Yingluck survives NACC's investigation over senatorial charter amendment bill

[tingtongteesood]

I don't understand what they are charged with? "Their role in passing the bill"

Passing a bill that is later deemed unconstitutional is somehow illegal? This seems to go a bit far. How many laws have passed through the US Congress, been signed by a president, then been declared unconstitutional by the supreme court? Should all these congresspersons and presidents be charged?

The bill was deemed unconstitutional, you win, move on...

This is the same as saying 'the thief was caught red handed in the stolen car, but they got the car back, he shouldn't be punished, just let him go' and he will go straight out and steal another one. They knew it was wrong when they did it and they did it anyway. They should be punished. There should be much stiffer punishment for political wrongdoing. Immediate lifetime bans if the charge is upheld through evidence in court.

[Halion]

The lesson to be learned her is that the senior members have manipulated their own part members and are now throwing them to the wolves to save their own ass.

[Arkady]

It would have been tough to pin anything on her on this one, as PT carefully kept her out of Parliament to allow her to claim she had no clue about any legislation pushed by her government.

The Rice Pledging scheme is another matter because she was chairman of the committee. The NACC seems to have been dragging its heels in investigating this.

[jayboy]

It would have been tough to pin anything on her on this one, as PT carefully kept her out of Parliament to allow her to claim she had no clue about any legislation pushed by her government.

The Rice Pledging scheme is another matter because she was chairman of the committee. The NACC seems to have been dragging its heels in investigating this.

This is unbelievable bizarro world stuff.No doubt it makes sense to Arkady and other extremists but in the rational world at large (and for that matter for most Thais) the NACC decision is seen as absurd and irrelevant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/world/asia/308-thai-lawmakers-face-anticorruption-inquiry.html?ref=world&_r=0

As the New York Times points out, the parliamentarians are being punished for doing their jobs.Why on earth cannot the the junta imposed constitition not be amended? Why should not a more democratic Senate be contemplated? Plenty to argue about but corruption on the part of those who voted for democracy? Madness.

Macbeth's witches had it right

"Fair is foul and foul is fair"

[gerry1011]

This is exactly why she seldom attends parliament - plausible deniability. We all know Thaksin gave the orders, then she told the cronies those orders and they do everything on the Shin's behalf....detritus

To me it proves that she is much smarter than everyone else.

She implements the strategy but diffuse the responsibility between many people, has MPs acting as a screen between her opponents, herself and the government, lets the ministers handle the problems, separates clearly the tasks and responsibilities of the PT MPs and the PT government, makes the departments in charge reply to the opposition's attacks, ... and this makes so that she walk out smiling from all situation, making her critics go crazier each time

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Edited January 8, 2014 by gerry1011

[473geo]

The first thing to note is that this charge involves a bill that the Constitution Court has already deemed to be unconstitutional. The second is that investigations of this charge are still in effect for most of the remaining MPs. The third thing is that the Constitution Court may very well hold the trump card as to whether Pheu Thai survives as a party and government based on the promotion and support of this bill.

Looks like the coup train is on schedule. For those that want to have some Tuesday fun, I reccomend reading the Thai constitution and then contrasting the actual text to the judgements of the constitutional court. Start with the amendment procedures set forth in section 282.

As for these "corruption" charges they merely formalize what many of us have been suspecting, I.e. that when people talk about their disdain for "Corruption" what they actually mean by "Corruption" is "Democracy".

The converse is also true. When PTP talk of their love for "Democracy" what they actually love is the "Corruption" this faux democracy entitles them to. And with 90% of their supporters unable to grasp the concept of democracy beyond "one man one vote" is it any wonder that they wallow in corruption like pigs in muck.

In your world Mick! Corruption is not sustained by one party only, however it would appear Democracy is, and suprisingly not by the democrats or Suthep!

Edited January 8, 2014 by 473geo

[rametindallas]

I don't understand what they are charged with? "Their role in passing the bill"

Passing a bill that is later deemed unconstitutional is somehow illegal? This seems to go a bit far. How many laws have passed through the US Congress, been signed by a president, then been declared unconstitutional by the supreme court? Should all these congresspersons and presidents be charged?

