Thai Army strongly slams Thaksin’s lawyer, Robert Amsterdam

[falangadang]

Love how everyone throws around the "D" word (Democracy). And none of them know the true meaning of it.

Including those in the "democratic" west who are living under totaltiatrian and dictatorial rule as free slaves to debt and the unconstitutional laws that have been methodically introduced over recent times and thus only offering a pale illusion of democracy when really its an autocratic fascist system under which they live!

True democratic government in this world is something that is virtually nonexistent. It is an illusion created by the elite to keep the masses happy and keep them voting in legion after legion of self interested and power wielding nutjobs that really only care for their own power and the control that goes with it.

[renaissanc]

Thaksin is waging the propaganda "war" on several fronts. He has ordered his lap dog Amsterdam to try to brainwash the international media. The UDD is brainwashing the rural people. He has control of the Thai media so as to brainwash the rest. He is also using the Police to spread propaganda. He's determined to win at all costs. His personal agenda will unfortunately bring the Thai economy to its knees. He and his clan will go down in Thai history for all the wrong reasons.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[laobali]

robert amsterdam is an absolute asshol_e!

Do you disagree vehemently about what he wrote or just hate him because he's Thaksin's lawyer?

[thesetat2013]

From the way my thai wife best describes the armys' policies! The army is not here for the government to order around like a policeman. Their sole purpose is to protect thai people from harm wether that harm is from inside or outside of thailand. This includes protecting them from harm caused by a corrupted government. They don't care about politics except when it is causing the thai people to harm each other. Hence the statement they made a few days ago that the pm and democratically voted for government will be held responsible if there is blood shed during this protest. Their main job is protecting thai people! Not thai democracy.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fasteddie]

Love how everyone throws around the "D" word (Democracy). And none of them know the true meaning of it.

Please enlighten us oh wise one.

[trogers]

From the way my thai wife best describes the armys' policies! The army is not here for the government to order around like a policeman. Their sole purpose is to protect thai people from harm wether that harm is from inside or outside of thailand. This includes protecting them from harm caused by a corrupted government. They don't care about politics except when it is causing the thai people to harm each other. Hence the statement they made a few days ago that the pm and democratically voted for government will be held responsible if there is blood shed during this protest. Their main job is protecting thai people! Not thai democracy. Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly! See my post of #21 on the first page.

The army did respond before, but not for the presevation of a corrupt government and its puppeteer. The same puppeteer of Mr. Amsterdam.

[Thait Spot]

The really foolish thing is that the Army has bothered to issue this press release rebutting Amsterdams statement.

Obviously as Mr Amsterdam is not in Thailand, the Army are unable to invoke the arcane defamation laws that are regularly used to silence critics,

The irony is by responding to the accusations, without offering anything in defense, but only to say Amsterdam is persona non grata it would appear to most observers that the article has substance.

Lets face it, a quick google will show that many of these claims are indeed factually correct.

The Army would be better of saying nothing, the only effect it has is digging themselves deeper into the hole they are already in.

i think its Taksin and his regime which have dug their own hole. You are totally naive and mistaken if you think the army really could give a toss but they have thank goodness shown their hand cleverly as yet another warning shot to Taksin that he will not be allowed to simply take over Thailand

In any case everyone has right to refute any accusation made against them particularly from someone totally on Taksins side and paid by him. Even if he claims he no longer acts for Taksin its more than likely that he's still paid under the table so that he can claim he's unbiased What a load of BS

weather its legal or not I doubt he will dare come back to Thailand unless Taksin does succeed in making here into his own dictatorship when he probably would be awarded the Taksin medal of honour for upholding democracy in Thailand

Obviously the Army do give a toss otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to reply.

The fact is that much of what is written is correct and is borne out by the Armys history within Thailand,

Of course they have a right to refute the allegations but they offer no alternative narrative to Amsterdams claims.

They would be much better off not acknowledging these accusations because to do so just draws more attention to them.

You, like others, are so blinded by your hate of Thaksin that you are unable to see the situation in broader terms or accepting that the flaws within Thai society stretch far beyond this one man.

