Getting a second dog

[AyG]

My partner would dearly love to get a second dog. (Our first one, Whisky, a former street dog, is now coming up to three years old.) I have my reservations. I'm the one at home all day and have to let Whisky in and out a couple of dozen times a day. I'm also the one who usually walks him. How much more work is having two dogs, rather than one?

- Will the two dogs usually come in/go out together?

- How easy is it to walk two dogs at the same time?

- Will there be twice as much pestering for treats?

- Will they entertain each other, so requiring less attention from me?

A blogger I follow has suggested that getting a dog for your dog can be one of the best things you can do in life. Why? What are the pluses? At the moment I just see minuses.

Any thoughts or experiences shared will be much appreciated.

[wayned]

I have 10, I've had as many as 23. We walk twice a day, about 1 kilometer or more, once early in the morning and again in the afternoon after they eat, no leashes, but I live in farm country in the last house on a dirt road. Otherwise they have free run of the house and yard, no fence. They play and entertain each other most of the time but occasionally can become a PITA. I really can't remember only having 1. The pluses are that if you treat them right you will have friends for life, I don't see any minuses, but I'm truly a dog person.

If you do get one make sure it is young and it would be best if it was the opposite sex and have them neutered. Good luck!

[isanbirder]

I prefer to have two or three. They entertain each other, groom each other, and join together to chase off intruders (dogs, I mean).

In Thailand I have always had an open door, in Chiangmai into a yard, and in Buriram into our large garden. That deals with the problem of when they go out! But usually they are quite happy to go out together, and to walk together.

I hardly ever give treats; it encourages them to pester you.

If you get a new dog, either get a puppy (dogs are suckers for small animals!), or one of the opposite sex, suitably neutered unless you want the chore (and fun) of having puppies.

Yes, of course they can be a nuisance at times. Of the three I have now, the one which is the least nuisance is also the least fun.

[isanbirder]

I prefer to have two or three. They entertain each other, groom each other, and join together to chase off intruders (dogs, I mean).

In Thailand I have always had an open door, in Chiangmai into a yard, and in Buriram into our large garden. That deals with the problem of when they go out! But usually they are quite happy to go out together, and to walk together.

I hardly ever give treats; it encourages them to pester you.

If you get a new dog, either get a puppy (dogs are suckers for small animals!), or one of the opposite sex, suitably neutered unless you want the chore (and fun) of having puppies.

Yes, of course they can be a nuisance at times. Of the three I have now, the one which is the least nuisance is also the least fun.

[umbanda]

I am a dog person, a truly animal lover. I live in a small house with a small garden, if not I will have a zoo.

About dogs, the most important for me is to get them trained by myself, at least in basic good behavior. Some dogs, specially street dogs are OK in not share the house interiors with its owners, other likes and need to be around the owners all the time. Dogs are "territorial", are defensive and jealous about its space, and privileges. In a group of dogs always is the one in command, the alpha dogs, and any other cannot contest that position. Two males sharing the same "territory" may bring problems. Some times 2 females too. A male and a female is a peaceful combination. It is easy to test the "relationship". Even a calm dog, but alpha, will fight the intruder right away...or just show who is the boss. The new dog will show respect lying belly up and not responding...if not...you got a problem not so easy to resolve. Neutered dogs sometimes do not show that natural behavior.

If your actual dog is happy living outside, be sure that the new one will be too.

About your questions....

No problem walking them together. If they are not trained, pushing hard, and that is a problem, try a shocking metal leash.

Less time for you to play with them. Dogs loves to play and "fight" together, but better to do it outside and with room to run.

Here in Thailand, I am delighted having 2 street dogs with me..A male and a female. Very smart, obedient, playful and very wild sometimes...I learned a lot about street dogs having them around...

[PMK]

Even if they play with each other, that might cut the 'pestering' time in two but then you have to double that for two, so there's no gain there. That word is very telling - "pester". If that is really what you are feeling with one, don't get the second. No way two is easier to raise than one.

[isanbirder]

Even if they play with each other, that might cut the 'pestering' time in two but then you have to double that for two, so there's no gain there. That word is very telling - "pester". If that is really what you are feeling with one, don't get the second. No way two is easier to raise than one.

I think, PMK, you can hardly criticise posters on TV for choice of words. The first word which comes to hand may not be the best, but that's the one which goes into most posts.