The bill was deemed unconstitutional, you win, move on...

It seems the bill was forged/falsified from earlier drafts when submitted to the Senate

[CantSpell]

Stealing a car is illegal, drafting/passing a bill is not. In the US, there are bills drafted every year that deal with restrictions on abortion, restrictions on gun rights, restrictions on speech. These bills are sometimes found to be partially or completely unconstitutional (Obamacare was deemed partially unconstitutional, so I guess Obama and the legal team and the congresspersons who passed it should be "punished"). Writing bills and amending the constitution are the only jobs our representatives have, our representatives are not legal scholars. The representatives write and vote on bills, the courts determine legality of said bills.

"They knew it was wrong..." They knew what was wrong? Please be specific as to their wrongdoing, because drafting/voting/passing/signing an amendment is their job.

They were supposed to pass a bill already approved...

They changed it at the last minute for a totally different one and voted on the fake, un-approved one, that is what was wrong..

"ninja-ing" a total fake bill to serve their master and voting it at 04.25 am when all oppositions were gone already..

Short term memory lose or you were not here last month?

[rametindallas]

The charter amendment should have never been reviewed by the court and should not have been ruled unconsitutional. That would make the 1997 constitutional unconstitutional in which the senate was compleyely elected.

The 1997 Constitution was voted on by the entire country and it had to get a certain minimum percent of the voting population (not percent of votes cast). Did you think just any majority ruling party can change the constitution to suit themselves. If that were true, then the majority party could change the Constitution to make all parties that are not controlled by Thaksin illegal. Get real.

[kirk0233]

The charter amendment should have never been reviewed by the court and should not have been ruled unconsitutional. That would make the 1997 constitutional unconstitutional in which the senate was compleyely elected.

The 1997 Constitution was voted on by the entire country and it had to get a certain minimum percent of the voting population (not percent of votes cast). Did you think just any majority ruling party can change the constitution to suit themselves. If that were true, then the majority party could change the Constitution to make all parties that are not controlled by Thaksin illegal. Get real.

In July 2012 the Constitutional Court dismissed opposition party petitions challenging the Puea Thai party's ability to amend the country's constitution. The court ruled that the parliament could amend the constitution on a piecemeal basis by amending separate articles, but that a national referendum would be required to rewrite the entire charter. Hey get real

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[bigbamboo]

It would have been tough to pin anything on her on this one, as PT carefully kept her out of Parliament to allow her to claim she had no clue about any legislation pushed by her government.

The Rice Pledging scheme is another matter because she was chairman of the committee. The NACC seems to have been dragging its heels in investigating this.

This is unbelievable bizarro world stuff.No doubt it makes sense to Arkady and other extremists but in the rational world at large (and for that matter for most Thais) the NACC decision is seen as absurd and irrelevant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/world/asia/308-thai-lawmakers-face-anticorruption-inquiry.html?ref=world&_r=0

As the New York Times points out, the parliamentarians are being punished for doing their jobs.Why on earth cannot the the junta imposed constitition not be amended? Why should not a more democratic Senate be contemplated? Plenty to argue about but corruption on the part of those who voted for democracy? Madness.

Macbeth's witches had it right

"Fair is foul and foul is fair"

The 'junta imposed constitution' was actually supported by the people who voted for it in larger numbers than those who voted for the current government. It was the attempt to amend this constitution on the sly that caused the current chaos.

The senate issue is a tricky one. Ideally there should be an elected upper house but not one which is made up of assorted relatives of the lower one. Votes should be held in the senate not over the family dining table.

[pookiki]

I don't understand what they are charged with? "Their role in passing the bill"

Passing a bill that is later deemed unconstitutional is somehow illegal? This seems to go a bit far. How many laws have passed through the US Congress, been signed by a president, then been declared unconstitutional by the supreme court? Should all these congresspersons and presidents be charged?

