" and that is the attitude of most Thais I know.

If that is the case, why did Yingluck and Surapong embark on a PR campaign with the international media highlighting their commitment to dirty democracy and the misrule of law with Surapong reeling off a list of 49 countries that supported resolving the Thai political situation through more vote buying elections. - what else are they expected to say?

[Asiantravel]

I really can't see why Jonathan Head is getting so much abuse on here. I find his reports very carefully and accurately worded to provide a concise report without glaring omissions or bias for the international viewer. In summary, the work of a competent and professional correspondent for a major news organisation.

Some of the comments here are just hysterical and many lack supporting details, information or examples.

I have met a number of the leading BBC reporters around the world from the any questions program , the then political respondent for the BBC and had a long conversation with the US correspondent, he of the shaven head, now reporting from Germany.(can't remember names off hand)

I also had photojournalist friends at the Daily Telegraph ( a UK "right wing newspaper editorially but not the staff).

As a then tory i found they were as apolitical people as I have ever found.

I guess if you shoot porn all day you might get a state of ennui!

They say, well in UK politics, when you've been around long enough you get to see and understand both or all sides of an argument.

To see from the other side.

it doesn't mean you have to agree.

I think Jonathan Head is doing an excellent job. More coverage please.

Agreed. Jonathan Head was spot-on this morning when he talked about the opposition sabotaging the democratic process. He also raised the very salient question being if sorely needed reforms are to take place they could take months or even years and who is going to govern the country during the meantime ?

Surely not Suthep and his band of anarchists because if they get into power they may never give it up again based on their past track record

[Thai at Heart]

The foreign media has never had, and will never have anything more than a very small effect on what actually happens in Thai politics. Suthep's comments of we don't respect farangs is something that I've always read to mean we don't respect "foreign opinions of Thailand in the media" and that is the attitude of most Thais I know.

Funny isn't it. They don't care that they keep making the country and themselves look like a nest of thieves.

I mean honestly, everyone groans when they talk of Zimbabwe. I suppose it's because they have controlled the will of the people so well, that they keep smiling whenever the system nicks another baht from everyone's pocket.

Just look at it. Suthep is seen as a saviour from corruption.

[metisdead]

A number of bickering posts and replies have been removed, I think we can now get back on topic.

[Dogmatix]

You gotta love Jonathan Head's piece this morning. From protestors in Bangkok defiantly shaking their fists in the air and shouting "Chaiyo" the scene segues to one of bucolic serenity with ploughed rice fields, banana trees and grazing buffaloes. Suddenly amongst the furrows an attractive, well groomed middle aged woman appears, apparently a farmer. Fortunately for Jonathan she turns out to speak fluent English of the sort that cannot be learned in Thailand's rural state schools. She articlulates to camera the pain of the downtrodden rural poor whose informed views on who should govern the country and how are yet again being cruelly ignored by the elitist anti-democratic protestors of Bangkok. The report closes with a brief lecture from Jonathan on the legality of the caretaker Shinawatra government and the impracticality of reforming the constitution. Off camera we can imagine Jonathan and the part time farm hand repairing to Bangkok in the farm vehicle, a chauffeur driven S-class, and relaxing with a bottle of champagne at the FCCT, while reading Robert Amsterdam's congratulatory text.

[Spare]

You gotta love Jonathan Head's piece this morning. From protestors in Bangkok defiantly shaking their fists in the air and shouting "Chaiyo" the scene segues to one of bucolic serenity with ploughed rice fields, banana trees and grazing buffaloes. Suddenly amongst the furrows an attractive, well groomed middle aged woman appears, apparently a farmer. Fortunately for Jonathan she turns out to speak fluent English of the sort that cannot be learned in Thailand's rural state schools. She articlulates to camera the pain of the downtrodden rural poor whose informed views on who should govern the country and how are yet again being cruelly ignored by the elitist anti-democratic protestors of Bangkok. The report closes with a brief lecture from Jonathan on the legality of the caretaker Shinawatra government and the impracticality of reforming the constitution. Off camera we can imagine Jonathan and the part time farm hand repairing to Bangkok in the farm vehicle, a chauffeur driven S-class, and relaxing with a bottle of champagne at the FCCT, while reading Robert Amsterdam's congratulatory text.

Are you implying that Mr. Head is on Thaksin's payroll?

[Dogmatix]

You gotta love Jonathan Head's piece this morning. From protestors in Bangkok defiantly shaking their fists in the air and shouting "Chaiyo" the scene segues to one of bucolic serenity with ploughed rice fields, banana trees and grazing buffaloes. Suddenly amongst the furrows an attractive, well groomed middle aged woman appears, apparently a farmer. Fortunately for Jonathan she turns out to speak fluent English of the sort that cannot be learned in Thailand's rural state schools. She articlulates to camera the pain of the downtrodden rural poor whose informed views on who should govern the country and how are yet again being cruelly ignored by the elitist anti-democratic protestors of Bangkok. The report closes with a brief lecture from Jonathan on the legality of the caretaker Shinawatra government and the impracticality of reforming the constitution. Off camera we can imagine Jonathan and the part time farm hand repairing to Bangkok in the farm vehicle, a chauffeur driven S-class, and relaxing with a bottle of champagne at the FCCT, while reading Robert Amsterdam's congratulatory text.

Are you implying that Mr. Head is on Thaksin's payroll?