[Cuban]

You mention your first dog was a Soi-Dog so will know about pack structure and pecking order. If you introduce a new dog vs a new puppy you would be wise if you consider exactly the process of introduction of the two dogs. I think I've written a long post on this subject before, so searching will help.

In brief, the dogs must be introduced to each other on ground that is not "owned" by either, neither dog should be stressed nor needing a walk at the time (ie bladder/bowels empted) - high value treats grilled bacon/roast chicken pieces be in good supply so that the encounter has a positive associations.

Your home will smell of the incumbent dog and so be "home ground", the new dog will need to be submissive to the incumbent top dog although being the new dog you/wife may seek to reassure the dog by giving it lots of attention, this would be a mistake. You should first give attention and praise to your first dog. This establishes and maintains the pack order, likewise at feeding time the first dog should be given food first and when head in the bowl then the second dog can start eating. Again this trains the second dog their place in the pack and so avoids creating any doubt which will result in the dogs sorting it out street-style and that will cause angst and vet bills for the resulting fights and long lasting tension in their relationship.

[PMK]

Even if they play with each other, that might cut the 'pestering' time in two but then you have to double that for two, so there's no gain there. That word is very telling - "pester". If that is really what you are feeling with one, don't get the second. No way two is easier to raise than one.

I think, PMK, you can hardly criticise posters on TV for choice of words. The first word which comes to hand may not be the best, but that's the one which goes into most posts.

You're the one that is criticizing, not me.

[holeyman1]

your soi dog will only be open to another dog/puppy IF its has been properly socialized else all hell will break loose! Soi dog will want to be the dominant one & fights will replace smiles

[AyG]

Fortunately, Whisky isn't the aggressive/dominant type. My partner specifically picked him from the litter because he wasn't forward. Now when I walk him he lowers his head in the presence of other dogs nearby and never barks at them.

One of the problems I have (and this relates to the "pestering") is that my partner is typically Thai and isn't interested in having a well-trained dog - he's more of a plaything. That means, for example, Whisky is used to getting a treat after breakfast and will bother me in the morning until he gets one if my partner is at work. (It starts with just sitting beside me. Then he'll put his head on my lap. Next comes the pawing followed by licking. And then the pathetic whimpering.) He'll "sit", "come" and "home" - but not reliably. Certainly couldn't let him off the leash outside the home. I have no illusions that things will be any different with a second dog.

I'll freely admit I'm not a "dog person" - never had one as a child and never wanted one. Brought up to believe that they are dirty and unhygienic. It took a lot of soul-searching to agree to get a dog. And it's a decision I haven't regretted for a moment. (Well, possibly apart from the time I came down in the morning to find large areas of wallpaper stripped from the wall.) I really love Whisky. And at the moment I'm trying hard to convince myself that I can handle another dog. My heart says "yes", but my head says "no". It's a struggle.

[Suradit69]

I have 10, I've had as many as 23. We walk twice a day, about 1 kilometer or more, once early in the morning and again in the afternoon after they eat, no leashes, but I live in farm country in the last house on a dirt road. Otherwise they have free run of the house and yard, no fence. They play and entertain each other most of the time but occasionally can become a PITA. I really can't remember only having 1. The pluses are that if you treat them right you will have friends for life, I don't see any minuses, but I'm truly a dog person.

If you do get one make sure it is young and it would be best if it was the opposite sex and have them neutered. Good luck!

And introduce the new dog to the old dog at a neutral venue not your home, to which your current dog has a territorial claim. Also please consider a dog in a rescue center.

[AyG]

Also please consider a dog in a rescue center.

No need to worry. I'd never get a dog from a breeder or similar. Whisky was from the streets, and any future dog I have will be the same.

[Costas2008]

Now I have seen everything...............TVF the Hub of dog experts also!

[mikebell]

Our Moo Baan is about to vote on whether we should limit a household to one dog. There are 62 houses of which maybe 8 have at least one dog. They create untold misery for those unfortunate enough to desire peace in their retirement. One neurotic dog can set off the rest into a frenzied and hysterical bout of barking at all hours of the day and night. One soi has at least 8; a house for sale took years to go as prospective buyers ran the gauntlet of noise before choosing another soi/estate. It probably went to another deaf 'n daft dog owner.

