EC chairman is not confident Feb 2 election can be held

[Puccini]

When the PM resigns then there is no acting government anymore, so can also not have the duty to hold elections.

Based on that theory, there could never be elections again if she resigned.

If she resigns, there is still a care-taker government in place. A deputy (care-taker) PM would take over, and everything would proceed as normal.

An interim government would be appointed, which will be given a timeframe to hold elections.

Thaksin was care taker for something like 6 months before he was ousted by a coup.

After he was ousted an interim government appointed by he army took care of the country for more than a year before holding elections.

Yes, an interim government would be appointed, at the behest of Suthep's committee, which would seize power over the government, abrogate the constitution, and submit an interim constitution for promulgation. This is Suthep's declared plan of action.

[Puccini]

When the PM resigns then there is no acting government anymore, so can also not have the duty to hold elections.

Based on that theory, there could never be elections again if she resigned.

If she resigns, there is still a care-taker government in place. A deputy (care-taker) PM would take over, and everything would proceed as normal.

Which section of the Thai constitution or of what Thai law states that a deputy (care-taker) PM would take over? I could find no such clause.

[smedly]

Not that im a fan of the Shins but as has been said so many times..... a few hundred thousand or even a million is not that many in a country of 75 million... sorry to burst the bubble. And I doubt very very much if the majority of original protesters want the alternative undemocratic option laid out for them either just the former problem and issue gone.

This nutjob has hijacked the original protests and is now reverting to kind... which is good in a horrible way as its open for all to see.

I do see the point you are trying to make but you need to consider the following

1. There are not 75 million people in Thailand

2. Your quote is only relevant after you've worked out the correct population and then included only those old enough to vote.

3. Out of those of age to vote - how many actually do

also consider that PTP formed a coalition government because they had too

take the vote buying and the populist policies that after 2 years have left the government unable to pay for them without huge loans

a very different landscape emerges considering the length and breadth of anti government sentiment that exists today

All opposition has to do is propose a workable rice scheme going forward and the EC enforces the rules, reform the rules around eligible candidates ruling out those and their families with convictions life ban instead of 5 years (correct thing to do) and you have a totally different ball game

The EC has a lot of work to do and reforms need to take place before elections

There are some very simple things that would go a long way to improve the political landscape here

[whybother]

Which section of the Thai constitution or of what Thai law states that a deputy (care-taker) PM would take over? I could find no such clause.

What happened when Samak was forced to step down? A deputy (Somchai) took over until a new PM was elected (Somchai).

What happened when Somchai was forced to step down? A deputy (Chaovarat) took over until a new PM was elected (Abhisit).

[catterwell]

In response to two FAQs:

 

1) What happens if a caretaker PM resigns?

 

Constitution Section 180 states "Ministers vacate office en masse upon: (1) the termination of the ministership of the Prime Minister under Section 182; ..."

 

Section 182 states "The ministership of an individual Minister terminates upon: (1) death; (2) resignation;..."

 

Without a court interpretation that stretched Section 181 to override Section 180(1), the resignation of the PM would result in there being no caretaker government.

 

In any case, any new PM would have to be nominated by the House of Representatives (which doesn't exist after it's dissolved - MPs don't stay on in a caretaker role).

 

This eventuality is not covered by the Constitution, so the wildcard Section 7 would come into play ... "it shall be decided in accordance with the constitutional practice ...".

 

2) Does the PM or the EC have the power to reschedule the election?

 

No such power is explicitly detailed in the Constitution or the relevant Organic Law. So it is a matter of interpretation.

 

One approach (there are many) ...

 

The EC is empowered to organise a "free and fair election", which must be held on the same day nationwide.

