Baking my own Bread and a bit more - how to start?

[MaaTini]

I am planning to make my own Bread and sell some too

I have practically no experience in baking, beside cakes

I do not want to use a baking machine

so how to start?

choosing the right oven?

where I will get my supply online in Thailand at a reasonalbe prize?

thanks for any input

[Ratsima]

You will get many opinions.

I bake bread every week for home use. My electric oven goes up to 275ºC, which is enough.

I bake the bread on a non-stick pizza pan. A bread stone would be better, but I haven't found one.

I use my own sourdough starter instead of yeast.

I buy the cheapest bread flour (high gluten flour) that I can find. I usually add whole wheat, dark rye, rolled oats and other grains.

I mix a very wet sponge which I allow to rise for three or four hours before kneading. This makes heavy kneading unnecessary.

I spray water in the 275º oven to increase humidity before putting the bread in. I spray several times during baking. I spray the loaf itself after removing from the oven. This gives a shiny, chewy crust.

If I'm baking bread for sandwiches I aim for a high loaf with a fine grain. This means a drier dough with more kneading.

If I'm baking bread to go with a meal, I aim for a flat loaf with big holes and chewy texture. This means a wetter dough and less kneading and a dough that's harder to handle because it's sticky.

The most important thing you can learn is the feel of the dough. It takes practice and some failure. Eventually you will know when the dough feels like it's ready to knead, ready to form into a loaf and ready for the oven.

My usual recipe is:

1 tsp salt

½ cup of sourdough starter (or 1 tbs yeast)

Two cups of flour (1½ cups of bread flour plus ½ cup of other flour)

Enough water to make a wet dough that is sticky to touch

When it's ready to knead I add enough flour to make the dough easy to handle.

Cooking time is usually around 25 minutes.

This makes on medium sized (20-25 cm) round loaf.

Have fun. You'll enjoy it.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Ratsima

[ExpatOilWorker]

Agree with the above. I place a cup of water in the corner of the oven to maintain humidity.

Try springle with poppy seeds or adding caraway seeds to make your bread more interesting.

[AjarnMartin]

You will get many opinions.

I bake bread every week for home use. My electric oven goes up to 275ºC, which is enough.

I bake the bread on a non-stick pizza pan. A bread stone would be better, but I haven't found one.

I use my own sourdough starter instead of yeast.

I buy the cheapest bread flour (high gluten flour) that I can find. I usually add whole wheat, dark rye, rolled oats and other grains.

I mix a very wet sponge which I allow to rise for three or four hours before kneading. This makes heavy kneading unnecessary.

I spray water in the 275º oven to increase humidity before putting the bread in. I spray several times during baking. I spray the loaf itself after removing from the oven. This gives a shiny, chewy crust.

If I'm baking bread for sandwiches I aim for a high loaf with a fine grain. This means a drier dough with more kneading.

If I'm baking bread to go with a meal, I aim for a flat loaf with big holes and chewy texture. This means a wetter dough and less kneading and a dough that's harder to handle because it's sticky.

The most important thing you can learn is the feel of the dough. It takes practice and some failure. Eventually you will know when the dough feels like it's ready to knead, ready to form into a loaf and ready for the oven.

My usual recipe is:

1 tsp salt

½ cup of sourdough starter (or 1 tbs yeast)

Two cups of flour (1½ cups of bread flour plus ½ cup of other flour)

Enough water to make a wet dough that is sticky to touch

When it's ready to knead I add enough flour to make the dough easy to handle.

Cooking time is usually around 25 minutes.

This makes on medium sized (20-25 cm) round loaf.

Have fun. You'll enjoy it.

Thanks Ratsima, you've given me a new, New Year's resolution. I love bread and so why not try to bake it yourself!

[Always18]

You'll have a very rewarding time baking your own bread - in common with many others on this forum, I've been producing bread for a number of years and there are probably as many different recipes for the "perfect" loaf as there are bakers!

Take as much advice as you can from as many posters as possible, distill it down to manageable proportions, then buy the best dried yeast you can find and off you go..............

BTW - bread machines are really good at taking all the effort out of dough mixing even if, like me, you then use a gas BBQ to produce the final loaf.

