Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[NeverSure]

Is this thread still going on? Why do people move to Thailand and claim they have more freedom, and then set about making it just like the UK?

Tax, control, make lots of new laws...

I think you should let Thailand be Thailand and get your Western tax and control ideas the hell out of your brain.

[Jingthing]

Is this thread still going on? Why do people move to Thailand and claim they have more freedom, and then set about making it just like the UK?

Tax, control, make lots of new laws...

I think you should let Thailand be Thailand and get your Western tax and control ideas the hell out of your brain.

Thailand is not virgin tax territory, mate. Look at booze and ciggies.

[StreetCowboy]

Another good article about this subject I just came across in an online magazine I often read:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/poor_people_are_getting_plump_good/14477

And some erudite and informed comments, too.

The logic of that article is daft. It suggests globesity is a triumph over famine. It's not a competition. You don't want EITHER.

I think I prefer obesity

[sustento]

 

They should tax not riding bicycles. Everyone should be forced to ride a bike 10 km to and from work, and if they live closer to work than that, they can be repatriated out to the countryside, as part of their re-education.

Out in the country they'll be able to get brown rice, as well, as all the rice millers will be in jail for their part in the great rice subsidy counter-revolutionary scam.

SC

Brown rice with butter is lovely btw.

 

Butter? You are joking, aren't you? In the future, offering butter to youngsters will be viewed as pedophilia.

SC

Raymond Blanc says the only way to cook a pork chop is to fry it in butter

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Another good article about this subject I just came across in an online magazine I often read:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/poor_people_are_getting_plump_good/14477

And some erudite and informed comments, too.

The logic of that article is daft. It suggests globesity is a triumph over famine. It's not a competition. You don't want EITHER.

I think I prefer obesity

More than obesity, I think I prefer to know more about this usage of the word "daft".

Here we have daft modifying logic.

But I have always been more comfortable using it to describe people, not actions.

For example, I would think that someone is daft for eathing too much.

But I would be less likely to say eating behavior is daft.

Who reads spiked-online to gain insight into valid research in this field, anyway?

I can see JingThing's point here.

And, you can see in one of the comments following the article that these readers are very unsympathetic to viewpoints expressed in The Guardian.

I like the Guardian.

And so I wish that someone here could post some links from The Guardian which shed light on the subject at hand.

Thank you.

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe we should do an experiment. Let's take a willing volunteer who believes that taxing sugar is a good thing.

Every time he eats sweetened food, or a sugary soft drink, he can send a shilling to the Inland Revenue.

Let's weigh him now, and in a year's time, and see how much impact it has had, and how much it has cost him, and how irritating is it to keep track?

And let's take another willing volunteer, and force him to ride 20 km on a bike every weekend, and see who is happier about their regime at the end of the year.

Are you up for that, JT?

SC

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Maybe we should do an experiment. Let's take a willing volunteer who believes that taxing sugar is a good thing.

Every time he eats sweetened food, or a sugary soft drink, he can send a shilling to the Inland Revenue.

Let's weigh him now, and in a year's time, and see how much impact it has had, and how much it has cost him, and how irritating is it to keep track?

And let's take another willing volunteer, and force him to ride 20 km on a bike every weekend, and see who is happier about their regime at the end of the year.

Are you up for that, JT?

SC

I am not happy paying 5 Baht for a Jack&Jill bar.

I want to pay about 3 Baht.

And, I really doubt that forcing me to ride 20 km on a bike will have any positive effect.

20 km on a bike?

Could take a month of Sundays to get that far.

[cashpower]

i cant stand fat people but tax isnt the answer. these people should be shipped off to fat camps and forced to exercise until they lose the blubber

[MrGaoMungGawn]

i cant stand fat people but tax isnt the answer. these people should be shipped off to fat camps and forced to exercise until they lose the blubber

Now you sound like Randy Newman.

[mogandave]

Is this thread still going on? Why do people move to Thailand and claim they have more freedom, and then set about making it just like the UK?

Tax, control, make lots of new laws...

I think you should let Thailand be Thailand and get your Western tax and control ideas the hell out of your brain.

Thailand is not virgin tax territory, mate. Look at booze and ciggies.

Look at HFCS: Not used a lot in Thailand, yet used a lot in the US.

