Fat shaming rhetoric on this forum has gotten out of hand

[sbk]

Really unnecessary post deleted and responses to those posts.

It is sad when a thread that calls for an end to abusive and unhelpful posts results directly in someone doing that very thing.

So, lets make this clear, constructive comments are welcome but pointless nasty and unhelpful ones are not.

[JSixpack]

oh please... tired of the same old B.S.

Ah, if only calling it B.S. really made it B.S. Life would be good then, no?

Low carb might work

Oh, definitely DOES work--for everyone, not just special cases as you'd like. If you'd have followed it from the beginning, you wouldn't have developed your insulin problems. And it's the easiest to do and to maintain, and thus has the greatest chance of success.

I won't bother googling up sources for you. No more spoonfeeding, remember? Not that it would do any good.

but it still requires action.. to change something.. to take control. Just like with everything else.

Yep. But again you have such a hard time distinguishing differences. It's just all so complicated, sorry.

You see, it's a much different, much easier action than the classic starvation, work-your-butt -off-in-the-gym (perhaps dangerous for the overweight), no-skin-on-your-chicken, worry-'bout-them-calories-at-every-meal, calories in/calories out prescription that you understand--and which has such a remarkably low success rate. Why waste your breathe on it? Is there an overweight person on the planet who hasn't already tried it?

I dare you to experiment with me to eat loads of fat and protein excess of 3000 calories a day and stay lean. Acting like it means you can eat all you want and the whole energy expenditure equation goes out of the window is B.S.

Alas, you still can't understand the concept of all calories not being equal because our bodies don't treat them equally. It's just too complicated for you, man.

Nor do you understand what the low carb diet is really all about, diet-wise, and so you distort and exaggerate it. Being hung up on calories in/calories out and a childish misapplication of The Law Of Thermodynamics leaves you blind. Sorry! If it makes you feel better, I once thought as you did. But I was smart enough to wise up. Hence I post here sometimes to try to help others. I seem to have had some success, too. I suggest anyone interested in weight loss research low-carb for themselves and just try it a few months. Takes only about two weeks to get over the cravings for starches and sugar. And see what all you can eat without worrying about calorie counting.

Best thing for you to do is eat 3000 calories per day from sugar and see what happens in comparison to eating 3000 calories per day from broccoli. Hint: do the broccoli after the sugar.

Cheers!

[robblok]

@jsixpack (sorry quoting did not work because you mangled the post a bit to make it look clear)

No you are saying you can eat as much as you want on low cal, that is what i dispute. I don't dispute that 3000 calories of broccoli will be better for you. (assuming you can eat that much).

The law of thermodynamics do still work as there is no such things as 0 calories. Some low carb people state (and i though it was you too) that you can eat as much as you want if you don't eat carbs as there wont be insulin to store stuff as fat ( a lie as the body adapts to that).

That is the only thing i dispute in low carb, that you can eat all you want. I don't dispute you can eat more as you would be able to eat on fast food. (question is how much more but that is an other debate)

[Jingthing]

Hint -- I did start this thread to elevate the issue of some problems with the TONE of this forum in general.

I think the "little incident" being resolved here as a learning opportunity, and also the fact there are some others that recognize the problem I tried to shed some light on are a positive thing, perhaps a move in the right direction towards more general understanding that insulting fat people as a class is just not helpful on a health oriented forum.

What constitutes an insult will sometimes be subjective. Which is why I have asked here that people look into themselves and consider acting out as their BETTER selves on this supposed to be helpful forum.

For example, there is someone who seems to randomly post comments like:

No fat people in death camps!

rather regularly and predictably.

Personally I find that kind of comment horribly disgusting and offensive and nothing to do with modern obesity struggles (like we're going to put fat people in concentration camps!?!? and that would be good for them!?!), while others might see it as a bold way of expressing orthodox belief in energy in - energy out models of obesity. We're not likely to agree on that, but can't some of you see how a comment with that tone is just NASTY?

But here it is, yet another "debate" about low carb diets. Does every thread need to be about the exact same thing? I really don't get it.

[robblok]

Hint -- I did start this thread to elevate the issue of some problems with the TONE of this forum in general.

I think the "little incident" here and also the fact there are some others that recognize the problem I tried to shed some light on are a positive thing, perhaps a move in the right direction towards more general understanding that insulting fat people as a class is just not helpful on a health oriented forum.

But here it is, yet another "debate" about low carb diets. Does every thread need to be about the exact same thing? I really don't get it.

Sorry JT but I always rise to the challenge. Cant be helped.

[robblok]

As for the tone of the forum, except for a few fools (and they are certainly not a majority) there is no problem at all. Is the problem maybe that they don't all agree with your soft method.

Thing is JT idiots that post stuff as fat pig are just that idiots and should be ignored.

[FiftyTwo]

Hint -- I did start this thread to elevate the issue of some problems with the TONE of this forum in general.

