Thai Army strongly slams Thaksin’s lawyer, Robert Amsterdam

[fleeing]

Perhaps the most unsettling thing about Amsterdam's 'contribution' at this time, is that, considering that lawyers rarely break wind let alone put pen to paper without payment, Mr T clearly still hasn't grasped that he is not returning to Thailand, unless it is to sit out his sentence, and possibly face further charges.

Looking at how sides are squaring up against each other right now, such a move from the (un)wanted one will only encourage even more fence-sitters to side with the demonstrators in Bangkok.

Could it be that Mr T/PTP/his clone really only see their salvation in the military getting more involved?

[marcusd]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

I think you need to go back fishing because look who is going to be the REAL dictator - suthep.

Maybe you shuld up your medication dose. SUTHEP cannot be leader. If the government is OVERTHROWN then the ARMY will have to step in or the King appoint a leader and that leader would most likely be the leader of the oposition as SUTHEP has RESIGNED from his parliamentary position to lead and stage these protests. Maybe I was too harsh on you, increase your lense strength in your glasses so you do not miss anything.

[rickirs]

Army in every country is a backward force. Their structure is not democratic, is secretive, outside public scrutiny.

In countries like Thailand, where political system is not democratic and where there are large and strong authoritarian currents, army is a status quo force, holding any progress.

In most "Western" democratic societies, the military is under civilian government control with accountable transparency. Albeit, within the military chain of command the military in itself is not a very democratic institution.

[EricBerg]

One question: Why do they always make the phrase "fugitive Thanksin"? He was in New York for a meeting at the U.N. when the coup occurred. It was made clear he was not welcome to come back. For one accused of so much corruption, it took a year to come up with the charges with which they tried him in absentia. A year?! Like him or hate him, you have to admit that any civil/legal rights he had were hardly tenable. Nevertheless, the press continues to use the adjective "fugitive" before his name. Is that really fair?

So while his good friend Samak, his brother in law Somchai and his kid sister Yingluck were at the helm he was unwelcome?

Popular chap!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So we have this ex-PM. He is convicted in his country. He doesn't want to serve time, says the whole trial and conviction are a charade. Happened before and will happen again.

But who on earth gave the guy a diplomatic passport AFTER he was convicted and therefor on the run for being put in prison? And WHY hasn't that passport be revoked yet? WHY wasn't interpol asked to arrest the guy so he can serve his time and show up in court for other cases?

[Frank James]

The Army and the Navy just can't take it when someone tells the truth about them.

So, there it is. You officially endorse and support Amsterdam's statements. That might be a foolhardy action if your side doesn't win. Frankly, I continue to be amazed at many of the posts on this forum that routinely engage in what Thai law regards as criminal defamation. The people doing so, I assume, do not reside in nor plan to visit Thailand anytime soon.

Reads like a thinly veiled threat.

[cocopops]

The Army and the Navy just can't take it when someone tells the truth about them.

So, there it is. You officially endorse and support Amsterdam's statements. That might be a foolhardy action if your side doesn't win. Frankly, I continue to be amazed at many of the posts on this forum that routinely engage in what Thai law regards as criminal defamation. The people doing so, I assume, do not reside in nor plan to visit Thailand anytime soon.

Is it seriously your opinion that there exists a scenario in which a future Thai government will comb through old thaivisa threads in order to assemble a blacklist of foreigners who have posted opinions critical of them?

There is a current Thai government that has its police overseeing social media for threats to "instability". People have already been summoned and appeared before the police. Do you ever read the newspapers, here, in Thailand? Or do you just comment? If it's the latter, there are also several past discussions on the topic in this very forum. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658612-four-people-to-be-summoned-for-posting-unwanted-texts-on-social-media/

Thanks for the link.

But in this case the guy is a media figure - the political editor of Thai PBS. If he really did post misinformation that is likely to be taken seriously by large numbers of people, perhaps inciting panic and so on, then there is nothing wrong with reining him in. The imprisonment bit seems over the top, but I can think of plenty of things that, if irresponsibly posted by someone in his position, might warrant a fine.

Maybe they overreacted in that case. Difficult to tell without seeing the original post and knowing exactly who the fellow is.

But regardless, it would be my opinion that there is a pretty significant amount of slippery slope between that sort of thing and gratuitously searching through a forum like this after the fact in order to weed out inconsequential foreigners with the misfortune to be perceived as having chosen the wrong "side".

