British teachers please stop correcting my American daughter

[harrry]

Dear Z, may I suggest you recommend that your daughter's teacher use a different song, perhaps "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off" - you know, the one about bananas and pa/pyjamas.

Having been "blessed" with the canonical RP accent there's no way I'm going to tolerate foreign accents like Scouse or Geordie, never mind foreign accents from overseas.

We cannot do that...Bannas were kiwi and we all know what they do after 5.

[simon43]

What nationality is this teacher? Is she actually qualified to teach? How long has she been teaching?

To yell at a 4-year old for pronouncing a letter in the correct manner for that child's (NES) nationality cannot be right, whatever your own views on Zed or Zee.

Simon

[Nemesis7]

Both are correct in their own different ways

[glegolo]

Posted Yesterday, 20:29

First, I want to state that though I am originally from the US, I have been teaching abroad for the majority of my life. I totally love schools that have various teachers and expose students to the myriad of accents and vernaculars of English. I often utilize British spelling, and vocabulary with students that are more familiar with it. When I teach, I don't ever tell students to change spelling or grammar points when they are consistent.

I want to make it clear that this is not an Anti British English post. What is chapping my ass though is my 4 year old daughter came home from school recently arguing with me about the ABC song. We sing it together all of the time. She goes to a Thai school but has a native teacher 2 times a week for about 30 minutes. You wouldn't think that little exposure would have much influence but my daughter now insists on pronouncing ZEEE, ZED. I told her that in our family we say Zee. She went to school and sang the ABC song with Zee and her teacher scolded her about how the proper way was to say Zed. My daughter said "in my family we say Z" Her teacher then really let her have it.

I just don't get it how teachers could willing want to change someone's accent or way of communicating. Really chapps my ass.

I really don't want to confront the teacher but it just drives me nuts that people in such a position of influence doesn't realize how serious their power is.

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I believe that you are way way way out of line here. You as an american should accept that thais are being thought ENGLISH in schools here and NOT american dialect of english.... Forget that......

Glegolo

[cms22]

Don't complain. The teacher is teaching proper English!

[wayned]

You will never convince a Brit not to be a Brit, and a Yank is a Yank, so just live with it! And actually in the international phonetic alphabet "Z" is not Zee or Zed, it is Zulu! So tell them all to Bravo, Uniform, Zulu, Zulu Oscar, Foxtrot, Foxtrot! Sorry, been a long day!

Edited January 6, 2014 by wayned

[lostmebike]

What nationality is this teacher? Is she actually qualified to teach? How long has she been teaching?

To yell at a 4-year old for pronouncing a letter in the correct manner for that child's (NES) nationality cannot be right, whatever your own views on Zed or Zee.

Simon

Yes I agree with what some of what you saying and would also have to ask ...

How old is this teacher?

How long has she been teaching?

She does sound a little inexperienced and insensitive. Zee or Zed, just tell the kids the difference, it's all the same!

[lostmebike]

When my daughter comes home in tears because she doesn't want to be an American anymore, it is pretty hard

If your daughter is really this upset about being American I suggest you have a chat with her school.

[Jingthing]

In my experience (which is a lot) British people are much more arrogant about the "correctness" of their usage than Americans. I think that is really obnoxious. They are both equally correct.

Yes, we DO have a U shortage.

Youse gotta problem wit dat?!?

Some English people act like they OWN the language because of the origins there.

Do Portuguese people have any special right to dictate to Brazilians what is proper usage of Portuguese?

Edited January 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[zeichen]

She is an older British lady, retired just doing some extra work to keep busy.

Like I said, I have no problem with my daughter pronouncing Zee Zed. I have a problem with the teacher reprimanding her and making her feel alienated because she uses the American pronunciation. Since she is an American, I don't understand why any acceptable pronunciation would be reprimanded especially since have the kids cannot even pronounce football, and say footban. That she doesn't correct but Zed she makes my duaghter feel like an idiot.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

"I really don't want to confront the teacher but it just drives me nuts that people in such a position of influence doesn't realize how serious their power is

Why not ? It doesn't follow that confrontation has to be aggressive ! Confront her with a well rehearsed intelligent argument designed to challenge her behavior and ask her to justify it, then relax and let her respond. Effective people are assertive not aggressive. Let your intellect dominate your emotion !

[Somtamnication]

If it continues, a visit to the school is needed. Farang to farang. Bypass all the monkeys completely. They would not understand.