I think the "little incident" here and also the fact there are some others that recognize the problem I tried to shed some light on are a positive thing, perhaps a move in the right direction towards more general understanding that insulting fat people as a class is just not helpful on a health oriented forum.

But here it is, yet another "debate" about low carb diets. Does every thread need to be about the exact same thing? I really don't get it.

We can talk about extreme exercise as the only way to lose weight if you like.

[Jingthing]

We can talk about extreme exercise as the only way to lose weight if you like.

Huh? Again the topic here is about people insulting fat people on a health oriented forum. It's not about diet tips or exercise tips.

[Jingthing]

As for the tone of the forum, except for a few fools (and they are certainly not a majority) there is no problem at all. Is the problem maybe that they don't all agree with your soft method.

Thing is JT idiots that post stuff as fat pig are just that idiots and should be ignored.

Well I don't agree with you at all. I think the nasty tone is widespread here. You just throw a snarky label on me "soft" well fairness in kind, you seem really heavily personally invested in suggesting the problem I brought up here is nothing.

[robblok]

As for the tone of the forum, except for a few fools (and they are certainly not a majority) there is no problem at all. Is the problem maybe that they don't all agree with your soft method.

Thing is JT idiots that post stuff as fat pig are just that idiots and should be ignored.

Well I don't agree with you at all. I think the nasty tone is widespread here. You just throw a snarky label on me "soft" well fairness in kind, you seem really heavily personally invested in suggesting the problem I brought up here is nothing.

Of if you feel my attitude is a problem then yes indeed you got a problem as most people seem to think that obese people need to take control themselves. You feel insulted and shamed by everything then.

I only see the idiots with their stupid fat pig remarks as over the limit. But you seem to think everything that is not to you liking is fat shaming.

[Jingthing]

As for the tone of the forum, except for a few fools (and they are certainly not a majority) there is no problem at all. Is the problem maybe that they don't all agree with your soft method.

Thing is JT idiots that post stuff as fat pig are just that idiots and should be ignored.

Well I don't agree with you at all. I think the nasty tone is widespread here. You just throw a snarky label on me "soft" well fairness in kind, you seem really heavily personally invested in suggesting the problem I brought up here is nothing.

Of if you feel my attitude is a problem then yes indeed you got a problem as most people seem to think that obese people need to take control themselves. You feel insulted and shamed by everything then.

I only see the idiots with their stupid fat pig remarks as over the limit. But you seem to think everything that is not to you liking is fat shaming.

I never said that. You are putting words in my mouth. It seems you are very sensitive about this issue. I can't help how you feel. You are trying to make this thread about your personal differences with me. Please -- NO!

If you (or anyone else) doesn't feel inspired to personally adjust your personal tone on this forum to one that is more positive/helpful/non-judgmental, that is your every right within the rules of the forum. A forum can be poisoned in its tone without any rule violations. I have made it clear from the start my point wasn't about rule violations, that's not my concern, but the TONE.

[robblok]

As for the tone of the forum, except for a few fools (and they are certainly not a majority) there is no problem at all. Is the problem maybe that they don't all agree with your soft method.

Thing is JT idiots that post stuff as fat pig are just that idiots and should be ignored.

Well I don't agree with you at all. I think the nasty tone is widespread here. You just throw a snarky label on me "soft" well fairness in kind, you seem really heavily personally invested in suggesting the problem I brought up here is nothing.

Of if you feel my attitude is a problem then yes indeed you got a problem as most people seem to think that obese people need to take control themselves. You feel insulted and shamed by everything then.

I only see the idiots with their stupid fat pig remarks as over the limit. But you seem to think everything that is not to you liking is fat shaming.

I never said that. You are putting words in my mouth. It seems you are very sensitive about this issue. I can't help how you feel. You are trying to make this thread about your personal differences with me. Please -- NO!

You are taking your words back suggesting I have heavily personally invested in saying its nothing. Sounds like me your suggesting a lot JT

I an others don't see that much problems, except for those few idiots. There are like 4 posters or so who all say this. If you suggest there is more besides those idiot posters that everyone condemn then your on your own.

[Jingthing]

You've expressed yourself. You for one don't agree there is a real problem. You are not everyone. I think you are probably right that the majority here who post doesn't see this as a big problem, so the majority rules. I still think there are plenty of people who would want to seek help on this forum, read a few threads, and realize they are going to be insulted, and/or read the common global condemnations of all fat people, and decide to pass feeling this isn't a friendly/helpful space like they would REASONABLY expect in any other kind of health forum. For some reason the subject of FAT inspires all kinds of blame/shame/guilt games that most other health problems do not. That's my theory, believe it or not.