Before we get the argument about protecting the household from intruders, we have 24 hour security & no break-ins for years.

[Alwyn]

good grief....

[bangarang]

Sorry wrong thread, I read "Second Wife" lol

[PMK]

Fortunately, Whisky isn't the aggressive/dominant type. My partner specifically picked him from the litter because he wasn't forward. Now when I walk him he lowers his head in the presence of other dogs nearby and never barks at them.

One of the problems I have (and this relates to the "pestering") is that my partner is typically Thai and isn't interested in having a well-trained dog - he's more of a plaything. That means, for example, Whisky is used to getting a treat after breakfast and will bother me in the morning until he gets one if my partner is at work. (It starts with just sitting beside me. Then he'll put his head on my lap. Next comes the pawing followed by licking. And then the pathetic whimpering.) He'll "sit", "come" and "home" - but not reliably. Certainly couldn't let him off the leash outside the home. I have no illusions that things will be any different with a second dog.

I'll freely admit I'm not a "dog person" - never had one as a child and never wanted one. Brought up to believe that they are dirty and unhygienic. It took a lot of soul-searching to agree to get a dog. And it's a decision I haven't regretted for a moment. (Well, possibly apart from the time I came down in the morning to find large areas of wallpaper stripped from the wall.) I really love Whisky. And at the moment I'm trying hard to convince myself that I can handle another dog. My heart says "yes", but my head says "no". It's a struggle.

Maybe you could simply delay the decision for 6 months?If it's of any help, I am a dog person and even so, the couple of times I let my heart rule my head and took in another dog against my better judgement, I regretted it. Probably so did the dog!

BTW, I wouldn't call the behavior you described as not well trained. In fact, your partner has trained him to wait for a treat after breakfast, in other words at a specific time and place every day, which is fine. Having been trained that it will be forthcoming, of course he will remind you of it if it is not. My dogs know they get a treat (carrots) before their afternoon walk. If I don't have any it's major trauma time! But if I have carrots with supper, they will not bother me (well, they might make a half-hearted attempt). They've been trained that they never, ever, get scraps when I am cooking or eating.

[sunshine51]

AyG...

I agree with Wayned, Isanbirder, Suradit...heck almost everybody save for the person who thought the post was about a

2nd wife.

One of the main benefits a second dog will bring is that your first dog will have some canine company and to a dog that

means a hell of a lot. The missus & I have 4 at the moment...3 rescues & one Thai Ridgeback who was given to us by

a friend who was leaving LOS. Sure...there were some squabbles when each one was initially introduced but that faded

fast and now our "pack" totals 6...4 great mutts & 2 humans of dubious ideologies....but the mutts don't care about the

ideological stuff as long as there's good human-pooch interaction....and in our home in Ranong their's heaps of that.

Go on...get another...it will be good for all of you. Happy Holidays.

Edited December 28, 2013 by sunshine51

[umbanda]

Just to complete my advise, talking about alpha dogs and training.....

The first most important than anything having a dog, alpha or not, big or small, and of any breed...is that the owner or owners become the leader, the BIG alpha.. If dogs see you in that way, and you get that kind of respect, you can get good behavior and obedience even from the wildest street dog....and unconditional love. If you need to have your dog chained inside your house...you do not need a dog, and the your dog do not need you.

The second most important, is routine and discipline. Scheduling all the meal (one a day) and activities, at your convenience, in the way you can follow without changes. Dogs will adapt very fast and will know the schedule even better than you.....but also can get confused with continuous changes. Your schedule cannot be very flexible.

To have a well trained and loving dog is an amazing experience. A wonderful relationship, sometimes not easy to understand by people without a dog. I never owned wild street dogs before. Learned a lot. My Thai dogs spend a lot of time on the streets playing with other street dogs. Fighting with other dogs is also OK. They need their own "space" too....but...they have a curfew. After 6PM I close the gate, and they know that. Believe it.

My dogs are very friendly, my neighbors loves them and they trust them with their children, but.... when they are inside the house with the gate close, any intruder will be welcome in. That is something typical in Thai dogs, and very convenient....not need for alarm system.

.

[sweatalot]

We got two dogs at the same time as 6 resp. 8 weeks old puppies. Both bitches. The smaller one is the alfa and

suppresses her fellow dog. Now they are about 14 months. Sometimes they fight fiercely. Fortunately no serious injuries by now.

