Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[Mossfinn]

@ notmyself, how has my statement been demolished? I have simply stated, if there is a God you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing, pray tell how that is demolished? If you choose from whichever gallery you wish, if he/she is there you win, if not, nothing to lose.

You say "if there is a god, you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing"

Tell this to parents of murdered Palestian kid, to mom of murdered Isrealy kid!

In 17th century, men like me were burned alive by Catholics, I doubt that it was fun for the people who were burned alive.

Your quote is simply wrong.

The author of the quote you posted, sees religion as a harmless, fun game. It is anything but.

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

The murdered Palestinian and the murdered Israeli, in my humble opinion, is not about religion.

[Mossfinn]

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

Whilst I may well agree with you, you haven't established it as being a fact.

Sometimes you do not need fact, sometimes you have nothing to hang on to but a Leap of Faith, even so, the statement

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

is rather fragile in scope in the extreme.

[anon8]

Religion fits in here perfectly.

The Muslim man was assured by Imaam in a mosque that there are 17, maybe 70, virgins waiting for him in heaven, if he dies as a marter.

That is a religeous belief.

Do you now see how it fits here?

Who here has claimed all wars are caused by religion? If the last line in your post was directed to me, I ask you not to twist my post.

And he has done it for no other reason except he will be received into Heaven by 17, or maybe 70 or maybe even 12 & 20 Magpies, not for any other belief of self sacrifice, but because an Imam said so? So no, I do not see how it fits, unless you link to a specific incident, even then it doesn't really fit in the overall scheme of things. The Law of Karma fits better, me thinks.

Link a specific incident? Are you really not aware how Hamaz and Hesbolla operate?

This is so very basic, if you had any interest in mid east politics, and Islam.

If you were interested how it works, you have probably already watched a dozen, 2 dozen documentaries from different sources, from Al Jazeera news channel, all the way to great independent documentary makers such as Vice.

No, If you dont know the very basics, I dont know where to even begin, and Im not going to search, and post links for you.

Good night.

[Mossfinn]

Ah, I see, you were generalising, not being specific, debates are rather easy that way.

I am aware of several avenues of dispute resolution, and the cause and effect ( Karma, law of ) of each differing strand, but depending on the viewpoint of the documentary, unless you are able to determine and interrogate the viewpoint of the programme you will be sidelined by what you are actually thinking you believe in.

As a Parthian Shot, as you are going to bed that is, do you actually believe people blow themselves up because they believe they will be received by, shall we say one virgin for the sake of argument, or because they have a belief in a certain cause.

There are varying answers to that statement.

[anon8]

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

Whilst I may well agree with you, you haven't established it as being a fact.

How do you establish a fact in discussion about religion, please?

We are just chatting here.

If you don't share my view, that when it comes to religeon, we the humanity lose, we all lose, how am I gonna establish that as a fact? You will believe what you want to believe.

All Im saying is that religeon is a cause of misery and suffering for millions of people, who dont deserve their lives being destroyed by religeous lunatics. But it is not a fact. It is my opinion, not a fact.

Facts are a term used in rational world. I feel that being sincerely religeous, not just going to church every Sun as part social life, is a mental illness. But this is only my opinion.

Good night.

Edited January 3, 2014 by valgehiir

[Mossfinn]

Well you could start by putting some simple reference points to your statements, i.e

we the humanity lose, we all lose, how am I gonna establish that as a fact?

All Im saying is that religeon is a cause if misery and suffering for millions if people, who dont deserve their lives being destroyed by religeous lunatics. But it is not a fact. It is my opinion.

I feel that being sincerely religeous, not just going to church every Sun as part social life, is a mental illness. But this is only my opinion.

I accept they are your opinions, but some meat on the bone would be helpful, just so I could at least destroy the opinion in good faith

[notmyself]

@ notmyself, how has my statement been demolished? I have simply stated, if there is a God you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing, pray tell how that is demolished? If you choose from whichever gallery you wish, if he/she is there you win, if not, nothing to lose.

Granted if one considers wasting one's life on a folly to be nothing.

I'll free paraphrase now as it is late... It is considered quite reasonable for people to go to the dying and ask if they wish to repent and take the hand of Jesus. Should someone go to the dying and say they have only a short time to live, why not give the last of it to not being a slave, that would would be considered distasteful. Why is that?

Pascal's wager's biggest claim to drain is that it only works on those who are serfs and those who wish to be so. Had you gone into Pascal's ponce's you will hear of him speak about those who cannot be made to believe. If it were not for people not wanting to be slaves then we would still have them.

A matter of choice to be believe in one's folly, I suggest it is not yours to presume on others, nor is it mine.

Yet we choose to educate our children.... to what end?

I personally feel you do not understand, as I do not understand your belief, but hey, isn't that what make's the World go round, or flat, whatever the case may be.

I think you are having a laugh. You know full well that theism is belief and atheism is disbelief yet you say you do not understand my beliefs.