Of course not. You overlooked the word "imagine". The scene, once the TV news report has finished, is imaginary and obviously satyrical (but the report is described as I saw it screened this morning). I didn't say anything about payment and I am certain that the egregious Mr Head receives none from any source other than the beeb. Hence his sartorial appearance. But would you say that Robert Amsterdam would have found anything to dislike about the report, if he had seen it? Did you see it? I didn't know that Robert Amsterdam channeled funds to journalists for coverage favorable to Thaksin, or that he was even still working for Thaksin. If that is what you are suggesting, please tell us more.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dogmatix

[andyww]

The problem is, Head and others who are reporting from Thailand would not be able to tell all the details even if they knew them (which I am not convinced they do).

He cant reveal the direct support that Suthep is getting from "certain people" on high. He cant directly discuss the roots of the class system in Thailand. The fact that such subjects are banned is a huge advantage to Suthep.

Even on this forum not all the details are allowed to be discussed. To be honest the best appraisal of the real story can be obtained by mixing with the "connected" Thai community outside of Thailand where they are allowed to discuss openly. The fact is, those "in the know" who are best placed to know the full situation unanimously consider Suthep is a means to an end, the end being reclamation of government by the upper class backed by "those on high", using military force, a situation which they are dreading.

I cant believe that some foreigners on this forum actually support the protesters. They either dont know all the details, or they are stupid. I would also bet that 99% of those on the streets dont understand the full situation either.

Edited December 23, 2013 by andyww

[DocN]

The problem is, Head and others who are reporting from Thailand would not be able to tell all the details even if they knew them (which I am not convinced they do).

He cant reveal the direct support that Suthep is getting from "certain people" on high. He cant directly discuss the roots of the class system in Thailand. The fact that such subjects are banned is a huge advantage to Suthep.

Even on this forum not all the details are allowed to be discussed. To be honest the best appraisal of the real story can be obtained by mixing with the "connected" Thai community outside of Thailand where they are allowed to discuss openly. The fact is, those "in the know" who are best placed to know the full situation unanimously consider Suthep is a means to an end, the end being reclamation of government by the upper class backed by "those on high", using military force, a situation which they are dreading.

I cant believe that some foreigners on this forum actually support the protesters. They either dont know all the details, or they are stupid. I would also bet that 99% of those on the streets dont understand the full situation either.

I actually think, they know!

There are many articles out there -in the real world- that perfectly well describe connections and tell names.

[holeyman1]

I too, would also like to know which foreign media is not biased..!

All are, to a certain extent or are unable to interview the common man on the streets.

Hankering more on the "main attraction" rather than the real issues at hand.

Hence, I take all news with a pinch of salt, nothing more, often less

[Dogmatix]

The problem is, Head and others who are reporting from Thailand would not be able to tell all the details even if they knew them (which I am not convinced they do).

He cant reveal the direct support that Suthep is getting from "certain people" on high. He cant directly discuss the roots of the class system in Thailand. The fact that such subjects are banned is a huge advantage to Suthep.

Even on this forum not all the details are allowed to be discussed. To be honest the best appraisal of the real story can be obtained by mixing with the "connected" Thai community outside of Thailand where they are allowed to discuss openly. The fact is, those "in the know" who are best placed to know the full situation unanimously consider Suthep is a means to an end, the end being reclamation of government by the upper class backed by "those on high", using military force, a situation which they are dreading.

I cant believe that some foreigners on this forum actually support the protesters. They either dont know all the details, or they are stupid. I would also bet that 99% of those on the streets dont understand the full situation either.

Love it The hundreds of thousands of protestors have no idea what they are protesting about and even Kamnan Thep has no idea that he might be merely a tool of some mysterious Jedi force. Presumably 99% of red shirts also have no idea why they rioted and burned down shopping malls and provincial halls and the men in black don't know why they were paid to shoot at soldiers. Only the egregious Mr Head, some expat Thais (but presumably not the ones that were protesting outside Thai embassies and consulates overseas) and their lucky farang friends, who have been initiated into the mysteries, know what this is really all about but none will say anything about it. Because of their silence it will go on and on for many years to come.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dogmatix

[Dogmatix]

"President of the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Thailand Anasuya Sanyal said foreign correspondents who cover political situation in Thailand included those with full-time positions and freelancers who are based here, plus others who just fly in to report the situation. They may or may not come to the FCCT and ask other journalists for recommendation about news sources. As well as expertise on their topic of interest, they often just want people who can communicate clearly in English."

Referring back to the original post, I would say that some of the international media reports have the flavour of i-Reporters in the Lybian civil war, i.e. just get anyone who can speak reasonable English to articulate the situation - "OMG I can hear a lot of gun fire from my house and the toilet won't flush any more but can't see what's happening" - and go off and have a beer. Others clearly have a preconceived bias and construct their reports around that. I wonder how many of those who are "freelancers" and those who "just fly in to report the situation" have work permits and Non-Immigrant M visas based on correctly submitted information and make proper Thai tax filings on income earned from work performed in Thailand.

[bigbamboo]

Hypothetically at least it would be interesting to see what would happen if Thailand were to become separate entities with Thaksin's north and Suthep's south. Of course the south would have the advantage of Bangkok, big business, beaches and bargirls whilst the north would have the advantage of Thaksin, his magnificence and munificence and everyone would be rich in no time.

Aside from the bar lizards, which would you prefer?

Edited December 23, 2013 by bigbamboo

[Dumu Ali]

Cartalucci is a real world class reporter and now he has shot overnight to Michael Moore status with his deep analysis into the greatest ever coup of smiles story on planet earth - Cartalucci clears the smoke created by others so we can see clearer

[thailiketoo]

Cartalucci is a real world class reporter and now he has shot overnight to Michael Moore status with his deep analysis into the greatest ever coup of smiles story on planet earth - Cartalucci clears the smoke created by others so we can see clearer

The man you refer to has never been a journalist. He is a blogger. Michael Moore makes movies.

Unless you meant the smiley as satire and in that case I'm sorry.