The bill was deemed unconstitutional, you win, move on...

Totally agree! Either bring some logic to the whole situation OR just put EVERYBODY in jail.

[truk39]

Stealing a car is illegal, drafting/passing a bill is not. In the US, there are bills drafted every year that deal with restrictions on abortion, restrictions on gun rights, restrictions on speech. These bills are sometimes found to be partially or completely unconstitutional (Obamacare was deemed partially unconstitutional, so I guess Obama and the legal team and the congresspersons who passed it should be "punished"). Writing bills and amending the constitution are the only jobs our representatives have, our representatives are not legal scholars. The representatives write and vote on bills, the courts determine legality of said bills.

"They knew it was wrong..." They knew what was wrong? Please be specific as to their wrongdoing, because drafting/voting/passing/signing an amendment is their job.

They were supposed to pass a bill already approved...

They changed it at the last minute for a totally different one and voted on the fake, un-approved one, that is what was wrong..

"ninja-ing" a total fake bill to serve their master and voting it at 04.25 am when all oppositions were gone already..

Short term memory lose or you were not here last month?

It is you who have memory loss...the amnesty bill was passed at 4:25 am. Here we are discussing the constitutional amendment regarding the composition of the senate, please do keep up.

[truk39]

I don't understand what they are charged with? "Their role in passing the bill"

Passing a bill that is later deemed unconstitutional is somehow illegal? This seems to go a bit far. How many laws have passed through the US Congress, been signed by a president, then been declared unconstitutional by the supreme court? Should all these congresspersons and presidents be charged?

The bill was deemed unconstitutional, you win, move on...

It seems the bill was forged/falsified from earlier drafts when submitted to the Senate

Thank you for the information...been trying to find more on that...do you have a source/link?

[truk39]

It would have been tough to pin anything on her on this one, as PT carefully kept her out of Parliament to allow her to claim she had no clue about any legislation pushed by her government.

The Rice Pledging scheme is another matter because she was chairman of the committee. The NACC seems to have been dragging its heels in investigating this.

This is unbelievable bizarro world stuff.No doubt it makes sense to Arkady and other extremists but in the rational world at large (and for that matter for most Thais) the NACC decision is seen as absurd and irrelevant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/world/asia/308-thai-lawmakers-face-anticorruption-inquiry.html?ref=world&_r=0

As the New York Times points out, the parliamentarians are being punished for doing their jobs.Why on earth cannot the the junta imposed constitition not be amended? Why should not a more democratic Senate be contemplated? Plenty to argue about but corruption on the part of those who voted for democracy? Madness.

Macbeth's witches had it right

"Fair is foul and foul is fair"

The 'junta imposed constitution' was actually supported by the people who voted for it in larger numbers than those who voted for the current government. It was the attempt to amend this constitution on the sly that caused the current chaos.

The senate issue is a tricky one. Ideally there should be an elected upper house but not one which is made up of assorted relatives of the lower one. Votes should be held in the senate not over the family dining table.

"...voted for it in larger numbers..." By what measurement do you make this assertion? The 2007 constitution received 14.7 Million "For" votes...PTP received 15.7 Million votes in 2011 (if you consider the votes cast for PTP & their coalition partners the "current government" received about 17 Million votes). The constitutional referendum only saw 57% voter turnout...2011 general election had 66% voter turnout.

[Thait Spot]

This is exactly why she seldom attends parliament - plausible deniability. We all know Thaksin gave the orders, then she told the cronies those orders and they do everything on the Shin's behalf....detritus

To me it proves that she is much smarter than everyone else.

She implements the strategy but diffuse the responsibility between many people, has MPs acting as a screen between her opponents, herself and the government, lets the ministers handle the problems, separates clearly the tasks and responsibilities of the PT MPs and the PT government, makes the departments in charge reply to the opposition's attacks, ... and this makes so that she walk out smiling from all situation, making her critics go crazier each time

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Its a positively Mafioso organisation

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[Thait Spot]

Stealing a car is illegal, drafting/passing a bill is not. In the US, there are bills drafted every year that deal with restrictions on abortion, restrictions on gun rights, restrictions on speech. These bills are sometimes found to be partially or completely unconstitutional (Obamacare was deemed partially unconstitutional, so I guess Obama and the legal team and the congresspersons who passed it should be "punished"). Writing bills and amending the constitution are the only jobs our representatives have, our representatives are not legal scholars. The representatives write and vote on bills, the courts determine legality of said bills.