Well good few years ago I retired and fully moved over to Thailand. Already spent the best part of ten years here so nothing was new and I had lots of friends etc. After a short time I felt like I needed to do something for people but being T12 paraplegic my options were limited. I'd done three years of a degree in phycology (over 20 years earlier) so maybe give counselling over the internet a look up. It took off! After a few months I ended up doing counselling work for people who came out as atheist in the southern states of the US. Many of these people lose their entire family, their friends, their job and the willingness to remain in the only place they know. Given the location, if I didn't know the Bible inside and out I wouldn't be able to help. When you say you personally feel that I do not understand I find it intriguing.

[zeichen]

I wonder if those that are so anti religion and fear its harm and negative effects also don't believe and fear discussions of politics and economy.

first of all faith is and does not have to equate to religion. Those that have faith in something greater than themselves tend to feel connected to those around them. If people are stuck on the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law, then yes I might agree with some of the sentiments here. However most are confusing fundamentalist extremist with the average person who has faith and belief. If one's faith and belief gives them comfort, a sense of purpose, and a sense of community and values to live by, how can that harm anyone?

Second of all you must realize that issues with Israel and Palestine have a lot more to do with political rights rather than religious.

[kurnell]

I wonder where the concept of a god originally came from? And really, if there was a god that had created a universe so vast as ours, then why would this god be so vain to demand that the inhabitants of one tiny world in this universe meet on designated days to bow and grovel?? The entire concept is completely ridiculous.

[GuestHouse]

Let's put an end to a misconception.

"Religion causes all wars"

No it does not.

Moreover, the secular wars of the 20th century killed more people than all the preceding wars throughout human history.

Even IF every single war prior to the 20th century had been caused by religion, secular wars would still have killed more people than religious wars.

[wym]

Religion - usually has power/political components and a bureaucratic hierarchy, social functions in helping the elites control the population

I'm a total zero about those aspects.

Spirituality, seeking some level of meaning behind the world we can perceive with our senses I find a completely valid quest. In that sense the "God" of Christianity, Islam and Judaism is the same God, and similar concepts exist in most religions, with the exception of Buddhism, hence why many consider that more of a philosophy.

From a functional, purely practical point of view, I find my life works much better, my worldly strivings get better results and I am happier, have greater peace of mind if I try to incorporate spiritual practices into my daily life, even if I have no evidence for the "traditional" beliefs behind them, as long as just suspend disbelief they seem to work pretty well.

Each of us are free to pick and choose what beliefs and practices we will adopt, but I've found just taking the so-called "scientific" POV that it's all a meaningless munge of random coincidence without any purpose at all isn't at all productive, nor at this point believable.

[tartempion]

I'm in the "not at all bothered by other people's faith" bracket.

While observing with admiration the inspiration so many people of faith find in their faith to live good lives, often making huge efforts for the good of others.

Certainly I feel no threat whatsoever from other people's faith.

Thus you have no issues with the ongoing daily killings by these nutters???

[tartempion]

Yet we choose to educate our children.... to what end?

The human species has not done any good to this planet.

Reality is we are destroying the tree we live on.

Therefore it is wrong to bare children.

Whipping out the species is the way to go.

We are some error of nature and let's hope nature will correct itself, in the scale of time the 40k years humans are nicking the planet doesn not mean much.

I did study a masters in psychology and think human madness is part of our genes.

Education won't solve the problem.

I do raise a Thai child however (she will be 3 soon), I raise her very un-Thai.

I do see miserable lives here in the village, people who have no intention of getting away from the xxxxx (call it what you like)

That child probably will get most of my investments in this country and hopefully a better life than most of the villagers here.

And no, i am not going to abandon her to the fake Buddhism here, I will show her other ways.

I read 100's of books, from Socrates to Hemingway. Hope she will do also and have a free mind.

[greytown]

If you believe, and their is a God, you win, if you don't believe and there is no God, you lose nothing.

However if you don't believe and there is a God, you gain nothing ( Mossy' addendum to the wager )

Actually, if you don't believe and there is a God, you lose everything, as you rejected God and will in turn be rejected when your time comes.

[pitrevie]

Let's put an end to a misconception.

"Religion causes all wars"

No it does not.

Moreover, the secular wars of the 20th century killed more people than all the preceding wars throughout human history.

Even IF every single war prior to the 20th century had been caused by religion, secular wars would still have killed more people than religious wars.

Of course not forgetting the flood when god decided to wipe out the whole of humanity apart from one family.

[Naam]

So a 4 for yourself on the proffered scale?

I choose to keep my own point on the faith scale to myself, which is I understand something many members would prefer we all did .... Though that begs the question, why does the question of faith arise so often on this forum.

because even bored people can't keep on poking their noses ad infinitum. once in a while they need a change and then they open an intelligent thread or poll in Thaivisa.

[CraigSchuler]

Next you'll be trying to tell me the Easter Bunny isn't real either!