Why is it used a lot in the US but not in Thailand? Because of US government interference in the US sugar industry.

Why are taxes the be-all-end-all? If you don't like something and believe it's bad for people, grow a pair and take it off the market, don't price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich.

When people state they think the tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them all greedy and whatnot? Also, why do you consider people that that think the tax idea is silly and won't work close-minded, and that people that agree with you open-minded? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has little effect on usage, yet you continue to hold that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Call me greedy and close-minded, but I just don't believe it.

[Jingthing]

Another good article about this subject I just came across in an online magazine I often read:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/poor_people_are_getting_plump_good/14477

And some erudite and informed comments, too.

The logic of that article is daft. It suggests globesity is a triumph over famine. It's not a competition. You don't want EITHER.

I think I prefer obesity

It's not an either / or choice being presented. So preference is irrelevant.

[Jingthing]

Maybe we should do an experiment. Let's take a willing volunteer who believes that taxing sugar is a good thing.

Every time he eats sweetened food, or a sugary soft drink, he can send a shilling to the Inland Revenue.

Let's weigh him now, and in a year's time, and see how much impact it has had, and how much it has cost him, and how irritating is it to keep track?

And let's take another willing volunteer, and force him to ride 20 km on a bike every weekend, and see who is happier about their regime at the end of the year.

Are you up for that, JT?

SC

It's a silly idea but in my case, makes no difference, I religiously avoid sugar. It's hard to do in Thailand as it's in many things without asking. Also unlike taxation only an extremist totalitarian government could mandate exercise, and it should be more often than once a week anyway. Creating good environments for exercise such as making walking more respected in Thailand, play areas for children, etc. is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

[Jingthing]

Is this thread still going on? Why do people move to Thailand and claim they have more freedom, and then set about making it just like the UK?

Tax, control, make lots of new laws...

I think you should let Thailand be Thailand and get your Western tax and control ideas the hell out of your brain.

Thailand is not virgin tax territory, mate. Look at booze and ciggies.

Look at HFCS: Not used a lot in Thailand, yet used a lot in the US.

Why is it used a lot in the US but not in Thailand? Because of US government interference in the US sugar industry.

Why are taxes the be-all-end-all? If you don't like something and believe it's bad for people, grow a pair and take it off the market, don't price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich.

When people state they think the tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them all greedy and whatnot? Also, why do you consider people that that think the tax idea is silly and won't work close-minded, and that people that agree with you open-minded? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has little effect on usage, yet you continue to hold that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Call me greedy and close-minded, but I just don't believe it.

Do you support the Thai government SUBSIDY of sugar that other posters have mentioned here, (so I assume it exists)? That seems the OPPOSITE of sugar tax. For free market "purists" you would hate that too ,,, CORRECT?!?

[mogandave]

Is this thread still going on? Why do people move to Thailand and claim they have more freedom, and then set about making it just like the UK?

Tax, control, make lots of new laws...

I think you should let Thailand be Thailand and get your Western tax and control ideas the hell out of your brain.

Thailand is not virgin tax territory, mate. Look at booze and ciggies.

Look at HFCS: Not used a lot in Thailand, yet used a lot in the US.

Why is it used a lot in the US but not in Thailand? Because of US government interference in the US sugar industry.

Why are taxes the be-all-end-all? If you don't like something and believe it's bad for people, grow a pair and take it off the market, don't price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich.

When people state they think the tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them all greedy and whatnot? Also, why do you consider people that that think the tax idea is silly and won't work close-minded, and that people that agree with you open-minded? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has little effect on usage, yet you continue to hold that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Call me greedy and close-minded, but I just don't believe it.

Do you support the Thai government SUBSIDY of sugar that other posters have mentioned here, (so I assume it exists)? That seems the OPPOSITE of sugar tax. For free market "purists" you would hate that too ,,, CORRECT?!?

Why not explain how the subsidy works, what it is supposed to do, and what (if anything) it actually does? If you can do that, I can decide whether or not I support it.

Is giving Anheuser-Bush a tax write-off (a subsidy) for generating electricity from waste gas the same as charging an extra 40% for a bottle of beer? You tell me.

