Red shirts harass PDRC protesters in Chiang Mai

[kimamey]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

How is my post being intolerant of others. Where in my post was I taking either side?

seems to me that it is the yellow shirts who are harassing the reds.

Sounds pretty much like taking sides to me. Protesting should be allowed anywhere regardless. I'm sure that the reds and other government supporters felt they were being provoked by people with a different opinion than theirs but that's no excuse.

I'm also fairly certain the same thing would happen if pro government supporters and red shirts in particular were to try the same in the south. It's still not acceptable in a democracy.

I see you still seem to have trouble summoning up enough energy to type anti government instead of yellow shirts.

[kimamey]

What did they expect? Free food and drinks like at Suthep's Bangkok rally?

If you take a dump in my backyard, don't expect to be treated nicely.

Not a good example, try public space, ya know a place that people can come and go FREELY.

I agree with you but I think you're wasting your time sadly.

[Frank James]

How many arrests were made? Or is violence an acceptable political tool to the police of Redland?

It's called Chiang Mai, the finest city in Thailand. It's not "Redland."

[kblaze]

I live in Chiang Mai. In 2010 a Thai friend of mine went down to the red shirt rally in Bangkok and brought me back a red T-shirt as gift and souvenir. Without thinking much I wore it when I went to the local market. I got a mixed reaction, several smiles and thumbs up but a noticeably aggressive reaction from a few others. Maybe they (rightly, perhaps) thought that as a farang I had no right to involve myself. I beat a hasty retreat and have never dared wear it outdoors again.

good god man, never do that again. It would be a deathwish in bangkok!

ive daydreamed many times about wearing anti thaksin shirts around Bangkok, but I quickly pay my bill and go home to sober up before doing so

[jpeg]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

A Thai friend, upon learning my not insubstantial difficulties with certain of the (erstwhile) local judiciary here, said 'Sometimes you must pay them' (police et al). THIS after her stating her dislike for both Taksin and Suthep. They damn well need leaflets, and lots of them, to explain clearly and simply just how corruption impacts their lives in the form of shoddy infrastructure, lousy education, and not least of all, a judicial system to be bought by the highest bidder!

[Old Man River]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest, seems to me that it is the yellow shirts who are harassing the reds. They have guts tho about 100 against a few million.

You over state the red case in Chiang Mai, there are many Thais here who are not in love with the Shins, millions of reds here I think not there demos do not draw very large crowds.

The RS's need Thaksin's funding and Thaksin needs their numbers. Hence my comment last week, until their is a political party from the North/Northeast that is not reliant on Thaksin's funding, democracy as we know it will take take place, IMHO.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[theslime]

What did they expect? Free food and drinks like at Suthep's Bangkok rally?

If you take a dump in my backyard, don't expect to be treated nicely.

Not a good example, try public space, ya know a place that people can come and go FREELY.

Despising any form of violence, I would like anyway remember how many Suthep's supporters here told the Red Shirts going to Rajamangala Stadium tried their luck knowing they were near Ramkhamhaeng University.

Public space there too, but everyone criticized them telling they wanted to provoke violence, choosing the wrong place.

So following that reasoning, the anti-govt did the same going to protest in CM...

My thinking is: everyone should be able to protest in civil way, without fire up the opposite side violence, but this seems impossible in Thailand.

CM is an open city, the thaksin supporters . in the stadium were there for many days, and for sure it was because of having the uni next door that led to fighting and deaths. a lot different than a small group trying to go down tapae road under a barrage of rocks and bottles. Your right about peaceful protests in a civil way but thats not happening with nightly attacks on protesters in BKK.

[Mystory]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

I have it official the yellow shirts where listening to classical opera, drinking water and singing Buddha songs, they where so innocent.

The red shirts where listening to Rock Music, drinking whiskey and singing kill kill kill, sorry the news forgot to put this in there one sided article.

Dont believe everything you read, this is as far fetched as the Yellow shirt protestor caught with the policemans gun. Just to make people angry.

[Emptyset]

No I wasn't condoning it at all. If you see my post I wasn't taking any side but actually said that the yellows had guts (slang term mean brave)

Keep making lame excuses. We 'll take your word for it until next post in which you inevitably agree with the political violence against all people who oppose to the red shirt movement. This is not only about this latest incident. This is how the red shirt/UDD/PTP electoral machine operates. It keeps happening time and time again.