 

If circumstances advise, the EC is explicitly empowered to postpone the election in specific constituencies. Thus the EC may in certain constituencies postpone the "2 Feb 2014" election to a later date - there are no explicit time limits. The legal practice of "stopping the clock" is thus embedded within the Organic Law on the EC. Again it's a question of interpretation, but one might be, with reasonable grounds, the EC may be empower to reschedule the`nationwide "2 Feb 2014" election to a later date, which date to be specified when reasonable conditions are met.

 

 

Whatever happens, the Constitutional Court's in-tray is going to pile up.

[khunken]

When the PM resigns then there is no acting government anymore, so can also not have the duty to hold elections.

Based on that theory, there could never be elections again if she resigned.

If she resigns, there is still a care-taker government in place. A deputy (care-taker) PM would take over, and everything would proceed as normal.

An interim government would be appointed, which will be given a timeframe to hold elections.

Thaksin was care taker for something like 6 months before he was ousted by a coup.

After he was ousted an interim government appointed by he army took care of the country for more than a year before holding elections.

Yes, an interim government would be appointed, at the behest of Suthep's committee, which would seize power over the government, abrogate the constitution, and submit an interim constitution for promulgation. This is Suthep's declared plan of action.

Ah a conspiracy theorist because nowhere has Suthep stated any of that. Why post lies?

[tingtongteesood]

If he is unable to do his job then he should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

That's funny. PTP government and competence are two words that don't go together!

Just like madman Suthep, democracy and intelligence should not be mentioned in the same sentence!!

And you think mad want to be dictator Thaksin knows the meaning of the word democracy...?

I don't think so !

Suthep is much more intelligent than you and he knows exactly what he is doing. Every time the government zigs he zags to match them...I admit at times he seems a bit nutty at times though.

[tomacht8]

Good to postpone the election, coz there are still around 50% criminals on the electoral lists.

Since 14 years, always the same corrupt and criminals faces.
This is now enough for many many people.

Many Thais want to see all corrupt politicians and civil servants to be prosecuted in court and sentenced to
heavy jail sentences, and their illegally acquired assets seized, then
a ban for life as politicians or civil servants in the Thai administration

Happy new year to everybody.

[DGIE]

If he is unable to do his job then he should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

Appoint Suthep so he is now more than happy

[angsta]

You guys notice how every 40 feet there is a Yingluck poster, and nobody else's? Some democracy, huh?

You have to be a Fox News watching America, just have to be. Incredible.

Instead of paying millions of baht to run a refugee camp at Democracy Monument the (anti) Democrats could put up all the posters they wanted.

Huh?

[angsta]

If he is unable to do his job then he should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

That's funny. PTP government and competence are two words that don't go together!

For the hard of reading you will note the PTP government has not been mentioned and are therefore the two are not going together.

You forgot to mention Thaksin silly, maybe you can edit your post??

[JRSoul]

You guys notice how every 40 feet there is a Yingluck poster, and nobody else's? Some democracy, huh?

You have to be a Fox News watching America, just have to be. Incredible.

Instead of paying millions of baht to run a refugee camp at Democracy Monument the (anti) Democrats could put up all the posters they wanted.

Huh?

But far too many signs, billboards not mere posters, bearing her mug were up well before an election was announced, courtesy of the Thai taxpayer.

Edited January 1, 2014 by JRSoul

[GeorgeO]

If he is unable to do his job then he should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

She is unable to do her job so she should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

[Skywalker69]

This is Suthep's declared plan of action.

And you can provide a link to that declared plan of action?

[TVGerry]

If he is unable to do his job then he should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

That's funny. PTP government and competence are two words that don't go together!

For the hard of reading you will note the PTP government has not been mentioned and are therefore the two are not going together.

You forgot to mention Thaksin silly, maybe you can edit your post??

Who's the one who appoints the EC chairman again?

[Bpuumike]

"He said he had already conveyed his concern to the government and insisted that caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has the authority to postpone the election."

And she says she hasn't the authority... Someone is clearly wrong here.

My internet is too slow to wade through 3 pages of responses but as I understand it the (Ha, ha current Constitution) sets a time limit once an election is announced.

