Smoke, Smog, Dust 2014 Chiang Mai

[jonwilly]

I am assured by my Thai source that the cold weather will start mid october.

john

[MESmith]

what would be the situation with smoke/smog/dust around the Chiang Dao region..

I'm also interested in Chiang Rai/Pai/Mae Hong Son situation if anyone can report from this year/last year/usual.. I'm about to go that way and would hate the fun to be ruined by all this smoke (never seen it yet, always lived south)

If you're about to go that way now, your main concern is keeping dry

[wisemonkey]

How bad does it actually get? Are we talking like equal to bkk pollution or worse during the smokey months? Seems to be the only real con of choosing chiang mai to live in!

[T_Dog]

How bad does it actually get? Are we talking like equal to bkk pollution or worse during the smokey months? Seems to be the only real con of choosing chiang mai to live in!

It gets pretty bad, but fortunately it only lasts a few weeks. Visibilities as low as 300 meters can happen for a few days. If you want historical data on the PM 10 levels, you can look at the Thai Pollution sites referred to earlier in this thread.

[Awk]

Looks like they have put up a large electric billboard on the North-East corner of the moat, showing pollution-related data (PM10 and others). Not sure where they get the data. It was showing 31 for PM10 as I passed by this morning, which does not seem to match "http://aqmthai.com/".

[dhream]

It's so cheap up here, even relative to supposedly cheap Cambodia (see the numbeo site if you don't believe this claim) that anyone who is more than just scraping by could probably flee to the coast (not a tourist trap, the remaining unspoiled Thai coast) for the two bad air months in CNX. What a lovely break worth trying eitherway!

[Mapguy]

Looks like they have put up a large electric billboard on the North-East corner of the moat, showing pollution-related data (PM10 and others). Not sure where they get the data. It was showing 31 for PM10 as I passed by this morning, which does not seem to match "http://aqmthai.com/".

There have been similar electronic boards on the West end Narrawat Bridge for ages. Maybe the same data as the one you have observed, maybe not. I've been too damn busy watching traffic to make direct comparisons with the official monitoring sites (which usually differ somewhat, anyway) due to their locations.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Mapguy

[MESmith]

It's so cheap up here, even relative to supposedly cheap Cambodia (see the numbeo site if you don't believe this claim) that anyone who is more than just scraping by could probably flee to the coast (not a tourist trap, the remaining unspoiled Thai coast) for the two bad air months in CNX. What a lovely break worth trying eitherway!

[puukao]

Surprised to hear about bad pollution this time of year. Anomaly I hope. I do know it was (and might still be) bad in China recently. Not uncommon for the winds to bring the pollution down to CM. thoughts on recent pollution?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

^^ I think the artificial rain program is to produce water for farmers.

The air quality is a little hazy but not so bad measurements unless I am missing something.

http://www.aqmthai.com/public_report.php

[Trujillo]

This is for China specifically, but does include Thailand....and by the looks of it, you don't want to be anywhere in China....

Real-time air pollution index:

http://aqicn.org/map/thailand/

[MESmith]

This is for China specifically, but does include Thailand....and by the looks of it, you don't want to be anywhere in China....

Real-time air pollution index:

http://aqicn.org/map/thailand/

Burn a few tyres at Thapae Gate for this weekend's "Chinese Festival"?

[Duck Duck]

Isn't it a little bit early for all this smoke/smog? Hope we get some rain to knock it out of the air soon.

[Andyfarquar]

Maybe I'm in a different Chang Mai..... The air is cleaner here than any inland place I've been to in years. The farms only burn their stubble in April so what's all the fuss about?

[MESmith]

Maybe I'm in a different Chang Mai..... The air is cleaner here than any inland place I've been to in years. The farms only burn their stubble in April so what's all the fuss about?

