People's uprising about to reach 'critical mass': Thai opinion

[MrSlatersParrot]

The real story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQVjUsKSKUE#t=614

A propaganda piece which fails at the first hurdle by repeating lies about the numbers involved in the protests "maybe the biggest in the modern world" - 6 million on December 22 apparently.The reality is the numbers never exceeded 200,000.It gets worse with the usual mantra of uneducated rural people perverting the democratic process.I get the same message from the nice but silly old Chinese Thai grannies who are my neighbours.The underlying reasons for the current hysteria are never mentioned.

Any intelligent person would simply shrug at this nonsense.So the question remains.What exactly is the intended audience or is it just preaching to the converted?

An extraordinary piece and certainly preaching to the converted.

The yellows do not need an amnesty bill either. They have a get out of jail free card already.

When the police finally caught one of the protest leaders the judge was most accomodating and released him on bail so he could carry on.

Perhaps the police should just withdraw and let the mob take over.

They can conduct traffic duty and anyone found wearing a red shirt just gets beaten up.

Could lead to another mob coming for them and what could the army then do?

If they are not wearing red shirts who do they shoot.

[MrSlatersParrot]

60 million Thais are not voters.

One voter typically represents 2-3 other people.

Just as active protestors in large numbers also

represent those at home who could not go to protest.

This group, just like the parliament, represents other Thais by less formal proxy.

In these terms their representative reach is a significant block,

And that dear friends is why the Shin government on the ropes,

is taking them seriously. Even if you aren't.

5.8 million onthe street in Bangkok. Multiple by 2-3.

I don't see why Suthep would not go to the poll if he can achieve that critical mass.

I posed this same concept to my first boss here in Thailand,

25 years in country and fluent speaking, and truly informed and sober person.

2-3? He thought that number was way low,

200-300 sympathetic for each and every motivated risk taker he estimated after a minute of thought.

I responded well 20-30 each, and he nodded certainly.

Even splitting the difference low ball it is still 18 home-folk represented per person in the rally.

So 18 million for each 1 million marching. And there have been more than 1 million at least twice.

And even if you attempt skew the numbers how you wish, the GOVERNMENT is clearly scared

by what these on the ground numbers represent.

Still at election there was over 70% turn out. 15000000 voted for this government and many more in the capital are disenfranchised.

Expect a response soon

[Old Man River]

Far too many in vain attempts to spin this as so much ado about Suthep,

and so little ado about the people actually getting out in huge numbers to protest, lead by Suthep and many others.

This is far more than about one man and his cronies, going after another to remove him from power.

But the only way to make it seem less 'the will of the people' fed up with a 'failing regime of criminal intent',

and more an 'elitists power play, is to focus on Suthep as nutcase, or crony, or vengeful, etc, etc.

Gee I wonder who would benefit from making Suthep look bad, and label all in the rally crony opportunists?

Oh yes, the other sides Thaksin-crony opportunists. Suthep could call to the people all he wanted to,

but they wouldn't come unless THEY wanted to...

yes but THEY are so few when compared to the 60m Thais - that's the Chang in the room

only an election will show how many 'THEY'S' there are... right???

putting a few hundred thousand THEY"S on the street and extrapolating that to equal ALL of Thailand citizens is a foolish nonsense and you know it

60 million Thais are not voters.

One voter typically represents 2-3 other people.

Just as active protestors in large numbers also

represent those at home who could not go to protest.

This group, just like the parliament, represents other Thais by less formal proxy.

In these terms their representative reach is a significant block,

And that dear friends is why the Shin government on the ropes,

is taking them seriously. Even if you aren't.

fair enough

protesters x 3 = 600,000

PTP voters x 3 = 45m

Rice program x 1 = no payment for the farmers.

