Question about Condominium Management/juristic person

[Barack]

My friend has been elected to the condominium association board. He has learned the juristic person and management company is the sister of the project developer. His view is this is a direct conflict of interest. Is this legal? What can be done? The developer has a majority voting interest.

[Delight]

I do not quite understand 'the juristic person and management company is the sister of the project developer'

That aside.

If the developer has the majority of the votes then he controls the selection of the Juristic Person Manger(JPM) and the management company.By law no single person can have more than the sum of all the other votes. Presumably at the general meeting where the decisions were take -his/her allocation of votes was enough to gain control.

That said.

The JPM reports to the committee -not the other way around.

Its is now down to the committee to agree policy decisions that the JPM will implement.

Assuming that the developer is not on the committee -then he/she or his/her relatives have no influence.

Suspect that a detailed knowledge of the Condo Act by some or all of the committee members will help them keep legal control.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Delight

[Barack]

Thanks for the reply. The project in question is here in Pattaya. The developer has completed many projects here and manages several of them using the developer's sister's management company. The sister sits in the developers office and they work together as a team. They are in fact the same. The wishes and interests of the developer and homeowners aren't always in harmony, there can naturally be conflicts. There should be legal way to prevent this obvious conflict of interest.

[jbaldwin]

There is no legal requirement that the management company is not connected with the developer. Who is the management company is a decision for the Committee. If the Committee decides the it is appropriate for the developer to act as management company then that is fine. If theCommittee decides that the management company should be replaced then it will replace them.

[Delight]

Thanks for the reply. The project in question is here in Pattaya. The developer has completed many projects here and manages several of them using the developer's sister's management company. The sister sits in the developers office and they work together as a team. They are in fact the same. The wishes and interests of the developer and homeowners aren't always in harmony, there can naturally be conflicts. There should be legal way to prevent this obvious conflict of interest.

Where is the Juristic Person Manager in all this?

What was the process to select this management post ?

[rayongchelsea]

This is not unusual.

It allows the developer to maintain control.

As you have rightly stated their interests and the interested of the co- owners is usually polar opposites.

How can you get the Jp to enforce issues against the developer if they are one of the same.

Probably friendly with the auditor as well.

Control the cash , lack of transparency, failure to rectify defects under warranty etc..

Poor transparency .

What your friend has to do, is work out on the committee how many members are the developers 'friends" and those who are just co- owners. I will guarantee that the majority will be with the developer. First of all find out who is the chairman..another relative/ close friend for sure..

Had to kick our developer out..

[Barack]

Thanks for the reply. The project in question is here in Pattaya. The developer has completed many projects here and manages several of them using the developer's sister's management company. The sister sits in the developers office and they work together as a team. They are in fact the same. The wishes and interests of the developer and homeowners aren't always in harmony, there can naturally be conflicts. There should be legal way to prevent this obvious conflict of interest.

Where is the Juristic Person Manager in all this?

What was the process to select this management post ?

The juristic person /management company /manager/developer are for all practical purposes the same. At the board meetings, the juristic person will make recommendations such as the management company or the auditor. The homeowners then vote or should I say rubber stamp the recommendations at AGM. My buddy is very uncomfortable with this cosy arrangement.

[Barack]

This is not unusual.It allows the developer to maintain control.As you have rightly stated their interests and the interested of the co- owners is usually polar opposites.How can you get the Jp to enforce issues against the developer if they are one of the same. Probably friendly with the auditor as well.Control the cash , lack of transparency, failure to rectify defects under warranty etc..Poor transparency .What your friend has to do, is work out on the committee how many members are the developers 'friends" and those who are just co- owners. I will guarantee that the majority will be with the developer. First of all find out who is the chairman..another relative/ close friend for sure..Had to kick our developer out..

The new board (3) is independent and the developer has no friends on this board. One of the first issues is for the developer to repair storm damage to her unsold units that happened 6 months ago.

[Delight]

This is not unusual.It allows the developer to maintain control.As you have rightly stated their interests and the interested of the co- owners is usually polar opposites.How can you get the Jp to enforce issues against the developer if they are one of the same. Probably friendly with the auditor as well.Control the cash , lack of transparency, failure to rectify defects under warranty etc..Poor transparency .What your friend has to do, is work out on the committee how many members are the developers 'friends" and those who are just co- owners. I will guarantee that the majority will be with the developer. First of all find out who is the chairman..another relative/ close friend for sure..Had to kick our developer out..