Only burn in April? You're a real comedian

[blueyeshk]

As he said he is in a different Chiang Mai maybe it's another dimension- we who are here in our reality will burn in smoke from feb-May but most of us got travel plans already

[jonwilly]

I am planning my trip to the coast for March, whole month.

john

[Mapguy]

The annual season of agricultural burning will commence soon. The commonly-understood heavy period is nominally mid-February through mid April when the first seasonal rains begin to clean the air. However, the burning does commence in December. Think not? Check out the valley from the Doi Ithanon summit towards the end of December and in early January.

If they search TV Chiang Mai, those new to this seasonal problem can find a great amount of factual information about particulate pollution in this area, in particular PM<2.5 pollution which is damaging to everyone regardless of whether or not it happens to "bother them." Air pollution does, of course, does bother quite a few people. It leads to a significant rise in respiratory illness in this area while it also enters the bloodstream to cause long-range damage to everyone.

The Internet is replete with information. You won't like what you learn. Here is some new information:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/266912721_Improving_Air_Quality_in_Asian_Developing_Countries_Compilation_of_Research_Findings

[scotbeve]

N 95 masks are still light weight and pretty effective - most First Drugs stores have them.

[Mapguy]

This is a continuation of of one of the offshoot threads below: "Martial..." below which crop up all the time, or something like that.

The basic complaint: air pollution due to agricultural burning and other sources) in Chiang Mai (and in Northern Thailand generally). This speaks to agricultural burning, which is a huge problem.

Many farmers are small holders or tenants where the agricultural alternative of "turning the soil" is not economically feasible, nevermind "tradition." What is economically feasible becomes "tradition." If you count the economic costs of changing common farm practice, the impact upon small holdings would be much larger than for large holdings, to give one example: in machinery costs. People who complain here about agricultural burning (and I am one) have to keep such things in mind.

There are solutions, but these are generally only found (for rice production) in much more developed agricultural economies, such as Japan. Even then, many solutions are only partial solutions subject to negotiation, such as in California, USA. So, this is not a "TIT" problem. It has been and continues to be a problem that bedevils agriculture policy everywhere. (Your neighbor burning trash after dark is another matter. Don't try to solve that with a garden hose over your fence!)

There is no suggestion here to say "Live with it." But there are some complicated problems to solve, especially for small farmers who are clobbered by macroeconomic international commodity pricing problems. In the meantime, I agree with poster "Thailand." Sock it to the big boys !!!!

No comment here, obviously on forrest burning, which is another (also complicated) issue.

In the meantime, those who say air pollution doesn't really bother them are whistling in the dark. So, from time to time, I will try to post some useful links to information.

For those air pollution does immediately bother, you should NOT live here from January - April; maybe not settle here. Chiang Mai is absolutely not a haven for good respiratory and cardiovascular health, nor is anywhere in the northewestern provinces of Thailand becuse of the very serious air pollution problem which, mostcertainly, is not going to be solved soon.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

N 95 masks are still light weight and pretty effective - most First Drugs stores have them.

N95 masks ?! For those considering Chiang Mai as their heaven on retirement earth, consider what is said here. Gas masks ?! Yes, that is what they basically are. The particles people need to avoid are not gases but are extraordinarily small --- able to enter the blood stream!

Edited November 25, 2014 by Mapguy

[scotbeve]

N 95 masks are still light weight and pretty effective - most First Drugs stores have them.

N95 masks ?! For those considering Chiang Mai as their heaven on retirement earth, consider what is said here. Gas masks ?! Yes, that is what they basically are. The particles people need to avoid are not gases but are extraordinarily small --- able to enter the blood stream!

N95 masks are not gas masks.

[Mapguy]

Really, scotbreve ? Sure, I agree, not gas masks. You give no poetic license! Or thought as to why the distinction really isn't terribly significant in context here.

Shall we say "microparticle masks?" I know my chemistry, but I think you missed my point.

How about a generic term: masks that keep you from getting sick, sometimes very sick today and, more probably, later down the road when you can't even remember what it possibly was you breathed that has made you ill. Smoking cigarettes and secondary smoke might be considered one of those. Asbestos fibers? How about Agent Orange? There are many more.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

Some people have reported in one place or other that burning has started. There is some burning that goes on throughout the year, such as some maintenance of longan fruit orchards, but the rice straw burning is the seasonal agricultural burning and forrest fires that pose the big seasonal threat to health. That's what this post is about.