[tezzainoz]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

yes you are right in the provinces where the people get paid for their votes make a massive majority in Thailand elections

The do it for the money not for the country

remember the saying

do what you can for your country

do not expect your country to do what is best for you

But In Bkk where the educated Thais from the north come to work after leaving University

The Thaskinites have never won an election

Is your glass half empty or half full

Seems you say what best suits your thinking

[tezzainoz]

Please Note:

Yinglucks Cabinet and Pheu- Thai members of parliment announces they they will not accept the rulings of the Constitutional Court

Under Democratic Principles

When the government of any country fails to obey the rules of law, or the countries constitution

No Government can claim to be a legitimate democratic Government

For those that think that any government that comes to office through an election is a legitimate Democratic Government, then sorry you have no idea what a

TRUE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT IS

DEMOCRATIC DICTATORSHIP

[metisdead]

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed:

3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane.

[tezzainoz]

The long awaiting uprising and eviction of clan Shinawat by the masses looks to be well underway. It took longer than I expected for them to realize that the clan are not Robin Hoods, just robbin barstewards. It will prove to be a trying few months as the old red elite and establishment is forced to step aside and the cookie jar lid is slammed shut. They will not take it easily, and lives will be lost, but in a few years time we will all look back on this period and be grateful to those that gave up their time(and even lives) to benefit democracy and the future of Thailand.

I have booked to play 18 holes at Alpine today, might as well enjoy it while we can. The stolen 1,000 rai will almost certainly be handed back to the Buddhist temple from which the clan stole it.

Jaidam, Jaidam Jaidam ...get a life ..... I absolutely love your logic.... 'and be grateful to those that gave up their time(and even lives) to benefit democracy and the future of Thailand'. So..you recon the only way to the path to democracy is to illegally throw out a democratically elected government. Brilliant piece of thinking.

democratically elected government............. wow that is an oxymoron if I ever hear one

your statement has left me rolling on the floor in laughter

[dukebowling]

The knife cuts two ways no where does it say the Constitutional court can not be applied to for a ruling.

Are you saying the Constitutional court is not qualified to say what is Constitutional and what is not?

The purpose of the constitution is to show empowerment of each governing body, not describe restrictions. By this reasoning you could say the PM could replace judicial officials at will because the constitution does not restrict it.

The constitution explicitly spells out the Constitutional court's power to review organic bills/laws proposed by parliament. These are interpreted by the court and verified it is not in conflict with the constitution. If the court finds conflict, the law will become void.

If the Constitutional court was involved in the amendment process, it would create a paradox in the system if checks and balances. Something similar to a circular reference in an excel formula. Since any amendment is not a part of the constitution it would inherently not be constitutional. An impossible to pass, hence the reason the Constitutional Court is purposely left out if this process.

[sirineou]

An Other unbiased opinion by the Nation

Has anyone noticed that a large percentage of the articles posted in this forum are from the Nation, even though there are many other news outlets available, reporting on the same issue that have no dog in this race?

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

I have booked to play 18 holes at Alpine today, might as well enjoy it while we can. The stolen 1,000 rai will almost certainly be handed back to the Buddhist temple from which the clan stole it.

Good to read that you enjoy the fruits of corruption.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Please Note:

Yinglucks Cabinet and Pheu- Thai members of parliment announces they they will not accept the rulings of the Constitutional Court

Under Democratic Principles

When the government of any country fails to obey the rules of law, or the countries constitution

No Government can claim to be a legitimate democratic Government

For those that think that any government that comes to office through an election is a legitimate Democratic Government, then sorry you have no idea what a

TRUE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT IS

DEMOCRATIC DICTATORSHIP

And about said constitution as posted before:

The constitution is pretty clear about amendments:

CHAPTER XV

Amendment of the Constitution

Section 291. An amendment of the Constitution may be made under the rules and procedures as follows:

(1) a motion for amendment must be proposed by the Council of Ministers, members of the House of Representatives of not less than one-fifth of the total number of the existing members of the House of Representatives or members of both Houses of not less than one-fifth of the total number of the existing members thereof or persons having the right to vote of not less than fifty thousand in number under the law on lodging a petition for

introducing the law;