They bully, physically intimidate, oppress and in extreme cases physically eliminate their political opponents throughout the election campaigning process. Throwing hand grenades in people's backyards and gardens just because they dare to have different political views is nothing but barbaric. And guys like you call it a democratic process. Get real.

I actually agree with Ricardo above about the entrenched regional factionalism. And like he says, there's a small, but nevertheless committed & often vocal, minority of those who might be termed 'yellow' (for want of another description - could also say anti-Thaksin if you prefer), in the North and NE. I think that's why we see more of these incidents there than elsewhere. So there's much more of a contestation between different groups than in the South, where there may be just a tiny minority of reds who tend to keep pretty quiet. The one red protest in the South I can recall reading about (by local reds) was in Phuket and they were chased out, the local PAD leader saying he wasn't happy about having red protests in his area IIRC. And of course, they had their pagoda torched. I mean, just look at the story linked above, Sek Loso being blocked from performing in Phuket just because he voiced support for elections.

If you go back to the Asia Survey, I think the reds were all from Central (including Bangkok), N, and NE regions - perhaps like 1 or 2% from the South, although they do have supporters in the Deep South. Whereas although PDRC were mostly from Central & Southern regions, they did get about 10% or so of support from the NE and N. Then you have people that don't care that much about Thaksin or the red shirts but don't support the other side either. Whereas I gather in the South, it's pretty much a given that people are Democrat supporters. North, NE, actually more plural in terms of support, so course conflict is more common. Doesn't justify it of course.

[khwaibah]

24 hours after the event a local media wakes up..

Red Shirts Attack Anti-Government Protesters in Chiang Mai Jan 6, 2014

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=2932

[Emptyset]

What did they expect? Free food and drinks like at Suthep's Bangkok rally?

If you take a dump in my backyard, don't expect to be treated nicely.

Not a good example, try public space, ya know a place that people can come and go FREELY.

Despising any form of violence, I would like anyway remember how many Suthep's supporters here told the Red Shirts going to Rajamangala Stadium tried their luck knowing they were near Ramkhamhaeng University.

Public space there too, but everyone criticized them telling they wanted to provoke violence, choosing the wrong place.

So following that reasoning, the anti-govt did the same going to protest in CM...

My thinking is: everyone should be able to protest in civil way, without fire up the opposite side violence, but this seems impossible in Thailand.

CM is an open city, the thaksin supporters . in the stadium were there for many days, and for sure it was because of having the uni next door that led to fighting and deaths. a lot different than a small group trying to go down tapae road under a barrage of rocks and bottles. Your right about peaceful protests in a civil way but thats not happening with nightly attacks on protesters in BKK.

It was only partly because of the uni next door that lead to fighting and deaths. The situation was certainly exacerbated by NSPRT deciding to move their stage temporarily to Ramkhamhaeng on the day red shirts arrived. If they hadn't have done that and decided to prevent red shirts entering the stadium by assaulting them, I reckon it would've gone pretty peacefully.

About these attacks - yes, I disagree with them... but note it's NSPRT that's attacked every time. Often scrapping with teenage motorcycle gangs like last night. The Santi Asoke haven't been attacked. It might be that with all the violence they've been involved in, grudges have developed. Rather similar to Rak Chiang Mai 51 in fact. If I recall, one of their people was killed after the 2010 protests, by unknown gunmen, and later on that year, one of their DJs was also shot dead, in circumstances suspected to be politically motivated.

Live by the sword...

[hellodolly]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

How is my post being intolerant of others. Where in my post was I taking either side?

Please tell me you have been drinking. accusing 100 people of trying to stir up a hornets nest by handing out leaflets .

Just because you disagree with them for what ever reason legal or illegal that is stretching it a bit far don't you think.

If you are not under some sort of influence stay away from the States and Canada. the J W.s would have you believe they were trying to start a rebellion.

On the other hand what do I know you might have a monthly subscription to the Watchtower and Awake.

[Big Pinkie]

assuming it wasnt just for the cameras http://video.sanook.com/player/520536/

[Smokemachine]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

yup, and is it wrong to have their own protest even though they are in the red shirt stronghold?

And many members here are talking about how undemocratic the anti-govt are.

I don't see any democracy here either.

