can you explain this to someone who doesnt really follow thai politics

[celso]

I don't really know the difference between the reds or yellow, but I know that in London, if a minority of people declared they were going to "shut down" the city, they would be deemed terrorists. The police would come down hard on protest sites and beat the crap out of anyone who resisted. Tear gas, water cannons, no problem.

If the protests were big enough that the police couldn't do it alone, the army would be brought in. Anyone who refused would be sacked for not doing their job.

So how is it these protesters aren't being arrested? Either for terrorism or for trying to overthrow the government? I know Thailand is laid back.. but I cant believe nothing is being done to them. I've seen the protesters, there is no way they would stick around after a good healthy dose of police brutality.

I also lived in Colombia for a time. There any little protest would result in the police coming along, blasting water cannons and shooting tear gas until it dispersed. If police here don't do jack, no wonder some group has the balls to try and shut down the city!

Edited January 11, 2014 by celso

[FiftyTwo]

It's cos the yellow protestors are paid by all the rich and influential Thai people.

[farang000999]

The army is controlled by the opposition.

The police are an entrepreneurial entity in Thailand and there is no money in arresting 2,000,000 protesters and charging them with terrorism, especially when the people paying and organizing those terrorists could squash you like a bug.

PS: We saw those students rioting and looting in your country and the only thing your police force provided was comic relief with those silly hats.

[Costas2008]

" if a minority of people declared they were going to "shut down" the city "

You haven't got your numbers right.

For your information .......this is the majority speaking.

[FiftyTwo]

" if a minority of people declared they were going to "shut down" the city "

You haven't got your numbers right.

For your information .......this is the majority speaking.

If it's the majority speaking, why can't they win any elections ..... ever.

Yellows have only ever won by coup.

[seajae]

seems a lot of newbies to TV since these protests started ask the same kind of question, " I don't really know the difference between the reds or yellow, but". Looks like they think its ok for the reds to do it as in 2010 but no one else. What about the riots in London a few years back, deaths, robberies, racial violence to the max, no one to control it, just let it run its course but you know, it doesnt happen in the UK does it.

[Prbkk]

" if a minority of people declared they were going to "shut down" the city "

You haven't got your numbers right.

For your information .......this is the majority speaking.

Well, there were many delusional people in Athens who claimed to be in a majority, rioting in the streets over EU/IMF conditions. They believed that the rest of Europe ( or the world) owed them a living and the continuation of an unsustainable lifestyle. In Thailand, many have a similarly misguided sense of entitlement, but in this case that they should enjoy all the rights and privileges themselves while happily denying a share of sovereign wealth to other groups ( aka unbridled greed)

[wym]

3-2-1. . .

Escalating the conflict and "cracking down" against the opposition would not help the red's/government's cause.

It's a PR game, and they can feel pretty secure that the only way the yellows will win long-term is to get the voting population on their side.

The fact that the yellows haven't been able to do so is in my opinion because either they aren't coordinated or organized enough to pool their resources - let's face it in all the world's pseudo-democracies, all it really takes is money, or (more likely IMO) that their pride in their traditional position above all the hoi polloi prevents them from even trying to make the effort, they honestly feel they shouldn't have to stoop to such tactics.

[FiftyTwo]

The fact that the yellows haven't been able to do so is in my opinion because either they aren't coordinated or organized enough to pool their resources - let's face it in all the world's pseudo-democracies, all it really takes is money, or (more likely IMO) that their pride in their traditional position above all the hoi polloi prevents them from even trying to make the effort, they honestly feel they shouldn't have to stoop to such tactics.

The yellows can't win because nobody votes for them.

Doesn't matter how good your organisation is, without the votes (or at very least the men counting the votes) you can't win.

[Donnie Brasco]

It's cos the yellow protestors are paid by all the rich and influential Thai people.

Naw. Not really.

Much the same as back in the Old Country.

The yellow protesters are HYPNOTIZED by rich and influential people.

[StreetCowboy]

I think income tax tax-payers predominantly vote Democrat. People outside the income tax brackets predominantly vote for this Government and it's parties. Is that a reasonably accurate summary?