[zeichen]

Again, I don't want this to be a thread about American vs. British, but more about how important it is to be accepting of young learners. How being open minded as a teacher is so crucial to their development. And perhaps a chance for teachers to reflect on their own concept of correctness and acceptance. It really bothers me when any teacher corrects a student for using an accepted spelling, pronunciation, grammar. It might not be the one that I use but I never tell students they are wrong or make them change their ways.

[Kayahammer]

The clue is in the name of the language guv.

ENGLISH!

[Jingthing]

The clue is in the name of the language guv.

ENGLISH!

Typical!

[Jingthing]

In my experience (which is a lot) British people are much more arrogant about the "correctness" of their usage than Americans. I think that is really obnoxious. They are both equally correct.

Yes, we DO have a U shortage.

Youse gotta problem wit dat?!?

Some English people act like they OWN the language becomes of the origins there.

Do Portuguese people have any special right to dictate to Brazilians what is proper usage of Portuguese?

Who's the obnoxious and arrogant ones?

'Some English people act like they OWN the language becomes of the origins there'

Is this an example of American English? Translate for us old boy

Corrected.

I am serious. I've rarely met an American who has an attitude about British usage. We accept it. We don't suggest American usage is the only acceptable and correct way. If a British child moved to the USA, they would be steered in the direction of American usage, but with full tolerance of the child's background.

Of course for some British t.v. shows, Americans really need SUBTITLES though!

Edited January 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[ekamaihouse]

I'm English and have 2 kids here.. My daughter is taught by an American lady - I like the way my daughter comes back from school with some Americanism's. My son's being taught by a guy from Manchester, now that's a worry!!

[GAZZPA]

In my experience (which is a lot) British people are much more arrogant about the "correctness" of their usage than Americans. I think that is really obnoxious. They are both equally correct.

Yes, we DO have a U shortage.

Youse gotta problem wit dat?!?

Some English people act like they OWN the language because of the origins there.

Do Portuguese people have any special right to dictate to Brazilians what is proper usage of Portuguese?

We do own the language dear boy. You borrowed it from us because you don't have one of your own, so could you please use it correctly from now on, there's a good fellow.

[GAZZPA]

I'm English and have 2 kids here.. My daughter is taught by an American lady - I like the way my daughter comes back from school with some Americanism's. My son's being taught by a guy from Manchester, now that's a worry!!

Your daughter will find everything "awesome" but don't worry your son will be "sorted".

[Colabamumbai]

As a Canadian teacher in Thailand I teach the students both the American and the Canadian/British pronunciations and spellings. Colour/color zed and zee. Any English teacher worth his salary owes it to the students to do the same.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

In my experience (which is a lot) British people are much more arrogant about the "correctness" of their usage than Americans. I think that is really obnoxious. They are both equally correct.

Yes, we DO have a U shortage.

Youse gotta problem wit dat?!?

Some English people act like they OWN the language becomes of the origins there.

Do Portuguese people have any special right to dictate to Brazilians what is proper usage of Portuguese?

Unfortunately, English speaking peoples do not have an authoritative reference source for language disputes. The French have L'Académie française and there are some equivalent institutions in other countries, With some fascination, I discovered that there is such a body for Indian English, however you can't take away from the English the indisputable fact that they spoke it first. Surely this gives them precedence in disputes on authenticity! I agree with your point that the English should not be pompous about their "ownership" of the language. After all, Mark Twain was an American and educated in his own country and could have taught the English a thing or two about their language.

One of the most curious things about English is the small number of English natives who can speak it.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[Thaiready]

Its Źzzzzzzzzzzz.....I can never understands Brits nor Auzzies.

[overherebc]

In my experience (which is a lot) British people are much more arrogant about the "correctness" of their usage than Americans. I think that is really obnoxious. They are both equally correct.

Yes, we DO have a U shortage.

Youse gotta problem wit dat?!?

Some English people act like they OWN the language because of the origins there.

Do Portuguese people have any special right to dictate to Brazilians what is proper usage of Portuguese?

Good God Sir,

It might be rubbish (trash, garbage) but by Jingo, it's British rubbish (trash, garbage) what !

[Jingthing]

It could be worse.

Thais could be into CRICKET!

[Gsxrnz]

It could be worse.

Thais could be into CRICKET!

Or worse, baseball. Oh wait, wasn't that Rounders originally?