Unlike you, I have to have some idea of what the intent of a government subsidy or tax is, whether or not I believe there is a reasonable chance it will be successful, and what negative effect(s) it will have on the people it is intended to help or on the public as a whole. You (apparently) know nothing about sugar subsidy, but claim it is the opposite of a sugar tax, which you (apparently) also know nothing about.

Your claim of my being a "...free market "purist"..." does nothing but prove that you (at best) are not paying attention or (at worst) a malicious liar. As I indicated previously, I believe you to be a well-meaning fool, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were not paying attention.

As with most liberals, you really have no interest in discussing anything, you just want to cram your position down everyone's throat whether they like it or not, whether it does any good or not and regardless of how many people are hurt. You meant well, that’s counts, right?

To be clear, I pay a pretty good chunk in both Thailand and the US income taxes every year without complaint. I am generally not against taxes or subsidies, but I am very much against idiotic nonsense and crony capitalism, be it well intended or otherwise.

Now I’ve answered your questions as best I can, please answer a few of mine. Again:

If you don't like something and believe it’s bad for people, why not grow a pair and take it off the market? Why just price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich?

When people state that they think you rice or sugar tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them greedy or infer they don’t care? Rather than attacking people, why not try to make a case that your idea is not silly, and that there is a reasonable chance it will work?

Also, why do you consider people that that don’t agree with you close-minded? If you don’t agree with me, does that make you close-minded?

Finally, as I stated previously, even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has had little effect on reducing usage, yet you continue to argue that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Do you have anything at all to help support that argument?

[Thai at Heart]

Is this thread still going on? Why do people move to Thailand and claim they have more freedom, and then set about making it just like the UK?

Tax, control, make lots of new laws...

I think you should let Thailand be Thailand and get your Western tax and control ideas the hell out of your brain.

Thailand is not virgin tax territory, mate. Look at booze and ciggies.

Look at HFCS: Not used a lot in Thailand, yet used a lot in the US.

Why is it used a lot in the US but not in Thailand? Because of US government interference in the US sugar industry.

Why are taxes the be-all-end-all? If you don't like something and believe it's bad for people, grow a pair and take it off the market, don't price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich.

When people state they think the tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them all greedy and whatnot? Also, why do you consider people that that think the tax idea is silly and won't work close-minded, and that people that agree with you open-minded? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has little effect on usage, yet you continue to hold that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Call me greedy and close-minded, but I just don't believe it.

Do you support the Thai government SUBSIDY of sugar that other posters have mentioned here, (so I assume it exists)? That seems the OPPOSITE of sugar tax. For free market "purists" you would hate that too ,,, CORRECT?!?

Why not explain how the subsidy works, what it is supposed to do, and what (if anything) it actually does? If you can do that, I can decide whether or not I support it.

Is giving Anheuser-Bush a tax write-off (a subsidy) for generating electricity from waste gas the same as charging an extra 40% for a bottle of beer? You tell me.

Unlike you, I have to have some idea of what the intent of a government subsidy or tax is, whether or not I believe there is a reasonable chance it will be successful, and what negative effect(s) it will have on the people it is intended to help or on the public as a whole. You (apparently) know nothing about sugar subsidy, but claim it is the opposite of a sugar tax, which you (apparently) also know nothing about.

Your claim of my being a "...free market "purist"..." does nothing but prove that you (at best) are not paying attention or (at worst) a malicious liar. As I indicated previously, I believe you to be a well-meaning fool, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were not paying attention.

As with most liberals, you really have no interest in discussing anything, you just want to cram your position down everyone's throat whether they like it or not, whether it does any good or not and regardless of how many people are hurt. You meant well, thats counts, right?

To be clear, I pay a pretty good chunk in both Thailand and the US income taxes every year without complaint. I am generally not against taxes or subsidies, but I am very much against idiotic nonsense and crony capitalism, be it well intended or otherwise.

Now Ive answered your questions as best I can, please answer a few of mine. Again:

If you don't like something and believe its bad for people, why not grow a pair and take it off the market? Why just price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich?

When people state that they think you rice or sugar tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them greedy or infer they dont care? Rather than attacking people, why not try to make a case that your idea is not silly, and that there is a reasonable chance it will work?

Also, why do you consider people that that dont agree with you close-minded? If you dont agree with me, does that make you close-minded?

Finally, as I stated previously, even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has had little effect on reducing usage, yet you continue to argue that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Do you have anything at all to help support that argument?