One interesting point I've discovered is that a sliced small/medium red onion added to the initial bread mix produces far better quality bread than an onion-free mix..........why? - I've absolutely no idea, but it works everytime.

Happy baking!

[HUAHIN62]

Agree with the above. If you use dry yeast add a tsp or two sugar to assist with rising of the bread. If you are lazy like me you use a bread machine, when you use the timer you can wake up to the smell of freshly baked bread. Ratsima have you tried to use a thick granite slab for a baking stone, I bought one from our local granite supplier (an off cut at a good price) and it works great for pizza's.

[recycler]

I used a recipe from a cold climate and that didn't work good, the yeast works too fast and than the bread is too compact, taste OK.

How long do you let it rise and do you knead 1 or 2 times?

[Ratsima]

I haven't tried a granite slab. I thought a proper bread stone had to be absorbent: terra cotta or sandstone.

I knead once after the dough has sat for three or four hours. I lightly knead when forming into a loaf.

[Trentham]

I was a pastry cook for 40 years and apart from patisserie, I made fancy breads - brioche, croissant, several different rolls and some fancy Swiss egg and milk loaf which was plaited and called zopf. So I have a few credentials.

I am retired now but still make my own bread. Don't be too fussed with what you do. Bread is the easiest thing to make. People tend to get worked up about it and try too hard. If you want to go to the bother of running a sour dough like Ratsime does that is OK and there is lots of info on the intenet about getting one started. If you can get hold of compressed yeast it is better than the dried stuff but the dried yeast is ok too. The sour dough starters available at the supermarket are not sour dough at all. They are just a con with dried yeast in them.

I don't even use a recipe. For 3 loaves I put about a teaspoonful of yeast into a bowl of about 2 cups of water at blood temperature - no warmer or you will destroy the yeast but cooler is ok but will take a bit longer to work. Into that I put enough plain flour to make a slurry and let it sit until it starts to bubble and rise.

Next I add some more water - maybe a cup or 2 and whatever else I feel like. For 3 loaves I use about 1 1/2 teaspoons of salt. More salt will give a better flavour but too much will retard the development of the yeast and really too much it will never rise at all. I add 20 - 30 grams of a fat [ butter, olive oil, margerine ] and next it can be wholemeal flour, plain flour, a bit of bran, a bit of oatmeal, a few linseeds or a bit of oat bran. If you can buy some gluten [ the protein in flour that give it its strength] you can add a teaspoon of that.

The next step is really important. You must knead it for about 20 minutes and it is hard work without a machine. If you have a mixer use the hook fitting and run at slow speed. The more you knead the dough the less sticky and more elastic it becomes and that is what you want.

When you start to knead, if the dough is too soft then add some flour and if it is too dry then add some more water.

When the kneading is finished let the dough rise and then give it a very short further kneading. Do that 2 or 3 times. Form your loaves and then proof them [ allowing the loaf to rise before baking them[.

I make mine in oblong tins, sometimes sprinkled with sesame or poppy seeds. I bake it in an old, small Electrolux oven at about 220 degrees for 15 minutes and then turn down the temp. to 200.

The last 5 minutes I tip it out of the tins and finish baking on the racks of the oven. It is baked when you rap it on the bottom and it sounds or feels hollow and firm.

Good luck and remember - don't worry, you can't do much that is wrong.

[Ratsima]

My favorite complex bread. You're invited to improvise. I always do.

Beer Bread

makes 2 loaves

the Beer Mixture

2 cups flat beer

1/2 cup cornmeal

2 Tablespoons butter

2 teaspoons salt

1/2 cup dark molasses

Pour beer into a small saucepan. Heat to steaming and remove from heat. Stir in next 4 ingredients. Set aside to cool.

the Yeast Mixture

1/2 cup warm water

4 1/2 teaspoon dry yeast (2 packages) or ½ cup sourdough starter

1 tablespoon sugar

Combine, stir, and let stand 10 minutes.

the Dry Ingredients

1 cup total wheat germ, wheat bran, rye or rolled oats

2 cups whole wheat flour

3 1/2 cups bread flour

Combine cooled beer mixture and yeast mixture in bowl of your stand mixer or a large mixing bowl. Add wheat germ, wheat bran, and whole wheat flour. Mix until fully incorporated. Add unbleached flour, one cup at a time, kneading to incorporate fully before adding more. Stop after 2 cups and test the dough. It should be moist but not sticky. If it is still sticky, add flour cautiously, 1/2 cup at a time. Avoid adding too much flour, it can become very heavy and tough. Knead dough for 10 minutes by hand or in mixer (less time- 5 minutes or so) until the dough is smooth and elastic. Place dough ball in an oiled bowl. Cover and allow to rise 1 hour.

