People's uprising about to reach 'critical mass': Thai opinion

[Chupup]

Suthep accountants must be very busy, filling out payee list of protesters @ 300 baht per day, plus health and life insurance. I wonder how many come from the South and how many really come from Bangkok will be the hard core protesters and not just weekend warriors.

And of course you have proof of this, i do not think so, you are just a troll and not a good one at that.

[Bakseeda]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Open your eyes and get a life....what is it you ask.. One person one vote for one 500baht note...

[soi41]

..Mostly overall a good article and a fair assessment IMHO.

.

And we are criticizing the Thai "educational" system for not encouraging critical thinking!

[Bakseeda]

The reason behind this movement has really always been an emotionally charged one - the disgust over Thaksin's iron grip on the affairs of this country for his own personal gain. There is no sector of Thai society that is unaware of that, or even denies it, albeit privately. But it has become so pervasive it has essentially strangled the administration, with rampant corruption that it can no longer hold or even contain. It is just spilling out all over the place. It is collapsing from within. The people have never felt empowered to deal with the machinations of administrative power. It has mainly been a passive resignation. Passivity has been Thaksin's greatest asset. But the amnesty bill changed all that. And the people are discovering - much to their surprise - that they had the power to express themselves all along. And they are jubilant with that new-found power.

Strangely, the people I speak with are far from jubilant as you put it. they may not like Thaksin but they can't abide Suthep and loather what he stands for.They are enraged by being blackmailed by the minority of protesters planning to stop them going about their business.

Obviously you are speaking to the wrong peoples.... speak to some tax-payers.. you certainly do not live in Bangkok..

[alant]

Nobody knows the outcome, but the scene could turn ugly

Thaksin has access to large offshore wealth and (imo) also has money backers. If he starts handing out large payments to people in the North, to mobilise and march on the capital the scene will be far worse than in 2010, because this time PTP were elected then toppled, thus making their supporters far angrier. Obviously some of their support is based on bribes and broken promises, and many PTP supporters were starting to criticise PTP in recent months, but I feel they would still be offended that their cast votes have been discounted by one man in a jogging suit and a whistle. If the money incentive to march is there, we may see a mass exodus from the North and I fear that the events of 2010 will be a picnic by comparison.

I am sure that all other politicians and would be politicians, even those revolutionary ones are stoney broke and simple cannot match the mega wealth of "The Family"...

[Tatsujin]

The reason behind this movement has really always been an emotionally charged one - the disgust over Thaksin's iron grip on the affairs of this country for his own personal gain. There is no sector of Thai society that is unaware of that, or even denies it, albeit privately. But it has become so pervasive it has essentially strangled the administration, with rampant corruption that it can no longer hold or even contain. It is just spilling out all over the place. It is collapsing from within. The people have never felt empowered to deal with the machinations of administrative power. It has mainly been a passive resignation. Passivity has been Thaksin's greatest asset. But the amnesty bill changed all that. And the people are discovering - much to their surprise - that they had the power to express themselves all along. And they are jubilant with that new-found power.

Strangely, the people I speak with are far from jubilant as you put it. they may not like Thaksin but they can't abide Suthep and loather what he stands for.They are enraged by being blackmailed by the minority of protesters planning to stop them going about their business.

Strangely, the people I speak with are also far from jubilant as you put it. they may not like Suthep but they can't abide Thaksin and loathe what he stands for.They are enraged at having the Govt stealing money left, right and center and doing things solely for the benefit of a man they didn't elect.

[jpeg]

Suthep accountants must be very busy, filling out payee list of protesters @ 300 baht per day, plus health and life insurance. I wonder how many come from the South and how many really come from Bangkok will be the hard core protesters and not just weekend warriors.

The yellow thugs are trucked from the south.

The gentle old ladies with beautiful hairstyles that The Nation likes to show in its biased articles are most probably from bangkok. These are not the warriors though...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

'Yellow thugs'??? From my personal experience it was those clad in Red hurling molotov cocktails/burning malls down/taking over hospitals. Do please give your personal experience of the Yellows' 'thuggery'? No? thought not . .

Edited January 3, 2014 by ubonjoe
flame removed

[soi41]

The reason behind this movement has really always been an emotionally charged one - the disgust over Thaksin's iron grip on the affairs of this country for his own personal gain. There is no sector of Thai society that is unaware of that, or even denies it, albeit privately. But it has become so pervasive it has essentially strangled the administration, with rampant corruption that it can no longer hold or even contain. It is just spilling out all over the place. It is collapsing from within. The people have never felt empowered to deal with the machinations of administrative power. It has mainly been a passive resignation. Passivity has been Thaksin's greatest asset. But the amnesty bill changed all that. And the people are discovering - much to their surprise - that they had the power to express themselves all along. And they are jubilant with that new-found power.