It simply limits the domestic price of sugar.

The price is maintained/limited. Quite why they do it is bizarre on light of the idea that consuming extra sugar isn't exactly good for you.

It is basically cheaper than it should be. O don't think the comparison with cigarettes.is quite the same.. Nicotine is horribly addictive. Sugar much less so.

Be interesting to know how much of a tax anyone wants to implement.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[rsokolowski]

How about trying this......if you are fat, don't eat junk food and sugary drinks. Governments aren't very good at doing a lot of things, I am pretty sure this will be another thing on the long list. What will happen is they will make a lot of money off the tax, and keep raising it, then when people actually stop buying junk food they will need to tax something else to make up the revenue. I left my mommy and daddy when I turned eighteen and I don't need any government to try to fulfill the void.

[JSixpack]

Also, why do you consider people that that dont agree with you close-minded? If you dont agree with me, does that make you close-minded?

You've mistaken the poster for someone logical and rational. Don't bother to argue: just say, "no it isn't" or "yes it is."

[rgs2001uk]

Maybe we should do an experiment. Let's take a willing volunteer who believes that taxing sugar is a good thing.

Every time he eats sweetened food, or a sugary soft drink, he can send a shilling to the Inland Revenue.

Let's weigh him now, and in a year's time, and see how much impact it has had, and how much it has cost him, and how irritating is it to keep track?

And let's take another willing volunteer, and force him to ride 20 km on a bike every weekend, and see who is happier about their regime at the end of the year.

Are you up for that, JT?

SC

It's a silly idea but in my case, makes no difference, I religiously avoid sugar. It's hard to do in Thailand as it's in many things without asking. Also unlike taxation only an extremist totalitarian government could mandate exercise, and it should be more often than once a week anyway. Creating good environments for exercise such as making walking more respected in Thailand, play areas for children, etc. is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

Ah, happy hour, two for the price of one.

Taking SC first.

20 clicks a week dont cut it, I usually do 20 miles (30/32 clicks) at least 5 times a week.

The alternative is obvious, cut out the crap I enjoy eating or become a "Pie Man"

Now onto JT.

Dont know where you live, where I live good enviornments for walking/cycling exist.

I see Thais excercising every morning and evening, they all seem to be respectable people.

The moo baan also has a play area for children.

is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

The gov't can introduce as much legislation as it wants, if couch potatoes are too bloody lazy to get their fat ass off the couch, don a pair of running shoes and get out the front door, whose fault is that?

No much easier to blame someone else for their self inflicted obesity.

Double cheeseburger and double fries please, oh dont forget the diet coke, best make it a 32 ouncer.

[mogandave]

Also, why do you consider people that that dont agree with you close-minded? If you dont agree with me, does that make you close-minded?

You've mistaken the poster for someone logical and rational. Don't bother to argue: just say, "no it isn't" or "yes it is."

Spoken like a true close minded hater!!!!!!!

[mogandave]

Maybe we should do an experiment. Let's take a willing volunteer who believes that taxing sugar is a good thing.

Every time he eats sweetened food, or a sugary soft drink, he can send a shilling to the Inland Revenue.

Let's weigh him now, and in a year's time, and see how much impact it has had, and how much it has cost him, and how irritating is it to keep track?

And let's take another willing volunteer, and force him to ride 20 km on a bike every weekend, and see who is happier about their regime at the end of the year.

Are you up for that, JT?

SC

It's a silly idea but in my case, makes no difference, I religiously avoid sugar. It's hard to do in Thailand as it's in many things without asking. Also unlike taxation only an extremist totalitarian government could mandate exercise, and it should be more often than once a week anyway. Creating good environments for exercise such as making walking more respected in Thailand, play areas for children, etc. is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

Ah, happy hour, two for the price of one.

Taking SC first.

20 clicks a week dont cut it, I usually do 20 miles (30/32 clicks) at least 5 times a week.

The alternative is obvious, cut out the crap I enjoy eating or become a "Pie Man"

Now onto JT.

Dont know where you live, where I live good enviornments for walking/cycling exist.

I see Thais excercising every morning and evening, they all seem to be respectable people.

The moo baan also has a play area for children.

is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

The gov't can introduce as much legislation as it wants, if couch potatoes are too bloody lazy to get their fat ass off the couch, don a pair of running shoes and get out the front door, whose fault is that?

