Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[StreetCowboy]

It was about sugar. In yogurt.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's what I said. You said it was about yoghurt with sugar in it.

[Showbags]

Sugar cannot have yogurt in it.

[Jingthing]

What are you guys on about? Some kind of game play / diversion again?

You don't know what kinds of yogurts sold generally at 7-11s or is this just some kind of act?

Yogurt drinks as well. Containing SUGAR. VERY POPULAR with Thais:

Anyway, it's one example of many.

The non-sweetened choices aren't generally offered for the masses in the mass commercial markets.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

What are you guys on about? Some kind of game play / diversion again?

You don't know what kinds of yogurts sold generally at 7-11s or is this just some kind of act?

Yogurt drinks as well. Containing SUGAR. VERY POPULAR with Thais:

2517860511_4bce43a80d_z.jpg

Anyway, it's one example of many.

The non-sweetened choices aren't generally offered for the masses in the mass commercial markets.

You can get your sugar pretty much anyway that you want it in 7-11. They sell what people want to buy. Sugar.

SC

[Jingthing]

What are you guys on about? Some kind of game play / diversion again?

You don't know what kinds of yogurts sold generally at 7-11s or is this just some kind of act?

Yogurt drinks as well. Containing SUGAR. VERY POPULAR with Thais:

2517860511_4bce43a80d_z.jpg

Anyway, it's one example of many.

The non-sweetened choices aren't generally offered for the masses in the mass commercial markets.

You can get your sugar pretty much anyway that you want it in 7-11. They sell what people want to buy. Sugar.

SC

Do you seriously NOT get my point? Of course you get sugar in most everything at 7-11. That's not going to change but how about some more choices, or even ANY choices for each class of products? I am saying they should offer at least SOME non-sugar alternatives. So if they have 20 choices WITH sugar or artificial sweet, there should be at least ONE with NO sugar and not priced double the other choices. It's not only supply and demand, the powerful food industry has helped CREATE the demand. Don't be naive. This is part of the OBESOGENIC environment that makes it really hard for even Thais who are aware of the issues to get the healthier products. I know some of you believe in "perfect" free markets and all that fictional jazz; some people believe in ghosts and fairy tales too.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[Showbags]

If you have issues with 7/11's and the sugar they add to yogurt, go to tops, they have plain yogurt and also natural yogurt.

Is there a difference between plain and natural ?

I bought a tub of Greek yogurt, it was 2 days from the use by date and less than half price.

I figured it should be ok cos the stuff tastes sour anyway.

might add some sugar to it.

[Thai at Heart]

What are you guys on about? Some kind of game play / diversion again?

You don't know what kinds of yogurts sold generally at 7-11s or is this just some kind of act?

Yogurt drinks as well. Containing SUGAR. VERY POPULAR with Thais:

2517860511_4bce43a80d_z.jpg

Anyway, it's one example of many.

The non-sweetened choices aren't generally offered for the masses in the mass commercial markets.

You can get your sugar pretty much anyway that you want it in 7-11. They sell what people want to buy. Sugar.

SC

Do you seriously NOT get my point? Of course you get sugar in most everything at 7-11. That's not going to change but how about some more choices, or even ANY choices for each class of products? I am saying they should offer at least SOME non-sugar alternatives. So if they have 20 choices WITH sugar or artificial sweet, there should be at least ONE with NO sugar and not priced double the other choices. It's not only supply and demand, These markets have helped CREATE the demand. Don't be naive. This is part of the OBESOGENIC environment that makes it really hard for even Thais who are aware of the issues to get the products. I know some of you believe in "perfect" free markets and all that fictional jazz, some people believe in ghosts and fairy tales too.

If they really sold unsweetened largely natural yogurt in thailand, largely no one would eat it. The thai companies know that thais are extremely unlikely to eat unsweetened ypghurt, just like they won't eat unsweetened pasta sauce.

Thais aren't big eaters of blue cheese either.

[Jingthing]

A taste can never be developed for non-sweetened items if they aren't even OFFERED to the masses. These changes have to start somewhere. To suggest Thais are incapable of evolving their tastes over time in reaction to their growing health problems is really insulting to Thais.