Punch down and let rise 45 minutes. Sprinkle 2 greased cooking sheet with cornmeal. Punch down dough, divide in half and form 2 8-inch rounds. Place on cornmeal-topped pans. Cover and let rise 40 minutes. Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Brush top with egg white mixed with 1 tablespoon of water (for a nice shiny crust). Use a sharp knife to cut a # shape on the top of the loaves.

Bake for 40 minutes until bread is browned and sounds hollow when you knock on the bottom. Place on a cooling rack to cool.

[Chicken George]

Make whole wheat rolls. They slwsys seem to turn out well. Get a good mixer somewhere like Robinsons as they eill honour warranty. Good luck

[Trentham]

If you go up Sukhumwit Soi 33 to the carpark, then on the opposite side of the carpark there is a baker and pastrycook wholesalers outlet. They have tins, flour and probably yeast and gluten as well.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I used a recipe from a cold climate and that didn't work good, the yeast works too fast and than the bread is too compact, taste OK.

How long do you let it rise and do you knead 1 or 2 times?

Make sure you cover the bread with a damp towel away from aircon airflow when u let it rise.

[ChopperRay]

Make bread most days.

Get all supplies from Big C and other large Supermarkets. I buy all mine in Rayong.

Use the No Kneed Bead making way to make my bread.

I use a fry pan, to make mine.

I use this way as shown by Steve on You-Tube.

He as many ways and types of bread you can make. All ways work.

Use the link below to his Recipe.PM if you need further information or details.

Bought Oven at locally.

http:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8aNeDwn2o/

This video is designed for those of you who don't have Dutch ovens. I will discuss and demonstrate how you can bake no-knead bread on a cookie sheet, in a pie plate or a skillet.By Steave. Has great Videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/artisanbreadwithstev?feature=watch

Hope this help you and others interested in Bread Making. Very easy this way.

Regards

Ray

Comment from U-Tube

I have a new cast iron skillet that I am seasoning and I love bread making so thought I would try this recipe. It was easy to make and turned out wonderful. Chewy with a great flavor. Thumbs up with this recipe. Definitely will be making this again. I also loved how it just slid out of the skillet when it was done ... perfectly baked! Oh, and I got to use my new dough hook to mix everything up with. Had fun in the kitchen today!

Edited January 1, 2014 by ChopperRay

[jpduggan]

You will get many opinions.

I bake bread every week for home use. My electric oven goes up to 275ºC, which is enough.

I bake the bread on a non-stick pizza pan. A bread stone would be better, but I haven't found one.

I use my own sourdough starter instead of yeast.

I buy the cheapest bread flour (high gluten flour) that I can find. I usually add whole wheat, dark rye, rolled oats and other grains.

I mix a very wet sponge which I allow to rise for three or four hours before kneading. This makes heavy kneading unnecessary.

I spray water in the 275º oven to increase humidity before putting the bread in. I spray several times during baking. I spray the loaf itself after removing from the oven. This gives a shiny, chewy crust.

If I'm baking bread for sandwiches I aim for a high loaf with a fine grain. This means a drier dough with more kneading.

If I'm baking bread to go with a meal, I aim for a flat loaf with big holes and chewy texture. This means a wetter dough and less kneading and a dough that's harder to handle because it's sticky.

The most important thing you can learn is the feel of the dough. It takes practice and some failure. Eventually you will know when the dough feels like it's ready to knead, ready to form into a loaf and ready for the oven.

My usual recipe is:

1 tsp salt

½ cup of sourdough starter (or 1 tbs yeast)

Two cups of flour (1½ cups of bread flour plus ½ cup of other flour)

Enough water to make a wet dough that is sticky to touch

When it's ready to knead I add enough flour to make the dough easy to handle.