Should I assume that your answer to my question is "Yes. It is quite possible."? That you do seriously believe there is a chance a representative of the Thai government will one day comb through this thread in order to assemble a list of those unwelcome in the kingdom?

It's not a trick question. I'm interested in peoples ideas.

Edited January 11, 2014 by cocopops

[Mackie]

Army in every country is a backward force. Their structure is not democratic, is secretive, outside public scrutiny.

In countries like Thailand, where political system is not democratic and where there are large and strong authoritarian currents, army is a status quo force, holding any progress.

You call yourself Londonthai and make a statement like that? If indeed you are a London person you might have hear about the marine who just got banged up for life for topping an Al Qaeda person who was trying to kill him and his mates 5 minutes earlier. Where's the secrecy there? I think it public scrutiny that got the poor bloke a life sentence. How could you say such a thing?

Stop posting nonsense. He executed already wounded insurgent. It was all recorded on the camera of another royal marine who was wearing it on his helmet. Therefore it was a cold blooded murder and the ex-royal marine in question acknowledged that he was breaking the Geneva convention. He was sentenced to life imprisonment, which means nothing in the UK, and will be released after 10 years, or even earlier. It's nothing to do with the public scrutiny, the British Army simply applied the rule of law and followed their own rules of engagement. Anyway armies aren't democratic institutions and people who serve in the army do as they are told. The chain of command.

A person from London is not called a London person, they are called Londoners. Or a Londoner. It says a lot about the flag you're posting under. Get a life.

Incidentally, Robert Amsterdam is a lowlife who is just looking to make quick bucks while others are suffering. That is how solicitors or lawyers operate, they make the most out of other people misery. Money talks.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Mackie

[rreddin]

The colonel said this lawyer will be considered an undesirable person for the country, he said.

Since when is it the decision of an army to consider someone an undesirable person?

Yes, accuse the Thai army of interfering in the running of the country and what do they do? Assume the role of the immigration department.

Whether or not you like Mr Amsterdam, which seems to be dependent on your political views, his final paragraph is undeniable. Neither is he a fool. He has successfully drawn from the army's spokesperson the type of public response they were hoping not to have made. Bringing defamation action against him would be a PR disaster for the army and guarantees the issue will get a much wider, probably global, audience.

How the top brass must be wondering why their spokesperson did not issue a simple denial and then bury the story.

[darren84310]

"Neutrality in this instance is a non-existent opportunistic chimera created purely to divert a proper analysis of the real conditions within which the Thai Army operate.”

Well Mr Robert Amsterdam.

You should do a little research on your client (Mr Shinawatra). and you will find he has committed some rather appalling atrocities against his own people, as well as buying votes in order to seize power.

As for an "opportunistic chimera".... You are surely one yourself if ever there was one.... You just like the money and the high profile client.... You are a lawyer and would probably work with the Devil himself if the money was there..... Admit it to yourself and shut TFU.

[Prbkk]

And the problem with your argument is that Amsterday is the paid mouthpiece of a convicted fugitive from justice and therefor anything but unbiased.

He no longer represents the former PM.

Then I guess the title to the thread should be changed?

It's valid. He's still Thaksin's lawyer.

Never hurts to have a look for yourself at what some posters on here claim, no matter how assured they may sound.

Thaksin Shinawatra's Canadian lawyer Robert Amsterdam was red-faced last week after a nasty message got loose from his Twitter account.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/life/Thems-fightin-tweets-Thaksin-lawyer-sorry-for-bein-30220916.html

That link goes to a story about speculation that a singer is or isn't gay, ie, a gossip column. The pictures are of people who could be extras in the Liberace movie. While that is fine, I still don't understand why The Nation is not giving ALL the news. Foreigners reading it are getting one side of a very complex situation.

[Alwyn]

Army in every country is a backward force. Their structure is not democratic, is secretive, outside public scrutiny.

In countries like Thailand, where political system is not democratic and where there are large and strong authoritarian currents, army is a status quo force, holding any progress.

You call yourself Londonthai and make a statement like that? If indeed you are a London person you might have hear about the marine who just got banged up for life for topping an Al Qaeda person who was trying to kill him and his mates 5 minutes earlier. Where's the secrecy there? I think it public scrutiny that got the poor bloke a life sentence. How could you say such a thing?

