Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[David48]

Chocolate ... what's your stance on Chocolate?

It's not the chocolate, it's the sugar and butterfat.

But what is chocolate? Take out the sugar and butterfat and you are left with a bar Coco.

I wouldn't have a Bar of that ...

There is an answer to this. Try very high cocao content chocolate that is low in fat and sugar and have a VERY SMALL portion daily. That is known to be healthful AND delicious. Cheers.

So you are saying ... a Tax on Junk Food ... but not Chocolate.

Seems like some corruption^* there.

^*corruption of the ideal.

[transam]

I am also for finding ways of nudging producers to offer and promote healthier products! And not only for elites. Duh. It isn't easy. Private companies do whatever they like, with profit being the only motive. How to make them better? Ask politely? I think not.

Are you saying other food providers, Thai or other, are not working for profit ?

That's a weird question.

I am saying private firms need government REGULATION to be FORCED to act more in public's interest. Otherwise, they just won't. With some exceptions. In cases where acting in the best public interest is exactly the same action that maximizes profits, THEN they will behave that way. How common is that?

Nooooooooooooooooo, you have been saying TAX everyone..................

[Jingthing]

Actually, I am thinking more a tax on SUGAR as a substance is better. I think fake corn syrup needs to be included as well as artificial sweeteners as both been linked with obesity.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Nooooooooooooooooo, you have been saying TAX everyone..................

Please stop exaggerating.

[David48]

I do know in countries like the USA that heavily tax CIGARETTES ...

Huh ... a tax on cigarettes ...

I thought that we were discussing Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

Please stay on topic ...

You're joking right?

No, not joking.

Just a warm request not to muddy the waters with off topic references and keep a clear focus on the OP which is (just incase you have forgotten) ... Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

.

[Jingthing]

Since we are off topic with ciggies, I bet not many knew Canada taxes air conditioners in cars - the place that was -41 last week how's that for a tax.

Back on topic, how much tax would it be ? 5% 10% 100% how much would it take to persuade people to change their lifestyle ?

I don't know. Whatever is shown to be effective. The rates can be changed. Other countries can be looked at, rates to results. The point is to get started. What's the point of being so ANAL about such petty details anyway? It feels like some people are saying this is too complicated a problem to even bother taking a stab at it. Lots of things worth doing are complicated.

[Jingthing]

No, not joking.

Just a warm request not to muddy the waters with off topic references and keep a clear focus on the OP which is (just incase you have forgotten) ... Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

.

As the OP, I've already expanded the scope of this topic beyond TAXES multiple times. If you can't accept, nobody is making you participate in this thread. I feel you are here mostly for silly game playing anyway. Like it's a chess game for you rather than any focus on the SUBSTANCE of a topic. I don't think that is at all interesting.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

 

They should tax not riding bicycles. Everyone should be forced to ride a bike 10 km to and from work, and if they live closer to work than that, they can be repatriated out to the countryside, as part of their re-education.

SC

May I request a Songkran exemption?

Riding the bike then may have reduced health benefits?

Is my point reasonable?

No; people would not be allowed to sacrifice their health for safety reasons. There would be no exclusions. Everyone. Every day. Remember, health is the state's business, not yours.

 

[Morakot]

Lets not skip corners here. No point about talking about taxation yet. I think the premise itself has not been thoroughly discussed yet.

• How do we know that Thai people are getting "fatter"?
• What is the rate of increase and what will be the effect of such an increase on the overall population health?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Morakot

[David48]

Actually, I am thinking more a tax on SUGAR as a substance is better. I think fake corn syrup needs to be included as well as artificial sweeteners as both been linked with obesity.

Are there any Food Scientists following this debate?

What is 'fake corn syrup' ?

Is this some sort of Alchemy trick?

Maybe they could use this to avoid the proposed Sugar Tax?

[StreetCowboy]

 

I've already said the jury is out on taxing harmful foods.

But if it does work for tobacco AND IT DOES, why wouldn't it work for food subtances?

A strong argument was made here for taxing entire substances, particularly SUGAR as being potentially much more effective than taxing the products containing the substances. That makes sense to me; otherwise people will just substitute.

I do know in countries like the USA that heavily tax CIGARETTES and have for decades, that the rates of smoking and lung cancer have gone DOWN dramatically. Duh!

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/tobacco-control-advocacy/states-communities/tobacco-tax.html

Tobacco Tax

Increasing Cigarette and Tobacco Product Taxes

The American Lung Association strongly supports efforts in states and local communities to increase taxes on cigarettes and tobacco products. Increased cigarette taxes are a proven way to reduce smoking especially among youth. Every 10 percent increase in the price of cigarettes reduces consumption by about 4 percent among adults and about 7 percent among youth.1

You see, these right wing anti-taxation true believers don't really care about the public health. They only care in promoting propaganda about their radical small government agenda. The public health, for the rich and especially the poor, doesn't rate.

 

So you reckon it's the tax that has led to a lower uptake of smoking, rather than education? I suppose that would be obvious, since so few poor people smoke compared to middle class and wealthy.