Cooking time is usually around 25 minutes.

This makes on medium sized (20-25 cm) round loaf.

Have fun. You'll enjoy it.

This is one of the best replies I've seen to any query. Loads of information...well done

[pizzachang]

I use my pizza oven and make 3 or 4 loaves at once. Many recipes and finding an oven may be the biggest hurdle. [Ajarn Martin - do you leave your starter outside the refrigerator? Did you start originally just letting flour & water ferment? I used to have an awesome starter in Alaska but haven't tried it here]

[phutoie2]

Most of the replies on here are about making a few loaves / rolls for personal use. If you want to bake bread and sell it in largish volumes to sell, well that is a different ball game.

Bakers work in metric, kgs grams, ml. etc. Pick a bread type that is simple to make, white loaf/ baguettes. Master the basic four ingredients first. Flour, water, yeast salt before moving onto other recipes. Thailand being a very hot country presents a few extra problems for bakers. Purchase some decent equipment and use good ingredients. You can buy some good flour and yeast here, there are specialist shops around.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[phutoie2]

My post above was somehow posted before I finished. I still make bread every week and sell to Thais and expats, you will not get rich, its hard work and get used to starting early! But it does have its rewards.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ETatBKK]

HAPPY NEW YEAR folks !

I am absolutely a beginner of making bread. share with you my failure just yesterday while preparing a 1kg focaccia for the family new year eve dinner party. the dough was too wet and too sticky ( with bread flour ), even adding and adding flour into the mixture.

it is really fun of making bread, but at the same time is really frustrated when failed. my hands were stuck with the wet dough and I couldn't run other tasks in the kitchen. my party completely spoiled.

yes, definitely more practice, and more practice - my simple new year resolution !

[islandguy]

Tried the no knead style two weeks ago, amazingly it does work. I'm used to (long ago) the regular kneading process and enjoyed that, but the no knead is well worth a try.

[pennine]

Back in Johannesburg I used to buy Portuguese bread which was really good. If trying to make it, what is different to the basic recipe?

[Hillman321]

Simplest Bread

454 gm (3 1/2 cups - 1 pound) bread flour (high gluten)

237 gm (1 cup - 8 oz) water

15 gm (2 tsp) bread yeast

7 gm (1 tsp) salt

Proof the yeast - heat water to 40 C (100-110 F) add yeast and 1 cup flour (2 tsp sugar optional). Mix and set aside for 5-10 minutes. The mixture should become foamy.

Put rest of flour in bowl. Add proofed yeast and salt. Mix until the flour becomes a ball. Dump out on floured surface and knead for 5-7 minutes. As the gluten forms the texture will change. Put back into mixing bowl. Cover with damp towel to prevent outer layer from drying.

Let rise until the volume doubles. (time varies because of temperature). Dump out and knead once more. Shape into loaves or put in bread pan. Let rise until doubled again.

Bake at 200 C or 400 F.

Bread must REST like meat before slicing.

Other flours can be used but at least one cup of bread flour is needed if you want the bread to rise.

The salt slows the yeast to prevent the BIG holes of gas in the bread.

A pan of water in the bottom of the oven will soften the crust.

Other ingredients can be added but require modifications of the basic recipe.

The simplest bread is flour, water, yeast and salt.

[Hillman321]

HAPPY NEW YEAR folks !

I am absolutely a beginner of making bread. share with you my failure just yesterday while preparing a 1kg focaccia for the family new year eve dinner party. the dough was too wet and too sticky ( with bread flour ), even adding and adding flour into the mixture.

it is really fun of making bread, but at the same time is really frustrated when failed. my hands were stuck with the wet dough and I couldn't run other tasks in the kitchen. my party completely spoiled.

yes, definitely more practice, and more practice - my simple new year resolution !

Flour requires TIME to absorb the water. That is one reason for the two rise times. After the first, the bread will feel drier.

[fredge45]

What a wonderful topic to start the year...

The other respondents have covered the fun of making bread very well so I won't add much.