[robblok]

You've expressed yourself. You for one don't agree there is a real problem. You are not everyone. I think you are probably right that the majority here doesn't see this as a big problem, so the majority rules. I still think there are plenty of people who would want to seek help on this forum, read a few threads, and realize they are going to be insulted, and/or read the common global condemnations of all fat people, and decide to pass. That's my theory, believe it or not.

Yes I expressed myself and so did the majority (now we got a tyranny of the majority) except your vocal enough to fight against it.

I believe that calling people fat pigs and such is way over the top, calling people to take action is not. Nothing wrong with putting the ball int he court of the one that wants to loose weight. Unfortunately it does not happen automatic.

I have 2 pet hates.. one is people who complain about how hard it is but are not willing to do enough to change it and the other is people who do a lot and are ridiculed because there is not enough progress. (they seem at odd but are not)

[robblok]

JT you edited..

Reason why fat inspires all kind of blame shame and guilt is that mainly it is something people can (to a degree) change. This is not the case for many other diseases. Many other things you can't really change while this you can up to a certain limit also you don't wake up fat overnight. I know I did not. It is something where the person him or herself needs to take action in. (supported if possible)

[Jingthing]

Fat shamers see all fat people as the same. The truth each each and every one of them has their own story. How they got that way, why they got that way, what they have or haven't done to try and solve the problem, etc. On a health forum, any generalities about ALL fat people are simply not helpful.

As far as calling people to action, not sure what you mean. Never knew a fat person that did take action that didn't decide THEMSELVES to take the action. That is where the motivation comes from. Deep inside each person.

[Jingthing]

JT you edited..

Reason why fat inspires all kind of blame shame and guilt is that mainly it is something people can (to a degree) change. This is not the case for many other diseases. Many other things you can't really change while this you can up to a certain limit also you don't wake up fat overnight. I know I did not. It is something where the person him or herself needs to take action in. (supported if possible)

Dude, I agree and have said before there is a morality element in obesity. There is a morality element in a LOT of diseases, btw.

For examples --

Cancer -- poor diet choices, smoking, too long in the sun, etc. etc.

HIV - sexual behavior, drug use

But you're fooling yourself if you don't see that the morality element in obesity is OVEREMPHASIZED and out of balance. As I said before, you wouldn't DARE start insulting Aids sufferers morality on an HIV forum, but here, it is always OK to some degree to harp on that the obese brought it on themselves. That they have no control. That they are somehow low value human beings for not having solved their problem.

Quite simply, being aware of the morality elements in obesity and many other diseases, I am suggesting in a HEALTH FORUM that the blame game / guilt game / morality game be toned down substantially with the goal of being more HELPFUL.

No, again, not a Fat Liberation party. The health issues with obesity are undeniable. It's not a condition to be celebrated. But again, I'm suggesting a more helpful BALANCE.

[ignis]

JT it is nothing new, people have been makeing these remarks for many years.. can remember people says what a fat baby, it got worse at school often hatfull and pick on the fat boy - then teenager.. often people would get a shock when I stood up at 6 ft 3, I am non to small hight wise.

20 odd years ago that all changed... someone was nice and called me a Bear, from that day on I am no longer the fat man... I am a Big Papa Bear..

P.S. some are just born big... My grandfather is 98 and 2 Uncles 79 and 84 are a lot biggen than me.. they all have been the same size for the 63 years I have been here..

[Jingthing]

ignis, yes of course, you are talking about open society in general though.

I am suggesting that a forum dedicated to a class of people with a specific HEALTH ISSUE (here related to overweight and obesity) would be ideally at a higher level of discourse.

Anyway ...

[robblok]

JT you edited..

Reason why fat inspires all kind of blame shame and guilt is that mainly it is something people can (to a degree) change. This is not the case for many other diseases. Many other things you can't really change while this you can up to a certain limit also you don't wake up fat overnight. I know I did not. It is something where the person him or herself needs to take action in. (supported if possible)

Dude, I agree and have said before there is a morality element in obesity. There is a morality element in a LOT of diseases, btw.

For examples --

Cancer -- poor diet choices, smoking, too long in the sun, etc. etc.

HIV - sexual behavior, drug use

But you're fooling yourself if you don't see that the morality element in obesity is OVEREMPHASIZED and out of balance. As I said before, you wouldn't DARE start insulting Aids sufferers morality on an HIV forum, but here, it is always OK to some degree to harp on that the obese brought it on themselves. That they have no control. That they are somehow low value human beings for not having solved their problem.

Quite simply, being aware of the morality elements in obesity and many other diseases, I am suggesting in a HEALTH FORUM that the blame game / guilt game / morality game be toned down substantially with the goal of being more HELPFUL.

No, again, not a Fat Liberation party. The health issues with obesity are undeniable. It's not a condition to be celebrated. But again, I'm suggesting a more helpful BALANCE.