A motion for amendment which has the effect of changing the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of the State or changing the form of the State shall be prohibited;

(2) a motion for amendment must be proposed in the form of a draft Constitution Amendment and the National Assembly

shall consider it in three readings;

(3) the voting in the first reading for acceptance in principle shall be by roll call and open voting, and the amendment must be approved by votes of not less than one-half of the total ~ 172 ~ number of the existing members of both Houses;

(4) the consideration in the second reading section by section shall also be subject to a public hearing participated by persons having the right to vote, who have proposed the draft Constitution Amendment; The voting in the second reading for consideration

section by section shall be decided by a simple majority of votes

(5) at the conclusion of the second reading, there shall be an interval of fifteen days after which the National Assembly

shall proceed with its third reading;

(6) the voting in the third and final reading shall be by roll call and open voting, and its promulgation as the Constitution must

be approved by votes of more than one-half of the total number of the existing members of both Houses;

(7) after the resolution has been passed in accordance with the rules and procedures hitherto specified, the draft Constitution Amendment shall be presented to the King, and the provisions of section 150 and section 151 shall apply mutates mutandis.

No where does it say the amendment has to be reviewed by the Constitutional court. Therefore, this ruling is not applicable and should not be considered.

[sbk]

Off topic discussion of moderation removed. suggest you read the forum rules

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

[dukebowling]

The knife cuts two ways no where does it say the Constitutional court can not be applied to for a ruling.

Are you saying the Constitutional court is not qualified to say what is Constitutional and what is not?

The purpose of the constitution is to state empowerment of each governing body, not to describe restrictions. By restrictive reasoning you could say the PM could replace judicial officials at will because the constitution does not restrict it.

The constitution explicitly spells out the Constitutional court's power to review organic law bills proposed by parliament. These are interpreted by the court and verified it is not in conflict with the constitution. If the court finds conflict, the law will become void.

If the Constitutional court was involved in the amendment process, it would create a paradox in the system of checks and balances. Something similar to a circular reference in an excel formula. Since any amendment is not a part of the constitution it would inherently not be constitutional and therefore, impossible to pass, hence the reason the Constitutional Court is purposely left out of this process.

Corrected for typos and clarity.

Edited January 4, 2014 by dukebowling

[fish fingers]

is yingluck going to stay in bangkok or run away again?

[animatic]

An Other unbiased opinion by the Nation

Has anyone noticed that a large percentage of the articles posted in this forum are from the Nation, even though there are many other news outlets available, reporting on the same issue that have no dog in this race?

The Nation is a form of partner with Thai Visa the last 2 years or so.

Which explains why it is the predominant, but not sole, source for articles.

And is the reason B. Post won't allow itself to be directly quoted in a competitors partner web venture.

tVF was around much earlier in the scheme of things, but with the general sea changes in

hard copy news business models this was a needed partnering for those involved.

But per se doesn't imply a direct TVF editorial entanglement with The Nation.

[GarryP]

Yes, I do not know anyone in the office where I work (Bangkok) that disagrees with what Suthep stands for. They may not like him as a person (I don't like him either), but they despise what PTP, under Thaksin, is doing to the country. Often when protests are held at lunch time they are out there on Silom Road with the other protesters. Even my neighbours, those that I have spoken to about politics, want Thaksin out of the picture as they believe he is the puppet master behind all the policies that are bringing the country to its knees.

I, personally, strongly resent that my taxes are wasted on populist policies that for the most part aren't even benefiting those they are supposedly aimed at.

I wonder if you were in Silom in 2010 when the red shirts were rallying there outside the Bangkok bank cheered on by the office workers?

I somehow doubt it.

Are you a Johnny come lately?

The global financial ruin didn't affect you?

Martial law not a problem?