Keep away from the little bread making "machines". They work on a timer rather than what you can see and touch. Have never had a decent piece of bread from one of the things.

Use of a slab of granite, purchased at a reasonable cost from a granite shop, is just the only way to go. It can be used as a pizza stone as well of course. Seems to be some back n forth on whether to use the polished side or the unpolished. I've been using my slab for over 10 years, polished side. The items being baked are placed on baking parchment so there's no direct contact with the granite.

I buy my bread flour by the 10 kg case usually at Makro - better price than other outlets I've checked.

If you are going with yeast (I do mainly sourdough), make sure your yeast is the low sugar type - there are 2 types usually sold.

Enjoy the making and eating!

Edited January 2, 2014 by fredge45

[streetlite]

I have the problem of getting the nice crusty brown shell on the rolls and even the pizza dough. I have a large (toaster) oven that goes to 250C. I've used my granite stone (preheated), used a baking sheet and even just the oven racks but I cannot get that golden brown shell. Is it the oven?

[chuenyongman]

Hi, All you bakers. I have been using a bread machine for about 4 years in Thailand. I am the only person in the house that eats bread. I would appreciate some advice that would give my bread a longer life. it goes a little moldy after 3 or 4 days. Also when I cut a normal slice from the loaf ( unless it is a thick one) it tends to fall to bits. I have tried wheat flour and bread flour and mixed them together 50/50 with no different results. Thank you for any suggestions.

[recycler]

Thanks for great advice from the experts!

For the oven I bought an electric oven at Makro for about 14K Baht, works really good for many dishes including pizza and does 5 kg of spareribs at once.

My advise is if you can to put the oven outside, it will heat your kitchen if indoors, much more comfortable to have it outside.

No need for an expensive stone or pan, I bought a red round flat garden stone at 80 Baht a garden center and before when I used a smaller built-in oven we used a 18 Baht concrete tile. Both work great for pizza and bread.

[slipperylobster]

Miss my little japanese bread making machine. I would put all the ingredients in just before I slept and set the timer. The coffee machine was synchronized to auto start at exactly the same time the bread finished. I had the bee hive fireplace in the kitchen prepped as well. My alarm clock became moot, as I would wake up as soon as that bread started baking and that, along with the smell of hot coffee, was my new alarm system. I enjoyed it very much. Whipped up fluffy butter mixtures of different flavors and had several small containers of various jams and jellies. Wow. Have not yet looked for a bread machine here, so if anyone knows... Big C and Lotus says "no haaave". I was just going to ask the bakery in Big C to sell me the dough before they baked it. (for pizza). The french bread is only 30 baht, and I would pay the same just to have them not bake it.

[pizzachang]

I have the problem of getting the nice crusty brown shell on the rolls and even the pizza dough. I have a large (toaster) oven that goes to 250C. I've used my granite stone (preheated), used a baking sheet and even just the oven racks but I cannot get that golden brown shell. Is it the oven?

I'd say your oven isn't hot enough. I have a "point & read" thermometer and also a direct reading one installed in the pizza oven door. Top heat turns the top of the loaf brown - I cook loaves in 15 - 20 minutes. I would check your oven temp with a separate thermometer. It may not be as hot as you think or too much heat is escaping.

[pizzachang]

Hi, All you bakers. I have been using a bread machine for about 4 years in Thailand. I am the only person in the house that eats bread. I would appreciate some advice that would give my bread a longer life. it goes a little moldy after 3 or 4 days. Also when I cut a normal slice from the loaf ( unless it is a thick one) it tends to fall to bits. I have tried wheat flour and bread flour and mixed them together 50/50 with no different results. Thank you for any suggestions.

Knead the bread longer to get better texture. Be sure to use hard winter wheat flour. The whole wheat flour sold may be soft wheat - no way to tell and that won't make good bread. 3-4 days sounds about right if you bag the bread w/ any residual heat and store outside the refrigerator. Lots of molds in the air here. I store mine in the fridge after 2 days sitting out. Texture will change and become more crumbly as time goes on. Tougher bread is made by rising a 'slurry' or sponge and letting it age a bit, then add another teaspoon of yeast, more flour to make the dough and knead like hell. The breadmaker type of bread is good too - just eat it up fast.