To imagine that somehow the eradication of Thaksin and his family will return Thailand to some sort of Utopian society is risible.

This article by Amsterdam has substance and affiliation with Thaksin doesn't change that.

So far in this dispute the army has said the right thing and done the right thing. Talking historically has quite rightly upset the army.

The only person trying to suck the army in is Yingluck so her party can blame them if it goes wrong. I'm sure the red shirts are not at one with her on this.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ozymandias]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

I presume you are from New Zealand. Setting aside the obvious lack of balance in your post here, I wonder: would you be happy if the NZ army considered itself unaccountable to the government in your home country? Would you consider NZ a democracy if the army could pick and choose which government it took orders from, according to its political colour?

If this doesn't help you to acquire more perspective, here are some tips:

1. Take a deep breath (perhaps meditate for a while)

2. Forget the demon Thaksin and the (possibly in your eyes) saintly Suthep for a moment.

3. Remember 2010, when the army felt free to take orders from the then-coalition government (with saintly Suthep as deputy PM) and subsequent evidence showed it as close to certain that their bullets killed many of the 90 protesters.

4. Imagine how the families of the 2010 dead will feel if the current protests turn ugly and the army stages a coup (it didn't in 2010, did it?)

4. Open your eyes and ask: have I acquired more perspective? Have I begun to see that there are indeed two sides to this?

Failing that, have another rant and stay amongst the rank and file red/yellow, whose stance appears to be: 'la la la la la not listening I'm right and you're wrong la la la la'.

[LadPhrao1]

Thank you Thai Army for, I'm sure inadvertently, revealing Robert Amsterdam's website which is full of very interesting and factual information. Detailed information available on the military, Democrat party and the corruption of the Judicial system. Information surely detrimental to all the Thaksin haters, Yingluck haters, tools of Abhisit and the Democrat Party and of course the many Thai visa Forum members with their lips wrapped around the codpiece of Suthep. Read it and weep. Your fact free days of demagoguing on the Shinawatras is at sunset.

[moonao]

Amsterdam said “Of course, “neutral” in the Thai context, means that you tacitly and explicitly accept anti-democratic forces as a given, natural part of the political discourse. Neutrality in this instance is a non-existent opportunistic chimera created purely to divert a proper analysis of the real conditions within which the Thai Army operate.”

He went on saying “what is clear is that until the Thai Army is brought under lawful, accountable, democratic and civilian control it will act as a force hindering Thailand’s struggling – yet burgeoning – democracy;

+1 Good analysis by amsterdam.

The Thai army is a relic from the middle ages and desperately needs reform

[Ozymandias]

From the way my thai wife best describes the armys' policies! The army is not here for the government to order around like a policeman. Their sole purpose is to protect thai people from harm wether that harm is from inside or outside of thailand. This includes protecting them from harm caused by a corrupted government. They don't care about politics except when it is causing the thai people to harm each other. Hence the statement they made a few days ago that the pm and democratically voted for government will be held responsible if there is blood shed during this protest. Their main job is protecting thai people! Not thai democracy. Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly! See my post of #21 on the first page.

The army did respond before, but not for the presevation of a corrupt government and its puppeteer. The same puppeteer of Mr. Amsterdam.

Wow! The naivety of this post almost took my breath away. And (no surprise) it's from another farang who relies upon his Thai wife for information on current affairs. Presumably it has not occurred to this poster that the Thai army's main agenda is to preserve and extend its own power base, which means to preserve the elite status quo which has safeguarded its position and status (not to mention its finances) for close to a century. Nope, it's not that at all, it's an army that operates out of love.

One question: if it only wants the best for Thai people, then why is it not accountable to them and the governments they elect as in countries with genuine democracies? Why not read up on what this 'loving' army did in 1973 and 1976? Don't know what I'm talking about? I'm guessing your wife wouldn'thave spoken much about then, would she?

[wave]

The really foolish thing is that the Army has bothered to issue this press release rebutting Amsterdams statement.

Obviously as Mr Amsterdam is not in Thailand, the Army are unable to invoke the arcane defamation laws that are regularly used to silence critics,

The irony is by responding to the accusations, without offering anything in defense, but only to say Amsterdam is persona non grata it would appear to most observers that the article has substance.

