Is Thailand really the 3rd worst for road casualities on the planet ?

[retiredat50]

I'm from Manila. Not one minute goes by on the road without me hearing drivers honking. They are the most impatient drivers I have seen in my life, they change from lane to lane every 15 seconds. They seem to think God will save them from an accident. The taxi drivers as far as I can tell always work a full 24 hours on and 24 hours off.

Is it possible that Thai roads are worse or did nobody bother to check out the Philippines to compare? Thai drivers seem patient in traffic although some taxis seem to drive as possible when the roads are clear.

[kkerry]

Thailand wins. It has more motorbikes, especially when comparing Bangkok with Manila, and the majority of road deaths in Thailand are motorbike related. There is a Canadian show called "Don't drive here" There was an episode for Bangkok and one for Manila. I'll let you guess which city the host had an accident in...

[retiredat50]

Thailand wins. It has more motorbikes, especially when comparing Bangkok with Manila, and the majority of road deaths in Thailand are motorbike related. There is a Canadian show called "Don't drive here" There was an episode for Bangkok and one for Manila. I'll let you guess which city the host had an accident in...

Now I understand. Here in the Philippines almost nobody can afford a motorbike and the few I do see seem to be wearing a helmet usually.

[thailandbeachisland]

Even motorbikes are too expensive in Phils ? I understand why all Filipinos want to escape their country !

[Thai at Heart]

3rd or 4th or 10th who cares.

It's enough to say the driving is awful and the roads are extremely dangerous.

[bonobo]

In Manila, the traffic is worse than in Bangkok, and in the countryside, FIlipino drivers often drive with a sense of abandon, but they tend to follow the rules of the road (mostly). Red lights mean stop, and they drive in the correct lane.

In Thailand, driving rules are often ignored, driving the wrong way facing oncoming traffic is common, and, as one poster pointed out, there are far more motorcycles.

[wxpwzrd]

Probably higher - second or first. Thailand reports their death numbers differently. From what I understand, Thailand only reports deaths at the accident scene. If they make it to an ambulance and die in the hospital, those numbers are not reported.

[Kerryd]

Those stats, like many others (crime, etc) have to be taken with a grain of salt (i.e. a bit of consideration) as there are no doubt many, many countries in the world with far worse stats than Thailand.

However, reporting "standards" (or reports at all) are at best incomplete (or non-existent) and at worst, heavily "doctored" by various authorities than have a vested interest in making things look better than they really are. "Western" (or perhaps "First World") countries tend to be a little more honest with reporting such matters.

[bushwacker]

Dead is dead!

[Barney R]

Those stats, like many others (crime, etc) have to be taken with a grain of salt (i.e. a bit of consideration) as there are no doubt many, many countries in the world with far worse stats than Thailand.

However, reporting "standards" (or reports at all) are at best incomplete (or non-existent) and at worst, heavily "doctored" by various authorities than have a vested interest in making things look better than they really are. "Western" (or perhaps "First World") countries tend to be a little more honest with reporting such matters.

And you know this how ? Which countries ? You have definitive proof ?

[GuestHouse]

Probably higher - second or first. Thailand reports their death numbers differently. From what I understand, Thailand only reports deaths at the accident scene. If they make it to an ambulance and die in the hospital, those numbers are not reported.

Not quite but almost.

Deaths at the roadside or in main public hospitals are reported.

Deaths at branch public hospitals, private hospitals or clinics are not reported.

[i claudius]

Off the point ,but you mentioned honking their horns all the time ,well i have spent a lot of time in Italy and thats all they ever do ,i believe if your horn is broken you can no longer drive a car as for accidents ,well here in THailand there is no proper test ,no proper policing ,no rules ,no regs and most are of the opinion that they are in the right and Bhudda will protect them ,so what else can you expect?

[bangon04]

Off the point ,but you mentioned honking their horns all the time ,well i have spent a lot of time in Italy and thats all they ever do ,i believe if your horn is broken you can no longer drive a car as for accidents ,well here in THailand there is no proper test ,no proper policing ,no rules ,no regs and most are of the opinion that they are in the right and Bhudda will protect them ,so what else can you expect?

I think in Thailand they have plenty of rules and regulations and traffic laws. What they appear to lack is an effective or even crudely competent traffic enforcement police. So in the "Land of the Free" they feel perfectly entitled to do whatever they feel like without consequences beyond an occasional irritating bribe to a Royal Thai Policemen.

And yes, many do put their lives in the hands of a lucky charm or the blessing of a dubious monk, preferring this to the burden of personal, collective and social responsibility.

And many expats are content with their "freedom". After all, many escaped a police / nanny state to live in Thailand. So occasionally being killed by a drunk Thai driver is a small price to pay for this Freedom.