I think if you loiok at where the income tax payers are, you'll find they are very heavily concentrated in a few urban areas.

I look forward to someone providing some evidence one way or the other on these claims

SC

Edited January 11, 2014 by StreetCowboy

[Mosha]

It's cos the yellow protestors are paid by all the rich and influential Thai people.

So are the reds, what's your point. These protesters are donating to the cause, and here yesterday in the village, they were asking for donations to take to Bangkok. No pressure to donate.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Mosha

[wym]

How is that relevant?

Are you proposing going back to archaic versions of democracy that only allowed property owners of a certain race to vote?

[FiftyTwo]

It's cos the yellow protestors are paid by all the rich and influential Thai people.

So are the reds, what's your point

The reds would still vote red without the money.

And there are a lot more of them (Issan and Lanna people + all farmers countrywide).

[culicine]

Nothing is ever done to stop protesters because both sides of the political spectrum are dirty and corrupt. They know a hard crackdown will come back to bite them when they lose power.

The democrats have never won an election because they have done seemingly done nothing for a large portion of the electorate for decades. Just look at the state of schools in the north-east to see what I mean.

Thaksin's promises of money and quick fixes is enough to encourage enough voters to vote for them. Sadly, most folks cant see beyond their own pockets and short term gain. They will see the error of their ways with this government, when the economy has imploded. They are now seeing what populist policies are doing - the government had run of of money to pay farmers, but their voting base didn't see that coming.

As it stands, no current party is supportive of the long term development of the country, especially the education sector.

[wym]

Nothing is ever done to stop protesters because both sides of the political spectrum are dirty and corrupt. They know a hard crackdown will come back to bite them when they lose power.

The democrats have never won an election because they have done seemingly done nothing for a large portion of the electorate for decades. Just look at the state of schools in the north-east to see what I mean.

Thaksin's promises of money and quick fixes is enough to encourage enough voters to vote for them. Sadly, most folks cant see beyond their own pockets and short term gain. They will see the error of their ways with this government, when the economy has imploded. They are now seeing what populist policies are doing - the government had run of of money to pay farmers, but their voting base didn't see that coming.

As it stands, no current party is supportive of the long term development of the country, especially the education sector.

I agree with most of what you write, but the quality of Thai schools is abysmal across the board, not just in rural areas and certainly not more so in the Isaan.

That problem is not capable of being solved no matter who is in control, until fundamental aspects of Thai society changes or they outsource the whole enterprise to another country (my vote would be Singapore).

[celso]

 

" if a minority of people declared they were going to "shut down" the city "

You haven't got your numbers right.

For your information .......this is the majority speaking.

Go ahead and please show me your numbers then.

[celso]

 

seems a lot of newbies to TV since these protests started ask the same kind of question, " I don't really know the difference between the reds or yellow, but". Looks like they think its ok for the reds to do it as in 2010 but no one else. What about the riots in London a few years back, deaths, robberies, racial violence to the max, no one to control it, just let it run its course but you know, it doesnt happen in the UK does it.

2010 is when burned shut down, and an Italian journalist got shot? I don't know more about it than that.

And in London people were arrested. Crowd control wasn't used so much because there weren't large congregations of protesters, it was random gangs looting. And obviously it wasn't terrorism, it was theft and violence, there was no aim to destroy London.

BUT look to the London mayday protests that threatened the financial institutions of the city, and see how the police responded. Surrounded them, didn't let anyone escape, pulled out anyone starting violence. No teargas or watercannons in the UK, I think because of European Union law forbidding them. But horses, dogs, and other means were used. Bangkok hosted APEC, so it must have a fairly decent security force.

And obviously, look at how the UK police respond to anyone plotting Islamic terrorism in the capital, arrested way before the time.

Edited January 11, 2014 by celso

[tx22cb]

In the US, if the POTUS did something naughty, the impeachment process would kick in, and there would be an established process of investigation.

Many Representatives and Senators have a Legal background - so we tend to follow the rule of law and due diligence.

As a nation of entrepreneurs and capitalists, we tend to avoid damaging our cities/economy too much.