Life firing zones in Silom and sathon just a nuisance?

What I remember was all the wanke_r bankers clearing off. The guys with their clip boards on the street. The analists with their laptops strapped to their backs they all ran off

Just what is your point? I was there in 2010. My office has bullet scars and windows had to be replaced because of bullets fired from behind red lines at the corner of Lumpini Park. I went to the office everyday that it was open and witnessed the screaming matches between the reds and people on Silom by the Dusit Thani Hotel. I am just another worker ant and do not have the luxury of choosing when and when not to go in to work. So I ask again, what is your point?

[PREM-R]

An Other unbiased opinion by the Nation

Has anyone noticed that a large percentage of the articles posted in this forum are from the Nation, even though there are many other news outlets available, reporting on the same issue that have no dog in this race?

The Nation is a form of partner with Thai Visa the last 2 years or so.

Which explains why it is the predominant, but not sole, source for articles.

And is the reason B. Post won't allow itself to be directly quoted in a competitors partner web venture.

tVF was around much earlier in the scheme of things, but with the general sea changes in

hard copy news business models this was a needed partnering for those involved.

But per se doesn't imply a direct TVF editorial entanglement with The Nation.

What 'form of partner' is the nation if it does not imply a direct TVF editorial entanglement? Only Webfact can start news items, they are generally from the nation. TVF is as editorially unbiased as the FAAKS NOOZE Channel.

Edited January 5, 2014 by PREM-R

[animatic]

An Other unbiased opinion by the Nation

Has anyone noticed that a large percentage of the articles posted in this forum are from the Nation, even though there are many other news outlets available, reporting on the same issue that have no dog in this race?

The Nation is a form of partner with Thai Visa the last 2 years or so.

Which explains why it is the predominant, but not sole, source for articles.

And is the reason B. Post won't allow itself to be directly quoted in a competitors partner web venture.

tVF was around much earlier in the scheme of things, but with the general sea changes in

hard copy news business models this was a needed partnering for those involved.

But per se doesn't imply a direct TVF editorial entanglement with The Nation.

What 'form of partner' is the nation if it does not imply a direct TVF editorial entanglement? Only Webfact can start news items, they are generally from the nation. TVF is as editorially unbiased as the FAAKS NOOZE Channel.

Well, not speaking for Webfact, or other mods who can post news topics but generally don't,

it is my understanding that; The Nation does not pick which items TVF puts up,

but provides them legal access to any items published by 'The Nation' TVF chooses to pick.

Since not all papers do give access, this is a form of partnership,

but no editorial control is being exercised by the Nation.

Nor any form of Op-Ed control of what happens on TVF.

Anything further you should direct to Webfact personally in his capacity as mod.

I am speaking from what I understand and what I have observed first hand.

Edited January 5, 2014 by animatic

[sbk]

Actually despite the fact that this is all entirely off topic with nothing at all to do with the OP and could be considered a forum of discussion of moderation, I will answer your questions and let you know that you have it wrong.

Bangkok Post only allows RSS feeds. We are not an RSS feed. We are a forum that allows discussions, Bangkok Post does not allow quotes or links but only the RSS feed. Ergo, no content from Bangkok Post, it has nothing at all to do with the Nation. The Nation is not a partner but they do allow us to use their content fully. As do several other news sources that you all fail to conveniently overlook in your crusade to somehow label Thaivisa as one thing or another. I would suggest you all read the forum rules in their entirety. Especially the part that says we are an apolitical forum.

Now, this is the end of this discussion PERIOD. If you have questions feel free to PM me but any further inaccurate speculation and attempts to further derail an already derailed topic will result in suspensions.

[Halion]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Your are in serious need of help. 9

[Halion]

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

You are truly delusional. 90% of the PTP fall into the category of "failed and corrupt politicians"

Feb 2,nd in Isan, One person + 500 Baht ....one vote and by the way the vote buying is already in full swing