Stop posting nonsense. He executed already wounded insurgent. It was all recorded on the camera of another royal marine who was wearing it on his helmet. Therefore it was a cold blooded murder and the ex-royal marine in question acknowledged that he was breaking the Geneva convention. He was sentenced to life imprisonment, which means nothing in the UK, and will be released after 10 years, or even earlier. It's nothing to do with the public scrutiny, the British Army simply applied the rule of law and followed their own rules of engagement. Anyway armies aren't democratic institutions and people who serve in the army do as they are told. The chain of command.

A person from London is not called a London person, they are called Londoners. Or a Londoner. It says a lot about the flag you're posting under. Get a life.

Incidentally, Robert Amsterdam is a lowlife who is just looking to make quick bucks while others are suffering. That is how solicitors or lawyers operate, they make the most out of other people misery. Money talks.

so you agree that there is no secrecy in the British army then? It's got everything to do wioth srcutiny you northern muppet! A person from Londo could be called a Somalian these days mush. I come from N London (Southgate to be exact) so quit with your bol-lox.. BTW.. I did think that any British person could fly the flag whether from London or not? Even northern moneys like you

[Valentine]

"Neutrality in this instance is a non-existent opportunistic chimera created purely to divert a proper analysis of the real conditions within which the Thai Army operate.”

Well Mr Robert Amsterdam.

You should do a little research on your client (Mr Shinawatra). and you will find he has committed some rather appalling atrocities against his own people, as well as buying votes in order to seize power.

As for an "opportunistic chimera".... You are surely one yourself if ever there was one.... You just like the money and the high profile client.... You are a lawyer and would probably work with the Devil himself if the money was there..... Admit it to yourself and shut TFU.

I am sure Amsterdam knows everything about Mr T.

[ggold]

The colonel said this lawyer will be considered an undesirable person for the country, he said.

Since when is it the decision of an army to consider someone an undesirable person?

It is considered unwanted and interfering remarks by a foreigner in relation to Thai politics, which is a no no to any Thai. He will not be allowed in to the country unless Thaksin wins!

[Fryslan boppe]

One could just as easily use the headline "Thaksin's Lawyer strongly slams Thai Army"....The R'song survivors and electoral majority would relate to that.....Regardless, it is good to have a full airing of views shared by a huge swath of the Thai electorate...R'song will take the army a generation to live down...."Soldiers on Civilians" is a terrible thing, in this case predominently female civilians.

[boomerangutang]

Whether a person loves or hates Thaksin, that person can agree that the Thai army leaves a lot to be desired in how they conduct business. Loving or hating how the army manifests is not a measure of how well Thaksin is making a mess of things in Thailand. Amsterdam is highly subjective, as you would expect from someone who is being paid handsomely by the most troublesome player on the Thai political scene. I am subjective also, but I see Thaksin from a 180 degree different angle - as a malignant problem for Thailand.

[Muhendis]

he is right the army has already refusing to follow lawful directions from the elected government

Please try to understand that the Royal Thai army belongs to the King and it most certainly does not belong to either Yingluck, Taksin or Suthep.

If the protests/demonstrations get out of hand and the police are unable to cope then it is likely that the King will ask for his army to intervene.

[zydeco]

So, there it is. You officially endorse and support Amsterdam's statements. That might be a foolhardy action if your side doesn't win. Frankly, I continue to be amazed at many of the posts on this forum that routinely engage in what Thai law regards as criminal defamation. The people doing so, I assume, do not reside in nor plan to visit Thailand anytime soon.

Is it seriously your opinion that there exists a scenario in which a future Thai government will comb through old thaivisa threads in order to assemble a blacklist of foreigners who have posted opinions critical of them?

There is a current Thai government that has its police overseeing social media for threats to "instability". People have already been summoned and appeared before the police. Do you ever read the newspapers, here, in Thailand? Or do you just comment? If it's the latter, there are also several past discussions on the topic in this very forum. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658612-four-people-to-be-summoned-for-posting-unwanted-texts-on-social-media/

Thanks for the link.

But in this case the guy is a media figure - the political editor of Thai PBS. If he really did post misinformation that is likely to be taken seriously by large numbers of people, perhaps inciting panic and so on, then there is nothing wrong with reining him in. The imprisonment bit seems over the top, but I can think of plenty of things that, if irresponsibly posted by someone in his position, might warrant a fine.

Maybe they overreacted in that case. Difficult to tell without seeing the original post and knowing exactly who the fellow is.

But regardless, it would be my opinion that there is a pretty significant amount of slippery slope between that sort of thing and gratuitously searching through a forum like this after the fact in order to weed out inconsequential foreigners with the misfortune to be perceived as having chosen the wrong "side".