Edited January 1, 2014 by bangon04

[harrry]

Probably not the third worst. Here only people who die on the scene are counted as road fatilities. World dtandard for statistics include people who die within 3 months of the accident as a result of it.

[spidermike007]

I do not know anything about the law enforcement in the Philippines. But, in Thailand it is almost non existent, and the court system is equally impotent. There is no deterrent here. People drive like madmen, kids drive motorcycles, people drive without helmets, four people on one scooter, etc, etc. In places like Samui the police are completely absent from their jobs. Completely. Rumor has it that up to 60 people die on Samui every month, from road accidents, the majority of them being motorbikes. The authorities refuse too let the figures be published. It is just too embarrassing to them, as it allows the world to see they are doing NOTHING. On many levels sometimes it does appear Thailand is going backwards in time. Thailand strives to be number one in road accidents. Some do not seem to understand being number one is not always good.

[CPH]

Normally the speed in The Phillipines is very low due to poor roads and heavy traffic. In Thailand the speed is very high and people have no patience at all. That's the reason for the poor statistics.

[blazes]

Off the point ,but you mentioned honking their horns all the time ,well i have spent a lot of time in Italy and thats all they ever do ,i believe if your horn is broken you can no longer drive a car as for accidents ,well here in THailand there is no proper test ,no proper policing ,no rules ,no regs and most are of the opinion that they are in the right and Bhudda will protect them ,so what else can you expect?

I think in Thailand they have plenty of rules and regulations and traffic laws. What they appear to lack is an effective or even crudely competent traffic enforcement police. So in the "Land of the Free" they feel perfectly entitled to do whatever they feel like without consequences beyond an occasional irritating bribe to a Royal Thai Policemen.

And yes, many do put their lives in the hands of a lucky charm or the blessing of a dubious monk, preferring this to the burden of personal, collective and social responsibility.

And many expats are content with their "freedom". After all, many escaped a police / nanny state to live in Thailand. So occasionally being killed by a drunk Thai driver is a small price to pay for this Freedom.

"Occasionally being killed"?/????? Trouble is, one doesn't have the opportunity to be "occasionally" killed.

[Ulic]

I have driven in over 60 countries world wide. For me Thailand has the worst drivers I have ever seen.

My brother says in Vietnam the drivers are worse. I have not been there yet. I believe the statistics are

bad here because Thailand is moving slowly from basically just scooters and a few cars to even more

scooters and significantly more cars. Most of the car drivers have little experience driving cars. While

in North America and Europe most people get there drivers licence/learners permit at 16 here most

people get their drivers licence to become taxi/commercial drivers at age 25 or 30. Little experience

and no understanding of driving for conditions. The scooter drivers are bowling pins and young 14 -18

year old scooter drivers have the invincibility of youth. Not so invincible. As long as police are not

interested in enforcing driving laws other than to collect tea money, the standard of driving will only

improve slowly as more drivers get more experience. The small fines do not get drivers to eliminate

poor habits, speeding, not signalling lane changes, red light runners, driving against traffic, not wearing

helmets, DUI, among the biggest problems.

[NoshowJones]

Off the point ,but you mentioned honking their horns all the time ,well i have spent a lot of time in Italy and thats all they ever do ,i believe if your horn is broken you can no longer drive a car as for accidents ,well here in THailand there is no proper test ,no proper policing ,no rules ,no regs and most are of the opinion that they are in the right and Bhudda will protect them ,so what else can you expect?

I find that honking horns in Thailand hardly ever happens, except maybe the Baht buses in Pattaya, and that's only because they are looking for fares. The Thai drivers are far more likely to flash their lights.

[NoshowJones]

Off the point ,but you mentioned honking their horns all the time ,well i have spent a lot of time in Italy and thats all they ever do ,i believe if your horn is broken you can no longer drive a car as for accidents ,well here in THailand there is no proper test ,no proper policing ,no rules ,no regs and most are of the opinion that they are in the right and Bhudda will protect them ,so what else can you expect?

I think in Thailand they have plenty of rules and regulations and traffic laws. What they appear to lack is an effective or even crudely competent traffic enforcement police. So in the "Land of the Free" they feel perfectly entitled to do whatever they feel like without consequences beyond an occasional irritating bribe to a Royal Thai Policemen.

And yes, many do put their lives in the hands of a lucky charm or the blessing of a dubious monk, preferring this to the burden of personal, collective and social responsibility.

And many expats are content with their "freedom". After all, many escaped a police / nanny state to live in Thailand. So occasionally being killed by a drunk Thai driver is a small price to pay for this Freedom.

Occasionally????