Strangely, the people I speak with are far from jubilant as you put it. they may not like Thaksin but they can't abide Suthep and loather what he stands for.They are enraged by being blackmailed by the minority of protesters planning to stop them going about their business.

Obviously you are speaking to the wrong peoples.... speak to some tax-payers.. you certainly do not live in Bangkok..

"Speak to some taxpayers"

A rare specie in Thailand! The dodo-bird springs to mind!!

So if you are going to have a government voted in by the taxpayers, you are going have a government based on the smallest minority in the history of the world!

And don't believe for one second, that Amart pay tax!

[craigt3365]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Umm, because he has the support of the people. Did you see the pictures of the protests? It wasn't just him there standing on stage alone.

This isn't about Suthep. It's about getting the Shin clan out, more corrupt and failed politicians as you so well put it. They all need to go.

He has the the support of the minority of people.

Actually, a majority of the people did NOT vote for PTP. They voted for a variety of other political parties.

[jpeg]

If the uprising is so powerful, why don't they just win the elections?

Have you been following any of the multitude of articles/opinion pieces et al spelling out for you why this is so? Or do you simply come on to TV and give your uneducated opinion after a night of gabbing with the chaps down Soi Cowboy?

[soi41]

If the uprising is so powerful, why don't they just win the elections?

The country is ruled by "The Planet of the Apes".

The monkeys must first be reeducated, via the siege of BKK, in Suthepology.

Reforms must take place by the Maoist "people's council" to effect changes so that the "BKK elite" can win a vote.

That's an understatement, 'cause even apes have more brains than BOTH lunatics on each oppositional parties....

.

Just to clarify, are you talking about Thai people or Thaivisa-posters??

Never mind, in either case you are right!!

[chooka]

If the uprising is so powerful, why don't they just win the elections?

Because they are the few, the minority a small band of nutcases who will overthrow the majority.

[animatic]

Far too many in vain attempts to spin this as so much ado about Suthep,

and so little ado about the people actually getting out in huge numbers to protest, lead by Suthep and many others.

This is far more than about one man and his cronies, going after another to remove him from power.

But the only way to make it seem less 'the will of the people' fed up with a 'failing regime of criminal intent',

and more an 'elitists power play, is to focus on Suthep as nutcase, or crony, or vengeful, etc, etc.

Gee I wonder who would benefit from making Suthep look bad, and label all in the rally crony opportunists?

Oh yes, the other sides Thaksin-crony opportunists. Suthep could call to the people all he wanted to,

but they wouldn't come unless THEY wanted to...

Edited January 3, 2014 by animatic

[jonclark]

The idea of 1 person 1 vote as an electoral panacea to Thailand ills is far to simplistic - both sides have been shown that with sufficient financial backing that this ideal is easily manipulated and corrupted.

And that is part of the problem, democracy or rather our western concept of democracy, for whatever multitude of reasons is a corrupted, broken system. It doesn't work here or at least not yet. Thai politicians simply have found a way to cheat the system and eventually the system fails and breaks as people get bored with the cheating and politicians who have become bigger and more important than the democratic system they claim to support, when in fact they actually run and control our democracy.

I'm not condoning Suthep but it seems there are two choices; maintain the current broken and corrupted democratic system. Or dismantle it and rebuild it and start again. And I'm sure all of us have our own views on what the possible consequences of each will be.

Maybe in 20 years Thailand will have matured enough and we will look back on the past 10 years as a period of 'growing pains for Thailand's democracy.

Edit - spelling

So what do you propose to replace democracy with ?

Replacing democracy is the wrong question.There needs to be some serous tweaking with the system. Starting with the MPs

I would start with abolishing immunity for MPs. Why do MPs need immunity? Immunity attracts dishonesty and criminality as it provides protection for their actions which often subvert the course of justice. MP - our leaders - should not need immunity as they should act to uphold the law in spirit and action.

Next do some serious legal amendment to the 'defamation' law. Often used as a weapon to silence critics whilst MP hid from behind their castle of parliamentary immunity. - I can hit you legally but you can't hit me back so to speak

Next - Freedom of speech in all aspects, so the media is free in all aspects from political interference and political censorship. So journalists can investigate our MPs and report back to the people/

Finally - Freedom of information - So MP and governments can hid information from the public under vague 'national security' banners.