Lets face it, a quick google will show that many of these claims are indeed factually correct.

The Army would be better of saying nothing, the only effect it has is digging themselves deeper into the hole they are already in.

i think its Taksin and his regime which have dug their own hole. You are totally naive and mistaken if you think the army really could give a toss but they have thank goodness shown their hand cleverly as yet another warning shot to Taksin that he will not be allowed to simply take over Thailand

In any case everyone has right to refute any accusation made against them particularly from someone totally on Taksins side and paid by him. Even if he claims he no longer acts for Taksin its more than likely that he's still paid under the table so that he can claim he's unbiased What a load of BS

weather its legal or not I doubt he will dare come back to Thailand unless Taksin does succeed in making here into his own dictatorship when he probably would be awarded the Taksin medal of honour for upholding democracy in Thailand

Obviously the Army do give a toss otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to reply.

The fact is that much of what is written is correct and is borne out by the Armys history within Thailand,

Of course they have a right to refute the allegations but they offer no alternative narrative to Amsterdams claims.

They would be much better off not acknowledging these accusations because to do so just draws more attention to them.

You, like others, are so blinded by your hate of Thaksin that you are unable to see the situation in broader terms or accepting that the flaws within Thai society stretch far beyond this one man.

To imagine that somehow the eradication of Thaksin and his family will return Thailand to some sort of Utopian society is risible.

This article by Amsterdam has substance and affiliation with Thaksin doesn't change that.

So far in this dispute the army has said the right thing and done the right thing. Talking historically has quite rightly upset the army.

The only person trying to suck the army in is Yingluck so her party can blame them if it goes wrong. I'm sure the red shirts are not at one with her on this.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They should never have responded to this article as they are unable to refute the content.

What right do they have to try to obscure their past misdeeds anyway.

The Army, funnily enough, will have a blanket Amnesty if anything goes wrong (good for them huh?)

They will not be held accountable if it all goes south and to be frank, if it does, it will be because of their own political bias.

The statements they have been coming out with over the last few weeks are obtuse and do nothing but muddy the waters.

They should either put up or shut up.

[JRSoul]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

I presume you are from New Zealand. Setting aside the obvious lack of balance in your post here, I wonder: would you be happy if the NZ army considered itself unaccountable to the government in your home country? Would you consider NZ a democracy if the army could pick and choose which government it took orders from, according to its political colour?

If this doesn't help you to acquire more perspective, here are some tips:

1. Take a deep breath (perhaps meditate for a while)

2. Forget the demon Thaksin and the (possibly in your eyes) saintly Suthep for a moment.

3. Remember 2010, when the army felt free to take orders from the then-coalition government (with saintly Suthep as deputy PM) and subsequent evidence showed it as close to certain that their bullets killed many of the 90 protesters.

4. Imagine how the families of the 2010 dead will feel if the current protests turn ugly and the army stages a coup (it didn't in 2010, did it?)

4. Open your eyes and ask: have I acquired more perspective? Have I begun to see that there are indeed two sides to this?

Failing that, have another rant and stay amongst the rank and file red/yellow, whose stance appears to be: 'la la la la la not listening I'm right and you're wrong la la la la'.

You seem to forget that when the RTA obeyed government orders to be involved in a political dispute in 2010, they were subsequently vilified for it by the same people making the request now. They have supplied UNARMED troops for crowd control, but the only orders I can see they are disobeying is again supplying armed soldiers to act against protesters, and who are far less violent than those in 2010.

Perhaps the RTA might reconsider when the M-79s and RPGs start flying. However it seems clear that the majority of violence is being directed AT protesters and not coming from them. But I'm sure Amsterdam's little shot will persuade them to reconsider whether to support inept hypocrite criminals or not.

[EricBerg]

The moralising mr. Amsterdam resembles a bargirl in denial.

Edited January 11, 2014 by EricBerg

[diehard60]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

I think you need to go back fishing because look who is going to be the REAL dictator - suthep.