[GAZZPA]

I guess my point is that my daughter is an American. So correcting a native English speaking American for saying Zee instead of Zed is pretty silly. I do understand having uniformity in a class but at the same time, a teacher singling out a student for not pronouncing something the same way as a teacher is a little silly. When I teach, I state how I pronounce things but if student pronounce, spell or use grammar that is from a different vernacular, I don't correct them.

When my daughter comes home in tears because she doesn't want to be an American anymore, it is pretty hard.

I spend hours a day with my daughter and find it scary in just 6 months with only 1 hour a week, can create such a serious transformation.

As for American vs. British school. I did write that she goes to a Thai school. Also she is 4 so trying to force a foreign accent on a student is pretty rigid.

We are not talking about Thai students who have no background in English, we are talking about children that are raised in an English speaking household.

I would never in my life correct a British accented child to change. I would not make them feel different. I would only correct them if they used words that weren't accepted either way.

As for how I know what the teacher does. I don't always trust everything my daughter says but when she comes home in tears and screams about wanting to go to school, I took that as a sign. Most 4 year olds especially ones that love social interaction tend to like school. My wife sometimes observes the class.

Teachers shouldn't be raising their voices and yelling at 3-4 year olds period, let alone for not singing the ending of a song the same as others.

If you're serious here Z then I do sympathise with you, and your daughter; no 4 year old child should be humiliated by a teacher in that way, and if this happened to my child I would have no hesitation whatsoever in making a direct intervention with the teacher. Even if the teacher insists on a particular pronunciation, s/he shouldn't be reducing the child to tears.

I think your OP does actually hint at a very interesting issue about accent in general. I have several times on this forum felt fairly disgusted by the way non-NES teachers have been vilified for not having an NES accent - as if such a thing exists! In England alone there is an unbelievable range of accents; when you add in the UK as a whole and all the other NES countries and their local internal variations, then to speak of an NES accent is just silly. My own accent has changed dramatically 4 or 5 times throughout my life. To me it's about making sure that all the sounds that should be heard are heard, ie diction or enunciation, with a fair amount of leeway as to the shape of the sound itself. Specifically with spelling, if an issue arises I just make the students aware of the differences; but obviously that would be with an older group, not with 4 year olds, most of whose vocab would be spelt the same (I hope nobody's going to spend time racking their brains to find a rare difference to dis(respect) me on this ;-) )

You're quite right on all points here. To be honest I find the topic funny (not the part about the child being pressured of course, the mother needs to go and speak to the teacher about this of course). English is spoken in many countries and is by far the widest spoken language. Right now it is the International business language and it's not likely to change anytime soon so there are huge variances in how English is spoken and pronounced.

It doesn't matter at all, everyone pretty much understands everyone else (with the exception of very broad accents such as spoken in Glasgow).

The teacher should relax a bit and teach the children that English is spoken across the world and there are some small differences,, they will understand, no problem.

[car720]

For my 2 cents worth I would like to ask, what language is it that we teach?

Where did the idea of American English come from? Are the Americans saying that they have a superior language and that the rest of the world speaks gutter language? As to the spelling I believe all of this stems back to that incredible fellow Mr. John Longman and his introduction of what he considered should be the spelling of the English language. On the bright side though Coke and Microsoft are rewriting the language as we speak so it really is not going to matter much longer and, mark my words, in 10 years the Lingua Franca will be Mandarin anyway.

[Thaiready]

We didn't borrow it.......WE TOOK IT

[GAZZPA]

It could be worse.

Thais could be into CRICKET!

Or football, or golf. Erm, oh dear they are.

note: by football I mean proper football not the ladies rugby that Americans call football.

[Jingthing]

For my 2 cents worth I would like to ask, what language is it that we teach?

Where did the idea of American English come from? Are the Americans saying that they have a superior language and that the rest of the world speaks gutter language? As to the spelling I believe all of this stems back to that incredible fellow Mr. John Longman and his introduction of what he considered should be the spelling of the English language. On the bright side though Coke and Microsoft are rewriting the language as we speak so it really is not going to matter much longer and, mark my words, in 10 years the Lingua Franca will be Mandarin anyway.

Wow!

All the variations are real English.

American English is likely more dominant internationally because of:

-- general globalization

-- the emergence of English as the dominant international language for commerce, technology, and internet

-- commercial and cultural domination of the American "empire" in comparison to England which no longer has an empire (yes Hollywood movies have been a big factor in this)

-- the USA having a MUCH LARGER population than England

Edited January 6, 2014 by Jingthing