The bigger issues of health, education,distribution of wealth etc all need addressing in good time

Most problems occur as MP are untouchable once into office and can do what they want. By the time the law catches up with them most of the evidence has been lost, destroyed, forgotten or bribed away and so they can continue. Which they do by cheating democratic system at election time with ridiculous promises, which they are then free to get away with as they are immune, don't need to provide information for, can sue you for defamation if you so something slightly out of sync with their view and so the circus continues until it reaches breaking point as it does with regular frequency.

So keep democracy, just changes the rules of the game for the MP we vote in so they understand their performance can and will be checked and they will be held to public account and scrutiny with real and meaningful sanctions. No hiding behind immunity.

edit spelling

Edited January 3, 2014 by jonclark

[h90]

If the uprising is so powerful, why don't they just win the elections?

Because of the vote buying.

[Amavel]

Maybe Suthep could appoint a "people's" council to oversee the journalists by appointing a "people's journalist council" which could be under the guidance and protection of a "people's police council" to count the people that are the minority representation of the people. These would be overseen by the "People's Superior Council" which would be under the wing of the "People's Supreme Council"

Wasn't Suthep the guy in a James Bond movie in the secret lair? What part of Democracy does he not understand? I mean, apart from the voting and majority rule part. This guy is scarier than a backstreet Colostomy.

Someone should explain to him that on this planet. To gain votes and become the majority requires actual policies and plans that the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE support. This is just typical old money vs. new money and the "people", Red shirt and Yellow shirt are being played for fools by people wearing white shirts.

It's the economy, stupid.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Amavel

[h90]

Suthep accountants must be very busy, filling out payee list of protesters @ 300 baht per day, plus health and life insurance. I wonder how many come from the South and how many really come from Bangkok will be the hard core protesters and not just weekend warriors.

The yellow thugs are trucked from the south.

The gentle old ladies with beautiful hairstyles that The Nation likes to show in its biased articles are most probably from bangkok. These are not the warriors though...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Also the middle age ladies from Isaan which are there in masses aren't the warriors.

Obviously that young men that do manual work all the day are these with stronger bodies than old ladies. If I recall right old ladies are also the minority in the police force.

[rucus7]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Umm, because he has the support of the people. Did you see the pictures of the protests? It wasn't just him there standing on stage alone.

This isn't about Suthep. It's about getting the Shin clan out, more corrupt and failed politicians as you so well put it. They all need to go.

He has the the support of the minority of people.

Actually, a majority of the people did NOT vote for PTP. They voted for a variety of other political parties.

Don't confuse the posters with facts. Plurality, majority. You say tomato, I say . . . . . . .

[animatic]

The idea of 1 person 1 vote as an electoral panacea to Thailand ills is far to simplistic - both sides have been shown that with sufficient financial backing that this ideal is easily manipulated and corrupted.

And that is part of the problem, democracy or rather our western concept of democracy, for whatever multitude of reasons is a corrupted, broken system. It doesn't work here or at least not yet. Thai politicians simply have found a way to cheat the system and eventually the system fails and breaks as people get bored with the cheating and politicians who have become bigger and more important than the democratic system they claim to support, when in fact they actually run and control our democracy.

I'm not condoning Suthep but it seems there are two choices; maintain the current broken and corrupted democratic system. Or dismantle it and rebuild it and start again. And I'm sure all of us have our own views on what the possible consequences of each will be.

Maybe in 20 years Thailand will have matured enough and we will look back on the past 10 years as a period of 'growing pains for Thailand's democracy.

Edit - spelling

So what do you propose to replace democracy with ?

Replacing democracy is the wrong question.There needs to be some serous tweaking with the system. Starting with the MPs

I would start with abolishing immunity for MPs. Why do MPs need immunity? Immunity attracts dishonesty and criminality as it provides protection for their actions which often subvert the course of justice. MP - our leaders - should not need immunity as they act to uphold the law in spirit and action.

Next do some serious legal amendment to the 'defamation' law. Often used as a weapon to silence critics whilst MP hid from behind their castle of parliamentary immunity. - I can hit you legally but you can't hit me back so to speak

Next - Freedom of speech in all aspects, so the media is free in all aspects from political interference and political censorship. So journalists can investigate our MPs and report back to the people/

Finally - Freedom of information - So MP and governments can hid information from the public under vague 'national security' banners.

The bigger issues of health, education,distribution of wealth etc all need addressing in good time

Most problems occur as MP are untouchable once into office and can do what they want. By the time the law catches up with them most of the evidence has been lost, destroyed, forgotten or bribed away and so they can continue. Which they do by cheating democratic system at election time with ridiculous promises, which they are them free to get away with as they are immune, don't need to provide information for, can sue you for defamation if you so something slightly out of sync with their view and so the circus continues until it reaches breaking point as it does with regular frequency.