Should I assume that your answer to my question is "Yes. It is quite possible."? That you do seriously believe there is a chance a representative of the Thai government will one day comb through this thread in order to assemble a list of those unwelcome in the kingdom?

It's not a trick question. I'm interested in peoples ideas.

Possible? More than possible. And it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. And whoever did it would enjoy massive support and popularity. The Thai government already has staff to comb through websites that publish political material or pornography that it considers in breach of Thai law and block them. It wouldn't take any effort at all to go through this site and cherry pick some prime offenders for a public trial.

[tezzainoz]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

Please highlight what part of Amsterdams article was factually incorrect so we can all discuss

The past starting with THE

and ending with THAILAND

[fish fingers]

The colonel said this lawyer will be considered an undesirable person for the country, he said.

Since when is it the decision of an army to consider someone an undesirable person?

because they call the shots

*gets coat*

[Prbkk]

Quoting Zydeco...

Possible? More than possible. And it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. And whoever did it would enjoy massive support and popularity. The Thai government already has staff to comb through websites that publish political material or pornography that it considers in breach of Thai law and block them. It wouldn't take any effort at all to go through this site and cherry pick some prime offenders for a public trial.

technically possible, extremely improbable...much higher priorities on both sides

Edited January 11, 2014 by Prbkk

[jayboy]

"Neutrality in this instance is a non-existent opportunistic chimera created purely to divert a proper analysis of the real conditions within which the Thai Army operate.”

Well Mr Robert Amsterdam.

You should do a little research on your client (Mr Shinawatra). and you will find he has committed some rather appalling atrocities against his own people, as well as buying votes in order to seize power.

As for an "opportunistic chimera".... You are surely one yourself if ever there was one.... You just like the money and the high profile client.... You are a lawyer and would probably work with the Devil himself if the money was there..... Admit it to yourself and shut TFU.

This is typical of the response to Robert Amsterdam's comments on the Thai army, though probably this one is less literate and more crass than most.The approach is to pile on the personal abuse, attempt to change the subject but above all not to respond to the points made.

The reason of course is that Amsterdam's comments are spot on and undeniable.

[FangFerang]

Ok. We are all worried about the situation, and we should be, but the talk seems to get more extreme daily here. It is very much like we are echoing what is going on in Thai culture, minus the violence since we are online and not on the line physically.

There is no scenario where all the Thaksin clan and their connections are uprooted and exported to Iceland (sorry Iceland, you just happen to be remote). If they revoked the citizenship of the whole motley crew, there are still the millions who supported them and are waiting. There is no scenario where Kuhn Suthep and his power brokers can claim a victory and rule the country with a "Chosen People's" council... they might rule for awhile, but it would be as unstable as Einsteinium (a 20 day cycle).

People who have had a taste of benefits from elections are addicts for life. That is the political reality of elections and lobbyists.

If Kuhn Ying-unlucky pushes an election through, and it sticks for more than a week, it is still a very temporary victory. There is a disproportion of voter's power and seats in the parliament, simply and factually. 55% should never have 99% of the power.

I am not taking sides. This is too serious to be a farang on the sidelines ridiculing either side for not being our favorite.

There is no five minute solution to this problem. Both sides have legitimate grievances. Both sides know this. My biggest expectation is to see how both sides can negotiate, I never say reconciliation because it implies that there was peace between them once, and is a grave misnomer.

Thai people deserve better than this.

In all their skin tones, from china-white to coconut shell brown, they are beautiful. This is not a physical assessment, despite the metaphor being a physical one. They are a kind and gentle people, if unprovoked, and are unique in our world.

Thai people deserve better than this.

How can both sides save face, and save their country? I am worried.

I am waiting for the outcome.

Edited January 11, 2014 by FangFerang

[fish fingers]

How can both save face, and save their country? I am waiting for the outcome.

you nailed it.

possible outcome cd be the army get seriously riled with Thaksin's mob criticizing them, lose it and steam in.

[Valentine]

How can both save face, and save their country? I am waiting for the outcome.

you nailed it.

possible outcome cd be the army get seriously riled with Thaksin's mob criticizing them, lose it and steam in.

The proverbial face dilemma. This is an extremely high stakes game & I am not sure that face will be part of this equation. These days no one seems to care about idiotic blatantly lying public statements or the rampant in your face corruption.

[Prbkk]

How can both save face, and save their country? I am waiting for the outcome.

you nailed it.

possible outcome cd be the army get seriously riled with Thaksin's mob criticizing them, lose it and steam in.