[rwhoov]

One question: Why do they always make the phrase "fugitive Thanksin"? He was in New York for a meeting at the U.N. when the coup occurred. It was made clear he was not welcome to come back. For one accused of so much corruption, it took a year to come up with the charges with which they tried him in absentia. A year?! Like him or hate him, you have to admit that any civil/legal rights he had were hardly tenable. Nevertheless, the press continues to use the adjective "fugitive" before his name. Is that really fair?

[rwhoov]

The moralising mr. Amsterdam resembles a bargirl in denial.

Wearing your blinders again, I see.

[Thait Spot]

One question: Why do they always make the phrase "fugitive Thanksin"? He was in New York for a meeting at the U.N. when the coup occurred. It was made clear he was not welcome to come back. For one accused of so much corruption, it took a year to come up with the charges with which they tried him in absentia. A year?! Like him or hate him, you have to admit that any civil/legal rights he had were hardly tenable. Nevertheless, the press continues to use the adjective "fugitive" before his name. Is that really fair?

So while his good friend Samak, his brother in law Somchai and his kid sister Yingluck were at the helm he was unwelcome?

Popular chap!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

From the way my thai wife best describes the armys' policies! The army is not here for the government to order around like a policeman. Their sole purpose is to protect thai people from harm wether that harm is from inside or outside of thailand. This includes protecting them from harm caused by a corrupted government. They don't care about politics except when it is causing the thai people to harm each other. Hence the statement they made a few days ago that the pm and democratically voted for government will be held responsible if there is blood shed during this protest. Their main job is protecting thai people! Not thai democracy. Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So is she a 2-star general or a 3-star general? Or maybe she's an instructor at the military academy. If neither, she should be both because that's the indoctrination line of the Thai military.

In most democracies the army is used in extreme instances when the police and civil authorities can no longer contain an insurrection or a civil disturbance.

The army presently is in a pickle. The days of the "bloodless coup" if they ever existed are gone. If the army conducts a coup under the present circumstances, it's going to have to shoot a lot of Thai people of all kinds. That's what happens in a civil conflict.

If the army instead were under the civilian authority of the government, it would not be a factor at all except at the order of the civilian government and in the most extreme of circumstances. I would say if the army were under the control of elected civilian government, people would go home and the election scheduled for Feb 2 would be proceeding as authorized under the constitution.

The army obeyed the orders of the unelected government in 2010. And now it's threatening the fully elected government in 2014.

The army killing Thais is looking to be a habit. When's it going to start protecting civilians, the Thai people?

[kingstonkid]

Aw but if I am correct is the Army not an arm of the monarch?

Besides that I can never understand the feeble mind in Dubai.

The army would probably been somewhat willing to help if not for the fact that the same <deleted> that charged them with being murderers is the one asking them to step up and help them.

I personally think that the Army has done an outstanding job with this. They have at all times been willing to talk have offered to mediate and not allowed any of the military to get involved in any way.

Now saying that i do believe that the Army acting for the people and the King are going to have to step in.

Niether child wants to become an adult. they both want to play their own game in the sandbox and to hell with sharing.

The EC, has tried to get them together business has tried Now it is up to the military to become DADDY and tell the children to send their little friends home and have a family discussion. As punishment there will be no internet or phone privilege for either child until this is resolved. They will not be allowed to go play with their friends and must stay home. (a 5 star hotel would be nice or military barracks).

No media no cameras all security to be by the military and be strictly accountable to the General directly. They may want to allow a couple of countries to assist with the agreement being that if anything is leaked that diplomatic ties with that country will cease.

Anyone else tht is asked to come in and give advice will be told that if they talk to the media or the media gets any information abut what they spoke about they will go to jail for 3 years (do not collect 200 dollars)

UAE will be informed again that the gentleman that is visiting them is a wanted criminal and unless they put pressure on him to be silent that they will face sanctions and be accused in UN circles of being a safe haven for criminals.

that should shut every one up and then they can start to get things done.

[marcusd]

he is right the army has already refusing to follow lawful directions from the elected government

Can you explain LAWFULLY ELECTED? Does that mean people with little education being offered money to SIGN HERE or THREATENED as my friends partners family was, to sign a ballot paper is lwfully lected.