Probably what Madam is referring to and don't know how the EC can suggest otherwise.

But I'm only a simple farang.

[Bpuumike]

Exactly, All someone has to do is point to the clause in the Constitution that shows the conditions of an election and who and under what circumstances the election can be postponed...but no one has been able to do that yet.

PT says it's mandated to be held no less than 45 days and no more than 60 days after house dissolution but the PDRC and EC say it can be delayed...I wish the latter would say how it can be delayed within the ambit of the Constitution.

I have already posted this three times as well as the OP which was on this site, but it seems you and several others have missed so once again :

Election postponement possible if parties agree: EC

BANGKOK: -- Election Commission member Somchai Srisuthiyakorn said on Tuesday that the EC is ready to postpone the election from February 2 if political parties reach an agreement to delay it and if it is permitted under the law.

Reasons to postpone

_ A poll can be delayed by 30 days via royal decree if there is civil unrest, floods, fire or other eventualities (according to Article 78 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If the ballot papers are damaged or lost (according to Article 85 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If only one candidate is elected in a constituency and receives less than 20 per cent of the total vote (according to Article 88 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ A constituency has no MP candidates;

_ The number of MPs is less than 95 per cent of 500 - the compulsory figure that is needed for the House of Representatives to convene (according to Article 93 of the Constitution).

As some appointed Senators suggested that the Feb 2 election could be postponed under Article 187 of the Constitution, Ms Yingluck said this is a new issue which should be thoroughly studied and the forum could help find the best solution to the current political quagmire

.

Election delay possible

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission's new team says it could delay the general election from the scheduled date of February 2

You should also note that Thaksin had elections delayed and his term as caretaker PM extended.

So there is a precedent, in the family even.

Good info thanks. Only got to read it after I already posted.

Happy New Year

[ratcatcher]

Election delay possible

What we have here is a rare case of electile dysfunction.

[dukebowling]

whybother post # 41

The question becomes, what happens when there aren't enough MPs elected? If 25 constituencies don't elect an MP, then parliament can't be formed, and a PM can't be elected. Parliament has to be formed within 30 days of the election (IIRC). What happens after that?

Thailand is rapidly advancing to the status of a ''Failed State.'' The obsessive campaign by P.T.P. on behalf of their puppet master has caused the emergence of a vigorous opposition movement that is from the grass roots.That opposition has proved somewhat more longer lasting that many people thought and it would appear that that opposition is not going to vanish so very quickly either.

Suthep is the leader and let's not forget leaders emerge from the crowd due to their oratory skills and personality, however leaders can and are replaced as time and advances in the campaign move on.

There are going to be some interesting times coming. It would seem as if the police are unable or unwilling to ''police '' the situation and there is it seems increasing pressure on the military to act.

Such pressure could well develop into a silent coup to preserve the nation. Indeed so many tangled webs have been woven and the weavers are still busy weaving their multiple complex patterns. In reality is there actually a clue as to, who is who, what is what regarding this current situation.

The comes a time when all have to sit and talk, and there is a good case as far as I can see for a national un-elected governing body drawn from all walks of life and all political beliefs too.None of the current political figures should be included in the committee so as to hopefully ensure there is no bickering and far less corruption

A powerful properly formulated time span so as to allow the governing body to achieve its aims and to get Thailand and its peoples back on track.

The E.C. chairman is in a very untenable position.

Resign and he is lambasted for failing to perform his duties. Stay on and preside over a farcical election and an ensuing stalemate and possibly an increase in civil unrest which of course he would be blamed for.

Indeed I am glad I am not the E.C. chairman, as I am sure I should not be able to sleep well abed at night.

Perhaps a seance or a Ouija board could be employed or co-opted to some committee and contact made with a long since gone King Solomon for some sage advice, couldn't do any worse than we on T.V.F. could it?

Happy New Year to you all.