The proverbial face dilemma. This is an extremely high stakes game & I am not sure that face will be part of this equation. These days no one seems to care about idiotic blatantly lying public statements or the rampant in your face corruption.

Agree. General Prayuth is far more concerned with legacy and stability than face. He does not want to act here. Suthep is going a bridge too far. He needs to back off and talk

[boomerangutang]

I'm willing to be on the Citizens' Council, or whatever they call it. I'm not Thai, but being farang, could represent the considerable % of farang residing in Thailand. When we get over the speeches about democracy, I would like to propose some plans for cleaning up Thailand's environment. Thailand is not just about people. Thailand is about the terrain, the animals and plants - all of whom don't have a voice. Indeed, Thailand's environmental crises are so far down the priorities list (for Thai people and for politicians) they're rarely given any mention at all. Fact remains: Thailand's environment and habitat are going down the tubes a mile a minute. And Thai politicians aren't even aware of it. All they can think about is money and the power-games that garner more money.

[Mackie]

There is no five minute solution to this problem. Both sides have legitimate grievances. Both sides know this. My biggest expectation is to see how both sides can negotiate, I never say reconciliation because it implies that there was peace between them once, and is a grave misnomer.

How can both save face, and save their country? I am waiting for the outcome.

The solution is a very simple one, current government simply should take on board the Election commission suggestion and delay the election until May 2014 or later. That would be a compromise and no one would lose face. Democrats would not boycott the election and moderates who currently support Suthep would follow the suit. Suthep also would not have any other choice but to accept the outcome as he would not have sufficient numbers to continue with his protest. Finally, having the election in May 2014 or later would ensure that the amnesty bill is definitely killed off. That was the main cause the majority of Thais actually joined the protest.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Mackie

[ianf]

Ok, we are all worried about the situation, and we should be, but the talk seems to get more extreme daily here. There is no scenario where all the Thaksin clan and their connections are uprooted and exported to Iceland (sorry Iceland, you just happen to be remote). If they revoked the citizenship of the whole motley crew, there are still the millions who supported them and are waiting. There is no scenario where Kuhn Suthep and his power brokers can claim a victory and rule the country with a "Chosen People's" council, they might, but it would be as unstable as Einsteinium. Even if Suthep succeeds and makes a Council of the Chosen, this is not over. People who have had a taste of benefits from elections are addicts for life.

There is no five minute solution to this problem. Both sides have legitimate grievances. Both sides know this. My biggest expectation is to see how both sides can negotiate, I never say reconciliation because it implies that there was peace between them once, and is a grave misnomer.

How can both save face, and save their country? I am waiting for the outcome.

I find it unbelievable that people with any intelligence pay any credence whatsoever to the nasty little cretin known as Amsterdam. For a start, if he were a Human Rights lawyer of 'international repute' (sic) as Geriatrickid claims then surely his natural berth would be with Amnesty International or UNCHR. Indeed, Amnesty themselves point to Amsterdam's client as a serial human rights abuser, naming at least 18 cases in which Thaksin is implicated. Any genuine human rights lawyer would not have a client with such a dubious history. Using Robert A and the wild claims that he makes is part of Thaksin's modus operandi. Thaksin claims that he is always right and everyone else is wrong (that's where the sociopathic label comes in) and he uses Robert A to propagate his lies and deceit. The fact is that nearly all of Amsterdam's clients are either exiled, on the run, or rotting in prison. None of them are people that human rights lawyers would want to associate themselves with. An example of Amsterdam's work could be seen after the events of 2010. Although Thaksin's accolytes (Sae Dang, etc) themselves admitted to having armed men involved in the events of 2010, Robert Amsterdam released a report that rewrote history, absolving the red leaders whom initially admitted that there was an armed force operating alongside the reds in Bangkok. Sean Boonpracong was one of these and he said that they were there "to protect the red shirts". There are numerous YouTube clips to back this up and counter Amsterdam's report on the events in 2010. Fact is: Amsterdam is a skilled PR man operating under the pretext that he is an independent human rights lawyer. He is as dangerous as Thaksin himself.

Edited January 11, 2014 by ianf

[fullcave]

Love how everyone throws around the "D" word (Democracy). And none of them know the true meaning of it.

Wake up and smell the coffee mate.. "D" is bought and sold to the highest bidder......

[Prbkk]

@ianf

Chee Soon Juan? Surely a worthy client? You really do side with the lunatic rightist fringe