The new board (3) is independent and the developer has no friends on this board. One of the first issues is for the developer to repair storm damage to her unsold units that happened 6 months ago.

If this damage is 'internal' i.e. not in the common area -then using common resources to carry out these repairs is illegal.You have not specified who is paying for these repairs.

[rayongchelsea]

I am in the same situation. Water damage caused by rain.

Of course the developer wants nothing to do with it, but repair from sinking fund ( which has diminished when they managed the building)

The damage has been caused by tiles on the outside of our building poorly install.

The developer insists that this is not part of the structure and therefore falls out side of the warranty.

Arguments are endless and frustrating.

Frankly if they do the repair it will done in the cheapest way and will re- occur the following rainy season..

We will self fund the repairs.

[ThaiBob]

Thanks for the reply. The project in question is here in Pattaya. The developer has completed many projects here and manages several of them using the developer's sister's management company. The sister sits in the developers office and they work together as a team. They are in fact the same. The wishes and interests of the developer and homeowners aren't always in harmony, there can naturally be conflicts. There should be legal way to prevent this obvious conflict of interest.

Where is the Juristic Person Manager in all this?

What was the process to select this management post ?

The juristic person /management company /manager/developer are for all practical purposes the same. At the board meetings, the juristic person will make recommendations such as the management company or the auditor. The homeowners then vote or should I say rubber stamp the recommendations at AGM. My buddy is very uncomfortable with this cosy arrangement.

Thanks for getting this thread started. I am "that" new board member here at View Talay 7 in Jomtien, Pattaya. As stated I am very uncomfortable with this cozy arrangement. Off the record, I have been told the old committee was given payments for attending board meetings. The new committee has pledged itself to accept no gifts or payments. Thanks for everyone's input and looking forward for the forum's help in the future.

[ThaiBob]

This is not unusual.It allows the developer to maintain control.As you have rightly stated their interests and the interested of the co- owners is usually polar opposites.How can you get the Jp to enforce issues against the developer if they are one of the same. Probably friendly with the auditor as well.Control the cash , lack of transparency, failure to rectify defects under warranty etc..Poor transparency .What your friend has to do, is work out on the committee how many members are the developers 'friends" and those who are just co- owners. I will guarantee that the majority will be with the developer. First of all find out who is the chairman..another relative/ close friend for sure..Had to kick our developer out..

The new board (3) is independent and the developer has no friends on this board. One of the first issues is for the developer to repair storm damage to her unsold units that happened 6 months ago.

If this damage is 'internal' i.e. not in the common area -then using common resources to carry out these repairs is illegal.You have not specified who is paying for these repairs.

The new committee believes it is the homeowners responsibility and should pay for repairs. Not sure building insurance can assist with storm damage but we are checking. The repair in question is to the ceilings on the balconies which were severely damaged by the storm.

[rayongchelsea]

This is not unusual.It allows the developer to maintain control.As you have rightly stated their interests and the interested of the co- owners is usually polar opposites.How can you get the Jp to enforce issues against the developer if they are one of the same. Probably friendly with the auditor as well.Control the cash , lack of transparency, failure to rectify defects under warranty etc..Poor transparency .What your friend has to do, is work out on the committee how many members are the developers 'friends" and those who are just co- owners. I will guarantee that the majority will be with the developer. First of all find out who is the chairman..another relative/ close friend for sure..Had to kick our developer out..

The new board (3) is independent and the developer has no friends on this board. One of the first issues is for the developer to repair storm damage to her unsold units that happened 6 months ago.

If this damage is 'internal' i.e. not in the common area -then using common resources to carry out these repairs is illegal.You have not specified who is paying for these repairs.

The new committee believes it is the homeowners responsibility and should pay for repairs. Not sure building insurance can assist with storm damage but we are checking. The repair in question is to the ceilings on the balconies which were severely damaged by the storm.

Yep. Residential unit..at the beginning we helped people with issues like this, claimed on insurance..Our premium soared plus it's not really a structural but more a wear and tear ( unfortunate issue). Start off how you mean to carry on.

Is it only the non sold developers units that got damaged?

[ThaiBob]

Is it only the non sold developers units that got damaged?