Also, if you think the EXAMPLE of yogurt was meant to open a discussion ONLY about yogurt, I am sorry I didn't communicate my point better. It was ONE example. I am suggesting any popular TYPE of product should have at least one option that is healthier. Yogurt, yogurt drinks, that's two TYPES. Go into 7-11 and look at the types of packaged/processed foods. Then you'll see how little choice there is for healthier options. That's a manufactured obesogenic environment. That makes it just TOO HARD even for the Thais that want to try.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[Showbags]

What are you guys on about? Some kind of game play / diversion again?

You don't know what kinds of yogurts sold generally at 7-11s or is this just some kind of act?

Yogurt drinks as well. Containing SUGAR. VERY POPULAR with Thais:

2517860511_4bce43a80d_z.jpg

Anyway, it's one example of many.

The non-sweetened choices aren't generally offered for the masses in the mass commercial markets.

You can get your sugar pretty much anyway that you want it in 7-11. They sell what people want to buy. Sugar.

SC

Do you seriously NOT get my point? Of course you get sugar in most everything at 7-11. That's not going to change but how about some more choices, or even ANY choices for each class of products? I am saying they should offer at least SOME non-sugar alternatives. So if they have 20 choices WITH sugar or artificial sweet, there should be at least ONE with NO sugar and not priced double the other choices. It's not only supply and demand, These markets have helped CREATE the demand. Don't be naive. This is part of the OBESOGENIC environment that makes it really hard for even Thais who are aware of the issues to get the products. I know some of you believe in "perfect" free markets and all that fictional jazz, some people believe in ghosts and fairy tales too.

If they really sold unsweetened largely natural yogurt in thailand, largely no one would eat it. The thai companies know that thais are extremely unlikely to eat unsweetened ypghurt, just like they won't eat unsweetened pasta sauce.

Thais aren't big eaters of blue cheese either.

They really do.

Makro has it, Villa has it, Tops has it....only place I have not seen it is tesco.

[Jingthing]

Villa/Makro limited locations, limited cities.

Tops big markets have it in my experience.

7-11s / Family Marts -- MUCH more widespread.

Again, the point isn't yogurt.

The point is a manufactured obesogenic environment in these mass market convenience stores and how that is ever going to made to be improved at least a LITTLE without some EXTERNAL pressure on the food business.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[BKK Blues Brother]

1 in 3 of the Western population are obese! Higher in America!

Asia has started to follow. Hopefully they can learn by our mistakes but i think not and taxing sugar more is not a realistic proposition.

Education is the key and also the large food companies getting their act together to stop the additives in processed food.

When i was at school everyone was stick thin, if someone was overweight then there was an underlying medical issue.

Now the children are brought up on processed, fat and sugar.....it shows.

The G8 need this on their agenda!

[Thai at Heart]

What are you guys on about? Some kind of game play / diversion again?

You don't know what kinds of yogurts sold generally at 7-11s or is this just some kind of act?

Yogurt drinks as well. Containing SUGAR. VERY POPULAR with Thais:

2517860511_4bce43a80d_z.jpg

Anyway, it's one example of many.

The non-sweetened choices aren't generally offered for the masses in the mass commercial markets.

You can get your sugar pretty much anyway that you want it in 7-11. They sell what people want to buy. Sugar.

SC

Do you seriously NOT get my point? Of course you get sugar in most everything at 7-11. That's not going to change but how about some more choices, or even ANY choices for each class of products? I am saying they should offer at least SOME non-sugar alternatives. So if they have 20 choices WITH sugar or artificial sweet, there should be at least ONE with NO sugar and not priced double the other choices. It's not only supply and demand, These markets have helped CREATE the demand. Don't be naive. This is part of the OBESOGENIC environment that makes it really hard for even Thais who are aware of the issues to get the products. I know some of you believe in "perfect" free markets and all that fictional jazz, some people believe in ghosts and fairy tales too.

If they really sold unsweetened largely natural yogurt in thailand, largely no one would eat it. The thai companies know that thais are extremely unlikely to eat unsweetened ypghurt, just like they won't eat unsweetened pasta sauce.

Thais aren't big eaters of blue cheese either.

They really do.

Makro has it, Villa has it, Tops has it....only place I have not seen it is tesco.

I know they have it. But 7 11 is chock full.of sweetened yogurt and other milk drinks. This is what is perceived as yogurt not what is on the shelf in Makro.

It is fair to say that there are an enormous amount of sweetened milk.products thrown at children in thailand. Cest la vie.

7 11 and cp are largely the problem.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Jingthing]

1 in 3 of the Western population are obese! Higher in America!