[ikke]

Looking more and more like a cult following with each passing day. Any resistance or doubt cast on dear leader is met with a barrage of violence. Shameful, and just where is the Thai version of Ryan Hardy to fight against this evil?

Yes, a shameful post ! The violence is started by nobody else as your idol Suthep .

Please look back into history before you support Suthep, you might find a very close model in Hitler and maybe you will open your eyes, just maybe !

[hellodolly]

Looking more and more like a cult following with each passing day. Any resistance or doubt cast on dear leader is met with a barrage of violence. Shameful, and just where is the Thai version of Ryan Hardy to fight against this evil?

Being blind and blame just one side will not depict the truth.

Both sides are lead by a wannabe dictator, that will only bring Thailand to ruins.

Time will tell us...

Defiantly a lot in what you say.

But what sort of proof have you that Suthep wants to be a dictator. Calling for a government reform under Democracy principals seems far from it to me. I have yet to read where/when/if the council is picked or the election had that he wants to run it. Indeed he has not even entered the elections. It is to late for that.

I was interested in what you meant by time will tell us

Time will tell a lot given enough it will tell us the time of are death.

I agree with you that the one who has years of experience in trying to be a dictator some of them using his sister would definatly bring a lot of misery to Thailand.

The other one who is at the moment and no known record of trying to be a dictator is just trying to bring some much needed reforms to the country.

[ikke]

The nutty and violent and intolerant red shirts strike again.

Intolerant, interesting word ! That's exactly what Suthep is, thanks for remembering us .

"your" and the minority's Suthep is the most dangerous, intolerant terrorist, but you don't see it.

The German people said also after the war : "Wir haben es nicht gewusst" (we did not know it) we don't blame them, so the we (the majority) will not blame you either....have a nice sleep, one day your eyes will open.....

[hellodolly]

Looking more and more like a cult following with each passing day. Any resistance or doubt cast on dear leader is met with a barrage of violence. Shameful, and just where is the Thai version of Ryan Hardy to fight against this evil?

Yes, a shameful post ! The violence is started by nobody else as your idol Suthep .

Please look back into history before you support Suthep, you might find a very close model in Hitler and maybe you will open your eyes, just maybe !

Suthep is calling openly for a peaceful solution.

On the other hand we have red shirts under the leadership of Jatuporn with a proven record of violence to support a convicted criminal with a whole lot of money who wants to be a dictator using violence to try to achieve those ends.

Looking back on Sutheps history we find a man who stopped a man trying to be another Hitler ion Thailand. Get a history book that goes back farther than October 2013.

[newcomer71]

Looking more and more like a cult following with each passing day. Any resistance or doubt cast on dear leader is met with a barrage of violence. Shameful, and just where is the Thai version of Ryan Hardy to fight against this evil?

Being blind and blame just one side will not depict the truth.

Both sides are lead by a wannabe dictator, that will only bring Thailand to ruins.

Time will tell us...

Defiantly a lot in what you say.

But what sort of proof have you that Suthep wants to be a dictator. Calling for a government reform under Democracy principals seems far from it to me. I have yet to read where/when/if the council is picked or the election had that he wants to run it. Indeed he has not even entered the elections. It is to late for that.

I was interested in what you meant by time will tell us

Time will tell a lot given enough it will tell us the time of are death.

I agree with you that the one who has years of experience in trying to be a dictator some of them using his sister would definatly bring a lot of misery to Thailand.

The other one who is at the moment and no known record of trying to be a dictator is just trying to bring some much needed reforms to the country.

I don't want to begin again with hijacking a topic explaining why I think Suthep wants to be a dictator but:

- given the fact he did not consider at all election as a way to try to get preference of people

- given the fact he did not give any detail about his "council", and did not give any idea of how he wants to make any reform.

- given the fact of how he speak and fire up people every day

- given the fact he got the liberty to occupy government offices

- given the fact he is doing anything preventing elections to take place

- given many facts more (that I will be not writing to not annoy other users).

it gives me enough hints of what he would like to do with the back up of very influential people.

But this is only my humble opinion. I wish I will be proven wrong.

[newcomer71]

What did they expect? Free food and drinks like at Suthep's Bangkok rally?

If you take a dump in my backyard, don't expect to be treated nicely.

Not a good example, try public space, ya know a place that people can come and go FREELY.