[Jingthing]

Links already supplied about rates and rates of increase. Don't ask others to do the fetching work for you.

Nobody can possibly predict the future based on current data! You can see trends only. The clear trend is fatter faster.

[Thai at Heart]

I do know in countries like the USA that heavily tax CIGARETTES ...

Huh ... a tax on cigarettes ...

I thought that we were discussing Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

Please stay on topic ...

You're joking right? Again, it is still too early to know in history about the effectiveness of taxing FOOD substances for public health outcomes. But as tobacco history is much longer, we DO KNOW for a fact that there are good results possible with taxing another harmful substance. I don't accept your game that my point wasn't on topic. You act like there is proof that taxing food substances is proven to never work. NOPE. It is not proven yet to work or to not work. Time will tell. The tobacco thing gives a good clue as there are similarities.

And guess what, the poor cannot but the well off can.................

Your theory should be aimed at the providers to create the same stuff but with ''good'' ingredient's, NOT, tax the poor out and leave the well off in, eh..

TAX is to deprive the poor of the community, and not the well off. GET IT...

But that belies the fact that smoking is today, skewed towards the lower economic classes.

It is a strange effect, but the economics of taxing cigarettes is not as simple as saying its a tax on the poor. At the end of the day, people are smoking less and the total amount of smokers is falling in the developed world.

[Morakot]

A tax on a trend? Hmm that might be a winner.

[Jingthing]

Actually, I am thinking more a tax on SUGAR as a substance is better. I think fake corn syrup needs to be included as well as artificial sweeteners as both been linked with obesity.

Are there any Food Scientists following this debate?

What is 'fake corn syrup' ?

Is this some sort of Alchemy trick?

Maybe they could use this to avoid the proposed Sugar Tax?

Sorry, you're on your game playing again. Focusing on human error trivial small points that have nothing to do with the bigger substance of an issue. I was obviously talking about Corn Syrup created sugars. They are sugars. Not fake. Corrected. Sorry it has to come to this, but I think further responding to these kinds of irrelevant GOTCHAS are a complete waste of my time. (IGNORE)

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

But that belies the fact that smoking is today, skewed towards the lower economic classes.

It is a strange effect, but the economics of taxing cigarettes is not as simple as saying its a tax on the poor. At the end of the day, people are smoking less and the total amount of smokers is falling in the developed world.

Yes when poor people are addicted to ciggies, in high ciggie tax countries, that is a very regressive tax for them. I'm not saying that's good. But overall raising the ciggie taxes does directly lower overall ciggie usage, on all classes. So it's a tradeoff.

[David48]

Lets not skip corners here. No point about talking about taxation yet. I think the premise itself has not been thoroughly discussed yet.

• How do we know that Thai people are getting "fatter"?
• What is the rate of increase and what will be the effect of such an increase on the overall population health?

Well, that is a bone of contention.

My causal observations suggest not. some say otherwise.

But, I'm fairly sure, not direct statistics have been produced for Thailand that has confirmed your superstition.

Statistics for SE-Asia, yes, but not yet for Thailand.

[Morakot]

Don't ask others to do the fetching work for you.

JT why are you so worked up?

Participating interlocutors might actually be interested in the discussion, but lately you sound as if your taking part in some kind of contest.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Morakot

[David48]

Actually, I am thinking more a tax on SUGAR as a substance is better. I think fake corn syrup needs to be included as well as artificial sweeteners as both been linked with obesity.

Are there any Food Scientists following this debate?

What is 'fake corn syrup' ?

Is this some sort of Alchemy trick?

Maybe they could use this to avoid the proposed Sugar Tax?

I was obviously talking about Corn Syrup created sugars. They are sugars. Not fake. Corrected.

So, you are saying that we can't rely factually on what you say now?

.

[Morakot]

Lets not skip corners here. No point about talking about taxation yet. I think the premise itself has not been thoroughly discussed yet.

• How do we know that Thai people are getting "fatter"?
• What is the rate of increase and what will be the effect of such an increase on the overall population health?

Well, that is a bone of contention.

My causal observations suggest not. some say otherwise.

But, I'm fairly sure, not direct statistics have been produced for Thailand that has confirmed your superstition.

Statistics for SE-Asia, yes, but not yet for Thailand.

I see what you mean David. I ask myself even if there might really be an increase, do we actually know if such an increase would have adverse effects on the overall population health?

[Jingthing]

...

I ask myself even if there might really be an increase, do we actually know if such an increase would have adverse effects on the overall population health?

Yes, health scientists KNOW that an increase in obesity always means an increase in serious obesity related diseases. There is NO question about that. None at all. There is some question about the level of health problems associated with mere overweight (short of obesity) and also keep in mind normal weight and thin people get heart attacks too! Also some people labeled as obese based on rough BMI are actually not obese because of muscle content. BMI really is much better for more average bodied modern people. Muscles weigh a lot.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Lets not skip corners here. No point about talking about taxation yet. I think the premise itself has not been thoroughly discussed yet.