An unelected governing body that is not corrupt???…that is a good joke!

Corruption existis in politics no matter what. The key is to minimize it. The way to do this is by making the path into power by a representative election (popular vote). Anytime you introduce an appointment by a small group or person, you introduce additional elements of coercion either by lobbying, intimidation or bribery. Not to mention the unfair element in obtaining an advantageous power position relative to the ability of your peers.

It is time to stop the coup cycle and generate a democratic cycle like this:

A. Have an election

B. People pick their leader

B. Let the governing body make it's mistakes,

C. Government improves and learns from it's mistakes

D. See A.

The alternative is continue with history:

A. Coup the government

B. Create a new constitution and non elected government

C. Majority party and country protests

D. Non-elected government agrees to have an election

E. People pick their leader and previous government loses power

F. Government makes mistakes

F. The minority party protests

G. See A.

The first option makes a whole lot more sense.

Edited January 1, 2014 by dukebowling

[truk39]

If he is unable to do his job then he should resign and they can appoint someone who is competent.

That's funny. PTP government and competence are two words that don't go together!

For the hard of reading you will note the PTP government has not been mentioned and are therefore the two are not going together.

You forgot to mention Thaksin silly, maybe you can edit your post??

Who's the one who appoints the EC chairman again?

The King with advice from Senate and countersigned by President of the Senate, Article 229 of the 2007 constitution (http://www.isaanlawyers.com/constitution%20thailand%202007%20-%202550.pdf)

According to Wiki, Current EC was formed on Sept 20, 2006 and I can't find who the President of the Senate was at the time (But the name of this man does not appear on the Wiki, and I can't find any other listing of EC officials)

Edited January 1, 2014 by truk39

[JRSoul]

An unelected governing body that is not corrupt???…that is a good joke!

Corruption existis in politics no matter what. The key is to minimize it. The way to do this is by making the path into power by a representative election (popular vote). Anytime you introduce an appointment by a small group or person, you introduce additional elements of coercion either by lobbying, intimidation or bribery. Not to mention the unfair element in obtaining an advantageous power position relative to the ability of your peers.

It is time to stop the coup cycle and generate a democratic cycle like this:

A. Have an election

B. People pick their leader

B. Let the governing body make it's mistakes,

C. Government improves and learns from it's mistakes

D. See A.

The alternative is continue with history:

A. Coup the government

B. Create a new constitution and non elected government

C. Majority party and country protests

D. Non-elected government agrees to have an election

E. People pick their leader and previous government loses power

F. Government makes mistakes

F. The minority party protests

G. See A.

The first option makes a whole lot more sense.

Don't you agree that before A you should have in place an appropriate set of checks and balances to prevent the corruption being currently exhibited? Why does a government learn from its mistakes if they are intentional and there are no repercussions?

At the moment, we have a non-elected person convicted of corruption in office dictating government policy and being given access to cabinet meetings. If he is using information gained from this to further his business interests, and how could he not, this is a conspiracy to allow insider trading even if no other laws are broken.

We also have a government proposing populist policy with no accounting of its costs and benefits. We also have ridiculous defamation laws which could see criticism of such policy leading to criminal court cases. How can voters, many with low education levels, make an informed decision when no analysis and criticism of proposed policies is available?

Your point B is inappropriate for Thailand, the PM is selected by MPs.

Edited January 1, 2014 by JRSoul

[truk39]

<snip>

Election postponement possible if parties agree: EC

<snip>

_ The number of MPs is less than 95 per cent of 500 - the compulsory figure that is needed for the House of Representatives to convene (according to Article 93 of the Constitution).

<snip>

This one doesn't make sense. Wouldn't that imply that the election has already taken place, therefore can't be postponed.