So keep democracy, just changes the rules of the game for the MP we vote in so they understand their performance can and will be checked and they will be held to public account and scrutiny with real and meaningful sanctions. No hiding behind immunity.

All that and scrap the Party List BS. The worst use of the crony-rewarding political patronage system.

Making the MP's individually accountable is a big step towards actual proper governance.

Then have a double election like France does.

Election 1;

All the parties run against each other, if one gets 50.x % they get the seat,

if not 50% or more, then

Election 2

Where the top 2 winning parties go head to head with the whole country voting ONLY between them,

on a race by race basis.

Edited January 3, 2014 by animatic

[garvon]

O

bviously a lot of writers fail to grasp why so many have joined this protest. The average Thai has been taught from a very early age to be subservient and not allowed to express opinions. My Thai wife , when discussing events that she can't stomach. asked why she doesn't speak out simply has always said that it wouldn't do any good. Well this movement is different in that it has allowed the long-suppressed people to join with their own voice (or whistle).

I think it is a very positive moment in Thai history when the opportunity to express one's feelings has come to the fore.

I wish them well and sincerely hope there is no more loss of life.

[Baerboxer]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Umm, because he has the support of the people. Did you see the pictures of the protests? It wasn't just him there standing on stage alone.

This isn't about Suthep. It's about getting the Shin clan out, more corrupt and failed politicians as you so well put it. They all need to go.

He has the the support of the minority of people.

As did PTP when elected with a minority 2.5 years ago,

[craigt3365]

Actually, a majority of the people did NOT vote for PTP. They voted for a variety of other political parties.

Don't confuse the posters with facts. Plurality, majority. You say tomato, I say . . . . . . .

We not going to let this thread go into another debate about majority. This stops now. Future posts about this will be removed from view.

[dukebowling]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Open your eyes and get a life....what is it you ask.. One person one vote for one 500baht note...

One protester for 1,000 baht...

[binjalin]

Far too many in vain attempts to spin this as so much ado about Suthep,

and so little ado about the people actually getting out in huge numbers to protest, lead by Suthep and many others.

This is far more than about one man and his cronies, going after another to remove him from power.

But the only way to make it seem less 'the will of the people' fed up with a 'failing regime of criminal intent',

and more an 'elitists power play, is to focus on Suthep as nutcase, or crony, or vengeful, etc, etc.

Gee I wonder who would benefit from making Suthep look bad, and label all in the rally crony opportunists?

Oh yes, the other sides Thaksin-crony opportunists. Suthep could call to the people all he wanted to,

but they wouldn't come unless THEY wanted to...

yes but THEY are so few when compared to the 60m Thais - that's the Chang in the room

only an election will show how many 'THEY'S' there are... right???

putting a few hundred thousand THEY"S on the street and extrapolating that to equal ALL of Thailand citizens is a foolish nonsense and you know it

[JHenry]

If the uprising is so powerful, why don't they just win the elections?

Because of the vote buying.

Any election is vote buying in some sense. Why don't Sutheps buy the votes if they are so smart and clever?

[JHenry]

If the uprising is so powerful, why don't they just win the elections?

Have you been following any of the multitude of articles/opinion pieces et al spelling out for you why this is so? Or do you simply come on to TV and give your uneducated opinion after a night of gabbing with the chaps down Soi Cowboy?

I do not have any opinion. I just asked a simple question and got insulted by you.

[dukebowling]

Interesting how the briefly article discusses the "Oil deals in the Gulf of Thailand are also on the table". I would say this is the biggest issue restricting Thailand's growth. So much potential for enrichment of Thailand in the area most oil companies view as a largest potential for oil and gas resources. So why can't these resources be explored for the benefit of Thailand?

The Overlapping Claims Area (OCA) between Thailand and Cambodia have halted oil companies from exploring these areas. While each country has specific blocks assigned, the investment required is not enough to limit the search to those small areas. If an agreement was to be made, Thailand could become oil independent. Think about the price of gas cut in half. Talk about a boost to the economy and standard of living. So why no agreement?

It started with the coup over Thaksin. An agreement with Cambodia was almost complete, but the overthrow cancelled that progression. Abhisit, cancelled the 2001 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between Cambodia and Thailand. Short sighted response most likely personally motivated in response to Cambodia allowing Thaksin to come into the country and become an advisor.

Now with Yingluck, negotiations have opened up again, but the political turmoil once again will cause a halt to progress.