[greytown]

@ notmyself, how has my statement been demolished? I have simply stated, if there is a God you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing, pray tell how that is demolished? If you choose from whichever gallery you wish, if he/she is there you win, if not, nothing to lose.

You say "if there is a god, you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing"

Tell this to parents of murdered Palestian kid, to mom of murdered Isrealy kid!

In 17th century, men like me were burned alive by Catholics, I doubt that it was fun for the people who were burned alive.

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

Crimes committed by foolish men in the name of God does not disprove the existence of God in any way. It does show though that men are easily misled and corrupted by the temptations of evil. Organized religion is certainly as prone to being corrupted and misused as anything else.

[Johnniey]

1 for me.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jimth123]

It's all the same thing. What's the difference in believing and believing NOT? You're still stuck in your belief system.

[deecee10]

I'm a believer.

i believe in Atheism.

[Sabot]

I would be a 6 on this scale. Give me some evidence of a god and I'll believe in one, if not, I just can't believe.

You die ,end of road ,there is nothing .

Having an afterlife and the existence of a god do not have to go hand-in-hand. Why can't there be an afterlife without a god?

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

Too many times religious people will close themselves off to any discussion of the non-existence of their god. Of course, they dismiss other gods just as readily as I dismiss theirs. I say stay open to discussion and give me some evidence.

[wym]

If you believe, and their is a God, you win, if you don't believe and there is no God, you lose nothing.

However if you don't believe and there is a God, you gain nothing ( Mossy' addendum to the wager )

Actually, if you don't believe and there is a God, you lose everything, as you rejected God and will in turn be rejected when your time comes.

Believing in a God that would act like that sounds pretty hellish to me.

Just live a good life, make the most of your talents to be genuinely happy and to help others and if there's any sort of afterlife you'll be OK.

The "only insiders win" is just part of the organized-religion "us vs them" scam, can't believe any genuinely spiritual person would buy into such a silly idea.

[stevehaigh]

i'm probably a 7 but why didn't you do this as a poll? i'm not bothered to read everyone reply

[DoctorG]

A good thread. I am glad the mods did not close it.

6 myself because I like to keep an open mind, at least until I see some conclusive proof.

[stevehaigh]

If you believe, and their is a God, you win, if you don't believe and there is no God, you lose nothing.

However if you don't believe and there is a God, you gain nothing ( Mossy' addendum to the wager )

Actually, if you don't believe and there is a God, you lose everything, as you rejected God and will in turn be rejected when your time comes.

Believing in a God that would act like that sounds pretty hellish to me.

Just live a good life, make the most of your talents to be genuinely happy and to help others and if there's any sort of afterlife you'll be OK.

The "only insiders win" is just part of the organized-religion "us vs them" scam, can't believe any genuinely spiritual person would buy into such a silly idea.

if it was true that 'only insiders win' that's a pretty harsh system because how do you know which god version to go for? there are loads to religions and sects within each one. you would be taking a big risk just choosing one.

[jackflash]

> How about you? Believer or non believer?

It's a loaded question. To me "Believer or non believer?" makes no sense at all.

Until I have some definite evidence, the only meaningful thing I can say is "I don't know" .

Strangely, many people are terrified of saying "I don't know".

They have to have certainty one way or the other.

[Leung Falang]

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

My personal experience is that people with like minds find each other. The reason that the OP has no friends that are religious is because he isn't. Why would they or he want to be around people they cannot share their beliefs together?

I believe that there are a lot more people looking for something to believe in than not. My generation of people seemed to stray from faith but now those that have no faith often have children that want to understand what their parents reject.

There are those of faith that want to talk with everyone about it, and then there are those that have the same faith but are very private because of the scorn they get from the 7's on your list. It is socially acceptable to be atheist and talk about it, but it isn't socailly acceptable to praise the lord in mixed company. At least in Thailand people accept you and don't argue with you when you share with them.

I am a Christian and do share the Good News of Jesus Christ to those who are willing to listen. God breaks arms, not us-we just tell.

[GuestHouse]

Let's put an end to a misconception.

"Religion causes all wars"

No it does not.

Moreover, the secular wars of the 20th century killed more people than all the preceding wars throughout human history.

Even IF every single war prior to the 20th century had been caused by religion, secular wars would still have killed more people than religious wars.

Of course not forgetting the flood when god decided to wipe out the whole of humanity apart from one family.

It seems you are selective in what you wish to believe.

[GuestHouse]

I'm in the "not at all bothered by other people's faith" bracket.

While observing with admiration the inspiration so many people of faith find in their faith to live good lives, often making huge efforts for the good of others.

Certainly I feel no threat whatsoever from other people's faith.

Thus you have no issues with the ongoing daily killings by these nutters???

Actually, I'm much more worried about what my government (in league with other governments) are unto in the name of protecting me from 'nutters'.

And I'm of the mind that much of the trouble with these 'nutters' started with my government (in league with other governments) thinking it a good idea to interfere in the government of the nations these 'nutters' come from.