[NoshowJones]

Normally the speed in The Phillipines is very low due to poor roads and heavy traffic. In Thailand the speed is very high and people have no patience at all. That's the reason for the poor statistics.

I think drivers who drive too slow are also the cause of many accidents in Thailand, and there are plenty of them.

[rotary]

It seems we have several countries trying to be #1 in road deaths, Saudi claims they are #1, several others claim they are #1. I guess that is alright as the countries are trying to show their people how high their death rate is from driving but I wonder who is really #1?

[tigermonkey]

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that Thailand has a very high number of scooters. This is not merely a problem of too many scooters, but a deeper problem of how a Thai usually learns to drive. At age 10 or so, most Thais allow their children to teach themselves how to ride a scooter, without guidance or instruction - my brother-in-laws kids both learned this way.

When they are older and purchase a car/pickup, they merely continue the same bad techniques behind the wheel. They have little sense of the length and width of the vehicle, thinking it is just like their motorcy. As they did on their scooter, they don't use rear view mirrors, drive on the wrong side of the road, ignore red lights and pass without thinking of conditions around them. Every day you see drivers who come to turn left at a main intersection, don't stop and merely slide out onto the shoulder of the main road to hopefully continue their journey.. Most of the atrocious behavior while turning right is an exact copy of the things they did on their scooter, without concern for lanes or the size of the vehicle.

Next time you see a Thai driver do something that leaves you shaking your head, ask yourself, " Would he have learned to do that driving a scooter?". The answer is usually "Yes".

Edited January 1, 2014 by tigermonkey

[CIHUAHUA]

Well, at least in the RP people drive on the correct side of the road as long as you grease the side of your car to squeeze through the traffic.

[bbbbooboo]

All we need to know is that driving on Thai roads is dangerous every day of the year and I would suggest that during the new year period it is lethal

[Thai at Heart]

Those stats, like many others (crime, etc) have to be taken with a grain of salt (i.e. a bit of consideration) as there are no doubt many, many countries in the world with far worse stats than Thailand.

However, reporting "standards" (or reports at all) are at best incomplete (or non-existent) and at worst, heavily "doctored" by various authorities than have a vested interest in making things look better than they really are. "Western" (or perhaps "First World") countries tend to be a little more honest with reporting such matters.

And you know this how ? Which countries ? You have definitive proof ?

I'll dig out the quote if you really want but it is noted on the reports that in the uk and most western countries, that their standard is for any death within 30 days of the accident to be attributed to the accident.

Thailand uses a different standard that would serve to reduce the reported amount of deaths significantly.

[recom273]

Someone mentioned Vietnam. Cars havent been available for that long, they are still expensive and way out of reach for your average Joe.

The roads were pretty bad, It goes from extremes, roads / lanes that arent wide enough to accommodate modern tour buses but at times you can use the 4 lane motorway out of Hanoi and find your the only person on it. Sometimes you see a major trunk road on a map, and go to use it, you find its still a compressed mud road with passing places.

Yeah, they are loud, they are scary drivers with regard to tailgating, overtaking and side swiping bikes, but they have an excuse .. and they will get there. Its very rare to see a Vietnamese riding a bike without a helmet for a start ( its almost a fashion to have a cool hellmet amongst the young ) I always put that down to a more effective police force. I was always told to keep a helmet on and received strange looks when i didn't.

Thailand doesnt. Its just laziness to develop a decent road network, laziness to educate, laziness to adopt and police the system.

Edited January 1, 2014 by recom273

[VINCENT2012]

Even if the roads are very VERY bad, they will never be as bad as the drivers who use them..!

GOOD DAY AND GOOD NIGHT

[partington]

If the statistics for Thailand really are distorted in a way that actually diminishes the apparent number of deaths due to road accidents, the figures must be truly appalling.

From numbers given on this interesting statistical collection website:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

Thailand is sixth in the world for road accident fatalities per 100,000 of the population (42.9) behind Iraq, Iran, Malawi, Swaziland and the winner, Namibia, with 53.4 deaths per 100,000.

I expect that if I die here it will be as a result of a motor bike accident, even though I don't and never will drive a car or a bike in Thailand, and never take motor cycle taxis.

I'll probably be in a 7-11, I'll have just opened the fridge cabinet to get a beer, when a motor cycle will unexpectedly drive out of it and crush me to death...

[bundoi]

No it's not, it's actually something like 79th - the figures from WHO can be googled.

I drive around 5,000 kilos a month in Thailand and in general my experience has been pretty favourable.

I have always found that a good percentage of expats in any country do like to complain about the country they're in (let's face it, they're the same kind of guys who complain incessantly at home too), and how-bad-the-driving-is is one of those things that can be guaranteed to provide instant bonding for them