• How do we know that Thai people are getting "fatter"?
• What is the rate of increase and what will be the effect of such an increase on the overall population health?

Well, that is a bone of contention.

My causal observations suggest not. some say otherwise.

But, I'm fairly sure, not direct statistics have been produced for Thailand that has confirmed your superstition.

Statistics for SE-Asia, yes, but not yet for Thailand.

I see what you mean David. I ask myself even if there might really be an increase, do we actually know if such an increase would have adverse effects on the overall population health?

Since I have been in LOS I have been to loads of funerals of youngish folk, never touched a BigMac, but pasted away with gastro probs. JT should look a bit further than the big companies.

[oogster8]

how about taxing people who start iddiot threads.................lol. Let people be.....if they want be stoopit ..let them.

as much oil and re-used oil is used all thai food can be considered JUNK.................lol.

Edited January 10, 2014 by oogster8

[David48]

Lets not skip corners here. No point about talking about taxation yet. I think the premise itself has not been thoroughly discussed yet.

• How do we know that Thai people are getting "fatter"?
• What is the rate of increase and what will be the effect of such an increase on the overall population health?

Well, that is a bone of contention.

My causal observations suggest not. some say otherwise.

But, I'm fairly sure, not direct statistics have been produced for Thailand that has confirmed your superstition.

Statistics for SE-Asia, yes, but not yet for Thailand.

I see what you mean David. I ask myself even if there might really be an increase, do we actually know if such an increase would have adverse effects on the overall population health?

Have you seen any increase in Obesity?

Now, may I qualify that question ... I don't mean looking in the mirror!

Please, no navel gazing permitted here.

I mean in the Thai population.

[Jingthing]

Since I have been in LOS I have been to loads of funerals of youngish folk, never touched a BigMac, but pasted away with gastro probs. JT should look a bit further than the big companies.

Those sound like health issues not related to obesity. There are a lot of health issues to tackle in Thailand, not only obesity! Also again never suggested the obesity issue in Thailand was only about fast food chains, now did I?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Since I have been in LOS I have been to loads of funerals of youngish folk, never touched a BigMac, but pasted away with gastro probs. JT should look a bit further than the big companies.

Those sound like health issues not related to obesity. There are a lot of health issues to tackle in Thailand, not only obesity! Also again never suggested the obesity issue in Thailand was only about fast food chains, now did I?

Died from what they ate over a period, nooooooooooooooooo farang food................ ............... Get your ass in gear and look at the big picture. Please.

[Jingthing]

Died from what they ate over a period, nooooooooooooooooo farang food................ ............... Get your ass in gear and look at the big picture. Please.

Stop being so abusive in your comments, please.

What diseases did they have exactly?

Not all morbidity is related to obesity.

It's just that obesity is known to majorly increase some serious diseases, mostly cardiovascular and also cancer.

Not all morbidity related to food intake is related to obesity.

Sometimes very thin people have no fat reserves and can die of a basic case of diarrhea that would never kill a normal weight or fat person.

Are you talking about liver flukes from Isaan food here? A very serious problem indeed.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Died from what they ate over a period, nooooooooooooooooo farang food................ ............... Get your ass in gear and look at the big picture. Please.

Stop being so abusive in your comments, please.

What diseases did they have exactly?

Not all morbidity is related to obesity.

It's just that obesity is known to majorly increase some serious diseases, mostly cardiovascular and also cancer.

Not all morbidity related to food intake is related to obesity.

Sometimes very thin people have no fat reserves and can die of a basic case of diarrhea that would never kill a normal weight or fat person.

Are you talking about liver flukes from Isaan food here? A very serious problem indeed.

Youuuuuuuu have continually pointed a finger at farangland regarding your belief that Thai folk are meeting an early death because of farangland instead of looking at everything in posts from others. Grow up and have a good look at what Thai folk actually eat, in moderation it perhaps is OK but if the wallet allows......it is not OK, stop blaming farangs.............please.....

[soomak]

Lets not skip corners here. No point about talking about taxation yet. I think the premise itself has not been thoroughly discussed yet.

• How do we know that Thai people are getting "fatter"?
• What is the rate of increase and what will be the effect of such an increase on the overall population health?

Google "obesity in Thailand" and read the information, or otherwise maybe JingThing will do the research for us...

In any case, obesity is going up in TH, same as in any other country where the income has gone up and physical activity has gone done.

[Jingthing]

Youuuuuuuu have continually pointed a finger at farangland regarding your belief that Thai folk are meeting an early death because of farangland instead of looking at everything in posts from others. Grow up and have a good look at what Thai folk actually eat, in moderation it perhaps is OK but if the wallet allows......it is not OK, stop blaming farangs.............please.....

I have done no such thing. See the link I provided before about the three factors for globesity in countries at Thailand's economic stage. Thailand of course like all countries has it's own specific factors in its food culture past and present that are going to be peculiar to Thailand. As mentioned before, the traditional Thai food culture is pretty good health-wise. On the other hand the cultural enthusiasm for super sugary stuff is a big danger. And unlike Mexico, they don't have to worry about larded beans!

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jingthing