Asia has started to follow. Hopefully they can learn by our mistakes but i think not and taxing sugar more is not a realistic proposition.

Education is the key and also the large food companies getting their act together to stop the additives in processed food.

When i was at school everyone was stick thin, if someone was overweight then there was an underlying medical issue.

Now the children are brought up on processed, fat and sugar.....it shows.

The G8 need this on their agenda!

The American experience is education is not the key. I know everyone says do that, I agree, do it because at least it will help SOME people. It has to be attacked in multiple ways. Visible messages from the government to raise awareness would be good. Actual real pressure on big food manufactures, and the mass retailers like 7-11, labeling reform, it's all needed and more. Nothing is perfect and it will take time and not help everyone but there is no good reason to do nothing as a society.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[krisb]

I think it's all based around picking on fat people.

If I am happy being 175kg, what's the problem?

[Jingthing]

I think it's all based around picking on fat people.

If I am happy being 175kg, what's the problem?

Are you actually 175 kg. and happy or is that a hypothetical?

If you are, I'd say OK.

But societies will be hurt, productivity and cost-wise, if too many of their population are like that.

That level of obesity is a known serious health risk.

This thread isn't so much about individual's situations, as the bigger picture of obesity rates in society.

[krisb]

I also feel the old sugar farmers would no doubt somehow someway end up wearing the sugar tax. Do you agree?

Life's about choices. Alcohol, cigarettes, hell even sun baking is not healthy. How about Thailand sticking an excise tax on booze? It didn't work in Australia, but it may in Thailand. Never know.

I do feel sorry for the young overweight kids out there. It's not their choice what they eat, it's the parents choice and that is sad.

Anyhow Jingthing, it's very early in Thailand at the moment, you are up early. Big night out on thee town mate?

[NeverSure]

Yep, let's bring all of the nanny state, socialist, tax, tax, tax and control people rules to Thailand. Then we'll all have to hunt for another place to go so that we won't think we're in the fkn UK.

[David48]

Do you seriously NOT get my point?

We get your point - we just disagree.

Nothing wrong with that.

We are waiting for a debate point sufficient to sway our opinion.

To date, it has not been forthcoming.

Thus the debate continues ...

Maybe your argument needs a sweetener ...

.

[Jingthing]

Yep, let's bring all of the nanny state, socialist, tax, tax, tax and control people rules to Thailand. Then we'll all have to hunt for another place to go so that we won't think we're in the fkn UK.

The UK obesity rates are quite high. What does this topic have to do with UK expat's peculiar selfish desires?

Interesting however to note these UK physician suggestions to try to combat the ALREADY severe obesity situation in the UK. Some of these concepts are similar to what has been talked about on this thread, but not actually in effect in the UK. So it's false to suggest this is about doing what the UK does, because they haven't done it!

Recommendations include:

• Food-based standards to be mandatory in all UK hospitals
• A ban on new fast food outlets being located close to schools and colleges
• A duty on all sugary soft drinks, increasing the price by at least 20%, to be piloted
• Traffic light food labelling to include calorie information for children and adolescents – with * visible calorie indicators for restaurants, especially fast food outlets
• £100m in each of the next three years to be spent on increasing provision of weight management services across the country
• A ban on advertising of foods high in saturated fats, sugar and salt before 9pm
• Existing mandatory food- and nutrient-based standards in England to be statutory in free schools and academies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_Kingdom

From the same link, support that mirrors my view for a key cause of globesity in the UK, Thailand, so many other countries:

But one thing that has changed is the food that they eat, and, more specifically, the sheer amount of sugar they ingest "We're being bombarded every day by the food industry to consume more and more food. "It's a war between our bodies and the demands our body makes, and the accessibility that modern society gives us with food. And as a scientist I feel really depressed, because we are losing the war against obesity."

Edited January 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[mogandave]

Do people go to 7-11 to buy healthy food?

Sent from my Telefinken U47 using my finger.

[Showbags]

Villa/Makro limited locations, limited cities.

Tops big markets have it in my experience.

7-11s / Family Marts -- MUCH more widespread.

Again, the point isn't yogurt.

The point is a manufactured obesogenic environment in these mass market convenience stores and how that is ever going to made to be improved at least a LITTLE without some EXTERNAL pressure on the food business.

Tops minimarts do have it.