"They knew it was wrong..." They knew what was wrong? Please be specific as to their wrongdoing, because drafting/voting/passing/signing an amendment is their job.

They were supposed to pass a bill already approved...

They changed it at the last minute for a totally different one and voted on the fake, un-approved one, that is what was wrong..

"ninja-ing" a total fake bill to serve their master and voting it at 04.25 am when all oppositions were gone already..

Short term memory lose or you were not here last month?

It is you who have memory loss...the amnesty bill was passed at 4:25 am. Here we are discussing the constitutional amendment regarding the composition of the senate, please do keep up.

He is correct.

Read the news articles on the illegal passage of both the paperwork and the vote

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[dukebowling]

Finally a logical ruling. Something the Constitutional Court should follow by example instead of ripping up the constitution and abusing their power. Can someone file charges against these criminals that have no right to rule on constitutional amendments?

Everyone seems confused that the court ruled on a bill. It was not a bill (or organic law), it was a constitutional amendment of which they are not part if the approval process.

[A1Str8]

Of course she survived. Nobody wanted to kill her. It was just an investigation.

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[animatic]

Perhaps the NACC thought she attended parliament under duress.

Pish tosh, and bosh,

she is NEVER under dressed!

[rametindallas]

I don't understand what they are charged with? "Their role in passing the bill"

Passing a bill that is later deemed unconstitutional is somehow illegal? This seems to go a bit far. How many laws have passed through the US Congress, been signed by a president, then been declared unconstitutional by the supreme court? Should all these congresspersons and presidents be charged?

The bill was deemed unconstitutional, you win, move on...

It seems the bill was forged/falsified from earlier drafts when submitted to the Senate

Thank you for the information...been trying to find more on that...do you have a source/link?

Forum rules prevent giving a link because it is in the 'other' English language daily; if you get my drift. Another, balanced, source of good stories is a website called: 2bangkok.com

[Arkady]

It would have been tough to pin anything on her on this one, as PT carefully kept her out of Parliament to allow her to claim she had no clue about any legislation pushed by her government.

The Rice Pledging scheme is another matter because she was chairman of the committee. The NACC seems to have been dragging its heels in investigating this.

This is unbelievable bizarro world stuff.No doubt it makes sense to Arkady and other extremists but in the rational world at large (and for that matter for most Thais) the NACC decision is seen as absurd and irrelevant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/world/asia/308-thai-lawmakers-face-anticorruption-inquiry.html?ref=world&_r=0

As the New York Times points out, the parliamentarians are being punished for doing their jobs.Why on earth cannot the the junta imposed constitition not be amended? Why should not a more democratic Senate be contemplated? Plenty to argue about but corruption on the part of those who voted for democracy? Madness.

Macbeth's witches had it right

"Fair is foul and foul is fair"

The 'junta imposed constitution' was actually supported by the people who voted for it in larger numbers than those who voted for the current government. It was the attempt to amend this constitution on the sly that caused the current chaos.

The senate issue is a tricky one. Ideally there should be an elected upper house but not one which is made up of assorted relatives of the lower one. Votes should be held in the senate not over the family dining table.

"...voted for it in larger numbers..." By what measurement do you make this assertion? The 2007 constitution received 14.7 Million "For" votes...PTP received 15.7 Million votes in 2011 (if you consider the votes cast for PTP & their coalition partners the "current government" received about 17 Million votes). The constitutional referendum only saw 57% voter turnout...2011 general election had 66% voter turnout.

You can't count the SME parties in this. They follow the money and go with any party that offers them lucrative cabinet portfolios.

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