Despising any form of violence, I would like anyway remember how many Suthep's supporters here told the Red Shirts going to Rajamangala Stadium tried their luck knowing they were near Ramkhamhaeng University.

Public space there too, but everyone criticized them telling they wanted to provoke violence, choosing the wrong place.

So following that reasoning, the anti-govt did the same going to protest in CM...

My thinking is: everyone should be able to protest in civil way, without fire up the opposite side violence, but this seems impossible in Thailand.

CM is an open city, the thaksin supporters . in the stadium were there for many days, and for sure it was because of having the uni next door that led to fighting and deaths. a lot different than a small group trying to go down tapae road under a barrage of rocks and bottles. Your right about peaceful protests in a civil way but thats not happening with nightly attacks on protesters in BKK.

I beg to differ, as anti-government people has all the rights to protest in any place, included CM, redshirts had the same rights.

Then things went in another way because here in Thailand (and reading many posts here, sadly is a worldwide trend), if you have an idea be prepared to have someone ready to smash your face because you dared to show it. You are with me, or against me. And violence seems common on both factions.

Said that: I strongly condemn whoever participated in violence yesterday, the day before, and each day since the start of the protest. Whichever side they were by.

[khunken]

Yes, whenever anyone disliked by the red shirts in CM decides to protest - they are set upon. Yes, the red shirts in the stadium at Ramkamheng were set upon by a mob (although some reports state the reds started the fighting). Yes - Sek Loso's concert was prevented in Phuket because of his apparent PTP support.

One thing is clear, even putting vote buying aside for a moment, there are areas of Thailand where prospective politicians are afraid to canvass (Udon Thani probably the worst) because of intimidation. Not how the hell can an election be called free and fair with that going on?

When one adds the local godfathers (having been paid by their master(s) handing out cash to their 'constituents' and ensuring that they vote the 'right' way, no election comes even close to being free & fair.

But I forgot - the 'deep' thinkers on TV say that it doesn't matter - democracy is all about elections and too bad if they are seriously flawed.

[wolf5370]

To this OP thread topic, and all future similar inevitable topics on this.

Division is regressive. Factionalism is failure.

Its simple. If any leader tells you that division and factionalism are the way forward, pelt him/her with rotten onions and leave him/her alone in his misery.

Only accept leaders that seek greater consensus and unity. Anything else is only going to lead to injury and death. Unify or die.

Of course all the leaders claim their goal is unity, and would all be happy if everyone united under their banner of course. Politics is all divisive - most of us (if not all) come from countries with confrontational government - as is Thailand; you can't get away from it. Leaders that come to the fore that have charisma and integrity either turn out to be just the opposite, or get chased out before they can change the status quo (everyone from Trotsky to Abhisit perhaps).

[pgrahmm]

Not as many red flags noticed in the villages as in the past around CM.....maybe they haven't been paid yet....maybe they are tired of the T's too.......maybe the thugs are hiding.......

Interesting stuff.......

[Ricardo]

I actually agree with Ricardo above about the entrenched regional factionalism. And like he says, there's a small, but nevertheless committed & often vocal, minority of those who might be termed 'yellow' (for want of another description - could also say anti-Thaksin if you prefer), in the North and NE. I think that's why we see more of these incidents there than elsewhere. So there's much more of a contestation between different groups than in the South, where there may be just a tiny minority of reds who tend to keep pretty quiet. The one red protest in the South I can recall reading about (by local reds) was in Phuket and they were chased out, the local PAD leader saying he wasn't happy about having red protests in his area IIRC. And of course, they had their pagoda torched. I mean, just look at the story linked above, Sek Loso being blocked from performing in Phuket just because he voiced support for elections.

If you go back to the Asia Survey, I think the reds were all from Central (including Bangkok), N, and NE regions - perhaps like 1 or 2% from the South, although they do have supporters in the Deep South. Whereas although PDRC were mostly from Central & Southern regions, they did get about 10% or so of support from the NE and N. Then you have people that don't care that much about Thaksin or the red shirts but don't support the other side either. Whereas I gather in the South, it's pretty much a given that people are Democrat supporters. North, NE, actually more plural in terms of support, so course conflict is more common. Doesn't justify it of course.