711 cannot deal with their global pollution concepts yet, so why would they care about enforcing another company to cut out the sugar in its yogurt.

its all about addiction.

I think it's all based around picking on fat people.

If I am happy being 175kg, what's the problem?

Its because you selfishly take up someone elses space without a care in the world except for yourself.

[Morakot]

Tops minimarts do have it.

...

its all about addiction.

[Thai at Heart]

Yep, let's bring all of the nanny state, socialist, tax, tax, tax and control people rules to Thailand. Then we'll all have to hunt for another place to go so that we won't think we're in the fkn UK.

The UK obesity rates are quite high. What does this topic have to do with UK expat's peculiar selfish desires?

Interesting however to note these UK physician suggestions to try to combat the ALREADY severe obesity situation in the UK. Some of these concepts are similar to what has been talked about on this thread, but not actually in effect in the UK. So it's false to suggest this is about doing what the UK does, because they haven't done it!

Recommendations include:

• Food-based standards to be mandatory in all UK hospitals
• A ban on new fast food outlets being located close to schools and colleges
• A duty on all sugary soft drinks, increasing the price by at least 20%, to be piloted
• Traffic light food labelling to include calorie information for children and adolescents with * visible calorie indicators for restaurants, especially fast food outlets
• £100m in each of the next three years to be spent on increasing provision of weight management services across the country
• A ban on advertising of foods high in saturated fats, sugar and salt before 9pm
• Existing mandatory food- and nutrient-based standards in England to be statutory in free schools and academies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_Kingdom

From the same link, support that mirrors my view for a key cause of globesity in the UK, Thailand, so many other countries:

But one thing that has changed is the food that they eat, and, more specifically, the sheer amount of sugar they ingest "We're being bombarded every day by the food industry to consume more and more food. "It's a war between our bodies and the demands our body makes, and the accessibility that modern society gives us with food. And as a scientist I feel really depressed, because we are losing the war against obesity."

Limiting obesity is socialism? My lord.

Fox rules!

[cashpower]

a tax cannot work because it is discriminatory and unfair. instead, crack troops should stake out 7-11s and administer savage beatings to any butterball caught leaving with a trafficable amount of candy (say 25g). this should solve the obesity problem and as an added bonus provide endless entertainment for the socialist do-gooders who wish to impinge on the rights of others 'for their own good'

[cashpower]

and... to keep things fair, the butterball has an equal right of reply if it is found that the do-gooder is guilty of using the latest annoying buzzword (such as globesity) to push their agenda

everybody wins

[Jingthing]

and... to keep things fair, the butterball has an equal right of reply if it is found that the do-gooder is guilty of using the latest annoying buzzword (such as globesity) to push their agenda

everybody wins

You're bein' an apologist for the obesogenic environment, Homie.

[cashpower]

that's a paddlin'

[Morakot]

Campaigners vow to cut sugar in food

Action on Sugar has been set up by the team behind Consensus Action on Salt and Health (Cash), which has pushed for cuts to salt intake since the 1990s.

The new group aims to help people avoid "hidden sugars" and get manufacturers to reduce the ingredient over time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25650352

[Jingthing]

Great!

Why couldn't that program be pretty much be copied in Thailand?

[StreetCowboy]

Great!

Why couldn't that program be pretty much be copied in Thailand?

Because interfering busybodies would want to add taxes and regulations and rules, and the corrupt bureaucrats would bite their jhands off in their eagerness to adopt something that would attract backhanders.

And because it's not something that Thais are bothered about. They might take it more seriously once some other country which already has a problem has demonstrated that they can reduce obesity, rather than themselves worrying about a problem that is still on the horizon.

You might find a more sympathetic audience in Malaysia, where obesity, and particularly diabetes, are bigger problems.

Anyway, back to the practicalities; in order of priorities, should I be worried about sugars, some specific sugars (e.g. HFCS in preference to sucrose), calories, carbohydrates, fats, trans-fats? At the moment, as far as I can tell:

- We are all doomed

- There are too many bad things to list them all

- For every one thing that is bad for us, there are another two that are also bad for us

- Somebody else ought to do something about it, instead of me using my intelligence, wit and judgement

- Anything sensible that I could suggest, like taking more exercise, or switching from wholemeal sodas to diet sodas, is not going to cut the mustard

I don;t even know if mustard is a good thing, especially after it's been cut...

SC