In the context of the 2007 constitution, the term "election" refers to the EC announcing and certifying the result of the vote count. It is at this point that the MPs are "elected". Receiving ballots of the citizenry is termed "polling" or just "poll". So, at the end of the poll date the votes are counted, if the EC finds issue with the resulting number of MPs, it can announce a new election for one or more constituencies. (http://www.isaanlawyers.com/constitution%20thailand%202007%20-%202550.pdf & http://www.elections-lebanon.org/elections/docs_6_G_8_1_14.aspx)

[catterwell]

The five Election Commissioners are nominated by a seven-member Selection Committee - five from various Courts plus the President of the House of Representatives and the Leader of the Opposition. The latter two positions are currently vacant, but the remaining five Selection Committee members is enough for a quorum. The five nominees are endorsed by the Senate, after which the Senate President sends the names for Royal appointment. The five Election Commissioners then vote among themselves to elect a Chairman.

Normally the Senate cannot be convened while the lower house if dissolved, but exceptions are allowed, including this case.

[shiok]

EC Chairman warns government about pushing for elections

.After speaking with the government, Mr. Supachai urged those who said they loved the country to actually stand by their words and start helping each other find a solution to the political deadlock for the benefit of the people.

-- NNT 2013-12-31

A good start would be if Mr Supachai actually did the job he was appointed for!!

Use whatever means needed, the police or the army, and make the registration happen, so the elections can go ahead!!

Stop bending over (Thainess) for an undemocratic madman and his rent-a-mob!!

Time for an inactive post??

when you say 'rent-a-mob' you are absolutely clueless of the protester. They are the 'reds' where the rent applies, the protesters are doing it for the sake of their country, so if YL really cares for Thailand just have the reform before the election, so simple, ie. she/they have no ulterior motives!!

[dukebowling]

An unelected governing body that is not corrupt???…that is a good joke!

Corruption existis in politics no matter what. The key is to minimize it. The way to do this is by making the path into power by a representative election (popular vote). Anytime you introduce an appointment by a small group or person, you introduce additional elements of coercion either by lobbying, intimidation or bribery. Not to mention the unfair element in obtaining an advantageous power position relative to the ability of your peers.

It is time to stop the coup cycle and generate a democratic cycle like this:

A. Have an election

B. People pick their leader

B. Let the governing body make it's mistakes,

C. Government improves and learns from it's mistakes

D. See A.

The alternative is continue with history:

A. Coup the government

B. Create a new constitution and non elected government

C. Majority party and country protests

D. Non-elected government agrees to have an election

E. People pick their leader and previous government loses power

F. Government makes mistakes

F. The minority party protests

G. See A.

The first option makes a whole lot more sense.

Don't you agree that before A you should have in place an appropriate set of checks and balances to prevent the corruption being currently exhibited? Why does a government learn from its mistakes if they are intentional and there are no repercussions?

At the moment, we have a non-elected person convicted of corruption in office dictating government policy and being given access to cabinet meetings. If he is using information gained from this to further his business interests, and how could he not, this is a conspiracy to allow insider trading even if no other laws are broken.

We also have a government proposing populist policy with no accounting of its costs and benefits. We also have ridiculous defamation laws which could see criticism of such policy leading to criminal court cases. How can voters, many with low education levels, make an informed decision when no analysis and criticism of proposed policies is available?

Your point B is inappropriate for Thailand, the PM is selected by MPs.

People essentially pick their leader by voting in the MP's of that party. Then the no 1 candidate usually gets chosen as PM.

Repercussions are not getting voted in the next election. This is the most important and should be the most feared consequence.

What evidence is there that Thaksin is using information illegally to further business interests? Only facts, not conjecture can be used for criminal cases.

There is plenty of analysis Ad Nauseam including other forums and media coverage.

I agree the defamation laws need to be revised to include extended freedom of speech.

Thai voters do not have low education levels. The literacy rate is 92.6%. Also, the level of education does determine a competency in choosing a leader. As I have said before democracy is a slow crawl in it's evolution. Especially in a country that has not given it a chance.