Yes. I just want to get the dam things fixed. They are an eyesore and detract from the building, you would think the builder would realize this since she is trying to sell units. There are about six units. We also have cracks around around 70 front doorframes in the interior hallways. The builder claims with some justification that the owner is responsible because of constant door slamming because of the wind. This is a common area and I just want to get things fixed. It isn't expensive and I really don't care who pays. Bill the owner or bill the association, just do it, is my view.

[fvw53]

This is not unusual. It allows the developer to maintain control. As you have rightly stated their interests and the interested of the co- owners is usually polar opposites. How can you get the Jp to enforce issues against the developer if they are one of the same. Probably friendly with the auditor as well. Control the cash , lack of transparency, failure to rectify defects under warranty etc.. Poor transparency . What your friend has to do, is work out on the committee how many members are the developers 'friends" and those who are just co- owners. I will guarantee that the majority will be with the developer. First of all find out who is the chairman..another relative/ close friend for sure.. Had to kick our developer out..

Yes....control the cash...in our condo we had similar situation during more than 10 years until it was discovered by a new co-owner with experience of the Condo Act..... that 5 million Baht of monthly fees for common area were missing...

[rayongchelsea]

Is it only the non sold developers units that got damaged?

Yes. I just want to get the dam things fixed. They are an eyesore and detract from the building, you would think the builder would realize this since she is trying to sell units. There are about six units. We also have cracks around around 70 front doorframes in the interior hallways. The builder claims with some justification that the owner is responsible because of constant door slamming because of the wind. This is a common area and I just want to get things fixed. It isn't expensive and I really don't care who pays. Bill the owner or bill the association, just do it, is my view.

My attitude exactly. If ain't going to be too expensive just do it..things go at a snails pace when getting things done.

Just project forward what you want to have done, put it in the budget get it approved and then things go easier. I have very frugal Thais to deal with..just don't want to spend. The idea that getting things fixed and looking better will increase their investment and generally make it a much nice place to stay seems beyond understanding!!

My developers has got some unsold in terrible condition ( villas). It really beggars belief..

[Farang two dot zero]

Who takes care of choosing the Juristic Person Manager in condominium, we are at the fourth for 5 years. Every time the money is stolen and nobody goes to prison and the homeowners pay to enrich thieves !

There would be an ongoing case between the former manager and the new Juristic Person Manager. 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Farang two dot zero

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, Farang two dot zero said:

Who takes care of choosing the Juristic Person Manager in condominium, we are at the fourth for 5 years. Every time the money is stolen and nobody goes to prison and the homeowners pay to enrich thieves !

There would be an ongoing case between the former manager and the new Juristic Person Manager. 

 

It's the co-owners' task to choose a JPM at the AGM which must by law be held every year, though the term of the JPM can be longer. If not enough co-owners attend (25%) then one committee member has to do the job until such time as a JPM can be elected by co-owners. There are no exceptions to this. That could go on indefinitely in some buildings where AGM attendance is always low.

 

If money has been stolen then your management should file a complaint with the police. If you don't have any management then your committee should do it.

 

Unfortunately most such thefts do go entirely unpunished here, and rarely is any of the money recovered. The tendency is always to hush such things up. It's the Thai way.

Edited July 25, 2019 by KittenKong

[Farang two dot zero]

15 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It's the co-owners' task to choose a JPM at the AGM which must by law be held every year, though the term of the JPM can be longer. If not enough co-owners attend (25%) then one committee member has to do the job until such time as a JPM can be elected by co-owners. There are no exceptions to this. That could go on indefinitely in some buildings where AGM attendance is always low.

 

If money has been stolen then your management should file a complaint with the police. If you don't have any management then your committee should do it.

 

Unfortunately most such thefts do go entirely unpunished here, and rarely is any of the money recovered. The tendency is always to hush such things up. It's the Thai way.

Thank you for your answer but how does the Juristic Person Manager respond to an ad on the internet ?

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Farang two dot zero said:

Thank you for your answer but how does the Juristic Person Manager respond to an ad on the internet ?

I'm not sure what you mean. Is your committee/management advertising for a JPM? There is nothing wrong with that and, if so, the candidates should be presented to co-owners at a general meeting for them to decide which one they want.

 

It's also quite common for the management company to be JPM as part of their job, or for a co-owner to do it. It really all depends on the size of the building and how it is run.

 

But whichever solution you go for, the committee has to watch all activity very closely. If it doesnt then money will surely go missing. Trust no one.

Edited July 26, 2019 by KittenKong