[GarryP]

The reason behind this movement has really always been an emotionally charged one - the disgust over Thaksin's iron grip on the affairs of this country for his own personal gain. There is no sector of Thai society that is unaware of that, or even denies it, albeit privately. But it has become so pervasive it has essentially strangled the administration, with rampant corruption that it can no longer hold or even contain. It is just spilling out all over the place. It is collapsing from within. The people have never felt empowered to deal with the machinations of administrative power. It has mainly been a passive resignation. Passivity has been Thaksin's greatest asset. But the amnesty bill changed all that. And the people are discovering - much to their surprise - that they had the power to express themselves all along. And they are jubilant with that new-found power.

Strangely, the people I speak with are far from jubilant as you put it. they may not like Thaksin but they can't abide Suthep and loather what he stands for.They are enraged by being blackmailed by the minority of protesters planning to stop them going about their business.

Obviously you are speaking to the wrong peoples.... speak to some tax-payers.. you certainly do not live in Bangkok..

Yes, I do not know anyone in the office where I work (Bangkok) that disagrees with what Suthep stands for. They may not like him as a person (I don't like him either), but they despise what PTP, under Thaksin, is doing to the country. Often when protests are held at lunch time they are out there on Silom Road with the other protesters. Even my neighbours, those that I have spoken to about politics, want Thaksin out of the picture as they believe he is the puppet master behind all the policies that are bringing the country to its knees.

I, personally, strongly resent that my taxes are wasted on populist policies that for the most part aren't even benefiting those they are supposedly aimed at.

[CIHUAHUA]

I thought all politicians are about bribes and promises. Don't they all row the same boat?

[Babytalk]

The idea of 1 person 1 vote as an electoral panacea to Thailand ills is far to simplistic - both sides have been shown that with sufficient financial backing that this ideal is easily manipulated and corrupted.

And that is part of the problem, democracy or rather our western concept of democracy, for whatever multitude of reasons is a corrupted, broken system. It doesn't work here or at least not yet. Thai politicians simply have found a way to cheat the system and eventually the system fails and breaks as people get bored with the cheating and politicians who have become bigger and more important than the democratic system they claim to support, when in fact they actually run and control our democracy.

I'm not condoning Suthep but it seems there are two choices; maintain the current broken and corrupted democratic system. Or dismantle it and rebuild it and start again. And I'm sure all of us have our own views on what the possible consequences of each will be.

Maybe in 20 years Thailand will have matured enough and we will look back on the past 10 years as a period of 'growing pains for Thailand's democracy.

Edit - spelling

So what do you propose to replace democracy with ?

Replacing democracy is the wrong question.There needs to be some serous tweaking with the system. Starting with the MPs

I would start with abolishing immunity for MPs. Why do MPs need immunity? Immunity attracts dishonesty and criminality as it provides protection for their actions which often subvert the course of justice. MP - our leaders - should not need immunity as they should act to uphold the law in spirit and action.

Next do some serious legal amendment to the 'defamation' law. Often used as a weapon to silence critics whilst MP hid from behind their castle of parliamentary immunity. - I can hit you legally but you can't hit me back so to speak

Next - Freedom of speech in all aspects, so the media is free in all aspects from political interference and political censorship. So journalists can investigate our MPs and report back to the people/

Finally - Freedom of information - So MP and governments can hid information from the public under vague 'national security' banners.

The bigger issues of health, education,distribution of wealth etc all need addressing in good time

Most problems occur as MP are untouchable once into office and can do what they want. By the time the law catches up with them most of the evidence has been lost, destroyed, forgotten or bribed away and so they can continue. Which they do by cheating democratic system at election time with ridiculous promises, which they are then free to get away with as they are immune, don't need to provide information for, can sue you for defamation if you so something slightly out of sync with their view and so the circus continues until it reaches breaking point as it does with regular frequency.

So keep democracy, just changes the rules of the game for the MP we vote in so they understand their performance can and will be checked and they will be held to public account and scrutiny with real and meaningful sanctions. No hiding behind immunity.

edit spelling

So you really think Suthep & the PDRC are about reform? That the PDRC are against corruption? This is only about one thing: removing the Shin-clan from Thai politics.

If the PDRC wins this power struggle the Shins will be gone and then it will be business as usual. The blatant corruption, abuse of power and vote buying will still be there.

About taxpayers: everyone in Thailand pays tax. But most people only pay indirect taxes (sales tax, tax on alcohol, cars, tobacco etc.). In most countries the total indirect tax collected is bigger than the total direct tax.