No much easier to blame someone else for their self inflicted obesity.

Double cheeseburger and double fries please, oh dont forget the diet coke, best make it a 32 ouncer.

Yeah, you can get all the exercise you can handle without any equipment, and without leaving the house.

[Morakot]

I think we could do with some pictures in this thread!

[Jingthing]

Source link please of that graphic.

You can see males only, BMI obese only, and over age 15 only so I would discount that somewhat.

In any case, it is known the INCREASE in the rate of overweight and obesity has accelerated in Thailand.

That is the red flag.

[Morakot]

Source link please of that graphic.

You can see males only, BMI obese only, and over age 15 only so I would discount that somewhat.

In any case, it is known the INCREASE in the rate of overweight and obesity has accelerated in Thailand.

That is the red flag.

Here you are my man! WHO Global InfoBase and see also here for indicators sortable by different age, gender, and region.

Now your source for increase and source for red flag benchmark, please!

[Jingthing]

Source link please of that graphic.

You can see males only, BMI obese only, and over age 15 only so I would discount that somewhat.

In any case, it is known the INCREASE in the rate of overweight and obesity has accelerated in Thailand.

That is the red flag.

Here you are my man! WHO Global InfoBase and see also here for indicators sortable by different age, gender, and region.

Now your source for increase and source for red flag benchmark, please!

Thanks for the link.

I am not going to repeat links I have already posted. So sorry. Nobody EVER has any obligation to respond to ANY post especially unreasonable ones asking for endless repeats. One doesn't "win" forum "arguments" by accusing people of not posting supporting links for their original written text, even more so when the accusations of non-link postings are false (as has already happened here, so it's getting tiresome). In cases when you post quoted text rather than your own words, that's different, you really should then feel obligated to post the link source of the quote. I saw your graphic as a case like that.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[mogandave]

Doesn't the WHO generate it's revenue by publishing and promoting different issues?

Not saying they are wrong, just looking for clarification.

[Jingthing]

The problem appears to be much more severe with Thai women, so very deceptive to only post the male stats. Nice try, though, A for effort.

Data from: WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

http://www.medindia.net/health_statistics/sear_countries/overweight-and-obesity.asp

Edited January 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

The problem appears to be much more severe with Thai women, so very deceptive to only post the male stats. Nice try, though, A for effort.

overweight-and-obesity-sear.jpg

Data from: WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

http://www.medindia.net/health_statistics/sear_countries/overweight-and-obesity.asp

Gawd, am getting fed up with gaol posts moving here........

[mogandave]

I thought the thread was about what to do about the problem, not whether or not a problem exists, I think for arguments sake, we can treat that as a given, and get to work on what we can do to help.

Incidentally, have you had a chance to look at my questions yet?

[rgs2001uk]

The problem appears to be much more severe with Thai women, so very deceptive to only post the male stats. Nice try, though, A for effort.

overweight-and-obesity-sear.jpg

Data from: WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

http://www.medindia.net/health_statistics/sear_countries/overweight-and-obesity.asp

Gawd, am getting fed up with gaol posts moving here........

Please allow me the luxury of moving the goalposts a bit more.

The problem would apperar to be with mia farang (based on my perosonal observations).

Plenty of non fatties in Thai nightclubs, maybe the farang prefer a bit more meat on the bones as oppossed to the yaba addicted sao sao piw kao the Thais prefer.

[rgs2001uk]

I thought the thread was about what to do about the problem, not whether or not a problem exists, I think for arguments sake, we can treat that as a given, and get to work on what we can do to help. Incidentally, have you had a chance to look at my questions yet?

I thought the thread was about what to do about the problem

First define the problem Thai or farang?

Perhaps the gov't initiatives some are calling for could include Thai immigration introducing a "fat knacker farang" tax, payable at next visa renewal.

Lets say 1,000 baht per kilo overweight?

All offices to be issued with BMI scales and tax accordingly, sounds easy enough to me.

For fat knacker Thai ladies, easy enough, sin sot to be discounted for every kilo overweight.

Singapore airlines got this right years ago, we will employ anyone irrespective of race, colour or religion, just try on this size 8 dress, sorry doesnt fit, next please.