If one political party finds it hard to win an election (e.g. the Republicans), we go back to the drawing board and adjust our strategy for the next elections (how to win votes from Af-Ams, get bigger share of the growing Latino populace, adjust our stance vs women issues).

[Prbkk]

In the US, if the POTUS did something naughty, the impeachment process would kick in, and there would be an established process of investigation.

Many Representatives and Senators have a Legal background - so we tend to follow the rule of law and due diligence.

As a nation of entrepreneurs and capitalists, we tend to avoid damaging our cities/economy too much.

If one political party finds it hard to win an election (e.g. the Republicans), we go back to the drawing board and adjust our strategy for the next elections (how to win votes from Af-Ams, get bigger share of the growing Latino populace, adjust our stance vs women issues).

Yes, agree. But in the US ( and Australia, Canada, UK, NZ, Germany,Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland,most of Europe )the difference between the competing parties is negligible....at the margins only. For reasons well known to everyone,in Thailand the difference is fundamental ( the ONLY thing they have in common is the passionate pursuit of self-enrichment)

[Donnie Brasco]

In the US, if the POTUS did something naughty, the impeachment process would kick in, and there would be an established process of investigation.

Many Representatives and Senators have a Legal background - so we tend to follow the rule of law and due diligence.

As a nation of entrepreneurs and capitalists, we tend to avoid damaging our cities/economy too much.

If one political party finds it hard to win an election (e.g. the Republicans), we go back to the drawing board and adjust our strategy for the next elections (how to win votes from Af-Ams, get bigger share of the growing Latino populace, adjust our stance vs women issues).

Naw. Absolute American Exceptionalist rubbish.

You seem you seem to be quoting from some secondary school textbook.

Your country is run by Banks and Corps and your Military.

The BANKS couldn't care which of their stooges gets elected.

The nonsense and dogma you spout is just that.

(Apologies if you couldn't find the facetious irony emoticon.)

[geriatrickid]

" if a minority of people declared they were going to "shut down" the city "

You haven't got your numbers right.

For your information .......this is the majority speaking.

Only in your imagination.

Tell you what. Let's put your claim to the test and have an election. The winner gets to form the next government, ok?

[geriatrickid]

People have short memories. One need only look at the violence that accompanies G8 & G20 summits to see that Thailand isn't so different.

Some of the EUs riots have bordered on anarchy. France - 1968, the economy came to a standstill, as there was a general strike and millions ran amuck. In the USA there were the violent riots in LA and Detroit that saw the cities set on fire. Even in the wildest moments of the Redshirt protetsts, the loss of life and physical damage was nothing compared to the show the Americans put on. Even recently in the USA following the Rodney King incident, we saw a city shut down, people living in fear and parts of the city burnt to the ground. Last year, in Canada student protestors ran wild in Quebec, damaging the economy and eventually being an instrumental factor in the defeat of the provincial government. In Vancouver, british Columbia, rioters trashed the downtown core, with only a small number of rioters and looters arrested and facing charges. in Australia we have been treated to the Cronulla riots.The 2010 student and anarchist riots in England cost the country in excess of 100 million pounds for the direct damages alone.

Know what, I'd take my chances with a Thai riot any day over the lunacy that goes on elsewhere. At least the Thai events have food and something to drink.

[kikoman]

The Burning of Cities in the US was a response to the Duel system of Justice in the US, one for White and the rich, one of minorities and the poor. reaction to Rodney King, Marcus Frye, (RE: Police Brutality) in their arrest by the police. The Assassination of Martin Luther King.

Much like what is going on in Thailand, where the rich and the old ruling class are fighting for "All" the riches of Thailand (That is rightfully only theirs to steal) where they deal with their inability to win elections by overthrowing the elected government in the name of "Democracy" where their way they want to deal with the majority of the Thai voters is to deny them a right to vote, Yes take away their voting rights!

Who is so mistaken to believe Thailand is not racing headlong into civil unrest (hopefully not into civil war) I have always thought that Thais always found a way from destroying their country, now I am extremely worried about the rising resentment against the protesters in Bangkok in rural Thailand.