I'm not sure there are more incidents up here than elsewhere, I would accept that the reaction is often greater, thanks to 51 Rak Chiang Mai however, I recall at least one incident of them attacking another Red-Shirt group, with whom they disagreed. Perhaps the local Reds are also just more-extreme than some other places ? Out of some misguided sense of loyalty to the former-PMs' family-connections to the area, or for more murky reasons ?

The blocking of Sek Loso, in the Phuket Red-Cross fund-raiser, is perhaps similar to the Rak Chiang Mai view that permitting a gay-awareness event was somehow going to cast dishonour on true Lanna identity ? Both are good examples of a lack-of-tolerance for alternative POVs, which is very undemocratic indeed, and is definitely to be condemned.

Regarding the non-Red proportion of Chiang Mai voters, I recall vaguely FWIW that PPP only got 60-65% of the total vote in December-2007, it's only subjective and I wouldn't have a source for my recollection, this long after the event. It would be interesting to see the percentage-vote achieved by PTP in July-2011, by region, in fact it might be interesting to track trends over a few recent elections, if anyone is better-than-me at data-searching ?

Sadly I don't see the emergence of truly-national political-parties, with national campaigning & constructive development-policies, being permitted by the current regional power-brokers, why would they (established or newly-arrived amart) ever encourage that ?

Edited January 6, 2014 by Ricardo

[Boxclever]

This is how dissenting voices are treated in Redland. But of course the elections will be free and fair.

How would dissenting voices be treated in yellowland? Any different you think?

[diehard60]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

If you were a "Red shirt" and you went to bangkok to hand out leaflets what do you think would happen to you? Just saying.

[philw]

Looking more and more like a cult following with each passing day. Any resistance or doubt cast on dear leader is met with a barrage of violence. Shameful, and just where is the Thai version of Ryan Hardy to fight against this evil?

Being blind and blame just one side will not depict the truth.

Both sides are lead by a wannabe dictator, that will only bring Thailand to ruins.

Time will tell us...

Defiantly a lot in what you say.

But what sort of proof have you that Suthep wants to be a dictator. Calling for a government reform under Democracy principals seems far from it to me. I have yet to read where/when/if the council is picked or the election had that he wants to run it. Indeed he has not even entered the elections. It is to late for that.

I was interested in what you meant by time will tell us

Time will tell a lot given enough it will tell us the time of are death.

I agree with you that the one who has years of experience in trying to be a dictator some of them using his sister would definatly bring a lot of misery to Thailand.

The other one who is at the moment and no known record of trying to be a dictator is just trying to bring some much needed reforms to the country.

Dolly, please tell us exactly reforms Suthep has specified.

[diehard60]

This is how dissenting voices are treated in Redland. But of course the elections will be free and fair.

Of course. You will be freely paid so you can fairly vote for the Thaksin thug of choice.

It is not just one PARTY that tries to buy votes. They all do get it right.

[chooka]

entering a red shirt strong hold and trying to stir up a hornets nest

by "handing out leaflets"

Seems some forum members share the red shirts' intolerance of anyone else.

If you were a "Red shirt" and you went to bangkok to hand out leaflets what do you think would happen to you? Just saying.

Ask the taxi driver and he didn't even go that far as to hand out leaflets.

[wolf5370]

What did they expect? Free food and drinks like at Suthep's Bangkok rally?

If you take a dump in my backyard, don't expect to be treated nicely.

Not a good example, try public space, ya know a place that people can come and go FREELY.

Despising any form of violence, I would like anyway remember how many Suthep's supporters here told the Red Shirts going to Rajamangala Stadium tried their luck knowing they were near Ramkhamhaeng University.

Public space there too, but everyone criticized them telling they wanted to provoke violence, choosing the wrong place.

So following that reasoning, the anti-govt did the same going to protest in CM...

My thinking is: everyone should be able to protest in civil way, without fire up the opposite side violence, but this seems impossible in Thailand.

I understand your logical thread, but I feel it is somewhat off mark. The reason is that it is not a geographical issue so much as a time issue. The Red Shirts that descended to Bangkok, bussed in from far afield, where there because there was a peaceful protest going on that they did not agree with - it was a purely confrontational move. I don't know if the Anti-Gov protestors are locals or all the way from Bangkok, but goal is obviously non confrontational, otherwise they would not have changed their route and method of locomotion so much. Again it has been the Red Shirts that have been confrontational. In a democracy people should be allowed to protest peacefully and to be able to hand out leaflets without fear of attack.