The intense seasonal burning is generally between dry mid-February- mid-April first rains. During this period there are also forest fires clearing land and from other causes. The agricultural burning unfortunately does begin earlier than that, certainly back into December, as you can witness visually, for example, from the peak of Doi Inthanon, although areal air pollution is not as extreme as it later gets.

Well, FIRMS ( https://earthdata.nasa.gov/data/near-real-time-data/firms ) has reported a fire in the Doi Suthep - Pui area on 8 December, the first such early report in memory. It is also notable because FIRMS satellite coverage doesn't capture all agricultural burning. Is this an indication of more early agricultural burning?

The blaze was in an area just South of Rte 1095 (the Pai Road) and West of Rte 107 north of Mae Rim in the San Pa Yang and Ban Nong Kai area. The broader area, just south of Mae Taeng, includes Saluang, Khilek, and Mae Faek (on the East side of Rte 107). Satellite plots over the past two years have revealed this area is notorious for agricultural burning. Looks like they are getting an earlier start.

If you are interested in plotting fires, go to FIRMS: https://earthdata.nasa.gov/data/near-real-time-data/firms

Edited December 10, 2014 by Mapguy

[chiang mai]

I've moved to just outside CM and I can confirm the burning has been taking place for the past three weeks, some of it on a spectacular scale and far too close to my living room for comfort! But it's limited in duration, a couple of hours at max and now most of the paddies have been flooded again in time for planting.

[MESmith]

I've moved to just outside CM and I can confirm the burning has been taking place for the past three weeks, some of it on a spectacular scale and far too close to my living room for comfort! But it's limited in duration, a couple of hours at max and now most of the paddies have been flooded again in time for planting.

Unfortunately, it can be a couple of hours everyday for a few months, as each farmer takes turns to burn off his field/orchard/garden waste....

Not forgetting neighbours who cannot live through the day without setting fire to green garden waste or their household (plastic) waste...

[scotbeve]

Really, scotbreve ? Sure, I agree, not gas masks. You give no poetic license! Or thought as to why the distinction really isn't terribly significant in context here.

Shall we say "microparticle masks?" I know my chemistry, but I think you missed my point.

How about a generic term: masks that keep you from getting sick, sometimes very sick today and, more probably, later down the road when you can't even remember what it possibly was you breathed that has made you ill. Smoking cigarettes and secondary smoke might be considered one of those. Asbestos fibers? How about Agent Orange? There are many more.

Mapguy,

Pardon the one-liner.... yes, microparticle masks can and will help to a certain extent. We can all refer to the old chesnut when it comes to particulates, as you, and many others in the past have... "10 microns.... well.... what about the more damaging particulates of the 2.5 micron size ( or smaller )"? The decent room filters cost a fortune (I know, I own 5 of them). I digress yet again, our annual health worries should "most likely" increase with the military at the helm... Every year, anybody can see the military bases west of Rt. 107 burn away merrily... Reporting it on the "hot lines" has achieved zero, diddly-squat. Been whinging about this to locals for 30 years.... sigh.

[Mapguy]

Keep pushing for better days!

[MESmith]

This morning was the first bad air day of the dry season. Drove from superhighway east on 1317, past San Kamphaeng & Mae On. Very poor visibility & smell of smoke. Out at Mae On there were several large smoke plumes. I'm not talking about local fires, but widespread smog. Out past the hotsprings where the road climbs up, the air was significantly cleaner.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Anyone want a free 3M Darth Vader mask? Scare your neighbors, frighten small children.

It's maybe 650 baht version that uses single replaceable insert. It's in great shape.

Where I am moving too definitely will not need it.

First one who wants it that I don't think its a TV dipshit then I will leave it at

Hillside 4 Condo reception (Huay Kaew Road)

Huay Kaew Road which is near Maya Mall

PM me