I have been told this would not have happened if they were of different sex.

Hope this is not too much off topic.

Finding the dog experts commenting here I wouild be happy if they could also have a look at my new threat "getting a third dog"

[lifeincnx]

Our 4-month-old stray female joined (imposed) our 5-rear old Thai street dog, also a female, just a year ago. It was a little rough going at first until the older alpha female firmly established the pack pecking order. We had to very be aware the first few months to block any potential escalating fights but now both are happy, with the surreptitious growl now and then, and really enjoy the others company. That said, our two California rescue cats made sure all rules were strictly adhered to. At all times. No questions.

Now, we're one big happy (mini-zoo) family and we wouldn't want it any other way.

Good reading through this string I must say with some excellent "dog whisperer" advice (thanks umbanda!).

Edited December 28, 2013 by lifeincnx

[wayned]

IMHO the OP's in the right forum. The posts that "advocate driving their car at street dogs to keep the numbers down" should be moved to the Health, Body and Medicine forum since it's obvious that they have an incurable mental disease! !

[cbluck58]

Potential thieves take note - I have 3 dogs , a young , but massive and still growing GSD, a Husky and a Soi Dog that seems to be some kind of terrier - the GSD is male , the other two female - they are easy and I have no problems with exercise , etc., as they play together all day long - just three times as much dog shit to clear up compared to having just one.

Whatever you end up with just be prepared to take proper care of it, or them , and not adopt Thai style of letting them out in the Street all day which is outrageously negligent and anti-social.

[cbluck58]

Just to complete my advise, talking about alpha dogs and training.....

The first most important than anything having a dog, alpha or not, big or small, and of any breed...is that the owner or owners become the leader, the BIG alpha.. If dogs see you in that way, and you get that kind of respect, you can get good behavior and obedience even from the wildest street dog....and unconditional love. If you need to have your dog chained inside your house...you do not need a dog, and the your dog do not need you.

The second most important, is routine and discipline. Scheduling all the meal (one a day) and activities, at your convenience, in the way you can follow without changes. Dogs will adapt very fast and will know the schedule even better than you.....but also can get confused with continuous changes. Your schedule cannot be very flexible.

To have a well trained and loving dog is an amazing experience. A wonderful relationship, sometimes not easy to understand by people without a dog. I never owned wild street dogs before. Learned a lot. My Thai dogs spend a lot of time on the streets playing with other street dogs. Fighting with other dogs is also OK. They need their own "space" too....but...they have a curfew. After 6PM I close the gate, and they know that. Believe it.

My dogs are very friendly, my neighbors loves them and they trust them with their children, but.... when they are inside the house with the gate close, any intruder will be welcome in. That is something typical in Thai dogs, and very convenient....not need for alarm system.

.

Your dogs spend a lot of time on the streets --- with dogs whose health status is unknown to you, whose vaccination status is unknown to you, crapping and pissing on other people's property - you are an irresponsible dog owner to say the least and as such should not be offering advice at all.

[robertson468]

Variously, I have had four or three dogs (see Avatar for big idle teenager) at a time. Sadly two got poisoned, despite them being on a lead when out for a walk. As said, the dogs know that I am alpha in the house and other humans in the house are senior to them. We established this mainly through the feeding routine, with different members feeding them, but making them wait for their meal until the human gives them the go ahead - boy do they love food!!! We also walk them four times a day, plus the labrador (who is a particularly energetic lad and a female terrier) go for a run with "Daddy" six times per week. This is great for their health, as a bonding mechanism and tires them out so that they are much less inclined to fight - in fact I have only seen two of them show their teeth to another one, once in a blue moon. On the other hand, they love to play together, but I do watch that it doesn't get too out of hand. 62 Kilos versus 15 Kilos is a little bit of a disadvantage. We have thoroughly enjoyed the companionship and fun they have given us, sure we have to devote a certain amount of time to them, or make arrangements for them if we are going to be out at say walking time or feeding time. The only real downside for us is when two of them got poisoned and that really was quite heartbreaking to loose an otherwise healthy loving companion. Oh, the way we introduced them was by first walking the dogs to take a little bit of "fire" out of them, then introduced them on open, neutral ground and took them for a long walk - seemed to work for my Guys and had no fights.