In fact Ban Pai or however it is spelled, had REDS with guns stand over the WHOLE village to make them vote for SHIN CLAN.

Now if that is democracy I want to start my own country

[trogers]

From the way my thai wife best describes the armys' policies! The army is not here for the government to order around like a policeman. Their sole purpose is to protect thai people from harm wether that harm is from inside or outside of thailand. This includes protecting them from harm caused by a corrupted government. They don't care about politics except when it is causing the thai people to harm each other. Hence the statement they made a few days ago that the pm and democratically voted for government will be held responsible if there is blood shed during this protest. Their main job is protecting thai people! Not thai democracy. Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly! See my post of #21 on the first page.

The army did respond before, but not for the presevation of a corrupt government and its puppeteer. The same puppeteer of Mr. Amsterdam.

Wow! The naivety of this post almost took my breath away. And (no surprise) it's from another farang who relies upon his Thai wife for information on current affairs. Presumably it has not occurred to this poster that the Thai army's main agenda is to preserve and extend its own power base, which means to preserve the elite status quo which has safeguarded its position and status (not to mention its finances) for close to a century. Nope, it's not that at all, it's an army that operates out of love.

One question: if it only wants the best for Thai people, then why is it not accountable to them and the governments they elect as in countries with genuine democracies? Why not read up on what this 'loving' army did in 1973 and 1976? Don't know what I'm talking about? I'm guessing your wife wouldn'thave spoken much about then, would she?

Were you even born yet in 1973 and 1976? Might as well screw the present US Army for what they did in Vietnam...

This society rests on 3 pillars - the court, the army and the politicians.

What has happened in the past 2 years is that the pillar of politicians had tried to uproot all check and balances, and thus, they are facing the consequences.

[marcusd]

robert amsterdam is an absolute asshol_e!

He is a SOLCITOR, a blood sucking leach, a parasite on society. Money wherever it can be obtained and excaliming JUSTICE FOR ALL (for all that can pay that is)

[kingstonkid]

A question to the Brits, Aussies and canucks out there?

How long do you think this could go on in your country before the military and other people were told to step in and stop it.

[noikrit]

Thai Lawyers obviously aren't good enough for Thaksin no more .........

Edited January 11, 2014 by noikrit

[devaram]

As I recall when Thaksin was prime minister he behaved more like third world banana republic dictator without much regard for democracy and it was a bit of a relief when the army ousted him. I was kind of proud of them for staging such a skillful bloodless coup. If anything the army should be laughing at such hypocricy coming from the lawyer of a ruthless dictator?

The military is central to the culture here and has been for a thousand years so its not easy to simply step aside and allow selfish civilians to have their way every time. I think they dont like Suthep as well but are tring to follow a very difficult middle ground and I think they deserve some credit.

The lawyer should keep quiet as it only increases the hostility against YL

[MaiChai]

Maybe Amsterdam should substitute army with police in his blog?

[Valentine]

One question: Why do they always make the phrase "fugitive Thanksin"? He was in New York for a meeting at the U.N. when the coup occurred. It was made clear he was not welcome to come back. For one accused of so much corruption, it took a year to come up with the charges with which they tried him in absentia. A year?! Like him or hate him, you have to admit that any civil/legal rights he had were hardly tenable. Nevertheless, the press continues to use the adjective "fugitive" before his name. Is that really fair?

He has actually been convicted & sentenced even though he promised he would return after the Olympic games. He did not bother to lodge an appeal & he is wanted on far more serious charges.

[Alwyn]

Army in every country is a backward force. Their structure is not democratic, is secretive, outside public scrutiny.

In countries like Thailand, where political system is not democratic and where there are large and strong authoritarian currents, army is a status quo force, holding any progress.

You call yourself Londonthai and make a statement like that? If indeed you are a London person you might have hear about the marine who just got banged up for life for topping an Al Qaeda person who was trying to kill him and his mates 5 minutes earlier. Where's the secrecy there? I think it public scrutiny that got the poor bloke a life sentence. How could you say such a thing?