The rural folks know why the OP's questions are valid, because the army, the EC, the courts are made up of members of the old power structure that is backing the protest, the army is closely aligned with the protesters, the E. C. members instead of preparing the nation to vote on February the 2nd, are actively refusing to prepare the country for elections.

Suthep is hoping that the army will intervene on his side, when violence breaks out in Bangkok, and it will!

When the army intervenes the country will explode in a real peoples revolt.

I hope cooler heads will prevail!

Cheers

[seajae]

Trouble is that a lot of posters are either pro red or pro yellow and not pro Thailand. Thing is that most of the protesters are actually not yellow aligned, they are ordinary every day people that are fed up with all the corruption and politically inspired policies. Trying to have thaksin cleared of wrong doing along with all those that were accused of graft for the benefit of the ptp was simply wrong, even the reds didnt want it.

The rice scam is exactly that, the ptp refuse to clarify how much they have lost on it and where all the rice is, the so called flood prevention that had billions on it is a total failure and they want even more to spend. The crap with senate elections was laughable, they wanted it changed to be able to vote in all their family etc that would make it a total shonk. What we are seeing are the people saying we have had enough, they want laws that stop convicted criminals from ever being involved in politics, they want their taxes spent on the country not used to buy votes and line politician pockets.

The yellows are pro money and the reds are pro thaksin, both groups are as useless as tits on a bull and bith groups need to be removed from the equation. Suthep is an idiot and while he is leading the protests a lot do not agree with what he wants, they simply want what is best for Thailand and that is remove the ptp and thaksin as well as stop the hi-so from getting whatever they please.

The country needs change, they need laws that stop anyone from lining their pockets, they need laws that give life bans to those politicians that are criminal in any way, they need laws that make all people equal in the face of the law, they need laws that will jail criminals and not give them free passes because of who they are or money. We need a govt that will not pass legislation that is designed to help their cause but purely for the betterment of Thailand.

Until everyone can put aside their bias this will not happen, when honesty becomes the cornerstone, the reds, yellows, ptp/thakin as well as suthep are all judged on their actions they will be totally sidelined because people will not abide by their lies, innuendo, graft and violence. Trouble is, where do we find someone that is honest and sincere enough to lead this country out of the quagmire it now resides in. Having a police force that is honest and willing to arrest criminals(thaksin/suthep) would be great too along with a govt that will issue arrest warants and remove passports of said criminals.

[FiftyTwo]

Trouble is that a lot of posters are either pro red or pro yellow and not pro Thailand. Thing is that most of the protesters are actually not yellow aligned, they are ordinary every day people that are fed up with all the corruption and politically inspired policies. Trying to have thaksin cleared of wrong doing along with all those that were accused of graft for the benefit of the ptp was simply wrong, even the reds didnt want it.

I'm not pro-red, not pro-yellow, but I am anti-Thailand (as an economic success).

It isn't my country, and they are never gonna let it be my country.

I'm a great believer in self interest.

The worse Thailand does as a country, the better I do as a retired expat living in Thailand.

The more my money is worth, and the more poor girls there are looking for lunch.

Trouble is that a lot of posters don't understand disaster for Thailand is money in the bank for them.

Edited January 12, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[Thai at Heart]

Its impossible for people.outside thailand to grasp how corrupt Thailand is. It is also impossible for people outside thailand to understand how gullible the thai people are.

Thaksin and Suthep are both cut from the same cloth and yet they both have very loyal supporters. They are both horrendously corrupt and yet here they are. Somewhere near thr top of thai society.

In the uk Suthep would have left parliament long ago for his role in the land scandal and thaksin wouldn't have ever become prime minister.

[Rooo]

Policy In General Regarding Thailand Election/Political Discussions

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[Rooo]

Policy In General Regarding Thailand Election/Political Discussions

As a result of the great increase in posts about politics in Thailand, we are requesting that members keep political discussion confined to threads already open in the Thailand News Forum.
Non-political topics in General which are hijacked with political arguments will see posts removed without further notice.

Members who cannot comply with our request will risk a posting suspension.

Thanks for your understanding and participation on Thaivisa.

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