For some reason i feel dude is an insult.. (we all view things differently you too)

But the one major difference between obesity and cancer hiv ect is that obesity is something that can be reversed but needs commitment from the obese person. You can't do that with the others you mentioned. I think its the difference in participation that sets it apart.

Just a guess though but I could be right.

[Jingthing]

Oy vey, dude!
I never said obesity was exactly the same as other health conditions!

But it is a health condition and this is a HEALTH FORUM where in my opinion the PURPOSE of which is to be helpful, not to put on a non-stop BLAME / MORAL PREACHY game.

You seem to be saying and I TOTALLY disagree that it is OK to overemphasize the guilt / blame / shame / morality aspect of obesity on a HEALTH forum because the differences between obesity and OTHER health problems are just that great. We'll never agree on this. Never, ever.

But relax. I think you won this. This joint will remain the rude to fat people place it is, even continuing to not challenge people who have clearly never even been fat, to pop in here to hurl insults. This would most certainly not be OK on a health forum for ANY OTHER health problem, but fatness, sure, go for it!

Enjoy your victory. Cheers.

(Dude is whatever you think it is, but is has nothing to do with disrespecting fat people on a HEALTH forum which is the issue I raised here.)

[robblok]

Oy vey, dude!

I never said obesity was exactly the same as other health conditions!

But it is a health condition and this is a HEALTH FORUM where in my opinion the PURPOSE of which is to be helpful, not to put on a non-stop BLAME / MORAL PREACHY game.

You seem to be saying and I TOTALLY disagree that it is OK to overemphasize the guilt / blame / shame / morality aspect of obesity on a HEALTH forum because the differences between obesity and OTHER health problems are just that great. We'll never agree on this. Never, ever.

But relax. I think you won this. This joint will remain the rude to fat people place it is, even continuing to not challenge people who have clearly never even been fat, to pop in here to hurl insults. This would most certainly not be OK on a health forum for ANY OTHER health problem, but fatness, sure, go for it!

Enjoy your victory. Cheers.

Thanks for crediting me a victory.

But I thought we were looking for reasons why people look different at obese people then HIV cancer and such. Not giving our personal opinion of why we think something.

I don't condone shaming but we obviously have a different idea of what shaming is.

[Chopperboy]

The best way to loose fat is to cut out SUGAR & FRUCTOSE as near completely as possible and lower alcohol consumption which is made from fructose anyhow. One of the biggest problems is that the liver makes fat and does so increasingly with age, for example a cow can make fat from only eating. grass.

Check out: Sugar: The Bitter Truth

[Jingthing]

No we don't have a different idea of hard core fat shaming.

We do have a different idea on what is the PROPER TONE for ANY forum related to ANY health problem.

I never said this topic was only about hard core fat shaming. It's weird to have to repeat this same point so many times.

Maybe reread my comments because I think I am done with this thread.

I tried. It was hopeless. I failed. It would never happen like this (to be basically DOMINATED by morality preaching and worse) on any other health forum topic but that's the way it is here. I know when I'm beat. I may have a hot keyboard but I'm no alpha male. PEACE!

[sbk]

Post deleted. We are NOT going to make this personal about one member, is that clear? Really unacceptable behavior.

[singa-traz]

Looks like my last post have been misunderstood.

Note to self: Never underestimate the power of denial and the resistance to change.

[singa-traz]

Oy vey, dude!

I never said obesity was exactly the same as other health conditions!

But it is a health condition and this is a HEALTH FORUM where in my opinion the PURPOSE of which is to be helpful, not to put on a non-stop BLAME / MORAL PREACHY game.

You seem to be saying and I TOTALLY disagree that it is OK to overemphasize the guilt / blame / shame / morality aspect of obesity on a HEALTH forum because the differences between obesity and OTHER health problems are just that great. We'll never agree on this. Never, ever.

But relax. I think you won this. This joint will remain the rude to fat people place it is, even continuing to not challenge people who have clearly never even been fat, to pop in here to hurl insults. This would most certainly not be OK on a health forum for ANY OTHER health problem, but fatness, sure, go for it!

Enjoy your victory. Cheers.

(Dude is whatever you think it is, but is has nothing to do with disrespecting fat people on a HEALTH forum which is the issue I raised here.)

Tell a obese/overweight "gravity challenged" person that a change of behavior is needed/required and you are labeled as a RUDE / INSULTING person, who is playing the "Blame/Preachy game".

Suggest that "gravity challenged" person should develop some form of personal accountability, and you just commited a crime.

We should not be confusing "being helpful" with "avoiding unconfortable discussion".

It is my belief that some very active/prolific members on this forum, are not just un-helpful, but actually harmful to other "gravity challenged" people, by refusing to acknowledge their own role in their overweight situation.

"There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see"

[sbk]

Seems we cant avoid but make this personal and argumentative. Of a mind to just suspend the both of you since you seem to have difficulty playing nicely in the sandbox.

//CLOSED//